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I'm Surprised More People Don't Play This Game
-
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭People will whine even harder about BGs and arenas....
and you'll be crying about it as well.Joy_Division wrote: »- Boring, buggy launch meant meh reviews. First impressions count.
- Grind has always been terrible. Veteran ranks was a flat out dumb idea. I ran DSA over 200 times and never got a master's inferno, let alone with a decent trait.
- Anti-bot measures and lightning patch killed Cyordiil. There are what, maybe 300 NA regulars that play nightly? That's it.
- I can live with balance issues, I cannot tolerate having to deal with stupidity and waiting 6 months for the devs to actually address stuff they acknowledge is busted. The most asinine business model in existence: "Yeah, we know Proc sets are broken, but bear with us as we say nothing, do not solicit your input, while we internally test things out to release something next year."
- The gameplay is engaging, the actual content is mostly mind-numbingly easy. PvE = stack and burn. PvP: use destro ult or wear three proc sets.
- Lack of communication from ZoS. Keep us out of the dark and then just spring a patch that they aren't willing to change anything no matter how busted it is.
- I waited a year for housing. Now they tell me I cant store anything in it. That's a rather important game mechanic. Contrary to what Rich Lambert believes, logging into 8 alts to juggle inventory for an hour is not fun. Some of there decisions are just ming-bogglingly dumb. The whole IC patch supposed to be for PvPers and is a PVE patch with PVPenebaled was the height of stupidity. PvE players don't want to get insta-killed by gankers and PvP players want to fight other players not NPCs.
- We are going on three years with healing ritual being terrible. I am bored of using the same 9 skills over and over and over again.
IC is a copy of darkness falls; an incredibly popular feature from a very good pvp game.
It's main issue is removing the one thing that made darkness falls work; a lockout...https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos2 -
arkansas_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ghost-Shot wrote: »Honestly I think its because the game play is just so dull, most MMO players I know are looking for a game where skillful play is heavily rewarded and that just doesn't exist here. When you combine dull game play with stagnant PvP and mediocre at best PvE you aren't going to have a huge following.
Isn't "a MMO where skillful play is heavily rewarded" kind of an oxymoron? When you think of "MMO", it's all about progression, from the 48-man groups in Everquest farming rare drops, to us running vCOH 100+ times for the weapon we want in the trait we want, to grinding engrams or whatever it is you do in Destiny.
This focus on progression is antithetical to competitive play, because whoever has grinded more will win more, ex. if I'm the only max CP character in a campaign I'm going to stomp everybody else, if I've grinded for this super rare sword that does triple the damage of anybody else's swords I'm going to have a huge advantage going into each fight, etc. Compare this to a competitive title like Overwatch, where there's zero things to grind, ex. as a max level player my gun will do the exact same amount of damage as somebody who is at level one.
The whole point of a competitive game is that everybody is on the same playing field in terms of raw stats (damage, health, etc.) and who wins and who loses all comes down to skillful play, ex. who has better aim, who has better positioning, etc., and the whole point of an MMO is that you can have a raw stat advantage because you've played more than the other guy.Edited by arkansas_ESO on December 10, 2016 11:47AMＦＯＲＵＭＰＬＡＲ
Grand Overlord 25/8/172 -
Iyas✭✭✭✭✭
✭The one thing ESO got right was their timing. There is no real competition atm and that is one of the reasons most of the ppl are still here. Imagine another shiny mmo with good pvp in the beginning and most ppl would be gone for good.8 -
Sugaroverdose✭✭✭✭✭
It's not that simple, in every mmo you can 1vX only because you know better how to counter what and "how to gotcha those guy" also in ESO you know in what moment you need to breakfree and when it's better to CC, what ultimate to use, which skills are useless in particular figh which is also considers as skillarkansas_ESO wrote: »Ghost-Shot wrote: »Honestly I think its because the game play is just so dull, most MMO players I know are looking for a game where skillful play is heavily rewarded and that just doesn't exist here. When you combine dull game play with stagnant PvP and mediocre at best PvE you aren't going to have a huge following.
