What is the direction of this game, will PVP always be the limiting aspect of this game?

SickDuck

No, Elder Scrolls as a franchise, is PVE. It should not be limited due to a vocal minority, and PVP related changes should be limited to PVP only.

I don't really like this poll especially the categories.

But I would like to wish for a clear separation of pve and pvp in both ways, so everyone can enjoy the bits he likes. I understand that cyrodiil war is part of pve lore too but that doesn't mean people should not be allowed to ignore it. Game mechanics like skills and sets could be more separated.

Skills should have altered tooltips in pvp areas and this battle levelling nonsense could go to bin finally. I love the denial that skills should be the same in both worlds, only you get some hp and some global tweaks for all damage, heals etc. while in cyrodiil. But yeah, skills work EXACTLY the same everywhere...

smokey13a

I would say that poll is fairly irrelevant, the real problem with this game is min-maxer/meta/cancer builds, the gap between one of those builds and one that's not is massive as a result the PVP is not balanced at all(especially when certain skill are overpowered as well) and PVE is a joke, I mean if you use a bad build in PVE everything is hard and takes a lot more skill and effort from the player but if you use a meta build everything requires no skill from the player at all and is very easy, its the same for PVP but I would guess the PVP'ers complain more because all they want is a fair fight(well as fair as it can be) instead of being killed by someone that only won because they were using a no player skill required build.

AuldWolf

Doesnt matter, this game has gone so far downhill that it is too late to fix it. i am here for my friends and the game is just background activity.

This has always baffled me.

Some MMOs and games have released numbers that continue to show that PvP players are a tiny minority. If this wasn't true, then so much more content would be designed for them. There would be open world PvP, and content focused around PvP. This doesn't happen. And every MMO based purely around PvP fails. What does this tell us? There simply aren't enough people playing one game. I've mentioned this before, but the structure of competitive play on the Internet is tribal, with groups split up into micro-communities that hate other groups. If you could even get five of these groups to work together (unlikely), you'd still not have enough people for a viable MMO.

And yet, despite this, you'll have MMOs balancing around PvP first. Even though PvP clearly isn't the focus of the game. (As I've said, if it was, why isn't this an open world PvP game with most of its content designed around PvP?) And whilst people may not like this evident truth, it's still an evident truth. And ZOS knows it just as much as I do. Otherwise this would be a PvP game. So they're not really doing it to appeal to the PvP audience, so what's happening? Our old friend mismanagement is to blame, here. The same friend that killed Battleborn's PvE, Champions Online, and so many other online games.

You see, if you have the wrong people in key positions, your game is doomed. They're going to make ill-considered, rapid fire choices which will sink your game. And that's what's happening here. They could separate PvP and PvE balancing. They could just start focusing their balancing around PvE to PvP's detriment (since the casual PvE audience is by far the biggest one they have). Sadly, the PvPers have friends in management. Management loves the PvP side of things, they also love the forced grouping, which is why those factors were pushed so much in ESO's marketing. Even though any analysis of the game would reveal that the primary players are casual PvErs.

At this point, ESO can't be saved. All we can hope for is that the next MMO just doesn't bother with PvP or high-end raiding. Basically, just don't appeal to competitive people. Create an MMO based on the tenets of the Rule of Fun instead. Just make a fun game. People will play it. And it'll be the most successful MMO that ever was.

I think greed is a big factor, really. The suits think they're appealing to more audiences, which means more money. In reality, they're doing things (PvP balancing hurting PvE) that alienates their core audience (which is massive) in order to appease a micro-community that accounts for less than one per cent of the money they're bringing in.

No one ever said corporate greed was intelligent.

So... the next game, then. I don't really have any faith that ESO will pull out of this. The management considers PvP a vital part of ESO, and one worth keeping around, even if it means balancing the game in a way that hurts their primary demographic. It's the MMO story repeating over and over, each time getting just a little bit better. This is a little bit better than GW2, which was a little bit better than Champions Online... and so on.

