Kutsuu wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's an execute...
It's not the best and honestly if more ppl played a magic NB(they do and then ppl feel stamina is better) that execute is just as awesome

Actually that one is ranged and instant vs radiant being channeled

Impale can be dodged and actually has a pretty common bug right now where it just doesn't connect with anything without giving any feedback. It's also less than half the range (15m vs nearly 40 in Cyro) and doesn't benefit from Cyrodiil's increased range on 25m+ abilities.

I take it you're not taking your own advice about playing a magicka NB.

So impale is stronger against magicka-builds (bc they cannot permadodge) and radiant is stronger against stambuilds (bc they have no shields)...sounds kinda balanced to me...

I don't agree - the longer range and higher damage of radiant makes it stronger against both. Radiant absolutely MELTS shields when magicka builds try to healing ward at low life. I'm not trying to get radiant nerfed or something - this is just the reality that I see when I play. I main nightblades (I have 5, 2 mag 3 stam), but I've been having a lot of fun on my magplar alt lately.

I spam healing ward when I have low life, I survived it several times. No cleanse, just healing ward and mutagen. Also I just used RD on a shield spamming sorc earlier, he was I believe at 20% health. I wasn't able to melt his shield.

ok, so as someone who has 7 different magic templar builds (and a sorc and a couple NB's as well, but templar is by far my fav) id like to clarify a few things please that i constantly hear when these discussions pop up and many people have no clear understanding of because they don't play Templar.....

RD is NOT un-dodgeable in the fullest sense of that term. it IS still line of sight. so simply moving around a tree, rock, ruin, crest of a hill breaks it. It CAN be blocked and that significantly reduces the damage it does. Even against low health targets. I have even had instances where vamp NB's hit their skill for increasing dodge chance and then mist form and it has broken my beam.

It's NOT fire damage it is 'holy fire/beam of light' , which as misleading as the description is means it does magic damage. Thurmaturge does increase it's damage as does the item set Soulshine which has the 5pc proc for increasing the dmg of channeled abilities.

after 50% the damage scales so the less health you have the harder it hits, but that STARTS at 50% health, not hits full strength at 50% health. so as stated in posts above- it really doesn't 'Execute' players till you at 30% or less roughly. And it takes time. Unlike most other Execute abilities in other classes. (example: assassin's Blade Magblade- ranged almost as far as my RD on templar AND its an instant hit that can crit 20k easily if target is 25% or less health but the Jesus Beam still takes a few seconds to hit fully. unless you are at 10% it is NOT instant death)

I will agree that the range the skill has is really far, but on that same note- so is the range of focused aim and other ranged skills that go just as far and do 10-20k burst dmg instead of the 'Jesus Beam' DoT. If the whole beam doesn't hit you, or you block through it the chances of it killing you are pretty slim. PLUS you can heal or shield or potion pop during it sine its DoT- other executes don't give you that chance... and you can pretty much guarantee that sniper that fired a focused aim while you _were_ in range of it, before you ran away from it and around a wall - is still gonna hit you for it's full strength. But you get far enough away from that RD and the beam breaks, which means if it didn't stay on you the full time its only hitting you for a fraction of what it should.

After playing stamblade, magblade, and magsorc, i think RD is really one of the only ranged skills Templars have to lvl their playing field. the double-bubble 3-shot combo for Sorcs is almost an insta-kill and much harder to defend against imo and NB get an ENORMOUS dmg boost from stealth no matter which build you go with. I think the ever hated 'Jesus Beam' make the templar a more viable DPS build instead of sticking it in the Heal-or-Tank rut. Sorc, NB, DK all have SOME flexibility for what role they want to play on that character. Radiant Destruction/Oppression means the Templar does too.

(Additional note: NONE of my Templars run in PvP with more than 25k health. NONE are heavy armor builds or tanks, MOST have 20k health in pop, and almost ALL of them can block and heal through other templar's RD hits when below 50% health. and all to them have 9k-11k stam pools and no sword and boards so unless I'm down to 15% or get hit by more than 2 beams, I'm walking away from that encounter normally. the DoT of it REALLY gives you a fighting chance as far as executes go)

AyeshaBelladonna wrote: »

ok, so as someone who has 7 different magic templar builds (and a sorc and a couple NB's as well, but templar is by far my fav) id like to clarify a few things please that i constantly hear when these discussions pop up and many people have no clear understanding of because they don't play Templar.....

