Breath of Life Cost Increase

Dasovaruilos · December 2016

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

hugocbp wrote: »

You said in your post, and I quote:

Malubeth/Reactive wearing templar healbots spamming BoL are the worst kind of cancer in PvP right now IMO.

And in my second post I didn't stray from that. I admitted there are other huge problems but this is definitely up there and for me "IMO" this is the worst one to deal with. You are correct none of these templars will outheal the coordinated group that you described, but short of that ideal coordination or superior numbers a mediocre malubeth/reactive templar can outheal incoming damage.

Just for a while. And you won't suffer any damage from that guy if you are not outnumbered. I just wanted to show you, as a tanky healplar, that there are MANY ways to go around this build.

1. They are harmless by themselves. Even NPCs take a long time to kill. If you find one alone, just ignore it or hammer him until he runs out of magicka (that WILL happen).

2. If you are alone facing a group with that build, they are probably organized and took the time to have complementary roles in the group. You just shouldn't be able to kill them in this situation if you are facing that decently skilled group alone.

3.a. If you are in a group yourself facing another group with a healplar, just a little bit coordination is enough. Healplars have very little stamina. A couple of CC with a negate and they are sitting ducks to be burst down. One simple duo coordinating those can kill a healplar fast.

3.b. Also, don't focus on the tanky healer just as you wouldn't focus on tank. Even spamming BoL, a healer simply cannot keep 5, 6 people alive through all the damage that is in this game right now without running out of resources.

4. Use poisons. If a Templar has to cleanse, he can't Breath of Life.

So, along the way, all of these things are effective against this build: numbers, time, poisons, CC, negate, killing DPSs in the group first...

I just don't agree that this build is a problem when there are so many ways to counter them or make them less effective.

For me, builds that kills without giving a reaction time, damage that goes through the roof without skilled play, unkillable builds that actually do damage are much worse.

olivesforge · December 2016

It's these sorts of people my TrollBuilds are meant to enrage mightily.

Enjoy bragging to your friends about one-shotting healers? Fine! Malubeth and Reactive will make you actually have to do stuff! Omelette du fromage!

Proving your leet skills by wrecking healers in a dress?!? Oh noes! Under that dress is Mighty Chudan and Armor Master! Perish the thought that more buttons might have to be pressed!

People only gripe about healing and tanks because:

They don't know how to fight them, and
Because mashing 4 buttons in a row is somehow more leet than just mashing 2.

Healing and tanking require the same amount of knowledge and effort as stabbing things alot, but the violent Button-mashers among us don't like that. Too bad.

Blackfyre20 · December 2016

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Just as you can purge , you can get debuffed right back ? Your argument is empty because magplar aren't the only ones that can do this , the only difference is they can keep others alive.

And if you increase the cost why wouldn't it hurt small scale? As if no Templars small scale , as if no Templars are needed in small scale lol you're basically arguing that the class known for healing does the job but this issue isn't just a Templar thing at all especially with the introduction of heavy armor & over performing infinite resource stam builds right now.

Sure and you can purge again too, which is not expensive. If you're spending your time repeatedly debuffing the templar you're not doing much damage to anyone are you? When you say other classes can do this I assume you are talking about stamina? Because magicka sorcs, NBs, and DKs certainly do not have access to a heal that brings them from execute range to full health instantly. And well stamina users can do this once with rally, but they can not spam rally for huge heals, the heal has sort of a cooldown which BoL does not have. And I am no asking for a cooldown on BoL, there should just be a consequence if you are going to use it repeatedly. Vigor is strong but a hot, which can partially be countered by dots you can out-damage that heal easily unless you lose LOS. And yes the fact that templars keep others alive while doing this is part of the issue. They should be the best healers no question but healing should be more involved that mashing one button.

And well what I don't understand is how you say it would especially hurt small scale? As if it would hurt small scale more than anything else. Some templars small scale pvp and this would hurt templars so it would hurt small scale. Is that what you are saying? They also run in large groups so it would hurt large groups I guess too. I don't get why it would hurt small scale more and you haven't said anything that would lead me to believe that?