Isn't "a MMO where skillful play is heavily rewarded" kind of an oxymoron? When you think of "MMO", it's all about progression, from the 48-man groups in Everquest farming rare drops, to us running vCOH 100+ times for the weapon we want in the trait we want, to grinding engrams or whatever it is you do in Destiny.
This focus on progression is antithetical to competitive play, because whoever has grinded more will win more, ex. if I'm the only max CP character in a campaign I'm going to stomp everybody else, if I've grinded for this super rare sword that does triple the damage of anybody else's swords I'm going to have a huge advantage going into each fight, etc. Compare this to a competitive title like Overwatch, where there's zero things to grind, ex. as a max level player my gun will do the exact same amount of damage as somebody who is at level one.
The whole point of a competitive game is that everybody is on the same playing field in terms of raw stats (damage, health, etc.) and who wins and who loses all comes down to skillful play, ex. who has better aim, who has better positioning, etc., and the whole point of an MMO is that you can have a raw stat advantage because you've played more than the other guy.Edited by Sugaroverdose on December 10, 2016 11:59AM0 -
arkansas_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭God_flakes wrote: »PvP literally sells games. I don't understand how people/devs can be so completely blind to this. The only thing I can think of for ESO is that they know their servers cannot handle a large PvP population so they intentionally neglect it. Every top streamer/game on twitch does PvP aside from some players in wow and that is more of a prestige thing because being in a top PvE guild in WoW is actually an accomplishment. ESO is literally bottom of the barrel when it comes to Twitch, and even there at that bottom if you watch some streams you will see so many people come in asking if they should get the game or saying they are new to the game and ask for tips. If ESO promoted on Twitch at all, and made PvP a real focus IMO you would see that happen more often. It's literally free advertising, but they've been advertising a broken game.
Exactly.
What is the number one most popular video game right now?
League of legends.
It has one map, one super simple set of rules.
But they continually update it for balance and freshness.
It is PvP.
All the top games on twitch or youtube are PvP.
WoW is an absolute anaomoly in terms of PvE content that drives sales. In fact, hundreds of games across a decade tried to copy this and failed.
I'm afraid I need something resembling proof that LOL is #1 rn......
http://www.gametrics.com/
Use Google Translate and then look at the list in the top right corner. This list shows the most played games at internet cafes in Korea. Notice that #1 and #2, Overwatch and League of Legends, are both focused around PVP.ＦＯＲＵＭＰＬＡＲ
Grand Overlord 25/8/170 -
arkansas_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sugaroverdose wrote: »
It's not that simple, in every mmo you can 1vX only because you know better how to counter what and "how to gotcha those guy" also in ESO you know in what moment you need to breakfree and when it's better to CC, what ultimate to use, which skills are useless in particular figh which is also considers as skillarkansas_ESO wrote: »Ghost-Shot wrote: »Honestly I think its because the game play is just so dull, most MMO players I know are looking for a game where skillful play is heavily rewarded and that just doesn't exist here. When you combine dull game play with stagnant PvP and mediocre at best PvE you aren't going to have a huge following.
Isn't "a MMO where skillful play is heavily rewarded" kind of an oxymoron? When you think of "MMO", it's all about progression, from the 48-man groups in Everquest farming rare drops, to us running vCOH 100+ times for the weapon we want in the trait we want, to grinding engrams or whatever it is you do in Destiny.
This focus on progression is antithetical to competitive play, because whoever has grinded more will win more, ex. if I'm the only max CP character in a campaign I'm going to stomp everybody else, if I've grinded for this super rare sword that does triple the damage of anybody else's swords I'm going to have a huge advantage going into each fight, etc. Compare this to a competitive title like Overwatch, where there's zero things to grind, ex. as a max level player my gun will do the exact same amount of damage as somebody who is at level one.
The whole point of a competitive game is that everybody is on the same playing field in terms of raw stats (damage, health, etc.) and who wins and who loses all comes down to skillful play, ex. who has better aim, who has better positioning, etc., and the whole point of an MMO is that you can have a raw stat advantage because you've played more than the other guy.
