What exactly makes Radiant powerful enough to where everyone hates it?

Elara_Northwind · December 2016

Actually_Goku wrote: »

SadieJoan wrote: »

Actually_Goku wrote: »

It's almost exclusively a PVP issue. You can't dodge, block or reflect it. It just needs a range nerf, IMO, to something around 20 metres.

A lot of what bother me about PVP in this game as a Mag DK, is that the range on a Magplar's execute ability, is actually 8 metres longer than our supposed gap closer (Radiant 28m to Chains 22m). On top of the fact we don't have an execute, our 'gap closer' doesn't have a stun and still bugs out 50% of the time, and our spammable DPS ability vs that of a Temp (Dark Flare v Lash) has a range of 8 metres to Dark Flare's 28, on top of the major defile, and the empower buff? This is why Magplars are god mode in open-world PVP, and Mag DK is gimped without heavy armor.

I feel like a lot of the issue with Radiant would be negated with a range nerf. The fact that their execute ability has a higher range than their gap closer says everything that needs to be said, and is the reason for the cancerous "I'll just stand back and spam radiant" playstyle, waiting for the damage to fall below 50% while the others in the group actually attack.

Dark Flare spammable in pvp? Unless you are in a huge zerg, its a struggle to get one dark flare to go off most of the time, with its long cast time... Ever since I started to play sorcerer more, I have realised that templar is actually not even that strong in comparison... Though I do agree that magicka DK needs a buff, as does magicka nb

You can't have spent too much time in Cyrodiil if you don't think Dark Flare is a spammable

It isn't spammable, unless you are with a massive zerg. I don't play with zergs in pvp, I play in a small group or alone and in that situation, it is impossible to spam dark flare.

Sugaroverdose · December 2016

SadieJoan wrote: »

It isn't spammable, unless you are with a massive zerg. I don't play with zergs in pvp, I play in a small group or alone and in that situation, it is impossible to spam dark flare.

It's spammable when you're not under pressure, every skill is spammable in such situation

THEDKEXPERIENCE · December 2016

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

SadieJoan wrote: »

It isn't spammable, unless you are with a massive zerg. I don't play with zergs in pvp, I play in a small group or alone and in that situation, it is impossible to spam dark flare.

It's spammable when you're not under pressure, every skill is spammable in such situation

Spammable? Sure.

Effective? Not even remotely.

It's probably the easiest skill to dodge in the game and only effective if you're in a large group or stealth. If someone knows it's coming and it actually connects they messed up.

Elara_Northwind · December 2016

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

SadieJoan wrote: »

It isn't spammable, unless you are with a massive zerg. I don't play with zergs in pvp, I play in a small group or alone and in that situation, it is impossible to spam dark flare.

It's spammable when you're not under pressure, every skill is spammable in such situation

Well, it is far harder to spam a skill that has a 1.1 second cast time than it is an instant one, and I rarely manage to be able to spam it as it would put me at huge risk and most likely get me killed if I were to just stand there spamming dark flare

And even if some people do choose to spam it, it is fine, as is RD which works much differently than many people seem to think it does

Sugaroverdose · December 2016

SadieJoan wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

SadieJoan wrote: »

It isn't spammable, unless you are with a massive zerg. I don't play with zergs in pvp, I play in a small group or alone and in that situation, it is impossible to spam dark flare.

It's spammable when you're not under pressure, every skill is spammable in such situation

Well, it is far harder to spam a skill that has a 1.1 second cast time than it is an instant one, and I rarely manage to be able to spam it as it would put me at huge risk and most likely get me killed if I were to just stand there spamming dark flare And even if some people do choose to spam it, it is fine, as is RD which works much differently than many people seem to think it does

Same thing you can say about snipe, but people spam it somehow, dark flare in spam mode even more effective cause of self-empower.

RD works as it looks like - channeling attack(as every other channeling it should stay undodgable) with instant first tick(which should stay from my PoV cause execute with 1s delay will not work, and zergspamers will still spam it), so the only thing which logically can be nerfed to bring it to the line with other executes is distance and maybe reduction of execute range to something like 35% (it's is hard to calculate cause you can't add LA+Ulti with RD like other classes who have instant cast executes)

ZOS_PeterT · December 2016

We have recently removed some posts from this thread.

This was done because the comments did not add anything constructive to the topic.

Please strive to keep all posts on topic and relevant to the conversation.

Joy_Division · December 2016

Because many people believe it should be possible to roll dodge with their HoTs active and not have to worry about any incoming damage from single target skills.

Lord-Otto · December 2016

Jaronking wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

I get qhy you're concerned with overnerfing RD. I don't want it to do less damage, just give a bit counter-play. Other executes can be dodged or start scaling later. My Endless Fury, for example, has the same reach but can be didged and is so weak it doesn't kill some guards in Cyrodiil when it goes off.

End less fury can no longer be dodge and curse can no longer be blocked.Its pretty strong not as strong as RD but I been hit with almost 8k hits from endless.

Alright, overlooked that! Knew about Curse, missed Fury and Streak, though.
Thank you for clarifying and not posting a lame meme, buddy!

waterfairy · December 2016

I got nuked for 35k damage and rolling behind a rock did nothing to stop it. The templar I was fighting was practically immortal with their heals so to have so much damage and defense for 1 person is ridiculous.

Jaronking · December 2016

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

I get qhy you're concerned with overnerfing RD. I don't want it to do less damage, just give a bit counter-play. Other executes can be dodged or start scaling later. My Endless Fury, for example, has the same reach but can be didged and is so weak it doesn't kill some guards in Cyrodiil when it goes off.

End less fury can no longer be dodge and curse can no longer be blocked.Its pretty strong not as strong as RD but I been hit with almost 8k hits from endless.

Alright, overlooked that! Knew about Curse, missed Fury and Streak, though.
Thank you for clarifying and not posting a lame meme, buddy!

NP its a easy over site not many people mentioned it.

ArchMikem · December 2016

Vigarr wrote: »

I got nuked for 35k damage and rolling behind a rock did nothing to stop it. The templar I was fighting was practically immortal with their heals so to have so much damage and defense for 1 person is ridiculous.