Blackfyre20 · December 2016

olivesforge wrote: »

Healing and tanking require the same amount of knowledge and effort as stabbing things alot, but the violent Button-mashers among us don't like that. Too bad.

This is only true because of proc sets. Fix proc sets (which they are next patch) and this becomes totally untrue.

CatchMeTrolling · December 2016

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Just as you can purge , you can get debuffed right back ? Your argument is empty because magplar aren't the only ones that can do this , the only difference is they can keep others alive.

And if you increase the cost why wouldn't it hurt small scale? As if no Templars small scale , as if no Templars are needed in small scale lol you're basically arguing that the class known for healing does the job but this issue isn't just a Templar thing at all especially with the introduction of heavy armor & over performing infinite resource stam builds right now.

Sure and you can purge again too, which is not expensive. If you're spending your time repeatedly debuffing the templar you're not doing much damage to anyone are you? When you say other classes can do this I assume you are talking about stamina? Because magicka sorcs, NBs, and DKs certainly do not have access to a heal that brings them from execute range to full health instantly. And well stamina users can do this once with rally, but they can not spam rally for huge heals, the heal has sort of a cooldown which BoL does not have. And I am no asking for a cooldown on BoL, there should just be a consequence if you are going to use it repeatedly. Vigor is strong but a hot, which can partially be countered by dots you can out-damage that heal easily unless you lose LOS. And yes the fact that templars keep others alive while doing this is part of the issue. They should be the best healers no question but healing should be more involved that mashing one button.

And well what I don't understand is how you say it would especially hurt small scale? As if it would hurt small scale more than anything else. Some templars small scale pvp and this would hurt templars so it would hurt small scale. Is that what you are saying? They also run in large groups so it would hurt large groups I guess too. I don't get why it would hurt small scale more and you haven't said anything that would lead me to believe that?

Pointless debate really but I'll just ask this. Which will get hurt more , 6 magplars in a 24 man group or 1 magplar with 4 other players taking on more players? You can increase the cost, take away los healing, decrease the amount of players you can heal at once but those changes hurt small scale more simply because resources don't matter as much in a large group as they do playing in small groups or solo.

And I'm curious have you ever played a light armor magplar during this meta ?

Sandman929 · December 2016

Folks are on the defensive, and the easiest way to do that is to imply that the OPs argument has no merit. BoL is crazy strong, and as a burst healing skill in the healing skill line of a class that actually has a healing skill line, it should be crazy strong.
I'd rather Reactive get a change before BoL does, but if BoL were to get the Streak treatment I would want the cost reduced initially and increased if cast again within 2 seconds. I think that would adequately punish single skill healing and reward more thoughtful healing for people who utilize healers more effectively (weaving attacks, applying buffs, purge, etc).
Still I think Reactive is the problem more than BoL.

Blackfyre20 · December 2016

@Sandman929 This is a great solution. I love the idea of decreasing the initial cost to reward a thoughtful playstyle.

@CatchMeTrolling all things equal it would hurt the small group more. If the small group has better players than the large group (who I assume is also outnumbered) then it would benefit the small group more. Keep in mind the templars the small group is fighting are dealing with the same thing so really whoever is better at the game and less reliant on single button mash healing is going to benefit from the change.

DHale · December 2016

Malubeth got nerfed hard already just wait a few seconds until the beam breaks then kill them. It should have no bearing on a killing anyone.

Dasovaruilos · December 2016

Sandman929 wrote: »

Folks are on the defensive, and the easiest way to do that is to imply that the OPs argument has no merit. BoL is crazy strong, and as a burst healing skill in the healing skill line of a class that actually has a healing skill line, it should be crazy strong.
I'd rather Reactive get a change before BoL does, but if BoL were to get the Streak treatment I would want the cost reduced initially and increased if cast again within 2 seconds. I think that would adequately punish single skill healing and reward more thoughtful healing for people who utilize healers more effectively (weaving attacks, applying buffs, purge, etc).
Still I think Reactive is the problem more than BoL.