RD is NOT un-dodgeable in the fullest sense of that term. it IS still line of sight. so simply moving around a tree, rock, ruin, crest of a hill breaks it. It CAN be blocked and that significantly reduces the damage it does. Even against low health targets. I have even had instances where vamp NB's hit their skill for increasing dodge chance and then mist form and it has broken my beam.

It's NOT fire damage it is 'holy fire/beam of light' , which as misleading as the description is means it does magic damage. Thurmaturge does increase it's damage as does the item set Soulshine which has the 5pc proc for increasing the dmg of channeled abilities.

after 50% the damage scales so the less health you have the harder it hits, but that STARTS at 50% health, not hits full strength at 50% health. so as stated in posts above- it really doesn't 'Execute' players till you at 30% or less roughly. And it takes time. Unlike most other Execute abilities in other classes. (example: assassin's Blade Magblade- ranged almost as far as my RD on templar AND its an instant hit that can crit 20k easily if target is 25% or less health but the Jesus Beam still takes a few seconds to hit fully. unless you are at 10% it is NOT instant death)

I will agree that the range the skill has is really far, but on that same note- so is the range of focused aim and other ranged skills that go just as far and do 10-20k burst dmg instead of the 'Jesus Beam' DoT. If the whole beam doesn't hit you, or you block through it the chances of it killing you are pretty slim. PLUS you can heal or shield or potion pop during it sine its DoT- other executes don't give you that chance... and you can pretty much guarantee that sniper that fired a focused aim while you _were_ in range of it, before you ran away from it and around a wall - is still gonna hit you for it's full strength. But you get far enough away from that RD and the beam breaks, which means if it didn't stay on you the full time its only hitting you for a fraction of what it should.

After playing stamblade, magblade, and magsorc, i think RD is really one of the only ranged skills Templars have to lvl their playing field. the double-bubble 3-shot combo for Sorcs is almost an insta-kill and much harder to defend against imo and NB get an ENORMOUS dmg boost from stealth no matter which build you go with. I think the ever hated 'Jesus Beam' make the templar a more viable DPS build instead of sticking it in the Heal-or-Tank rut. Sorc, NB, DK all have SOME flexibility for what role they want to play on that character. Radiant Destruction/Oppression means the Templar does too.

(Additional note: NONE of my Templars run in PvP with more than 25k health. NONE are heavy armor builds or tanks, MOST have 20k health in pop, and almost ALL of them can block and heal through other templar's RD hits when below 50% health. and all to them have 9k-11k stam pools and no sword and boards so unless I'm down to 15% or get hit by more than 2 beams, I'm walking away from that encounter normally. the DoT of it REALLY gives you a fighting chance as far as executes go)

What you guys aren't getting when you get all hyper defensive like this, is that you don't need to. Classes need unique abilities for diversity. RD is a unique, and powerful skill. When put side by side with other executes it does tend to rise above the rest, but there are counters - especially against someone who knows how to block and bash. Despite it being such a strong skill, that's part of what makes templars unique, and is not a case for nerfing it. I'm sure templars would love the mobility that sorcerers and nightblades enjoy, and I'm sure they would love the tremendous CC advantage that DKs enjoy... but they get their own toolset instead.

Seriously, when you reach so hard like you did in this post you're just doing yourself a disservice - someone with time could pick this apart with all the exaggeration and fallacy. I guess what I'm saying is chill out a little.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Finally you get it...

slot the wrong skills against a given setup means you likely are at a disadvantage and may well lose unless you seriously outplay the opposition.

Slot the right skills against a given setup and gain a significant advantage and likely win unless you are seriously outplayed.

And of course you cannot have one setup that is the right one for all adversaries.

Just Like i said a few posts ago.

Why you dont seem to think that should apply to radiant or maybe to you is still baffling though

Unfortunately, YOU don't get it. You suggest slotting very specialized skills in an open environment where you have to deal with everything. Yeah, do it, see how far that gets you.
Anyway, from your worthless comment I can already see you want this game to be like Pokémon. *sigh*

Purge on your bar doesn't hurt you...others slot radiant magelight, just to counter stealth damage. Some slot purge to counter dots/channels/debuffs.
Would be pretty boring if you could counter all inc. damage with dodgeroll/shuffle....