I'm not trying to say that there isn't any skill involved in ESO PVP, just that there isn't much, and gear and levels plays a greater part. If you don't believe me, put green CP10 gear on your CP160 character, only use 300 CP, and then try to 1vX. You'll notice it's substantially harder.ＦＯＲＵＭＰＬＡＲ
Grand Overlord 25/8/171 -
God_flakes✭✭✭✭✭
✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »God_flakes wrote: »PvP literally sells games. I don't understand how people/devs can be so completely blind to this. The only thing I can think of for ESO is that they know their servers cannot handle a large PvP population so they intentionally neglect it. Every top streamer/game on twitch does PvP aside from some players in wow and that is more of a prestige thing because being in a top PvE guild in WoW is actually an accomplishment. ESO is literally bottom of the barrel when it comes to Twitch, and even there at that bottom if you watch some streams you will see so many people come in asking if they should get the game or saying they are new to the game and ask for tips. If ESO promoted on Twitch at all, and made PvP a real focus IMO you would see that happen more often. It's literally free advertising, but they've been advertising a broken game.
Exactly.
What is the number one most popular video game right now?
League of legends.
It has one map, one super simple set of rules.
But they continually update it for balance and freshness.
It is PvP.
All the top games on twitch or youtube are PvP.
WoW is an absolute anaomoly in terms of PvE content that drives sales. In fact, hundreds of games across a decade tried to copy this and failed.
I'm afraid I need something resembling proof that LOL is #1 rn......
http://www.gametrics.com/
Use Google Translate and then look at the list in the top right corner. This list shows the most played games at internet cafes in Korea. Notice that #1 and #2, Overwatch and League of Legends, are both focused around PVP.
Forgive me, but why should I care what's #1 in Korea?0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »Sugaroverdose wrote: »
It's not that simple, in every mmo you can 1vX only because you know better how to counter what and "how to gotcha those guy" also in ESO you know in what moment you need to breakfree and when it's better to CC, what ultimate to use, which skills are useless in particular figh which is also considers as skillarkansas_ESO wrote: »Ghost-Shot wrote: »Honestly I think its because the game play is just so dull, most MMO players I know are looking for a game where skillful play is heavily rewarded and that just doesn't exist here. When you combine dull game play with stagnant PvP and mediocre at best PvE you aren't going to have a huge following.
Isn't "a MMO where skillful play is heavily rewarded" kind of an oxymoron? When you think of "MMO", it's all about progression, from the 48-man groups in Everquest farming rare drops, to us running vCOH 100+ times for the weapon we want in the trait we want, to grinding engrams or whatever it is you do in Destiny.
This focus on progression is antithetical to competitive play, because whoever has grinded more will win more, ex. if I'm the only max CP character in a campaign I'm going to stomp everybody else, if I've grinded for this super rare sword that does triple the damage of anybody else's swords I'm going to have a huge advantage going into each fight, etc. Compare this to a competitive title like Overwatch, where there's zero things to grind, ex. as a max level player my gun will do the exact same amount of damage as somebody who is at level one.
The whole point of a competitive game is that everybody is on the same playing field in terms of raw stats (damage, health, etc.) and who wins and who loses all comes down to skillful play, ex. who has better aim, who has better positioning, etc., and the whole point of an MMO is that you can have a raw stat advantage because you've played more than the other guy.
I'm not trying to say that there isn't any skill involved in ESO PVP, just that there isn't much, and gear and levels plays a greater part. If you don't believe me, put green CP10 gear on your CP160 character, only use 300 CP, and then try to 1vX. You'll notice it's substantially harder.
I imagine it'd be a lot like playing a CS match with a glock vs an ak47https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭People will whine even harder about BGs and arenas....
and you'll be crying about it as well.Joy_Division wrote: »- Boring, buggy launch meant meh reviews. First impressions count.
- Grind has always been terrible. Veteran ranks was a flat out dumb idea. I ran DSA over 200 times and never got a master's inferno, let alone with a decent trait.