There are builds like that but not everyone is. My Templar is still as squishy as a sweetroll. Wish I wasn't but the way I have my character now I'm pretty much stuck this way since I have no wish to overhaul it. It would be insightful to see just how these builds are laid out though to get those kinds of results.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · December 2016

Vigarr wrote: »

I got nuked for 35k damage and rolling behind a rock did nothing to stop it. The templar I was fighting was practically immortal with their heals so to have so much damage and defense for 1 person is ridiculous.

I can see why that would be frustrating. Fighting a Templar all alone not able to kill them because they heal. Yet getting burst down in 3 seconds while you were at somewhere near 35k health. And then to be killed by a bug, that really sucks.

Destruent · December 2016

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

I got nuked for 35k damage and rolling behind a rock did nothing to stop it. The templar I was fighting was practically immortal with their heals so to have so much damage and defense for 1 person is ridiculous.

I can see why that would be frustrating. Fighting a Templar all alone not able to kill them because they heal. Yet getting burst down in 3 seconds while you were at somewhere near 35k health. And then to be killed by a bug, that really sucks.

Every class can be build for immortallity against some builds/players....

mdylan2013 · December 2016

A good player never dies to a radiant spammer.

Doctordarkspawn · December 2016

Jaronking wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's an execute...
It's not the best and honestly if more ppl played a magic NB(they do and then ppl feel stamina is better) that execute is just as awesome

Actually that one is ranged and instant vs radiant being channeled

Impale can be dodged and actually has a pretty common bug right now where it just doesn't connect with anything without giving any feedback. It's also less than half the range (15m vs nearly 40 in Cyro) and doesn't benefit from Cyrodiil's increased range on 25m+ abilities.

I take it you're not taking your own advice about playing a magicka NB.

So impale is stronger against magicka-builds (bc they cannot permadodge) and radiant is stronger against stambuilds (bc they have no shields)...sounds kinda balanced to me...

I agree it's fine too
I think the whole issue with these types of discussions is that the game doesn't seperate PvE from PvP in the effects of skills and passives

It is what it is tho
It's not like all Templars are going around one or two shoting people

Oddly enough with all the complaints NB's do go around one and two shoting ppl

Funny that's it's a balance issue but Templars have no speed boost, no stealth to increase crits and have to get you down to 25% whereas a NB can get you to 25% before you know they're on you

IMO the biggest problem with these discussions with relation to PVP is that people think balance is everyone having the SAME THING. Just b/c one class gets a stronger execute, doesn't mean it's OP or that it needs a nerf. That other class is going to have a significant advantage in another category.

Just like you're saying, NBs have their own advantages that make up for not having the same execute that templars have.

@Kutsuu
Let me be fair I really don't PvP. I go in for PvE stuff
BUT

(Not saying you are)There's a huge difference in a NB complaining about a Templar especially in PvP when a NB with basic gear and just max skills can jump on a Templar and take us from 100% to less than 50% consistently.

The skilled folks knock Templars down to 50% in one shot and then stun or knock us down, so in 3-4 hits you go from being out of combat to dead.

NB group says that Templars are OP who use radiant but there's not one video of a Templar surprise attacking a NB....knocking them to 50% or less in one or two shots and then using the execute and it kills them

That doesn't happen so I can't agree that each has their own benefits
I also do not consider balance as equal opportunities.

I'm also not crying saying NB need a nerf.
I do cry about healing nerf tho but yeah.....NB has the upper hand over any Templar unless they aren't in stealth. Then the fight changes but the NB can go in stealth during a fight....so then it's back to their advantage

You don't PVP so am just going help you out and correct you.If you know what you doing and wearing Impenetrable no NB in basic gear and max skill won't knock you down to 50%.Unless you just ran from keep keep on foot that's the only way their going to one shot you.

Only way a *skilled*NB is going to 3-4 shot you on a magplar is with proc sets and that's proc sets that broken.Not to mentioned that will only work if your out of stam to break free.If your out of stam that's no one fault but your own.

Your next statement clearly show you don't know what your talking about their multiple videos of people from stealth 1-2 shooting players.Its Dark flare from stealth Javelin than RD your dead.Its the basic combo and it will kill just about anything from NB to DK to magsorc.

Only advantage a NB has over a Templar is stealth and incap.Dark cloak is extremely broken right now and your spammable will bring a NB out of cloak so stealth is gone in a NB.Magplar and templars in general has better healing a better execute decent magic sustained. Magplar has way more advantages than any NB.

Like you said you don't PVP so your opinion on the subject should be ignored.

@Jaronking

Woah there....let's not jump to conclusions just because you "think" or have assumed something About another player especially on the forums.
Just because I don't PvP much doesn't mean I don't PvP.

Let's understand I've been playing since early 2013 on two platforms
Let's also understand that I don't need help understanding how the skills and effects work as well as what's broken or working different than it may read or what is assumed

It's straight forward....
Regardless of how I'm using the term or how your using the term "skilled" it's always an assumption because no one can inspect others.
The reality is this....a NB does have the upper hand over a Templar in PvP so what many are experiencing is logic based positioning so that they can remove as many NB advantages as possible to better position themselves to win

The reality also is that there isn't an absolute that only certain "skilled" players can do this or that.
Anyone whose played this game for three years has had the experience of killing and being killed. Also getting revenge and who can read should be able to make adjustments to their opposition

The point I'm making is....don't jump on me making assumptions just because my play style isn't focused on PvP builds or playing PvP more than PvE. Because we are forced to complete PvE achievements in PvP campaigns...after three years I've had more than my experiences in PvP and like anyone else, we have to adapt regardless of preference

What's really irritating about how you've made your comment towards me is this.....
Your whole idea is that because someone plays PvE they don't know what they're talking about. It suggests that you've decided that you're the expect and that their comments should be ignored (you literally wrote that)

Last I checked we all have the same gear, skills, effects and champion points so here's a point of view.
If you are dying to a Templar and you're a NB maybe.....you've got some things you could learn cause when I'm out there many NB's aren't struggling to kill me and 2 or three others.

