Hey Templar Healers...What's Up with not using your best skills?

SolarCat02 · December 2016

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

vanillexhope wrote: »

Constructive feedback is useful. I'm leveling a Templar right now. My ultimate goal is to heal, but I'm not ready for that yet. So threads like this are helpful. Thank you.

One thing I would do ( if you haven't done it yet ) is go to PvP and get War Horn and you want to morph it to Aggressive War Horn. I suggest doing this before hitting level 50. Alliance War skills are much easier to get in low level PvP, such as Black waters.

This raises an interesting question. Warhorn or Barrier? The team I generally run with in all dungeons LOVE me dropping barrier a lot of the time, especially as the tank has Warhorn.

Thoughts?

Also, as a side note, ran 4 dungeons with a group last night, on vet hard mode, whilst pokey pokey and BoL Spam. Magicka didn't go under 50%

Both - but only one per situation. One is defensive, the other offensive focused.

With good dps Warhorn generally makes the most sense, but Barrier is useful in four man dungeons with squishy dps or powerful random boss effects (i.e. Spindleclutch I, Wayrest Sewers I, and Banished Cells I final bosses, for example).

Barrier can also be used effectively in very specific Trial situations, even though it only hits 6 people. For example, Hel Ra Citadel upstairs boss, you will only have six people upstairs anyway, and some groupings benefit much more from Barrier to stay alive than they would from Warhorn.

If you know your group, the fight, and your skills, you can figure out the best tools for the job. Just like how Elemental Drain is a wasted slot if you don't personally need it and the rest of your group is stamina.

Delta1038 · December 2016

I think one of the most frustrating aspects of being a healer is that when a person comes and does complain about skills or tactics that I use or not use they fail to consider that I am not just responsible for them but I have at least 2 other people to work on too. One guy is complaining about needing shards spammed, meanwhile that sorcerer over there wants me to buff magicka, all the while no one seems to understand it is a good idea to not stand there in an AoE and take a billion points of damage. In a guild I can easily understand more coordinated setup of skills and the like, but as I don't work with guilds I will stick to the setups I feel are most effective for all party members.

lehran · December 2016

I main a templar tank and while I'm sometimes disappointed when a templar healer doesn't give me shards on occasion, I don't need it to do what I do; I figure if the healer wants to give it to me then great, and if not I'm not going to bother asking because it really doesn't matter all that much. The instant boost just means I don't need to heavy attack and such as often to get my stamina back, allowing me to contribute a bit more towards group dps. Shards would cause for a slightly faster and smoother run, but it won't make or break a fight in any case. I use blazing spear myself for pulling groups of trash, and during bosses I try to ensure that any stamina dps are topped off from my shards to free up the healer to do whatever else they want to do in their rotation.

Khaos_Bane · December 2016

paulsimonps wrote: »

You guys do realize that the OP is a Main healer right? He started the thread talking about his experience tanking for once rather doing is regular healing and noticed how seldom people helped their team with anything but their occasional overkill heal spamming.

I would say most tanks don't need shards or repentance to keep their resources going but it damn sure helps a ton, a selfish healer that thinks that tanks should be and most be 100% self sustaining with no help from the outside is a failure as support. And that is what healers are, support. A tank can go around heavy attacking all the time to keep stamina up, OR you can help them out with a shard or two and a repentance to make the run go quicker. Its just like if you had 2 magicka DPS with you and you didn't use Elemental Drain. Sure they can still do damage but they will run out of magicka and they will have to start heavy attacking and DPS will lower, OR you could help them out and use Elemental Drain. Its not that hard. Its the same principle for stamina.

@paulsimonps

Yeah it appears several in this thread don't realize my main is a healer. Being a healer is my favorite role in group content without a doubt, enjoy tanking as well. I agree with everything you have said in this thread.

For those of you that say play how you want, I am. I enjoy being a top notch healer in the game. I enjoy making the group better. I PUG a lot with my Healer and I enjoy it. I also don't kick people if they aren't the "right build" or proper CP level so resources can be an issue. As a Templar Healer geared the way I am I basically have endless mana, so spend resources that make everyone better. Also, top notch MAG DPS also want ele drain because they give up plenty of MR/CR to get that DPS.