- Anti-bot measures and lightning patch killed Cyordiil. There are what, maybe 300 NA regulars that play nightly? That's it.
- I can live with balance issues, I cannot tolerate having to deal with stupidity and waiting 6 months for the devs to actually address stuff they acknowledge is busted. The most asinine business model in existence: "Yeah, we know Proc sets are broken, but bear with us as we say nothing, do not solicit your input, while we internally test things out to release something next year."
- The gameplay is engaging, the actual content is mostly mind-numbingly easy. PvE = stack and burn. PvP: use destro ult or wear three proc sets.
- Lack of communication from ZoS. Keep us out of the dark and then just spring a patch that they aren't willing to change anything no matter how busted it is.
- I waited a year for housing. Now they tell me I cant store anything in it. That's a rather important game mechanic. Contrary to what Rich Lambert believes, logging into 8 alts to juggle inventory for an hour is not fun. Some of there decisions are just ming-bogglingly dumb. The whole IC patch supposed to be for PvPers and is a PVE patch with PVPenebaled was the height of stupidity. PvE players don't want to get insta-killed by gankers and PvP players want to fight other players not NPCs.
- We are going on three years with healing ritual being terrible. I am bored of using the same 9 skills over and over and over again.
IC is a copy of darkness falls; an incredibly popular feature from a very good pvp game.
It's main issue is removing the one thing that made darkness falls work; a lockout...
A lockout and only having one dungeon available for your account.
There is no point in having a lockout when you can just jump into a campaign where your faction holds the whole map.
Which just illustrates a general problem with their pvp campaign system - people not being commited to their faction nor to a single campaign to play on.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The one thing ESO got right was their timing. There is no real competition atm and that is one of the reasons most of the ppl are still here. Imagine another shiny mmo with good pvp in the beginning and most ppl would be gone for good.
Well I can't score the future but these sentiments from players have existed about ESO since launch that I can remember. Or at least a few short months after launch. And people prophesized ESO's doom and even threatened ZOS to try and force their hand in making changes with the releases of ArcheAge and BDO.
If we are honestly to keep score, ESO is 2-0. Everyone's favorite hair product abusing elf boy SypherPK indulged his fans to how many days and weeks of BDO? Before once again returning to ESO. Hektik's ex wife and crocs footwear aficionado Julesy Wulsey featured BDO on her stream or YouTube for how many days and weeks? Before once again returning to help shuttle around Haxus to soccer practice in the minivan.
CU can benefit from enthusiasm and hope. But when the future eventually becomes the present, the true story will be written. And not even King Arthur can change that. Whether he and Lancelot are unchained or not.3 -
arkansas_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭God_flakes wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »God_flakes wrote: »PvP literally sells games. I don't understand how people/devs can be so completely blind to this. The only thing I can think of for ESO is that they know their servers cannot handle a large PvP population so they intentionally neglect it. Every top streamer/game on twitch does PvP aside from some players in wow and that is more of a prestige thing because being in a top PvE guild in WoW is actually an accomplishment. ESO is literally bottom of the barrel when it comes to Twitch, and even there at that bottom if you watch some streams you will see so many people come in asking if they should get the game or saying they are new to the game and ask for tips. If ESO promoted on Twitch at all, and made PvP a real focus IMO you would see that happen more often. It's literally free advertising, but they've been advertising a broken game.
Exactly.
What is the number one most popular video game right now?
League of legends.
It has one map, one super simple set of rules.
But they continually update it for balance and freshness.
It is PvP.
All the top games on twitch or youtube are PvP.
WoW is an absolute anaomoly in terms of PvE content that drives sales. In fact, hundreds of games across a decade tried to copy this and failed.
I'm afraid I need something resembling proof that LOL is #1 rn......
http://www.gametrics.com/
Use Google Translate and then look at the list in the top right corner. This list shows the most played games at internet cafes in Korea. Notice that #1 and #2, Overwatch and League of Legends, are both focused around PVP.
