Dodge should reduce damage by 50 or 75% (and nullify any additional effects e.g. stun) rather than mitigate completely

Yuke wrote: »

Delsskia wrote: »

Poisons

Macros - ZOS has already stated that a third party program which gives someone an unfair advantage is considered a cheat. If ZOS wants to keep macros in the game, then do it right. Make macros creatable from within the game UI and force them to respect internal cool downs. Quit allowing 3rd party programs from mice and keyboards to bypass game mechanics.

Software for peripheral devices from Logitech, Steelseries, Razor and the like does not ignore global cooldown. Thats a myth spread by bad players. What you describe can only by 'achieved' by 'Cheat Engine'. And thats totally the fault of Zenimax because they moved the handling of basic game mechanics from server side to client side.

Confirm.
It's exactly for this reason, there's literally no point to complain about macros like ever. Unless someone explicitly tells you that they are using a macro to kill you, you straight up can't know they are. Especially considering most of the players that are good enough to insta kill you, have the timing down to a science...

Derra wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Adenoma wrote: »

I disagree. I think that one way DPS is so high is that sustain is so infinite. I would prefer to reduce sustain and that would force DPS to lower.

Which would result in fights not ending because sustain would still be infinite (which it always has been since 1.2 introduced 5p sets and 1.3 the new regen caps).

Also do people actually remember how fast people died in the beginning of this game? Three whips and most ppl were toast.

Yeah, but at the beginning of the game people weren't max level.

RE: infinite sustain. Yes it has existed since 1.3. But players were forced to give up damage to get it. That doesn't happen now.

@Ishammael considering you´re also advocating to have softcaps back in the game.

Back then i was overcapped on magica reg. Overcapped on magica. Softcap on stamina. Softcap on Spelldmg. Softcap on stamreg.
While wearing two sustain sets.
I did not give up anything. Literally nothing. I was softcapped on one and overcapped on the other dmg stat.

In fact i am now more forced/inclined to give up dmg than i was in 1.3 to 1.5 because now i have an actual choice. I have to find a working build for my playstyle providing me with the minimum regeneration needed to get out of all sticky situations while also providing as much dmg as possible.

In the current patch for the first time in ESO i have a plenthora of vaible sets to choose from as a magica builds (i don´t say sets are perfectly balanced at the moment mind you - but finally you can make reasonable choices).
Imo the only thing that needs adressing are utility sets: Why do i get major expedition for 30s only after drinking a potion - yet there are other sets providing permanent major sorcery/prophecy etc.

I really, from the bottom of my heart, do not want to go back to the "you either use seducer/archmage/magnus or you´re build is crap" meta (because thats essentially what it was - there was no tradeoff or choice it was sustain sets as alpha and omega when making a build).

It wasn´t as much the dmg to health ratio that made people live longer back then - no it was permablock on all and every build with s&b. If you did not run s&b back then you ran the risk of dying just as fast as you´re now (and it happened).

Yes, you may have hit softcaps... but you didn't have the same absolute damage or regen.

Regardless, its impossible to compare stats now to then. Very much an apples vs oranges thing.

Agreed that there are more choices now, but at the same time there are even more non-viable choices exactly because they can't compete w/o soft caps. Look, I'm not saying soft caps are a the silver bullet but I think some similar mechanism needs to be considered. The power creep has been steadily marching with every patch.

Indeed i did not have the same absolute dmg - but i also only had 15% dmg reduction from battlespirit.

Regen was pretty much comparable to what i´m aiming for now. I had 169 magica recovery back then alongside 16% cost reduction for my magica skills (that also were much cheaper because there was no cost increase due to CP=level system implemented yet) and potions on a 30s timer.
My regen was actually better in 1.5 than it ever was after that because recovery (specifically cost reduction) was the only stat worthy to aquire because it was in no way affected by softcaps.