Consider I'm not even changing my skills for a PvP interaction and can kill others but if it's a NB, them understanding who and when to attack is their advantage and Templars do not measure up to surprise attacks compared to a NB

Also if you get into execute range with anyone, regardless of the skill....you're at the disadvantage so if you die ...that's how the game is designed

But just chill out on jumping all over people they way you did cause in your comments there are things you're writing that are not absolutes. In what I wrote that you quoted, the NB parts are absolutes for my perspective which is what I clarified in my comments.

You can't assume everyone is playing in these certain meta builds and therefore your comments as a PvP gory is what's going on cause that's not correct. Also if you're really into PvP, you have to gain a full understanding of PvE builds too because if you're facing groups...especially of Templars and they have some PvP and PvE mixes in there....you're approach won't work as you have wrote it out.

I didn't assume anything you said yourself I don't PVP.That's no assumption its what you said.Its not a assumption its a fact when you said it.

Honestly from what it seems you don't understand how abilities work because they work differently in PvP and their abilities that are useful in pve that would get you killed using in PVP.

As I pointed out the reality of how it is in PVP is that Nb don't have that many advantages in PVP I told in my last post the only 2 advantages we have and one of them is broken.On a stamblade all we have is Incap since you can purge major facture from SA and if you running heavy it won't do much damage as most Magplar use now.Templars have a in class purge,Major mending,a burst heal,A spammable that goes through dodge roll ,A execute that starts at 50% and doesn't break on LOS always and have a very long range.Templars have way more advantage then a magic or stamblade has.Those are facts when it comes.to PVP. Only time a NB has any kind of advantage is when they ganking and even then it can be countered.

Am not saying people who only PVE don't know what their talking about but when it comes to balancing abilities they don't.For example most PVErs counter argument to nerfing broken proc sets is "don't Nerf them because they loom cool".Yea when that's one of.your arguments I tend not to listen to them.when it comes to balancing.Yes your comment should be ignored when we are talking about PVP balancing because majority of the team Pvers like yourself argue against adjustments just because it would help.improve PVP.

Answer this @NewBlacksmurf what hard mode trial's have you completed? If any at all?Have you done VMA?

Hey am sure I could 1VX you and you friends easy I do it multiple times a day.Ask @danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO I have 1vX and 2VX members of his old guild.Hey if you get your health to 30% and someone hit you with RD your Dead 8/10.So when your getting XV1 that group get you low health you try to heal back up you can't because of RD your dead.On a Templar all I have to do is stand in the back throw a BOL and when he get below 45% just Spam RD and that player dead.

Like I said with all your advantages Magplar have against a Stamblade if you can't kill.one which just so happen is the squishest class in the game that's because your not a good player.Break free BOL back to full health.Like I said if you can't kill a NB that's because you not a good PVP.

Actually RD and mages wrath are one of the only 2 Execute that pretty much give a guarantee kill.

No what you put in your comments where not absolute they were you opinions of how things work not.how they actually work.What I wrote is what actually would occur in PVP on a daily basis.

Well I have done every hard mode PVE trial but VMOL on my stam sorc and Magblade same on my magplar soon I know PVE builds pretty well am not sure we can say the same about you.9 times out of 10 my approach works because I actually know what am doing and how PVP works and not just sayings things to have a argument.

As allways, any arguement over game mechanics devolves into a shouting match about whether you have enough achievement cred to be taken seriously.

Personally I think jesus beam is meh. I think it'd be much better removed and replaced with something that gives templars some active resource management as that's the one place their hurting compared to the other classes. People like to tout templars as 'op' but the fact is they have very few things going for them, they just have a good kit that's fairly flexable. But they -suck- in the resource management department, most of their abilities are high cost.

Elusiin · December 2016

Draxys wrote: »

It's not necessarily the strength that makes it an issue, it's the design that doesn't make sense. A ranged, undodgeable execute that scales up starting at 50% of the target's health is stupid. Really, any execute that starts "executing" at that high it's percentage is dumb, but oh well /shrug

They should nerf the execute threshold.... At least down to 35%, 50% is rediculous.... -_-

Kutsuu · December 2016

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's an execute...
It's not the best and honestly if more ppl played a magic NB(they do and then ppl feel stamina is better) that execute is just as awesome

Actually that one is ranged and instant vs radiant being channeled

Impale can be dodged and actually has a pretty common bug right now where it just doesn't connect with anything without giving any feedback. It's also less than half the range (15m vs nearly 40 in Cyro) and doesn't benefit from Cyrodiil's increased range on 25m+ abilities.

I take it you're not taking your own advice about playing a magicka NB.

So impale is stronger against magicka-builds (bc they cannot permadodge) and radiant is stronger against stambuilds (bc they have no shields)...sounds kinda balanced to me...

I agree it's fine too
I think the whole issue with these types of discussions is that the game doesn't seperate PvE from PvP in the effects of skills and passives

It is what it is tho
It's not like all Templars are going around one or two shoting people

Oddly enough with all the complaints NB's do go around one and two shoting ppl

Funny that's it's a balance issue but Templars have no speed boost, no stealth to increase crits and have to get you down to 25% whereas a NB can get you to 25% before you know they're on you

IMO the biggest problem with these discussions with relation to PVP is that people think balance is everyone having the SAME THING. Just b/c one class gets a stronger execute, doesn't mean it's OP or that it needs a nerf. That other class is going to have a significant advantage in another category.

Just like you're saying, NBs have their own advantages that make up for not having the same execute that templars have.

@Kutsuu
Let me be fair I really don't PvP. I go in for PvE stuff
BUT

(Not saying you are)There's a huge difference in a NB complaining about a Templar especially in PvP when a NB with basic gear and just max skills can jump on a Templar and take us from 100% to less than 50% consistently.

The skilled folks knock Templars down to 50% in one shot and then stun or knock us down, so in 3-4 hits you go from being out of combat to dead.

NB group says that Templars are OP who use radiant but there's not one video of a Templar surprise attacking a NB....knocking them to 50% or less in one or two shots and then using the execute and it kills them

That doesn't happen so I can't agree that each has their own benefits
I also do not consider balance as equal opportunities.