The gear I run on my healer in PvE is SPC/Worm or SPC/IA and sometimes SPC/Kag

I am a relatively new Tank and working on managing my resources better. I have gotten a couple of tips in here, thanks for that. My Tank is a MAG DK in Bloodspawn/Tava/EBON. I have 29k health/ 22k STA/ 20k MAG self buffed. I realize it's not a perfect build but it's solid. I am still working on resource management, I realize my rotation isn't perfect and I'm overcasting some STA abilities, but it's very effective in 4 man content. Having a Templar pumping me with STA is a luxury that lets me contribute even more. I am learning and have more to do clearly.

BalticBlues · December 2016

DoccEff wrote: »

Repentance is a free heal that restores stamina too. If you don't use it as a healer you are giving away so much of your own potential and make you look worse than you may actually be.

Repentance is giving people NOTHING during most boss fights (no mobs).
And in the end, boss fights usually are the only fights that count.

You really want Templars to waste an entire slot for a useless skill?

Shards indeed are essential for supporting your Tank.
Repentance is a waste of a slot for almost all important fights.

RavenRoxie · December 2016

jphipps85b14_ESO1 wrote: »

Those people saying Healing Springs is not efficient is not using it correctly. HS is THE MOST efficient and effective heal in game, no matter what dungeon you're doing. And quit trying to make repentance a requirement, its NOT. Period. If a tank has resource issues when they're already getting shards, then that is THEIR problem, and repentance is not the fix...

Healing Springs is great, don't get me wrong, I have always used it as a healer. But, IMO Breath of Life is the best. Love Love repentance, but as I said before, I just started using it because I am stubborn, my dood kept telling me to use it and I was like cool story bro! nope! HA. But, as usual, he was right. :P

Anyway, I have successfully healed dungeons with just the springs and BOL and the circle that takes bad effects off your peeps, always forget the name of that. Repentance is NOT required to be a successful healer, but I must say it is great and FREE so yeah. Healing springs is nice for when you need to toss some heals to someone who is not right by you. But, it is also not required to be a good healer imo. If someone is using stuff that other's probably wouldn't, but you ain't dying, let them do their thing!

Merlin13KAGL · December 2016

@BalticBlues I find it's generally worth it for the bonus regen by having it slotted, even on the boss fights. (Repentance)

No resource issues for the healer = no resource issues / deaths for the group.

Shards & orbs both can be Faf most of the time (Fire and forget), a little free DPS, and the occasional bonus stun for remote NPC's. I find it irritating in the close quarters / invisible barriers that won't let orbs properly spawn though.

I'm not brave enough to not have BoL on both bars, esp. with the delays we seem to be having again lately.

Running 5 & 5 SPC and Lich, with SPC on the main bar, Lich on the offbar (one weapon swap to proc).

BalticBlues · December 2016

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

@BalticBlues I find it's generally worth it for the bonus regen by having it slotted, even on the boss fights. (Repentance).

Yes, this was the way I also played during my first year in ESO.

However, having more resources is good, but having more damage in ESO even is better.
In some situations, having more shields in light armor may also be better.
Sometimes other options also are nice...

Therefore, I dumped Repentance to get a "free purpose slot" for whatever is suited best (more damage, more protection etc.) for the dungeon or the group (more Magicka or more Stamina players?). I found that not even PUG groups require Repentance as long as you throw Stamina players enough shards

Pink_Violinz · December 2016

I personally stopped using repentance after countless players yelled at me for messing up their rotations. I really don't like people getting angry at me, so I just throw shards consistently instead.

itsfatbass · December 2016

RavenRoxie wrote: »

jphipps85b14_ESO1 wrote: »

Those people saying Healing Springs is not efficient is not using it correctly. HS is THE MOST efficient and effective heal in game, no matter what dungeon you're doing. And quit trying to make repentance a requirement, its NOT. Period. If a tank has resource issues when they're already getting shards, then that is THEIR problem, and repentance is not the fix...