I hit crystal fragments from 500 to 800 noncrit dmg regularly back then and that´s about what a full dmg enchanted lich + spinner build will hit now on a medium or light armor target - 5000 to 8000 noncrit dmg (8000 noncrit is a really really really lucky hit).

What has changed is:
- crit now is a vaible stat despite impen dmg reduction (this is a slight dmg increase on properly built players with high impen but a massive increase on glasscannon builds)
- people have less hp now resulting in a different dmg to hp ratio which changes peoples perception on how hard they are getting hit

So in the end we´re now hitting about as hard (in absolute numbers with the x10 multiplier factored in) as we did in 1.5 (1.6 was a different beast) but to actually do so most builds had to sacrifice about 10k HP (1000 hp back in the old system) resulting in them dying a lot faster.

Agreed, in general, on the point about dmg to hp ratio.

However, in the current patch we have the ability to stack hp way up to 70k or higher. Hence any suggestion to restore the 1.5:1:1 hp:mana:stam stats can't be considered. Which is why I think some form of soft caps should be considered -- perhaps battle spirit should implement the caps so PvE isn't affected.

How exactly the caps should be implemented, I don't know. Here's the problem: if battle spirit were overnight removed players would be one shotting each other with spell dmg as low as 2k -- all you have to do is look at tooltips to see this.

Balance and dmg numbers are just so messed up its hard to understand exactly what to do.

EDIT: I think at the end of the day resource pools need to be decoupled from damage.

I still don´t see the problem to be perfectly honest.

People can just build for more HP if they feel the need to on dmg builds. HP is a valuable stat at the moment which is a good thing.

Like - i really don´t understand what you want to change because in my opinion this specific part of the game is one that is not flawed or broken at the moment.

What is flawed and broken is that stacking your dmg stats also get you defense. This characteristic effects certain classes more than others. Sorc is a perfect example -- that class loses nothing by going for max spell dmg and mana.

Sorc is actually a quite bad example of this (the worst you could make probably apart from dragonblood, blazing shield and igneous shield) - only stacking max resource gives you offense and defense. Whereas your main dmg stat (spelldmg) is completely useless in terms of defense.

This is the complete opposite of every other build relying on heals as their primary defense - heals compared to shields actually do behave in the way you´ve stated and get modified by offensive AND mainstat.

So the real complaint is sorcs having a different value for the HP stat than other classes do. Which is again kind of ironic because if you try to get a moderate amount of HP on a light armor build you´re loosing way more defensive potential than it would be the case on a medium or heavy armour build (this is the case bc HP directly competes with max resource whereas dmg stat only does partially - investing into health costs you main defense stat for shield builds but for heal builds only costs secondary defense stat).
Also irrelevant to discuss if the shield changes i´ve mentioned earlier would happen.

Look, you understand the point.
Maybe Sorc wasn't the best example, but your damage goes up if you stack your mana... Which also increases your shields.

On a Templar or any stam setup you can stack dmg and get more heals. The whole paradigm is completely unbalanced.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ish - If we put softcaps back in the game, would good players ever die without getting zerged down under the current mechanics?

A soft cap system would mostly cut into damage and it's hard killing players right now as it is even with proc sets. I guess at some level you'd be cutting down on the healing potential, but between heavy armor, pots, sword and shield, trivial block costs, etc. I do not think it would be all that difficult to put together a build that would be shrug off another player's attacks with soft caps.

I loved 1.5, but I wonder if it worked mostly because the theorycrafting in this game was so basic and most of us were relative baddies.

What I'm trying to get ZoS and ESO players to do is recognize that there are a cascade of systems responsible for determining balance. Past balance has been approach piecemeal.

I'm not set on any one direction. I stated a bunch of stuff at the start I know people will disagree with to spur discussion.

For example, what would PvP look like with soft caps and no battle spirit?

Ishammael wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ish - If we put softcaps back in the game, would good players ever die without getting zerged down under the current mechanics?