I'm also not crying saying NB need a nerf.
I do cry about healing nerf tho but yeah.....NB has the upper hand over any Templar unless they aren't in stealth. Then the fight changes but the NB can go in stealth during a fight....so then it's back to their advantage

You don't PVP so am just going help you out and correct you.If you know what you doing and wearing Impenetrable no NB in basic gear and max skill won't knock you down to 50%.Unless you just ran from keep keep on foot that's the only way their going to one shot you.

Only way a *skilled*NB is going to 3-4 shot you on a magplar is with proc sets and that's proc sets that broken.Not to mentioned that will only work if your out of stam to break free.If your out of stam that's no one fault but your own.

Your next statement clearly show you don't know what your talking about their multiple videos of people from stealth 1-2 shooting players.Its Dark flare from stealth Javelin than RD your dead.Its the basic combo and it will kill just about anything from NB to DK to magsorc.

Only advantage a NB has over a Templar is stealth and incap.Dark cloak is extremely broken right now and your spammable will bring a NB out of cloak so stealth is gone in a NB.Magplar and templars in general has better healing a better execute decent magic sustained. Magplar has way more advantages than any NB.

Like you said you don't PVP so your opinion on the subject should be ignored.

@Jaronking

Woah there....let's not jump to conclusions just because you "think" or have assumed something About another player especially on the forums.
Just because I don't PvP much doesn't mean I don't PvP.

Let's understand I've been playing since early 2013 on two platforms
Let's also understand that I don't need help understanding how the skills and effects work as well as what's broken or working different than it may read or what is assumed

It's straight forward....
Regardless of how I'm using the term or how your using the term "skilled" it's always an assumption because no one can inspect others.
The reality is this....a NB does have the upper hand over a Templar in PvP so what many are experiencing is logic based positioning so that they can remove as many NB advantages as possible to better position themselves to win

The reality also is that there isn't an absolute that only certain "skilled" players can do this or that.
Anyone whose played this game for three years has had the experience of killing and being killed. Also getting revenge and who can read should be able to make adjustments to their opposition

The point I'm making is....don't jump on me making assumptions just because my play style isn't focused on PvP builds or playing PvP more than PvE. Because we are forced to complete PvE achievements in PvP campaigns...after three years I've had more than my experiences in PvP and like anyone else, we have to adapt regardless of preference

What's really irritating about how you've made your comment towards me is this.....
Your whole idea is that because someone plays PvE they don't know what they're talking about. It suggests that you've decided that you're the expect and that their comments should be ignored (you literally wrote that)

Last I checked we all have the same gear, skills, effects and champion points so here's a point of view.
If you are dying to a Templar and you're a NB maybe.....you've got some things you could learn cause when I'm out there many NB's aren't struggling to kill me and 2 or three others.

Consider I'm not even changing my skills for a PvP interaction and can kill others but if it's a NB, them understanding who and when to attack is their advantage and Templars do not measure up to surprise attacks compared to a NB

Also if you get into execute range with anyone, regardless of the skill....you're at the disadvantage so if you die ...that's how the game is designed

But just chill out on jumping all over people they way you did cause in your comments there are things you're writing that are not absolutes. In what I wrote that you quoted, the NB parts are absolutes for my perspective which is what I clarified in my comments.

You can't assume everyone is playing in these certain meta builds and therefore your comments as a PvP gory is what's going on cause that's not correct. Also if you're really into PvP, you have to gain a full understanding of PvE builds too because if you're facing groups...especially of Templars and they have some PvP and PvE mixes in there....you're approach won't work as you have wrote it out.

I didn't assume anything you said yourself I don't PVP.That's no assumption its what you said.Its not a assumption its a fact when you said it.

Honestly from what it seems you don't understand how abilities work because they work differently in PvP and their abilities that are useful in pve that would get you killed using in PVP.

As I pointed out the reality of how it is in PVP is that Nb don't have that many advantages in PVP I told in my last post the only 2 advantages we have and one of them is broken.On a stamblade all we have is Incap since you can purge major facture from SA and if you running heavy it won't do much damage as most Magplar use now.Templars have a in class purge,Major mending,a burst heal,A spammable that goes through dodge roll ,A execute that starts at 50% and doesn't break on LOS always and have a very long range.Templars have way more advantage then a magic or stamblade has.Those are facts when it comes.to PVP. Only time a NB has any kind of advantage is when they ganking and even then it can be countered.

Am not saying people who only PVE don't know what their talking about but when it comes to balancing abilities they don't.For example most PVErs counter argument to nerfing broken proc sets is "don't Nerf them because they loom cool".Yea when that's one of.your arguments I tend not to listen to them.when it comes to balancing.Yes your comment should be ignored when we are talking about PVP balancing because majority of the team Pvers like yourself argue against adjustments just because it would help.improve PVP.

Answer this @NewBlacksmurf what hard mode trial's have you completed? If any at all?Have you done VMA?

Hey am sure I could 1VX you and you friends easy I do it multiple times a day.Ask @danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO I have 1vX and 2VX members of his old guild.Hey if you get your health to 30% and someone hit you with RD your Dead 8/10.So when your getting XV1 that group get you low health you try to heal back up you can't because of RD your dead.On a Templar all I have to do is stand in the back throw a BOL and when he get below 45% just Spam RD and that player dead.

Like I said with all your advantages Magplar have against a Stamblade if you can't kill.one which just so happen is the squishest class in the game that's because your not a good player.Break free BOL back to full health.Like I said if you can't kill a NB that's because you not a good PVP.

Actually RD and mages wrath are one of the only 2 Execute that pretty much give a guarantee kill.

No what you put in your comments where not absolute they were you opinions of how things work not.how they actually work.What I wrote is what actually would occur in PVP on a daily basis.

Well I have done every hard mode PVE trial but VMOL on my stam sorc and Magblade same on my magplar soon I know PVE builds pretty well am not sure we can say the same about you.9 times out of 10 my approach works because I actually know what am doing and how PVP works and not just sayings things to have a argument.

As allways, any arguement over game mechanics devolves into a shouting match about whether you have enough achievement cred to be taken seriously.