It is not that it has no merit. It is just that this is the ONLY current effective way to be a healer in PvP, and I think that the problem is not as bad as he stated.

Reactive + Heavy Armor is the only way for a build focused on Magicka and without shields to stay alive to react a little bit before dying.

If the overall damage numbers and CC lock is addressed, then Reactive will need some adjustment.

Otherwise, considering a build that is only effective in a very specific situation the worse of PvP is a little bit of an exaggeration.

CatchMeTrolling · December 2016

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

@Sandman929 This is a great solution. I love the idea of decreasing the initial cost to reward a thoughtful playstyle.

@CatchMeTrolling all things equal it would hurt the small group more. If the small group has better players than the large group (who I assume is also outnumbered) then it would benefit the small group more. Keep in mind the templars the small group is fighting are dealing with the same thing so really whoever is better at the game and less reliant on single button mash healing is going to benefit from the change.

Can't really think of any beneficial healing change that helped small groups more besides los change and even that's debatable because large groups never needed that.

And how would a small group benefit more when resources are almost irrelevant in a large group?

They don't even have to be equal either because the game is becoming more cancer with each patch. So there's more tanky people, over performing sets, sets that do the work for you, more debuffs, ccs/roots/snares that are borderline broken etc. Just having some kind of sense in this meta gives the larger group the advantage always.

Also people have been complaining about magplars before reactive, before people start playing them more and before heavy armor. Even with all the nerfs to healing, people will always complain about it , not just about healing about anything that gives some type of defense.

Blackfyre20 · December 2016

hugocbp wrote: »

It is not that it has no merit. It is just that this is the ONLY current effective way to be a healer in PvP, and I think that the problem is not as bad as he stated.

Reactive + Heavy Armor is the only way for a build focused on Magicka and without shields to stay alive to react a little bit before dying.

If the overall damage numbers and CC lock is addressed, then Reactive will need some adjustment.

Otherwise, considering a build that is only effective in a very specific situation the worse of PvP is a little bit of an exaggeration.

Smart use of mist form, LOS, and stamina management are all ways to stay alive (I agree about HA, definitely can't wear LA without shields). Reactive is the only way for magicka builds without shields to stay alive while standing in one place being focused by >3 people. So yea I don't think that should be a thing, especially when you can do that while at the same time providing healing to your group with one button, or 2 as some sort of purge is necessary.

I would like the changes I mentioned to be implemented alongside damage changes, specifically with proc sets. And CC lock definitely needs to be fixed.

This build is effective in any and every group situation. I said it is the worst IMO because it is the most frustrating for me to play against. Heavy armor proc set users are a huge problem that need to be fixed but I have (and I know I am in the minority) less issues with these players than the templars I mentioned. If I said that this is one of many balance issues that need to be addressed would that make you feel better and allow you to seriously consider the OP?

@CatchMeTrolling also no I have not played a light armor magplar this meta. I have played a heavy armor magplar focused on damage/solo play so I am aware there are other ways to stay alive than strapping on reactive/malubeth and mashing BoL.

Koolio · December 2016

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

hugocbp wrote: »

It is not that it has no merit. It is just that this is the ONLY current effective way to be a healer in PvP, and I think that the problem is not as bad as he stated.

Reactive + Heavy Armor is the only way for a build focused on Magicka and without shields to stay alive to react a little bit before dying.

If the overall damage numbers and CC lock is addressed, then Reactive will need some adjustment.

Otherwise, considering a build that is only effective in a very specific situation the worse of PvP is a little bit of an exaggeration.

Smart use of mist form, LOS, and stamina management are all ways to stay alive (I agree about HA, definitely can't wear LA without shields). Reactive is the only way for magicka builds without shields to stay alive while standing in one place being focused by >3 people. So yea I don't think that should be a thing, especially when you can do that while at the same time providing healing to your group with one button, or 2 as some sort of purge is necessary.