Maybe by 2030 we'll have an MMO based on the Rule of Fun that isn't a massive failure.

One can dream.

Waffennacht

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Khaos_Bane look at my sig

Soloed Veteran Hardmode CoA, CoH, Banished Cells etc etc so yes I could walk you through all hard mode veteran dungeons without your participation

What about your sig ? Like I said you are a true superhero. But you can do it with no gear ? You are truly epic !

I said no armor, x3 Necropotence jewelry, x2 Necropotence weapons, streak, ward, familiar.

I know the mechanics so well that I don't need to worry about damage, just heavy lighting attack all day long. I think I'm gonna make a vid of solo Fungal Grotto with no armor. No one else better do it before me.

My build is in my sig (my PvE build)

attackjet

I already quit, canceled my sub, stopped buying at the cash store, and just like trolling the forums.

Quit like a month ago

corrosivechains

Yes, PVP should be the limiting component, because everyone must fight the same way, and force rules of honor.

oh look, an anti-pvp post and poll trying to disguise itself as a thought out, objective, and original take on the subject while completely ignoring that this was originally supposed to be a pvp-centric game focused around becoming the Emperor of Tamriel and holding onto the Ruby Throne. Also ignoring the fact pretty much every change made has been made to appease exactly the type of player this poster is and reflecting how that type of player is literally never satisfied.

Never seen a post like this before.

Malamar1229

Polls are good for one thing,

dancing

Malamar1229

QUEZ420 wrote: »

Elder Scrolls is pve, alwayz has been. If u want balanced competitive pvp look elsewhere.

Surrrrveey Says,


X




Maybe Oblivion, Morowind, Skyrim. etc....but this is Elder Scrolls Online which was advertised as AvAvA. Maybe you shoud go elsewhere...

Thelon

Doesnt matter, this game has gone so far downhill that it is too late to fix it. i am here for my friends and the game is just background activity.

I like friends and movies

attackjet

I already quit, canceled my sub, stopped buying at the cash store, and just like trolling the forums.

Vaoh wrote: »

Dev wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

So, by 'we' and 'everyone' you mean the purely PvE crowd!!?

Not quite, i meant everyone but the pure pvp player

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

So should the "PvP crowd" suffer imbalances and inconsistency's due to catering to the "PvE crowd"??

Before i can really answer this, can you explain a little more?
In what ways have PVP players had to suffer?
If you mean that you have to level / get CP, that you might have to get some abilities or pieces of gear from PVE, or make build changes based on net new gear (aka not nerfs but new content): then yes, i feel those are parts of the game where everyone 'suffers'.

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Are you suggesting to the devs that your preference in gameplay is much more important than others because..... it's elder scrolls on the title!??? What about the 'online' part of the title!?

Online does not equal PVP. It means that there will be internet access required and that the game is hosted in a server environment. There are plenty of online games without PVP aspects, so i am not seeing the relation.

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Are you not aware that often changes are made because PvE players also gravitate towards particular builds and sets because they are unbalanced!?

While i cannot speak for every PVE player that does this, i can advise on my opinion. I prefer the 'unbalanced sets' as they allow me to PVP without having to respec. I do not want to spend x thousands of gold to respec when or if i want to PVP.

Its not a perfect system but until they release a PVE version of Cyrodil/IC, i will want something to offset the differences between a PVE build and a PVP build. I am even willing to bet that is the reason for the proc sets.

Quite the solution.

Dev 1: "Hey guys! Pure-PvE players are complaining they suck too much in Cyrodiil. What do we do?"

Dev 2: "Hmm.... easy. Just add in these OP proc sets and incentivize 90% of the PvP playerbase to quit."

Dev 1: "You're a genius! Sounds like a plan."

And the saddest part is this actually happened.

So true lol

Wifeaggro13

I already quit, canceled my sub, stopped buying at the cash store, and just like trolling the forums.

kuro-dono wrote: »

did someone here know that eso mainpoint was to be pvp not pve? thats how the original ideology was. pve was just sidekick to get cool sets and combos to roll and show off at war.