Healing Springs is great, don't get me wrong, I have always used it as a healer. But, IMO Breath of Life is the best. Love Love repentance, but as I said before, I just started using it because I am stubborn, my dood kept telling me to use it and I was like cool story bro! nope! HA. But, as usual, he was right. :P

Anyway, I have successfully healed dungeons with just the springs and BOL and the circle that takes bad effects off your peeps, always forget the name of that. Repentance is NOT required to be a successful healer, but I must say it is great and FREE so yeah. Healing springs is nice for when you need to toss some heals to someone who is not right by you. But, it is also not required to be a good healer imo. If someone is using stuff that other's probably wouldn't, but you ain't dying, let them do their thing!

BoL is also great, but if you expect to do any sort of DPS as a healer, you won't using BoL solely. It is horribly magicka inefficient. Healing Springs, Ritual and Regen and you won't need to touch BoL expect for the occasional time somebody's health spikes. Use your magicka casting Wall of Fire or another Shard.

akl77 · December 2016

Repentance yes a must, shards sometimes optional. I see magicka DPS all the time, and Dk tank got the ability to regain stamina, so don't just rely on shards ok, you are a DK tank not a Templar tank that lack stamina.

Iselin · December 2016

As a healer I provide just as much or just as little as the group needs or deserves... I even slot in the costly PVP purge as needed for some fights so they won't need to stop DPSing to synergize their own purges. I've even been known t use Warhorn myself when the tank isn't doing it.

But that's for good groups that know what they're doing and can take advantage of my SPC + Warhorn + Weaknes to Elements etc.

But a pug I had today where the so-called tank decided he wanted to tank in WW form and didn't even bother grabbing aggro? They got my Leave Group skill instead.

Jeremy · December 2016

akl77 wrote: »

Repentance yes a must, shards sometimes optional. I see magicka DPS all the time, and Dk tank got the ability to regain stamina, so don't just rely on shards ok, you are a DK tank not a Templar tank that lack stamina.

If Repentance is a must why then do all of my groups do just fine without it?

No offense: but you must have some really crappy groups if repentance is a must for them.

Jeremy · December 2016

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

You guys do realize that the OP is a Main healer right? He started the thread talking about his experience tanking for once rather doing is regular healing and noticed how seldom people helped their team with anything but their occasional overkill heal spamming.

I would say most tanks don't need shards or repentance to keep their resources going but it damn sure helps a ton, a selfish healer that thinks that tanks should be and most be 100% self sustaining with no help from the outside is a failure as support. And that is what healers are, support. A tank can go around heavy attacking all the time to keep stamina up, OR you can help them out with a shard or two and a repentance to make the run go quicker. Its just like if you had 2 magicka DPS with you and you didn't use Elemental Drain. Sure they can still do damage but they will run out of magicka and they will have to start heavy attacking and DPS will lower, OR you could help them out and use Elemental Drain. Its not that hard. Its the same principle for stamina.

Yeah it appears several in this thread don't realize my main is a healer.

Then you should know better than to make threads like this. Any seasoned healer knows that at best - Repentance is a situational ability and cannot be relied on. To try and describe it as being mandatory or our best heal or ability is ridiculous.

Do me a favor - un-slot everything else you have and then add repentance and shards to your bar (leave everything else blank). Then go pug a few vet dungeons for us and come back and tell us how it went. That might help give you some much needed perspective on just how important these abilities really are.

Sogreth · December 2016

That's the problem with this game. People seem to think there is only ONE way to play a character, and the sad thing is, is that it's pretty much true.

The game seems like it gives you tons of customization, but really, if you aren't playing the way you're "supposed" to, people complain about it. Troll you. Tell you to leave groups. Act like elitist jerks. And make forum posts about it.

Delta1038 · December 2016

Sogreth wrote: »

That's the problem with this game. People seem to think there is only ONE way to play a character, and the sad thing is, is that it's pretty much true.

The game seems like it gives you tons of customization, but really, if you aren't playing the way you're "supposed" to, people complain about it. Troll you. Tell you to leave groups. Act like elitist jerks. And make forum posts about it.