I would like the changes I mentioned to be implemented alongside damage changes, specifically with proc sets. And CC lock definitely needs to be fixed.

This build is effective in any and every group situation. I said it is the worst IMO because it is the most frustrating for me to play against. Heavy armor proc set users are a huge problem that need to be fixed but I have (and I know I am in the minority) less issues with these players than the templars I mentioned. If I said that this is one of many balance issues that need to be addressed would that make you feel better and allow you to seriously consider the OP?

@CatchMeTrolling also no I have not played a light armor magplar this meta. I have played a heavy armor magplar focused on damage/solo play so I am aware there are other ways to stay alive than strapping on reactive/malubeth and mashing BoL.

What are you doing inside a Templar house?
You can't kill it so it has to be nerfed.

Blackfyre20 · December 2016

@Koolio I didn't realize I'm the only one who can't kill said templars, must L2P. Teach me please.

thankyourat · December 2016

I think you have more of a problem with heavy armor than you do with BoL as do I. Because honestly templars are no longer healers in PvP they are tanks with healing capabilities. So not only can you not kill them, they will keep their whole group alive. If healers weren't so tanky I don't think it would be as much of a problem because you could focus them first and have a chance of killing them.

Tormy · December 2016

Nerf vigor also. Give all heals the dragon blood treatment

Paraflex · December 2016

I'd support some type of cost increase. Healers wearing heavy armor should not be able to cast BOL for ever.

I don't think a cost adjustment like streak is the right way but increase the base cost significantly would do the trick. This would force Templars to use light armor if they wanna spam BOL.

Paraflex · December 2016

Higher battle spirit healing debuff would help i think to for everything

xboxone1Q · December 2016

That's what I run lol on my one guy that is a Templar with gold black rose to.

49 k health can heal for days. :0

Paraflex · December 2016

Part of the problem is heavy armor builds benefit from the constitution passive that gives back Mag and Stam for resources. I still don't know why they gave tanks two resources back...at a minimum it should be just Stam.

This would cut out a lot of Templar heavy builds because you would have to build for recovery.

Meetre · December 2016

First off, I want to say that I do not intend to offend anyone with my thoughts...so please try to not be!

You have found an effect that you are unhappy with and have proposed a solution to that effect. The issue I have is you are trying to correct the effect and not the cause of the problem. BoL and it's morphs are not the problem. Reactive armor is not the problem, Malubeth is not the problem. The problem is poor design and a lack of foresight by the devs. It seems as if there is no "edge case testing" done before the new cool idea is pushed live. It is as if they don't look to see how the players will use and abuse the tools they give us to play the game. This is the same issue that underlies almost every nerf thread I have seen in my 8 months of playing eso. It isn't that one skill is too op, or this armor set is op, it is the stacking and min/maxing we are allowed to do. The problem is us, the players, doing everything we can to get an advantage and zos not reigning that ability in to keep a semblance of balance. We can complain all we want about this skill or that armor and zos will change that skill or armor, but not the problem. The effect will change, but the problem will continue. FIX THE PROBLEM.

Akinos · December 2016

Protip from a templar: Heal debuffs will absolutely screw us over. Can't purify and BoL at the same time, and if we're spamming BoL or purify that means we aren't putting out any damage either. This whole thread sounds like one big L2P issue. All these nerf templar threads make me sick. Quit trying to get the most nerfed class nerfed even further and just get good.

Yup, I went there and said that, GET GOOD.

Strider_Roshin · December 2016

As a person that finds Magicka Templars to be overpowered; I do not believe that they need a cost increase for BoL. What makes them OP is the fact that their jabs, and RD double dip from thaumaturge, and elemental expert; and the fact that they passively have major mending.