Lord-Otto wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Finally you get it...

slot the wrong skills against a given setup means you likely are at a disadvantage and may well lose unless you seriously outplay the opposition.

Slot the right skills against a given setup and gain a significant advantage and likely win unless you are seriously outplayed.

And of course you cannot have one setup that is the right one for all adversaries.

Just Like i said a few posts ago.

Why you dont seem to think that should apply to radiant or maybe to you is still baffling though

Unfortunately, YOU don't get it. You suggest slotting very specialized skills in an open environment where you have to deal with everything. Yeah, do it, see how far that gets you.
Anyway, from your worthless comment I can already see you want this game to be like Pokémon. *sigh*

I double bar Radiant Magelight on my templar simply because of gankers. We make choices based on what where we want our strengths to be. There is no such thing as a one size fits all build in this game, you will have pros and cons, and counters in both directions.

The most positive outcome of playing a magplar in PVP/dueling for me is that I am now MUCH better at dealing with Radiant Destruction on all my characters including my templar. I try to stay in close range and block+bash when the radiant comes out. It can completely change the outcome of the fight when they eat the stun and damage from an interrupt bash.

AyeshaBelladonna wrote: »

ok, so as someone who has 7 different magic templar builds (and a sorc and a couple NB's as well, but templar is by far my fav) id like to clarify a few things please that i constantly hear when these discussions pop up and many people have no clear understanding of because they don't play Templar.....

RD is NOT un-dodgeable in the fullest sense of that term. it IS still line of sight. so simply moving around a tree, rock, ruin, crest of a hill breaks it. It CAN be blocked and that significantly reduces the damage it does. Even against low health targets. I have even had instances where vamp NB's hit their skill for increasing dodge chance and then mist form and it has broken my beam.

It's NOT fire damage it is 'holy fire/beam of light' , which as misleading as the description is means it does magic damage. Thurmaturge does increase it's damage as does the item set Soulshine which has the 5pc proc for increasing the dmg of channeled abilities.

after 50% the damage scales so the less health you have the harder it hits, but that STARTS at 50% health, not hits full strength at 50% health. so as stated in posts above- it really doesn't 'Execute' players till you at 30% or less roughly. And it takes time. Unlike most other Execute abilities in other classes. (example: assassin's Blade Magblade- ranged almost as far as my RD on templar AND its an instant hit that can crit 20k easily if target is 25% or less health but the Jesus Beam still takes a few seconds to hit fully. unless you are at 10% it is NOT instant death)

I will agree that the range the skill has is really far, but on that same note- so is the range of focused aim and other ranged skills that go just as far and do 10-20k burst dmg instead of the 'Jesus Beam' DoT. If the whole beam doesn't hit you, or you block through it the chances of it killing you are pretty slim. PLUS you can heal or shield or potion pop during it sine its DoT- other executes don't give you that chance... and you can pretty much guarantee that sniper that fired a focused aim while you _were_ in range of it, before you ran away from it and around a wall - is still gonna hit you for it's full strength. But you get far enough away from that RD and the beam breaks, which means if it didn't stay on you the full time its only hitting you for a fraction of what it should.

After playing stamblade, magblade, and magsorc, i think RD is really one of the only ranged skills Templars have to lvl their playing field. the double-bubble 3-shot combo for Sorcs is almost an insta-kill and much harder to defend against imo and NB get an ENORMOUS dmg boost from stealth no matter which build you go with. I think the ever hated 'Jesus Beam' make the templar a more viable DPS build instead of sticking it in the Heal-or-Tank rut. Sorc, NB, DK all have SOME flexibility for what role they want to play on that character. Radiant Destruction/Oppression means the Templar does too.

(Additional note: NONE of my Templars run in PvP with more than 25k health. NONE are heavy armor builds or tanks, MOST have 20k health in pop, and almost ALL of them can block and heal through other templar's RD hits when below 50% health. and all to them have 9k-11k stam pools and no sword and boards so unless I'm down to 15% or get hit by more than 2 beams, I'm walking away from that encounter normally. the DoT of it REALLY gives you a fighting chance as far as executes go)

(Slow Clap)

Lord-Otto wrote: »

There are hard counters and there are soft counters. You shouldn't be forced to use hard counters, that would make the game like Rock, Paper, Scissors or Pokémon.
And before you even think about taking breath, shields got nerfed despite Shield Breaker. Your arguments are completely invalid.