Forgive me, but why should I care what's #1 in Korea?
https://newzoo.com/insights/rankings/top-100-countries-by-game-revenues/
It's the fifth largest market for video games in terms of revenue and a good indicator of where the industry in general is headingarkansas_ESO wrote: »Sugaroverdose wrote: »
It's not that simple, in every mmo you can 1vX only because you know better how to counter what and "how to gotcha those guy" also in ESO you know in what moment you need to breakfree and when it's better to CC, what ultimate to use, which skills are useless in particular figh which is also considers as skillarkansas_ESO wrote: »Ghost-Shot wrote: »Honestly I think its because the game play is just so dull, most MMO players I know are looking for a game where skillful play is heavily rewarded and that just doesn't exist here. When you combine dull game play with stagnant PvP and mediocre at best PvE you aren't going to have a huge following.
Isn't "a MMO where skillful play is heavily rewarded" kind of an oxymoron? When you think of "MMO", it's all about progression, from the 48-man groups in Everquest farming rare drops, to us running vCOH 100+ times for the weapon we want in the trait we want, to grinding engrams or whatever it is you do in Destiny.
This focus on progression is antithetical to competitive play, because whoever has grinded more will win more, ex. if I'm the only max CP character in a campaign I'm going to stomp everybody else, if I've grinded for this super rare sword that does triple the damage of anybody else's swords I'm going to have a huge advantage going into each fight, etc. Compare this to a competitive title like Overwatch, where there's zero things to grind, ex. as a max level player my gun will do the exact same amount of damage as somebody who is at level one.
The whole point of a competitive game is that everybody is on the same playing field in terms of raw stats (damage, health, etc.) and who wins and who loses all comes down to skillful play, ex. who has better aim, who has better positioning, etc., and the whole point of an MMO is that you can have a raw stat advantage because you've played more than the other guy.
I'm not trying to say that there isn't any skill involved in ESO PVP, just that there isn't much, and gear and levels plays a greater part. If you don't believe me, put green CP10 gear on your CP160 character, only use 300 CP, and then try to 1vX. You'll notice it's substantially harder.
I imagine it'd be a lot like playing a CS match with a glock vs an ak47
The difference between CS:GO and ESO is that in CS:GO you have to rebuy your weapons and armor at the start of every round, so saving your money by only using a pistol in one round so that you can have a better weapon the next round is a viable strategy. The "match economy" is a pretty big part of CS:GO: http://team-dignitas.net/articles/blogs/CSGO/5739/A-guide-to-understanding-the-CSGO-economy-and-moneymaking
In comparison, ESO doesn't do things like make you re-upgrade your gear to gold at the start of every campaign cycle, so there's really no reason to save your money for the next "round." You should grind the BiS gear, you should grind up enough upgrade materials to make it all gold, and then you'll use that gear until ZOS introduces something better, and then you start the grind all over again.ＦＯＲＵＭＰＬＡＲ
Grand Overlord 25/8/170 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »The one thing ESO got right was their timing. There is no real competition atm and that is one of the reasons most of the ppl are still here. Imagine another shiny mmo with good pvp in the beginning and most ppl would be gone for good.
Well I can't score the future but these sentiments from players have existed about ESO since launch that I can remember. Or at least a few short months after launch. And people prophesized ESO's doom and even threatened ZOS to try and force their hand in making changes with the releases of ArcheAge and BDO.
If we are honestly to keep score, ESO is 2-0. Everyone's favorite hair product abusing elf boy SypherPK indulged his fans to how many days and weeks of BDO? Before once again returning to ESO. Hektik's ex wife and crocs footwear aficionado Julesy Wulsey featured BDO on her stream or YouTube for how many days and weeks? Before once again returning to help shuttle around Haxus to soccer practice in the minivan.
CU can benefit from enthusiasm and hope. But when the future eventually becomes the present, the true story will be written. And not even King Arthur can change that. Whether he and Lancelot are unchained or not.
I don´t even think CU and ESO have a large overlap in their target audience. They´re not competing for the majority of their playerbase and in terms of pvp eso killed itself long ago.
I´d be suprised if there were more than 1500 pvp regulars on the EU server.