Elara_Northwind · December 2016

Yes, of course, nerf the templars healing EVEN MORE, even though this is what makes up their entire class identity... You may as well just give all classes the same skills in this case, as all classes have skills that identify them, and healing is all that templars really have in that respect. Then, after nerfing templars into the ground and destroying them completely, enjoy dying in group content when your healer has crappy heals or you can't even find one because they all rerolled or just quit.

I honestly cannot believe people are still complaining about templars, in case you haven't noticed, the FOTM crowd have all rerolled now... In vet zones, its all stamina sorcerer, and when I was levelling my lowbie today, the number of magicka dk's was rather overwhelming. There is only so long that standing there in stupid clothes not dying can remain fun for people

omgiztim · December 2016

hugocbp wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

hugocbp wrote: »

You said in your post, and I quote:

Malubeth/Reactive wearing templar healbots spamming BoL are the worst kind of cancer in PvP right now IMO.

And in my second post I didn't stray from that. I admitted there are other huge problems but this is definitely up there and for me "IMO" this is the worst one to deal with. You are correct none of these templars will outheal the coordinated group that you described, but short of that ideal coordination or superior numbers a mediocre malubeth/reactive templar can outheal incoming damage.

Just for a while. And you won't suffer any damage from that guy if you are not outnumbered. I just wanted to show you, as a tanky healplar, that there are MANY ways to go around this build.

1. They are harmless by themselves. Even NPCs take a long time to kill. If you find one alone, just ignore it or hammer him until he runs out of magicka (that WILL happen).

2. If you are alone facing a group with that build, they are probably organized and took the time to have complementary roles in the group. You just shouldn't be able to kill them in this situation if you are facing that decently skilled group alone.

3.a. If you are in a group yourself facing another group with a healplar, just a little bit coordination is enough. Healplars have very little stamina. A couple of CC with a negate and they are sitting ducks to be burst down. One simple duo coordinating those can kill a healplar fast.

3.b. Also, don't focus on the tanky healer just as you wouldn't focus on tank. Even spamming BoL, a healer simply cannot keep 5, 6 people alive through all the damage that is in this game right now without running out of resources.

4. Use poisons. If a Templar has to cleanse, he can't Breath of Life.

So, along the way, all of these things are effective against this build: numbers, time, poisons, CC, negate, killing DPSs in the group first...

I just don't agree that this build is a problem when there are so many ways to counter them or make them less effective.

For me, builds that kills without giving a reaction time, damage that goes through the roof without skilled play, unkillable builds that actually do damage are much worse.

I completely agree. This build is not that hard to beat. A good couple players can take out a healer.

RinaldoGandolphi · December 2016

There is only one way to deal with these Malabeth Templars....Root spam with Restraining Prison and Negate...Fengrush has resorted to running a Stam Sorc tank that does nothing but spam
Roots and Negate because it's the only way to kill these guys

I have been playing Stam DK recently and I simply just avoid them..you have no chance of killing them without Negate and root spam, you can't run them out of resources in heavy armor, they take hardly any damage when CC due to Reactive + Undeatb, without Negste they just Mist form to regain Stam to block and pot..

They will simply hold block and wait for reinforcements, if you don't have a dedicated Negate or two with you, you simply can not deal with those guys before your zerged..best to just avoid them it's every bit as broken Ken as proc sets at this point..what a sad state of affairs it is right now...I don't think merging BOL will do anything, it's far more then that...gear, CP, potions, battlespirit. The problem is just so deep with the game

Elara_Northwind · December 2016

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

There is only one way to deal with these Malabeth Templars....Root spam with Restraining Prison and Negate...Fengrush has resorted to running a Stam Sorc tank that does nothing but spam
Roots and Negate because it's the only way to kill these guys

I have been playing Stam DK recently and I simply just avoid them..you have no chance of killing them without Negate and root spam, you can't run them out of resources in heavy armor, they take hardly any damage when CC due to Reactive + Undeatb, without Negste they just Mist form to regain Stam to block and pot..