I could not agree more, there are a variety of methods in which to play a build. My healer never uses repentance and only occasionally uses shards and yet I do just fine at keeping people alive and preventing us from being overwhelmed. Just like many ways to run tanks and dps, it depends on many factors. They are hardly the "best" of the skills available and ultimately it is more about the healers' ability to utilize the skills they have equipped more than the skills themselves.

Joy_Division · December 2016

olivesforge wrote: »

DoccEff wrote: »

Repentance is a free heal that restores stamina too. If you don't use it as a healer you are giving away so much of your own potential and make you look worse than you may actually be. So please. Just use it for everyone's good.

As a healer I don't need to throw a free heal. I have more than enough magica and regen to pay for a heal, becase I am minimally competent at resource managment.

paulsimonps wrote: »

Base HP regen is 309, no DPS worth their money is gonna buff that and most races don't have a buff for it either. A 20% buff to that is 309*1.2=370.8 So a buff from 154.5HPS to 185.4HPS. Its a joke. Health Recovery is the worst stat in the game.

Also for those that say hey lets go Radiant Aura instead of Repentance. Let me tell why that is a crap idea. Its called Potions. See Radiant Aura gives Major Endurance, Fortitude and Intellect, and as we all SHOULD know Major buffs don't stack with Major buffs of the same type. And everyone player uses some kind of Potions, from those that just uses the mob drop potions to those that use Weapon or Spell Power pots. Radiant Aura is a useless skill.

You forgot some math. On most of the major fights (not cleaning mobs) there are few or no adds. So even accepting your math, Radiant increases base stats 20%, and Repentance... well.. looks pretty?

So on Kena,
With Radiant: 154.5 to 185.4.
With Repentance: 154.5 to 154.5.

Also, any good healer keeping Radiant up adds that tri-stat buff for the entire fight, as opposed to Repentance occurring every... now and then. That adds up quickly. Healer needs to worry about the entire flow of the fight, start to finish, not just some guy needing to be handheld with his regen. If I can case something that means less healing later - great.

On potions, to my knowledge no mobs drop tri-stat potions, and good pots get expensive quickly. So first, Radiant saves money. But secondly, letting you healer throw Endurance, Fortitude and Intellect means you can use pots to add even more useful pots, say Expedition and Brutality.

So, major buffs possible with pots:

Radiant: 5
Repentance: 3

What I'm hearing is a bunch of tanks who think the entire group should be built around their inability to manage their own resources. That's not the DPS' or the Healer's job, it's yours.

I cannot think of a single piece of content in ESO where Radiant aura is worth slotting as a skill over 15 other options, let alone casting or competing with Repentance.

When I DPS, I have zero need for any of the buffs Radiant aura provides because health recovery is useless, I don't use my non main attribute (mag or stam), and my own potions already given me the major regen bonus from the stat I do care about. I am not going to make, let alone use, major expedition potions.

If I am tanking content that actually challenges me, I will use tri-stat potions because I need all three resources. Your radiant aura does nothing for me.

Radiant Aura is one of those skills that people use and then make posts claiming that vMA is too hard and needs a nerf, that PvP "bomb-groups" are using cheat engines, or that dungeons like Wayrest Sewers are an appropriate challenge to maxed our players. It's that bad. The reason why the so called "elitists" exist and infect these forums is because those are the people who have recognized Radiant Aura is far too limited and restrictive in its benefits, and by using other skills have strengthened their characters such that they can complete vMA without suffering a death, have PvP builds good enough such that others think they are cheating, and treat even the most difficult bosses in Wayrest as nothing more than a speed bump.

Joy_Division · December 2016

BalticBlues wrote: »

DoccEff wrote: »

Repentance is a free heal that restores stamina too. If you don't use it as a healer you are giving away so much of your own potential and make you look worse than you may actually be.

Repentance is giving people NOTHING during most boss fights (no mobs).
And in the end, boss fights usually are the only fights that count.

You really want Templars to waste an entire slot for a useless skill?

Shards indeed are essential for supporting your Tank.
Repentance is a waste of a slot for almost all important fights.

Repentance is a great skill for Trial trash pulls and in content like DSA where many adds accompany boss fights. It is also very strong in PvP.

In a single target scenario, I switch out repentance for Backlash.