People who mainly enjoy eso for it´s unique combat system will probably not find fun in rigid old fashioned mmo combat.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
God_flakes✭✭✭✭✭
✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »God_flakes wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »God_flakes wrote: »PvP literally sells games. I don't understand how people/devs can be so completely blind to this. The only thing I can think of for ESO is that they know their servers cannot handle a large PvP population so they intentionally neglect it. Every top streamer/game on twitch does PvP aside from some players in wow and that is more of a prestige thing because being in a top PvE guild in WoW is actually an accomplishment. ESO is literally bottom of the barrel when it comes to Twitch, and even there at that bottom if you watch some streams you will see so many people come in asking if they should get the game or saying they are new to the game and ask for tips. If ESO promoted on Twitch at all, and made PvP a real focus IMO you would see that happen more often. It's literally free advertising, but they've been advertising a broken game.
Exactly.
What is the number one most popular video game right now?
League of legends.
It has one map, one super simple set of rules.
But they continually update it for balance and freshness.
It is PvP.
All the top games on twitch or youtube are PvP.
WoW is an absolute anaomoly in terms of PvE content that drives sales. In fact, hundreds of games across a decade tried to copy this and failed.
I'm afraid I need something resembling proof that LOL is #1 rn......
http://www.gametrics.com/
Use Google Translate and then look at the list in the top right corner. This list shows the most played games at internet cafes in Korea. Notice that #1 and #2, Overwatch and League of Legends, are both focused around PVP.
Forgive me, but why should I care what's #1 in Korea?
https://newzoo.com/insights/rankings/top-100-countries-by-game-revenues/
It's the fifth largest market for video games in terms of revenue and a good indicator of where the industry in general is headingarkansas_ESO wrote: »Sugaroverdose wrote: »
It's not that simple, in every mmo you can 1vX only because you know better how to counter what and "how to gotcha those guy" also in ESO you know in what moment you need to breakfree and when it's better to CC, what ultimate to use, which skills are useless in particular figh which is also considers as skillarkansas_ESO wrote: »Ghost-Shot wrote: »Honestly I think its because the game play is just so dull, most MMO players I know are looking for a game where skillful play is heavily rewarded and that just doesn't exist here. When you combine dull game play with stagnant PvP and mediocre at best PvE you aren't going to have a huge following.
Isn't "a MMO where skillful play is heavily rewarded" kind of an oxymoron? When you think of "MMO", it's all about progression, from the 48-man groups in Everquest farming rare drops, to us running vCOH 100+ times for the weapon we want in the trait we want, to grinding engrams or whatever it is you do in Destiny.
This focus on progression is antithetical to competitive play, because whoever has grinded more will win more, ex. if I'm the only max CP character in a campaign I'm going to stomp everybody else, if I've grinded for this super rare sword that does triple the damage of anybody else's swords I'm going to have a huge advantage going into each fight, etc. Compare this to a competitive title like Overwatch, where there's zero things to grind, ex. as a max level player my gun will do the exact same amount of damage as somebody who is at level one.
The whole point of a competitive game is that everybody is on the same playing field in terms of raw stats (damage, health, etc.) and who wins and who loses all comes down to skillful play, ex. who has better aim, who has better positioning, etc., and the whole point of an MMO is that you can have a raw stat advantage because you've played more than the other guy.
I'm not trying to say that there isn't any skill involved in ESO PVP, just that there isn't much, and gear and levels plays a greater part. If you don't believe me, put green CP10 gear on your CP160 character, only use 300 CP, and then try to 1vX. You'll notice it's substantially harder.
I imagine it'd be a lot like playing a CS match with a glock vs an ak47
The difference between CS:GO and ESO is that in CS:GO you have to rebuy your weapons and armor at the start of every round, so saving your money by only using a pistol in one round so that you can have a better weapon the next round is a viable strategy. The "match economy" is a pretty big part of CS:GO: http://team-dignitas.net/articles/blogs/CSGO/5739/A-guide-to-understanding-the-CSGO-economy-and-moneymaking
In comparison, ESO doesn't do things like make you re-upgrade your gear to gold at the start of every campaign cycle, so there's really no reason to save your money for the next "round." You should grind the BiS gear, you should grind up enough upgrade materials to make it all gold, and then you'll use that gear until ZOS introduces something better, and then you start the grind all over again.