Personally I think jesus beam is meh. I think it'd be much better removed and replaced with something that gives templars some active resource management as that's the one place their hurting compared to the other classes. People like to tout templars as 'op' but the fact is they have very few things going for them, they just have a good kit that's fairly flexable. But they -suck- in the resource management department, most of their abilities are high cost.

My magplar wouldn't give up jesus beam for a new resource management toy. While it is challenging at times, I've learned to get by on around 1600 magicka regen + channeled focus. Making sure to always pass through it or recast it every 8 seconds was the "game changer" for me, as it provides the equivalent of 480 magicka regen on your character sheet. I also tend to chug a basic magicka pot as soon as I'm below 75% magicka the first time and keep them rolling for the 20% regen bonus.

Now stamplar? Sure! Make the other morph of beam something for resource management I guess... lol... repentence is amazing but you gotta have corpses which is often the issue to begin with.

Pathfinder · December 2016

I will be glad to give up Radiant in exchange for a spam-able root.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · December 2016

ArchMikem wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

If you don't get why it's powerful, you should try using other class/weapon executes and compare them objectively. You'll learn to love radiant.

Killer's Blade has a permanent spot on my StamBlade's bar, however I've had a lot of fun with the Magic version which gives it use at range which is much more forgiving in combat.

Mage's Fury is also a fantastic Execute on my MagSorc, since you can cast it even when the enemy's health pool isn't in Execute range yet. It's a pretty great time bomb if you can get the percentage down enough in time.

I won't deny Radiant isn't a wonderful Execute. It's helped me clinch Dungeon Boss fights where my group would have otherwise wiped if I hadn't been on my Templar. But I've just noticed much more often than not in PvP that my Radiant is pretty much shrugged off unless the player was already drastically low.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's an execute...so if you're above 20% it's really not gonna be awesome just like other executes.

It's not the best and honestly if more ppl played a magic NB(they do and then ppl feel stamina is better) that execute is just as awesome

Actually that one is ranged and instant vs radiant being channeled

I will need both of you to stop right there. I have mained a Stamblade since beta the class execute is okay at best it only works at 25% health on a magic build sure you don't have other magic non class executes but on a stamina build a Poison Injection and Reverse Slice works far better as both start at 50%.

Mage's Fury is good but you need to have high burst on a non healing target it can be counter so skills can save you.

Look at the end of the day you can counter other executes or they only work when your actually low health. Jesus Beam may "only" do 3k per tick but if you have 21k health and it's first tick under 50% (10.5) the damage only gets stronger and you really can't counter it 95% of the time cause they stand behind someone else taking skills out of play.

Destruent · December 2016

Slot purge -- use it --> radiant mostly worthless...
Radiant has a different behaviour and different counter compared to other executes...that's how it is.

Lord-Otto · December 2016

Destruent wrote: »

Slot purge -- use it --> radiant mostly worthless...
Radiant has a different behaviour and different counter compared to other executes...that's how it is.

No. Just no.
If you have to ruin your build by slotting a very specific counter to an ability that doesn't punish that ability's user, it's OP.

Destruent · December 2016

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Slot purge -- use it --> radiant mostly worthless...
Radiant has a different behaviour and different counter compared to other executes...that's how it is.

No. Just no.
If you have to ruin your build by slotting a very specific counter to an ability that doesn't punish that ability's user, it's OP.

ok

STEVIL · December 2016

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Slot purge -- use it --> radiant mostly worthless...
Radiant has a different behaviour and different counter compared to other executes...that's how it is.

No. Just no.
If you have to ruin your build by slotting a very specific counter to an ability that doesn't punish that ability's user, it's OP.

I could maybe buy this reasoning if the only thing purge did was to counter radiant but it doesn't. it cleanses multiple effects most of which you are benefited from having purged and it does so for you and allies.

this gives it broader functionality than just countering radiant that can provide benefit in a large number of cases.

Now if the only counter to radiant was slotting and using Equilibrium, maybe you have a solid foundation.

Jaronking · December 2016

Destruent wrote: »

Slot purge -- use it --> radiant mostly worthless...
Radiant has a different behaviour and different counter compared to other executes...that's how it is.

Yes am run purge on my stamblade for a example a very expensive ability that only removed to effects off of me and I can only use twice with tri food and full undaunted.If I use purge I can't use fear,cloak,siphoning attacks.Only class that has a effective purge is the one class who use this ability which is Templar.

zuto40 · December 2016

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's an execute...
It's not the best and honestly if more ppl played a magic NB(they do and then ppl feel stamina is better) that execute is just as awesome

Actually that one is ranged and instant vs radiant being channeled

Impale can be dodged and actually has a pretty common bug right now where it just doesn't connect with anything without giving any feedback. It's also less than half the range (15m vs nearly 40 in Cyro) and doesn't benefit from Cyrodiil's increased range on 25m+ abilities.

I take it you're not taking your own advice about playing a magicka NB.

So impale is stronger against magicka-builds (bc they cannot permadodge) and radiant is stronger against stambuilds (bc they have no shields)...sounds kinda balanced to me...

I agree it's fine too
I think the whole issue with these types of discussions is that the game doesn't seperate PvE from PvP in the effects of skills and passives

It is what it is tho
It's not like all Templars are going around one or two shoting people

Oddly enough with all the complaints NB's do go around one and two shoting ppl

Funny that's it's a balance issue but Templars have no speed boost, no stealth to increase crits and have to get you down to 25% whereas a NB can get you to 25% before you know they're on you

IMO the biggest problem with these discussions with relation to PVP is that people think balance is everyone having the SAME THING. Just b/c one class gets a stronger execute, doesn't mean it's OP or that it needs a nerf. That other class is going to have a significant advantage in another category.

Just like you're saying, NBs have their own advantages that make up for not having the same execute that templars have.

@Kutsuu
Let me be fair I really don't PvP. I go in for PvE stuff
BUT

(Not saying you are)There's a huge difference in a NB complaining about a Templar especially in PvP when a NB with basic gear and just max skills can jump on a Templar and take us from 100% to less than 50% consistently.