Let's say you walk into a fight with a magicka nightblade without a single AOE attack or any type of stealth reveal (potion, magelight, evil hunter, flare) on your bars, and that nightblade manhandles you because of it. Does that mean cloak is OP and needs a nerf? Seriously you purposely choose not to counter a skill, then get killed because of it and complain that it's BS you have to counter it... I don't get it.

Also, Purge has a TON of uses other than radiant. I often use it even on a stamina ganker build to get rid of Piercing Mark and other debuffs/dots that would prevent me from escaping.

And again, Purge isn't the *only* counter to radiant destruction. If you know you're fighting a Magicka templar, use your noggin - personally I stay near LOS when I fight anyway so that I can kite potatoes around while healing myself so LOS makes an easy counter. Being in melee range also makes it dangerous for them to beam you b/c all you have to do is bash.

Another more obvious counter is that against a magplar, you prioritize staying out of execute range over anything else. This means you always keep stam for CC breaks and play more defensively until your kill window opens (ultimate is up, they don't break a CC, etc). One point to be made here is that you're losing the fight if you let yourself get into execute range... so maybe the obvious conclusion is that you should stop losing if you don't want to lose.

Finally if you're in a Xv1 situation and you get low life, you're in danger from any of a whole host of executes coming at you from any direction. It reminds me of all these streamers who I see die to 10-12 people when they are alone, then blame proc sets when they should just be proud that they killed a handful before going down to a superior numbers advantage.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Finally you get it...

slot the wrong skills against a given setup means you likely are at a disadvantage and may well lose unless you seriously outplay the opposition.

Slot the right skills against a given setup and gain a significant advantage and likely win unless you are seriously outplayed.

And of course you cannot have one setup that is the right one for all adversaries.

Just Like i said a few posts ago.

Why you dont seem to think that should apply to radiant or maybe to you is still baffling though

Unfortunately, YOU don't get it. You suggest slotting very specialized skills in an open environment where you have to deal with everything. Yeah, do it, see how far that gets you.
Anyway, from your worthless comment I can already see you want this game to be like Pokémon. *sigh*

And you are suggesting not slotting anything but non-specialized skills and hoping to get things that beat you nerfed down so you can win with that vanilla.

one game design model suggests dynamic balance where anyone can be beat with the right counter set and the other suggest one generic vanilla solves all approach.

Drop the % bonus damage range from 50% to 25%. Fair fix. Whenever i duel. Magplar they only use it in that range anyhow unless they are baddies just spamming.

Keep the range, it is real good for getting group attention to Focus fire a target so the range is a utility. But the scale from 50% should go. Hits to dam hard.

Jaronking wrote: »

Cloak is so broken that any skill you use will break him out of cloak on a Templar all you have to do is jab and your find him make a better counter argument.Then comparing cloak to RD cloak breaks if you breath on a NB.

I don't think you read my post before flipping out about how OP'd you think templars are. Let's try to break it down: "Let's say you walk into a fight with a magicka nightblade without a single AOE attack or any type of stealth reveal on your bars"

Does that statement mention templars in any way? No. But it does very specifically mention that you walked into a fight without any aoe attacks or stealth reveals. It was an example with the simple point that choosing not to counter something is far different than something having no counters.

There are certainly lots of issues with cloak. I hate how badly they broke it with the "cloak no longer cancels projectiles" thing. However, that issue has no bearing on the example that I presented. Reach harder.

maxjapank wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I agree with him. It's even worse when there are multiple templars because all a Templars attacks pull you out of stealth. They'll just reveal you and then Jesus beam you again. That's why i think the only real counter to Jesus beam is LoS, it's the same way with purge. Cyrodiil is XvXvX so that means often times you will be outnumbered. Should an ability really be that strong in outnumbered situations or even should a class in general be that strong in outnumbered situations. If you get 2 or 3 heavy armor magplars on you it doesn't matter if they are good or not you are probably going to die

Again, we have a 1vX complaint, citing strictly Magicka Templars. The fact is that you are likely to die to any combination of classes when they outnumber you. Ever had 3 NBs on you? 3 Sorcs? A Temp, Sorc, and NB? If you died, you were outnumbered or outplayed.

three sorcs with simul mage wrathx3, then emp-instant cfrag for which one proced and veloc curse for the others, then both other frags... boom and bad.