A soft cap system would mostly cut into damage and it's hard killing players right now as it is even with proc sets. I guess at some level you'd be cutting down on the healing potential, but between heavy armor, pots, sword and shield, trivial block costs, etc. I do not think it would be all that difficult to put together a build that would be shrug off another player's attacks with soft caps.

I loved 1.5, but I wonder if it worked mostly because the theorycrafting in this game was so basic and most of us were relative baddies.

What I'm trying to get ZoS and ESO players to do is recognize that there are a cascade of systems responsible for determining balance. Past balance has been approach piecemeal.

I'm not set on any one direction. I stated a bunch of stuff at the start I know people will disagree with to spur discussion.

For example, what would PvP look like with soft caps and no battle spirit?

It would once again be advantageous to play classes which have non softcap restricted ways of resource regeneration and use such gear.

It would probably make heavy armor even better - as heavy armor passive bypasses any softcapped regeneration.
It would make things like engine guardian, sentry set more valuable.
It would make warlock and any other set with fixed resource returns better.
It would buff DKs with ulti generation templates recovery via battleroar.
It would make channeled focus even better of a skill than it already is.

The problem is why do you want to discuss drastic changes that would require a complete reevaluation of every skill and gearset for pvp AGAIN. They already demonstrate they´re not willing to balance the current system.
Why would you want to implement a completely new system which then has to get balanced from scratch again.

Why not start a discussion on how to balance what we have (which again - isn´t as broken as people make it out to be imo).

Here's a real solution to many of the issues in PvP. Make armor sets for PvP ONLY, and PvE sets for PvE ONLY.

The sets out there on the cyrodiil vendors right now are useless. Save maybe 3-4 sets, all of them are garbage compared to the sets that came with 1T, and the 1T sets are way easier to obtain. Need impen for a small piece from a dungeon? Run with folks that will give it to you. Heck I got a Gem of Curses Ring(Rattlecage set) from a complete stranger. Just had to ask at the end of the dungeon run. But If I wanted a sharpened Elf Bane 1H weapon of some sort? I could end up spending millions in AP. There's no comparison.

The PvP sets need to be reworked into something viable for PvP "Only". All these other sets from 1T (save maybe monster helms) should not work in Cyro at all. We should also be able to get these PvP sets without a craptacular RNG risk. It should be like buying from the telvar vendor. Make a chest piece cost 100-200k ap with proper useable traits (a variety of them too, not JUST impen). it's ok. Gives us something to work for. But we need to lose the RNG bags. It's stupid, and lazy design, and there needs to be better... completely PvP centric sets.

Moving along, whoever said get rid of "stealth breaking" things like caltrops? I say get out of stealth and fight. Get rid of stealth in Cyro. Disable it. You want to gank me before I can react NB? Sorry, now you gotta build to survive and not be just a glass cannon. I know that break's "immersion" for a lot of you(said with utter sarcasm), but this is PvP. I'm not saying you can't use stealth, slip away, mist form etc. I'm saying it should only be used in PvE land. ZoS needs to figure out better escape mechanics for DK's and Temps, and make something else for NB's. Sorcs have streak, at a cost. They're ok imo.