The skilled folks knock Templars down to 50% in one shot and then stun or knock us down, so in 3-4 hits you go from being out of combat to dead.

NB group says that Templars are OP who use radiant but there's not one video of a Templar surprise attacking a NB....knocking them to 50% or less in one or two shots and then using the execute and it kills them

That doesn't happen so I can't agree that each has their own benefits
I also do not consider balance as equal opportunities.

I'm also not crying saying NB need a nerf.
I do cry about healing nerf tho but yeah.....NB has the upper hand over any Templar unless they aren't in stealth. Then the fight changes but the NB can go in stealth during a fight....so then it's back to their advantage

You don't PVP so am just going help you out and correct you.If you know what you doing and wearing Impenetrable no NB in basic gear and max skill won't knock you down to 50%.Unless you just ran from keep keep on foot that's the only way their going to one shot you.

Only way a *skilled*NB is going to 3-4 shot you on a magplar is with proc sets and that's proc sets that broken.Not to mentioned that will only work if your out of stam to break free.If your out of stam that's no one fault but your own.

Your next statement clearly show you don't know what your talking about their multiple videos of people from stealth 1-2 shooting players.Its Dark flare from stealth Javelin than RD your dead.Its the basic combo and it will kill just about anything from NB to DK to magsorc.

Only advantage a NB has over a Templar is stealth and incap.Dark cloak is extremely broken right now and your spammable will bring a NB out of cloak so stealth is gone in a NB.Magplar and templars in general has better healing a better execute decent magic sustained. Magplar has way more advantages than any NB.

Like you said you don't PVP so your opinion on the subject should be ignored.

@Jaronking

Woah there....let's not jump to conclusions just because you "think" or have assumed something About another player especially on the forums.
Just because I don't PvP much doesn't mean I don't PvP.

Let's understand I've been playing since early 2013 on two platforms
Let's also understand that I don't need help understanding how the skills and effects work as well as what's broken or working different than it may read or what is assumed

It's straight forward....
Regardless of how I'm using the term or how your using the term "skilled" it's always an assumption because no one can inspect others.
The reality is this....a NB does have the upper hand over a Templar in PvP so what many are experiencing is logic based positioning so that they can remove as many NB advantages as possible to better position themselves to win

The reality also is that there isn't an absolute that only certain "skilled" players can do this or that.
Anyone whose played this game for three years has had the experience of killing and being killed. Also getting revenge and who can read should be able to make adjustments to their opposition

The point I'm making is....don't jump on me making assumptions just because my play style isn't focused on PvP builds or playing PvP more than PvE. Because we are forced to complete PvE achievements in PvP campaigns...after three years I've had more than my experiences in PvP and like anyone else, we have to adapt regardless of preference

What's really irritating about how you've made your comment towards me is this.....
Your whole idea is that because someone plays PvE they don't know what they're talking about. It suggests that you've decided that you're the expect and that their comments should be ignored (you literally wrote that)

Last I checked we all have the same gear, skills, effects and champion points so here's a point of view.
If you are dying to a Templar and you're a NB maybe.....you've got some things you could learn cause when I'm out there many NB's aren't struggling to kill me and 2 or three others.

Consider I'm not even changing my skills for a PvP interaction and can kill others but if it's a NB, them understanding who and when to attack is their advantage and Templars do not measure up to surprise attacks compared to a NB

Also if you get into execute range with anyone, regardless of the skill....you're at the disadvantage so if you die ...that's how the game is designed

But just chill out on jumping all over people they way you did cause in your comments there are things you're writing that are not absolutes. In what I wrote that you quoted, the NB parts are absolutes for my perspective which is what I clarified in my comments.

You can't assume everyone is playing in these certain meta builds and therefore your comments as a PvP gory is what's going on cause that's not correct. Also if you're really into PvP, you have to gain a full understanding of PvE builds too because if you're facing groups...especially of Templars and they have some PvP and PvE mixes in there....you're approach won't work as you have wrote it out.

I didn't assume anything you said yourself I don't PVP.That's no assumption its what you said.Its not a assumption its a fact when you said it.

Honestly from what it seems you don't understand how abilities work because they work differently in PvP and their abilities that are useful in pve that would get you killed using in PVP.

As I pointed out the reality of how it is in PVP is that Nb don't have that many advantages in PVP I told in my last post the only 2 advantages we have and one of them is broken.On a stamblade all we have is Incap since you can purge major facture from SA and if you running heavy it won't do much damage as most Magplar use now.Templars have a in class purge,Major mending,a burst heal,A spammable that goes through dodge roll ,A execute that starts at 50% and doesn't break on LOS always and have a very long range.Templars have way more advantage then a magic or stamblade has.Those are facts when it comes.to PVP. Only time a NB has any kind of advantage is when they ganking and even then it can be countered.

Am not saying people who only PVE don't know what their talking about but when it comes to balancing abilities they don't.For example most PVErs counter argument to nerfing broken proc sets is "don't Nerf them because they loom cool".Yea when that's one of.your arguments I tend not to listen to them.when it comes to balancing.Yes your comment should be ignored when we are talking about PVP balancing because majority of the team Pvers like yourself argue against adjustments just because it would help.improve PVP.

Answer this @NewBlacksmurf what hard mode trial's have you completed? If any at all?Have you done VMA?

Hey am sure I could 1VX you and you friends easy I do it multiple times a day.Ask @danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO I have 1vX and 2VX members of his old guild.Hey if you get your health to 30% and someone hit you with RD your Dead 8/10.So when your getting XV1 that group get you low health you try to heal back up you can't because of RD your dead.On a Templar all I have to do is stand in the back throw a BOL and when he get below 45% just Spam RD and that player dead.

Like I said with all your advantages Magplar have against a Stamblade if you can't kill.one which just so happen is the squishest class in the game that's because your not a good player.Break free BOL back to full health.Like I said if you can't kill a NB that's because you not a good PVP.

Actually RD and mages wrath are one of the only 2 Execute that pretty much give a guarantee kill.

No what you put in your comments where not absolute they were you opinions of how things work not.how they actually work.What I wrote is what actually would occur in PVP on a daily basis.