They will simply hold block and wait for reinforcements, if you don't have a dedicated Negate or two with you, you simply can not deal with those guys before your zerged..best to just avoid them it's every bit as broken Ken as proc sets at this point..what a sad state of affairs it is right now...I don't think merging BOL will do anything, it's far more then that...gear, CP, potions, battlespirit. The problem is just so deep with the game

You realise they can't kill you either, right?? Not like these proctards who can 2 shot you before you know wtf is going on?? Maulbeth reactive templars are annoying when you find them, but only because they won't die, they aren't a threat, and I don't understand the fun they get from playing this way myself, but even so, when I see them, I usually boo at them and walk away, because they are no worry to me

tbh, I rarely even see them anymore, because they all got bored and moved on to the next FOTM build...

Of all of the things broken in pvp right now, templars are certainly not at the top of the list, or even close to it in fact.

Blackfyre20 · December 2016

Akinos wrote: »

Protip from a templar: Heal debuffs will absolutely screw us over. Can't purify and BoL at the same time, and if we're spamming BoL or purify that means we aren't putting out any damage either. This whole thread sounds like one big L2P issue. All these nerf templar threads make me sick. Quit trying to get the most nerfed class nerfed even further and just get good.

Yup, I went there and said that, GET GOOD.

I've played quite a lot of magplar and heal debuffs are only a problem when you are heavily outnumbered. Otherwise purging each one and continuing to BoL spam away is rather simple. Never mentioned dealing with well rounded templars who are trying to output damage also. These templars might actually benefit from a base cost decrease that doesn't hurt until you hit it 3-4 times repeatedly. So yea its a given that the cancer reactive/malubeth templar isn't gonna put out much/any damage. The most nerfed class... that doesn't even warrant any kind of reply. I wouldn't get too sick over the thread though, I'm sure you'll get to keep your one button healer easy mode so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

RinaldoGandolphi · December 2016

SadieJoan wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

There is only one way to deal with these Malabeth Templars....Root spam with Restraining Prison and Negate...Fengrush has resorted to running a Stam Sorc tank that does nothing but spam
Roots and Negate because it's the only way to kill these guys

I have been playing Stam DK recently and I simply just avoid them..you have no chance of killing them without Negate and root spam, you can't run them out of resources in heavy armor, they take hardly any damage when CC due to Reactive + Undeatb, without Negste they just Mist form to regain Stam to block and pot..

They will simply hold block and wait for reinforcements, if you don't have a dedicated Negate or two with you, you simply can not deal with those guys before your zerged..best to just avoid them it's every bit as broken Ken as proc sets at this point..what a sad state of affairs it is right now...I don't think merging BOL will do anything, it's far more then that...gear, CP, potions, battlespirit. The problem is just so deep with the game

You realise they can't kill you either, right?? Not like these proctards who can 2 shot you before you know wtf is going on?? Maulbeth reactive templars are annoying when you find them, but only because they won't die, they aren't a threat, and I don't understand the fun they get from playing this way myself, but even so, when I see them, I usually boo at them and walk away, because they are no worry to me tbh, I rarely even see them anymore, because they all got bored and moved on to the next FOTM build...

Of all of the things broken in pvp right now, templars are certainly not at the top of the list, or even close to it in fact.

When your playing 2-3 man pvp or your fighting outnumbered you can't deal with those guys...if you can't kill the healers they will keep their people alive and Zerg you

Folks don't realize these Templars have killed small group pvp far more then proc sets...in IC, Orsinium, TG before Malabeth became so popular and before Lich was available in jewels and sword and board, you an one other person could kill a 5 man group, not now if even two of them are these kind of Templars you can't win...you have to put an absurd amount of pressure on these guys to even hope to kill them without Negate and Root spam and you can't do this while 3-4 other guys are focused on you, and you can't kill their friends because you have 2 35k health Reactive Lich Malabeth Templars in heavy holding block with 35k health spamming heals and support to keep the Zerg alive that kills you.