1) Revamp roots / snares (bring diminishing returns that include various categories of disables / movement restrictions. for example, fears + roots could be together, then snares + stuns. If you get feared, you cannot be feared or rooted for 5seconds after cc breaking. If you get stunned, you cannot get stunned or snared for 5 seconds after cc breaking).
2) Fix the mounts tripping over terrains
3) Invisible abilities/ultimates during high latency
4) Health desyncs
5) Nerf Tankyness (soft caps, champion points system, sets)
6) Damage proc sets (add a global cooldown that force you to use only one damage proc set)
7) Revamp Champion System to reduce overall damage/sustain/defense
8) Reduce population caps to what 3bars actually is and open additional campaigns when needed with scrolls worth 5points instead of 1
9) Fix the targetting of casted abilities such as Dark Flare (very hard to make it cast sometimes)
10) Fix the combat bug (when in group or when casting abilities that provide major mending)
11) Fix Mist Form not providing snare or root immunity in some situations (not even talking about gap closer mini-snares)
12) Fix body sliding after cc breaking too quickly
13) Fix Gap closer stuck animation that allow you to queue multiple abilities that all release at the same time when trying to use a gap closer on someone above or bellow (commonly known as the macroslice)
14) Nerf poison damage in general (the element, not the poisons you use instead of enchants)
15) Nerf poisons that increase the magicka / stamina cost
16) Revamp the concept of light/medium/heavy/armor/spell res/physical res (light armor should give more magic damage/resistances - medium should give more physical damage, mobility and avoidance - heavy should give more physical damage/resistances)
17) Fix Clouding Swarm (invisibility)
18) Fix infinite loading screens when using transits (happens more when in groups)
19) Fix massive crashes on multiple clients at a time
20) Fix infinite loading screens when inner postern walls get back up after getting repaired up to 100%
21) Fix quick loading screens when traveling in some areas of the map (for example between Sej and Drake)
21) Nerf destro ulti (reduce damage, increase duration)
22) Nerf Incap and Dawnbreaker damage
22) Fix Soulshine set to make it work with Puncturing Sweeps
23) Bring back some sort of dynamic ultimate generation when fighting outnumbered
24) Revamp the gem scrapping system from the Crown Store crates (scrapped items should provide more than 1gem) or reduce the cost of the atro mounts
25) Fix Purge (Has Purge ever been fixed to affect more than the first 6players who join a group?)
26) Fix the combination of the destro ulti with ground targetting aoe abilities such as Blazing Spears. Blazing Spears doesn't work after casting the destro ulti. You must weapon swap twice.
27) Fix the overall dye system (colors don't match from hats to armor to shields)
28) Fix the unbreakable CCs while mounted (must dismount before cc breaking)
29) Fix Dragon Blood (make it ignore Battle Spirit)
30) Give an escape move to templars (rush to ally) and dragonknights (leap)
31) Fix the Y axis of the destro ultimate (it can reaches 2floors inside a tower or a milegate)
32) Fix Infernal Guardian monster set proc (it can goes through doors and kill npcs before the door is even destroyed in keeps)
33) Fix the Eclipse ability from npcs (sometimes the ability is casted on yourself but is invisible - also casted way too often)
34) Fix Breath of Life (often it will heal others but not yourself several times in a row)
35) Fix Mage Light major prophecy bonus overlapping (removing) Vampire Bane's 12 seconds major prophecy buff when weapon swapping in and out of the bar with Mage Light.

I'll update this list. This is just the beginning of a short brain storming.

too little too late Im perma done with eso im pretty sure of that. check out crowfall or camelot unchained.

frozywozy wrote: »

17) Fix Clouding Swarm (invisibility)

frozywozy wrote: »

21) Nerf destro ulti (reduce damage, increase duration)

I recommend between a 25% - 37.5% nerf per tick. 37.5% nerf would make it batswarm x 1.25 which would still be very desirable as a dps ultimate.

frozywozy wrote: »

22) Fix Soulshine set to make it work with Puncturing Sweep

I heard this but tested it myself and it seemed to work correctly on sweeps? It does not work on abilities with cast time though such as inevitable detonation and healing ritual.

frozywozy wrote: »

23) Bring back some sort of dynamic ultimate generation when fighting outnumbered.

Combat frenzy is a form of dynamic ultimate generation in a way - but all the tanky builds kind of ruin it haha. If such a thing were to be implemented it would need to be added very carefully. It would need to be a very very small amount of ultimate gained based on damage done and damage received and ultimate costs adjusted accordingly.

frozywozy wrote: »

25) Fix Purge (Has Purge ever been fixed to affect more than the first 6players who join a group?)