Well I have done every hard mode PVE trial but VMOL on my stam sorc and Magblade same on my magplar soon I know PVE builds pretty well am not sure we can say the same about you.9 times out of 10 my approach works because I actually know what am doing and how PVP works and not just sayings things to have a argument.

As allways, any arguement over game mechanics devolves into a shouting match about whether you have enough achievement cred to be taken seriously.

Personally I think jesus beam is meh. I think it'd be much better removed and replaced with something that gives templars some active resource management as that's the one place their hurting compared to the other classes. People like to tout templars as 'op' but the fact is they have very few things going for them, they just have a good kit that's fairly flexable. But they -suck- in the resource management department, most of their abilities are high cost.

yea it requires cred, cause if your some noob who's barely out of stonefalls why and how would you know anything? if your an accomplished pvper and pver then you clearly know something, and jesus beam needs to go, ill take blinding flashes over that trash

RinaldoGandolphi · December 2016

Of course it's a bug but:

I took 10k damage from a Radiant while having Corosive Armor up..it's supposed cap all incoming damage at 3% of my max health, but hey....can't let anything get in the way of that holy beam right?

Tormy · December 2016

I use to cry about radiant but it's easily countered tbh. Bash, interupt and LOS.

Jaronking · December 2016

zuto40 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's an execute...
It's not the best and honestly if more ppl played a magic NB(they do and then ppl feel stamina is better) that execute is just as awesome

Actually that one is ranged and instant vs radiant being channeled

Impale can be dodged and actually has a pretty common bug right now where it just doesn't connect with anything without giving any feedback. It's also less than half the range (15m vs nearly 40 in Cyro) and doesn't benefit from Cyrodiil's increased range on 25m+ abilities.

I take it you're not taking your own advice about playing a magicka NB.

So impale is stronger against magicka-builds (bc they cannot permadodge) and radiant is stronger against stambuilds (bc they have no shields)...sounds kinda balanced to me...

I agree it's fine too
I think the whole issue with these types of discussions is that the game doesn't seperate PvE from PvP in the effects of skills and passives

It is what it is tho
It's not like all Templars are going around one or two shoting people

Oddly enough with all the complaints NB's do go around one and two shoting ppl

Funny that's it's a balance issue but Templars have no speed boost, no stealth to increase crits and have to get you down to 25% whereas a NB can get you to 25% before you know they're on you

IMO the biggest problem with these discussions with relation to PVP is that people think balance is everyone having the SAME THING. Just b/c one class gets a stronger execute, doesn't mean it's OP or that it needs a nerf. That other class is going to have a significant advantage in another category.

Just like you're saying, NBs have their own advantages that make up for not having the same execute that templars have.

@Kutsuu
Let me be fair I really don't PvP. I go in for PvE stuff
BUT

(Not saying you are)There's a huge difference in a NB complaining about a Templar especially in PvP when a NB with basic gear and just max skills can jump on a Templar and take us from 100% to less than 50% consistently.

The skilled folks knock Templars down to 50% in one shot and then stun or knock us down, so in 3-4 hits you go from being out of combat to dead.

NB group says that Templars are OP who use radiant but there's not one video of a Templar surprise attacking a NB....knocking them to 50% or less in one or two shots and then using the execute and it kills them

That doesn't happen so I can't agree that each has their own benefits
I also do not consider balance as equal opportunities.

I'm also not crying saying NB need a nerf.
I do cry about healing nerf tho but yeah.....NB has the upper hand over any Templar unless they aren't in stealth. Then the fight changes but the NB can go in stealth during a fight....so then it's back to their advantage

You don't PVP so am just going help you out and correct you.If you know what you doing and wearing Impenetrable no NB in basic gear and max skill won't knock you down to 50%.Unless you just ran from keep keep on foot that's the only way their going to one shot you.

Only way a *skilled*NB is going to 3-4 shot you on a magplar is with proc sets and that's proc sets that broken.Not to mentioned that will only work if your out of stam to break free.If your out of stam that's no one fault but your own.

Your next statement clearly show you don't know what your talking about their multiple videos of people from stealth 1-2 shooting players.Its Dark flare from stealth Javelin than RD your dead.Its the basic combo and it will kill just about anything from NB to DK to magsorc.

Only advantage a NB has over a Templar is stealth and incap.Dark cloak is extremely broken right now and your spammable will bring a NB out of cloak so stealth is gone in a NB.Magplar and templars in general has better healing a better execute decent magic sustained. Magplar has way more advantages than any NB.

Like you said you don't PVP so your opinion on the subject should be ignored.

@Jaronking

Woah there....let's not jump to conclusions just because you "think" or have assumed something About another player especially on the forums.
Just because I don't PvP much doesn't mean I don't PvP.

Let's understand I've been playing since early 2013 on two platforms
Let's also understand that I don't need help understanding how the skills and effects work as well as what's broken or working different than it may read or what is assumed

It's straight forward....
Regardless of how I'm using the term or how your using the term "skilled" it's always an assumption because no one can inspect others.
The reality is this....a NB does have the upper hand over a Templar in PvP so what many are experiencing is logic based positioning so that they can remove as many NB advantages as possible to better position themselves to win

The reality also is that there isn't an absolute that only certain "skilled" players can do this or that.
Anyone whose played this game for three years has had the experience of killing and being killed. Also getting revenge and who can read should be able to make adjustments to their opposition

The point I'm making is....don't jump on me making assumptions just because my play style isn't focused on PvP builds or playing PvP more than PvE. Because we are forced to complete PvE achievements in PvP campaigns...after three years I've had more than my experiences in PvP and like anyone else, we have to adapt regardless of preference

What's really irritating about how you've made your comment towards me is this.....
Your whole idea is that because someone plays PvE they don't know what they're talking about. It suggests that you've decided that you're the expect and that their comments should be ignored (you literally wrote that)

Last I checked we all have the same gear, skills, effects and champion points so here's a point of view.
If you are dying to a Templar and you're a NB maybe.....you've got some things you could learn cause when I'm out there many NB's aren't struggling to kill me and 2 or three others.