I don't even run 2-3 man pvp really anymore it's dead not because of proc gankers, you have chances to deal with them, but these Templars are impossible to deal with in any out numbered situation without dedicated Negate and root spam.

Yes those Templar may not kill me,but his friends I can't kill because of his healing and support, most certainly will, and if I try and kill his ridiculously tanky self his friends will most certainly kill us...the only counter is Negate and root spam and root is broken. In any outnumbered situation the healer is the most important target to kill if you want any chance of winning, and you simply can't deal with these guys in any outnumbered scenario...so you either run 8 man with 1-2 dedicated root and Negate spammers or you go home...that's just terrible for game every but as much as proc set gankers...

Blackfyre20 · December 2016

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

SadieJoan wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

There is only one way to deal with these Malabeth Templars....Root spam with Restraining Prison and Negate...Fengrush has resorted to running a Stam Sorc tank that does nothing but spam
Roots and Negate because it's the only way to kill these guys

I have been playing Stam DK recently and I simply just avoid them..you have no chance of killing them without Negate and root spam, you can't run them out of resources in heavy armor, they take hardly any damage when CC due to Reactive + Undeatb, without Negste they just Mist form to regain Stam to block and pot..

They will simply hold block and wait for reinforcements, if you don't have a dedicated Negate or two with you, you simply can not deal with those guys before your zerged..best to just avoid them it's every bit as broken Ken as proc sets at this point..what a sad state of affairs it is right now...I don't think merging BOL will do anything, it's far more then that...gear, CP, potions, battlespirit. The problem is just so deep with the game

You realise they can't kill you either, right?? Not like these proctards who can 2 shot you before you know wtf is going on?? Maulbeth reactive templars are annoying when you find them, but only because they won't die, they aren't a threat, and I don't understand the fun they get from playing this way myself, but even so, when I see them, I usually boo at them and walk away, because they are no worry to me tbh, I rarely even see them anymore, because they all got bored and moved on to the next FOTM build...

Of all of the things broken in pvp right now, templars are certainly not at the top of the list, or even close to it in fact.

When your playing 2-3 man pvp or your fighting outnumbered you can't deal with those guys...if you can't kill the healers they will keep their people alive and Zerg you

Folks don't realize these Templars have killed small group pvp far more then proc sets...in IC, Orsinium, TG before Malabeth became so popular and before Lich was available in jewels and sword and board, you an one other person could kill a 5 man group, not now if even two of them are these kind of Templars you can't win...you have to put an absurd amount of pressure on these guys to even hope to kill them without Negate and Root spam and you can't do this while 3-4 other guys are focused on you, and you can't kill their friends because you have 2 35k health Reactive Lich Malabeth Templars in heavy holding block with 35k health spamming heals and support to keep the Zerg alive that kills you.

I don't even run 2-3 man pvp really anymore it's dead not because of proc gankers, you have chances to deal with them, but these Templars are impossible to deal with in any out numbered situation without dedicated Negate and root spam.

Yes those Templar may not kill me,but his friends I can't kill because of his healing and support, most certainly will, and if I try and kill his ridiculously tanky self his friends will most certainly kill us...the only counter is Negate and root spam and root is broken. In any outnumbered situation the healer is the most important target to kill if you want any chance of winning, and you simply can't deal with these guys in any outnumbered scenario...so you either run 8 man with 1-2 dedicated root and Negate spammers or you go home...that's just terrible for game every but as much as proc set gankers...

This is exactly what I am talking about

mtwiggz · December 2016

This is a terrible idea and how the wrong things get nerfed time and time again. Players looking at one aspect of the issue. Has BoL been an issue in the past? No, not really. What's changed then? Oh perhaps the ridiculous new heavy armor sets that give crazy tankiness to anyone wearing them.

BoL is not an issue. The amount of tankiness one gains from Reactive is the issue. Change Reactive and you'll see that those pesky healers aren't so hard to take down.