Lol I have been playing ESO since phase 1 beta . PvP was not even in the game Cyrodiil was not even playable. TES was always a pve environment focused on questing sand box elements. What you describe was never ever their design. They always intended to cater to both populations.

arkansas_ESO

Yes, obviously ZOS prioritizes PVP over PVE. That's why we PVPers are getting monthly balance updates, and new content such as battlegrounds and arenas, in such a timely fashion. The poor PVEers are lucky to get a new dungeon once a year.

And who could forget the 30+ new sets, added in the One Tamriel patch, that can only be received through PVP? Man, it must suck that the poor PVEers have to grind Cyrodiil endlessly so that they can wear sets like Viper in PVE.

And the poor PVEers have to keep grinding! They have to go to Cyrodiil to farm monster sets, to level Undaunted, to level Fighter's Guild and Mage's Guild, the list goes on!

Yes, ZOS obviously prioritizes PVP over PVE. That's why PVP gets all the love and attention from ZOS.

MaxwellC

@Dev
There are quite a bit of abilities changed on us DKs thanks to the PvE crowd QQing over it so I'd say the direction is quite even when it comes to PvP influencing abilities as well as PvE. Prime example would be the maelstrom daggers/axes.

One thing I think is a big issue is that the forums (a minority) has somehow taken over and become a majority when it comes to views on certain issues with the game. I feel that when we post forums and if developers feel it may need a change; They should instead post a poll on the login screen or in game like they have with the pop up for crown store additions. This game needs everyones thoughts on certain changes not the minority i.e. Forum posts.

Dev

No, Elder Scrolls as a franchise, is PVE. It should not be limited due to a vocal minority, and PVP related changes should be limited to PVP only.

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

One thing I think is a big issue is that the forums (a minority) has somehow taken over and become a majority when it comes to views on certain issues with the game. I feel that when we post forums and if developers feel it may need a change, they should instead post a poll on the login screen or when you arrive in game you can click an option. This game needs everyones thoughts on certain changes not the minority i.e. Forum posts.

I can agree with this. I am not certain on the weapon comment you made, but definitely think there should be more inclusion. The biggest issue in this game is the lack of communication with 'everyone' versus those who visit the forums. Followed only by misinformation, lack of data and lack of direction.

attackjet

I already quit, canceled my sub, stopped buying at the cash store, and just like trolling the forums.

Lol trust me no one knows this game better then me. I'm the best ever and I know everything.

Trust me I am god. And I like pvp more and its better.

Trust me.

DPG76

No, Elder Scrolls as a franchise, is PVE. It should not be limited due to a vocal minority, and PVP related changes should be limited to PVP only.

i think pvp is great but for me it's a after pve thing .
i don't like the fact that we use pve gear for pvp , but that's just me

jedtb16_ESO

No, Elder Scrolls as a franchise, is PVE. It should not be limited due to a vocal minority, and PVP related changes should be limited to PVP only.

Drdeath20 wrote: »

What we wanted in pvp
-giant battles-
-meaningful fights-
-build diversity-
-tactics-

What we got
-horse simulator 2000-
-meta-
-AP farming-
-seige-

who's we?

RebornV3x

Doesnt matter, this game has gone so far downhill that it is too late to fix it. i am here for my friends and the game is just background activity.

Hate or like pvp it's the only thing that makes TESO stand out without the pvp in this game would just be another Mmo in a already saturated industry the pve alone isn't enough to keep this game afloat it's bland and boring and lack of pve endgame only 4 trials most games have dozens. It's sad how ZOS treats and keeps making cyrodill pvp worse every patch when its the only thing that makes it stand out from every other mmo out there on the market.

Brrrofski

The thing is, PvE for the most part is easy. Even if changes to things based around PvP makes PvE too hard, they can simply tone down certain aspects of PvE so they players and environment are equally weighted again.

Valencer

This poll and all the options in it are filled with assumptions and bias. It's actually pretty cringeworthy.