Consider I'm not even changing my skills for a PvP interaction and can kill others but if it's a NB, them understanding who and when to attack is their advantage and Templars do not measure up to surprise attacks compared to a NB

Also if you get into execute range with anyone, regardless of the skill....you're at the disadvantage so if you die ...that's how the game is designed

But just chill out on jumping all over people they way you did cause in your comments there are things you're writing that are not absolutes. In what I wrote that you quoted, the NB parts are absolutes for my perspective which is what I clarified in my comments.

You can't assume everyone is playing in these certain meta builds and therefore your comments as a PvP gory is what's going on cause that's not correct. Also if you're really into PvP, you have to gain a full understanding of PvE builds too because if you're facing groups...especially of Templars and they have some PvP and PvE mixes in there....you're approach won't work as you have wrote it out.

I didn't assume anything you said yourself I don't PVP.That's no assumption its what you said.Its not a assumption its a fact when you said it.

Honestly from what it seems you don't understand how abilities work because they work differently in PvP and their abilities that are useful in pve that would get you killed using in PVP.

As I pointed out the reality of how it is in PVP is that Nb don't have that many advantages in PVP I told in my last post the only 2 advantages we have and one of them is broken.On a stamblade all we have is Incap since you can purge major facture from SA and if you running heavy it won't do much damage as most Magplar use now.Templars have a in class purge,Major mending,a burst heal,A spammable that goes through dodge roll ,A execute that starts at 50% and doesn't break on LOS always and have a very long range.Templars have way more advantage then a magic or stamblade has.Those are facts when it comes.to PVP. Only time a NB has any kind of advantage is when they ganking and even then it can be countered.

Am not saying people who only PVE don't know what their talking about but when it comes to balancing abilities they don't.For example most PVErs counter argument to nerfing broken proc sets is "don't Nerf them because they loom cool".Yea when that's one of.your arguments I tend not to listen to them.when it comes to balancing.Yes your comment should be ignored when we are talking about PVP balancing because majority of the team Pvers like yourself argue against adjustments just because it would help.improve PVP.

Answer this @NewBlacksmurf what hard mode trial's have you completed? If any at all?Have you done VMA?

Hey am sure I could 1VX you and you friends easy I do it multiple times a day.Ask @danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO I have 1vX and 2VX members of his old guild.Hey if you get your health to 30% and someone hit you with RD your Dead 8/10.So when your getting XV1 that group get you low health you try to heal back up you can't because of RD your dead.On a Templar all I have to do is stand in the back throw a BOL and when he get below 45% just Spam RD and that player dead.

Like I said with all your advantages Magplar have against a Stamblade if you can't kill.one which just so happen is the squishest class in the game that's because your not a good player.Break free BOL back to full health.Like I said if you can't kill a NB that's because you not a good PVP.

Actually RD and mages wrath are one of the only 2 Execute that pretty much give a guarantee kill.

No what you put in your comments where not absolute they were you opinions of how things work not.how they actually work.What I wrote is what actually would occur in PVP on a daily basis.

Well I have done every hard mode PVE trial but VMOL on my stam sorc and Magblade same on my magplar soon I know PVE builds pretty well am not sure we can say the same about you.9 times out of 10 my approach works because I actually know what am doing and how PVP works and not just sayings things to have a argument.

As allways, any arguement over game mechanics devolves into a shouting match about whether you have enough achievement cred to be taken seriously.

Personally I think jesus beam is meh. I think it'd be much better removed and replaced with something that gives templars some active resource management as that's the one place their hurting compared to the other classes. People like to tout templars as 'op' but the fact is they have very few things going for them, they just have a good kit that's fairly flexable. But they -suck- in the resource management department, most of their abilities are high cost.

yea it requires cred, cause if your some noob who's barely out of stonefalls why and how would you know anything? if your an accomplished pvper and pver then you clearly know something, and jesus beam needs to go, ill take blinding flashes over that trash

Thank you.

Waseem · December 2016

the huge wave of everyone becoming a beamplar has been steadied now

thankyourat · December 2016

montiferus wrote: »

ostrapz wrote: »

Rinning solo in the middle of an open field with no trees. Get hit by a dark flare and im at 70% hp, turn around and there are 3 magplars who have all started to beam me. I Vigor and Rally and ambush at the closest one , bas and drop incap with the nb burst that should be my class advantage right ( without procs mind you). He blockcast a Bol and goes from 70% health back up to full. Meanwhile the 2 beams have kept my health from rising. I Vigor and turn to see that the 1 I attacked has backed up and the other 2 have formed a triangle around me. At this point they literally just beamed me for the next 10 seconds while I try to block/rally/Vigor, hike all 3 of them continue to back up in their respective directions. Tried a desperation cloak which to any who main nb know breaks the beam but doesn't make you invisible, which the templars reacted to with another round of beams. At that point I had no stam and I just fell over and died. At the end of the day they were either very bad or trolling, either way they should not have been able to kill me with pure executes, not to mention in a way that never placed any in danger. No other executes in the game could kill you like that. Maybe if cloak worked correctly I'd have no argument here but it does not. And imo if I'm better than those 3 players I should have been able to have some counterplay and pull off a victory. Instead 3 subpar players killed me because mechanics didn't allow me to beat them. Templars can use Sweeps through dodgeroll already so why do they need Radiant doing the same thing

I agree with all this but I will say it is pretty rare to see you or any other EP character "alone". LOL.

The EP ball zergs in Haddy have been pretty ridiculous as of late. I usually run solo or with 2 buddies and it is pretty tough to get anything accomplished when you are that outnumbered.

That said I have seen you around and you are a very good player so please take the dig with that in mind!

Lol this guy. I'm pretty sure the biggest ball zergs in haddy belong to DC. like right now DC has emp I'm sure they got that by being in small groups. But I've also run into a group of 3 AD templars that did the same thing. it was no pressure I could put on them even if you try to target one to bring down one will just heal him back to full. If you get 2 or more templars on you even if they aren't very good it's really nothing you can do as long as they know how to press two buttons. Something with Jesus beam needs to be changed. I think the channel needs to go. A channeled, undodgeable execute is just bad game design