This was fixed in an incremental patch after dark brotherhood after some of us highlighted to them how urgent it was.

frozywozy wrote: »

29) Fix Dragon Blood (make it ignore Battle Spirit)

Not sure if that is the correct change or not - it would make it quite strong. Vampire drain heal functions the same as dragons blood and should also receive some TLC. Absorb magic and cleanse are both % based heals but aren't based on missing health so they are still decent.

Derra wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

7. Unblockable -- shouldn't be a thing. Dawnbreaker, Eye of the Storm, Fear, Petrify, etc. No skillful counter is horrible. Please make meteor reflectable again!

Can you please point me the direction of block counters a sorc can access?

If you dare to mention rune prison (which ironically does not break on dots - a dmg form sorcerers do not have in class access to) - i swear i´m gonna sacrifice a kitten to the dark overlord of balance himself Mr. Wrobbels.

Edit: I think block being an unskillful mechanic needs unskillful counters. If you´d have to be reactive with blocking (like with dodging) it would be a whole different story.

Didn't streak stun trough block? If you're a vamp you can also use the drain something skill. Or just spam curse, it ignores block.

Let me ask a question here the soft cap discussion. I fought someone who had a noticeable amount of mitigation, hit hard, and had over 4k stam recovery.

If I could reach that amount of recovery on my mDK I would be useless for damage or mitigation. I know that a lot of the damage comes straight from the weapon passive for penetration but how do you reach 4k stamina recovery without being gimped?

It's obviously not simply stacking armor sets with recovery, something is combining together in a way that is sending stats upward in increasing velocity. I think a lot of it is % increases which work the exact opposite of soft caps. Instead of lowering a value when it gets high it accelerates the value the higher it gets. That has got to be a big part of the sustain bloat.

Maybe the real source of sustain creep is tied into the way values are calculated and accumulated, which things are added at base value and which things are increased by % value. If we fixed the reverse soft caps, (%s) with straight values it would buff the lower end of the spectrum and clip the upper end of the spectrum which is exactly what we want.

Derra wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

Here's a real solution to many of the issues in PvP. Make armor sets for PvP ONLY, and PvE sets for PvE ONLY.

The sets out there on the cyrodiil vendors right now are useless. Save maybe 3-4 sets, all of them are garbage compared to the sets that came with 1T, and the 1T sets are way easier to obtain. Need impen for a small piece from a dungeon? Run with folks that will give it to you. Heck I got a Gem of Curses Ring(Rattlecage set) from a complete stranger. Just had to ask at the end of the dungeon run. But If I wanted a sharpened Elf Bane 1H weapon of some sort? I could end up spending millions in AP. There's no comparison.

The PvP sets need to be reworked into something viable for PvP "Only". All these other sets from 1T (save maybe monster helms) should not work in Cyro at all. We should also be able to get these PvP sets without a craptacular RNG risk. It should be like buying from the telvar vendor. Make a chest piece cost 100-200k ap with proper useable traits (a variety of them too, not JUST impen). it's ok. Gives us something to work for. But we need to lose the RNG bags. It's stupid, and lazy design, and there needs to be better... completely PvP centric sets.

Moving along, whoever said get rid of "stealth breaking" things like caltrops? I say get out of stealth and fight. Get rid of stealth in Cyro. Disable it. You want to gank me before I can react NB? Sorry, now you gotta build to survive and not be just a glass cannon. I know that break's "immersion" for a lot of you(said with utter sarcasm), but this is PvP. I'm not saying you can't use stealth, slip away, mist form etc. I'm saying it should only be used in PvE land. ZoS needs to figure out better escape mechanics for DK's and Temps, and make something else for NB's. Sorcs have streak, at a cost. They're ok imo.

please - no.

I don´t want to farm any more gear.

Just make pvp sets easier to aquire and worthwhile to use - but don´t devalue any gear ever for one specific type of content. No. Nonono.

Ok, then live with proc sets ment for PvE content to continue to kill you before you can even react. It's fine if ZoS changes the current sets, and I don't typically like carrying around more than one set either. But something has to change. The PvP and PvE sets need to only be viable in their respective areas.