Astanphaeus

Yes, PVP should be the limiting component, because everyone must fight the same way, and force rules of honor.

AuldWolf wrote: »

This has always baffled me.

Some MMOs and games have released numbers that continue to show that PvP players are a tiny minority. If this wasn't true, then so much more content would be designed for them. There would be open world PvP, and content focused around PvP. This doesn't happen. And every MMO based purely around PvP fails. What does this tell us? There simply aren't enough people playing one game. I've mentioned this before, but the structure of competitive play on the Internet is tribal, with groups split up into micro-communities that hate other groups. If you could even get five of these groups to work together (unlikely), you'd still not have enough people for a viable MMO.

And yet, despite this, you'll have MMOs balancing around PvP first. Even though PvP clearly isn't the focus of the game. (As I've said, if it was, why isn't this an open world PvP game with most of its content designed around PvP?) And whilst people may not like this evident truth, it's still an evident truth. And ZOS knows it just as much as I do. Otherwise this would be a PvP game. So they're not really doing it to appeal to the PvP audience, so what's happening? Our old friend mismanagement is to blame, here. The same friend that killed Battleborn's PvE, Champions Online, and so many other online games.

And that's what's happening here. They could separate PvP and PvE balancing. They could just start focusing their balancing around PvE to PvP's detriment (since the casual PvE audience is by far the biggest one they have).

*Edited to be less of a wall of text.

First off, Eve Online is strongly PvP focused and is 13 years old, so no, not all PvP focused games fail.

Secondly, ESO had a substantial PvP base up until the lighting patch; a patch that was largely done for the benefit of PvEers, but hugely *** PvP up.

Third, some of the changes that have occurred because of PvPers whining I'm pretty sure has made many of you PvEers happy (Hey all of you now viable stam sorcs, how you doing?)

Fourth, it should be relatively easy to balance NPCs around player capabilities after they have been balanced for PvP. And for those of you who just want to basically walk through all the content, there are these things called books and movies; perhaps you should give them a try.

And finally, if ZOS really wanted to just appease the casuals and make tons of money, they could have just made a TES themed Candy Crush. Thank god they aren't just trying to keep you happy though.

GorraShatan

Yes, PVP should be the limiting component, because everyone must fight the same way, and force rules of honor.

Unfortunately there wasn't a "bad poll is bad" answer for me to choose. Class balance is relevant to everyone, and I'd be willing to bet that PvP makes up a more significant portion of the end-game play than you think. They alright have mechanics in place to make the balance in PvE and PvP different to some extent too.

Egonieser

Yes, PVP should be the limiting component, because everyone must fight the same way, and force rules of honor.

If something is too OP for PvP, it's even more OP for PvE. Wrap your head around that one.
Nuff said.

In case it still doesn't sink in...
If a meta PvP build can be used to solo GROUP Veteran hardmode dungeons with ease, you know something needs urgently balancing.
And you know why that is? Because the builds created by PvP crowd are the top tier builds made to survive and fight encounters against multiple living, breathing opponents, which when put in a static, scripted PvE environment are abosulutely dominating, which returns us to the first paragraph of this post.

And yes, it happens oddly enough. I don't consider myself the top player by any means but I stopped looking for groups for veteran pledges (those that are not with group-gated mechanics) quite a while ago, so have many others I know because they are simply easier done solo with a broken meta build than going through the pain of looking and forming a group.

And in case people think I'm a elitist jerk - I'm usually not, but I'm sick and tired of these troll topics made by people who have absolutely no clue how the game really works and makes biased and community-dividing topics and polls.

Now truly nuff said.

Kolache

Personally I've always felt that most things that are OP in PvP are also OP in PvE, (in any MMO). I've never agreed with the concept that PvE doesn't need to be balanced. So "PvP nerfs" usually mean PvE had it coming, IMO.

I know there's some inevitable collateral damage, but I still prefer unified systems to ones that really make you have 2 entirely different characters from gear to stats to skills. I'm just stubborn that way, which is why I make my characters complete VMA wearing full impen