Yeah...try as I may I can't care about the "fifth largest market" or Korean preferences. I don't think that's an indicator of how popular MMo's are or how popular Eso is.1 -
bellanca6561n✭✭✭✭✭
✭God_flakes wrote: »bellanca6561n wrote: »God_flakes wrote: »4. As a casual gamer I couldn't care less what some entitled millennial college game designer thinks about this game or who and what elitist gamer considers what is an MMO or not.
Not quite sure what set you off there, @God_flakes but this is an emotional topic.
The term, entitled millennial, only exists in the United States. And young folks in other countries are not so different. It's part of the manufactured conflict industry in the States.
I'm not an elitist gamer, if you were referring to me. I'm a retired online game developer meaning I would naturally have encountered more types of, and approaches to, online games purely by being old
As a commercial enterprise it goes back to 1985. As a form of computer entertainment it goes back to 1975.
I don't recall the term, MMO, being applied to online games until after the launch of Ultima Online, but I could be wrong about that. We just called them mpgames....and many old timers still do.
It could have been worse. The term, Mega Player, very nearly caught on around that time
If MMOs fail to appeal to young people, then it's a dying genre. I'd rather it not die. Thus it needs to change.
Not sure I agree with you that it is a dying genre. Take Rust, for example (which a lot of gamer friends I know play) It is an "Indie" MMO that sold over a million copies on Steam and is wildly popular. I don't think you can base the popularity of the genre on Eso's popularity. Eso has a narrower scope of players whom it appeals to.
And the genre is huge in the east. Perfect World re-shaped e-commerce in China. It's not just about Korea and Nexon which gave us the free to play model even though Germany may have come up with it first.
I base the popularity of it in the west by how many examples of high budget, top production value (so-called AAA) titles are in production now. Not a completely fair measure certainly.
Certainly many lower budget, crowd funded titles, such a Crowfall, Camelot Unchained, and Shroud of the Avatar have either been released or are soon to be released.Edited by bellanca6561n on December 10, 2016 3:52PM0 -
Ishammael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭God_flakes wrote: »Yeah...try as I may I can't care about the "fifth largest market" or Korean preferences. I don't think that's an indicator of how popular MMo's are or how popular Eso is.
Jauriel, I'm not really sure why you are so intent on denying this. People posted hard numbers for you to look at.
If you really need proof that PvP is the way to go, take a gander at the top 100 steam games or something.
LoL is absolutely the #1 game right now. Just look at how many developers have tried to copy it -- Valve, Blizz, etc.
Candy Crush and similar games are not really in the same class. Those handset games are for metro or bus rides, or when you have 10 mins to kill4 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CU is the future and anyone who disagrees can go away! >:(
My thought is that anyone who agrees will go away.RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »1. Invest in re-writing the game engine to better handle such a load on it as well as the server side netcode
I suspect that there might be such an effort happening in the background. If they insist they are fixing it, and are tired of peeling back onion layers, addressing the core technology is necessary. Sometimes, to get more power, you have to stop tweaking the engine and 'replace' it.God_flakes wrote: »Yeah...try as I may I can't care about the "fifth largest market" or Korean preferences. I don't think that's an indicator of how popular MMo's are or how popular Eso is.
I have to agree. The markets above it are more significant. This is why recent Chinese rulings are interesting. The Korean market has to be placed in context of the others, which is 5th place, behind 4 others, one of which is native to the ESO development team, and three of them are direct target markets for ESO.XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus1 -
arkansas_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭God_flakes wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »God_flakes wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »God_flakes wrote: »PvP literally sells games. I don't understand how people/devs can be so completely blind to this. The only thing I can think of for ESO is that they know their servers cannot handle a large PvP population so they intentionally neglect it. Every top streamer/game on twitch does PvP aside from some players in wow and that is more of a prestige thing because being in a top PvE guild in WoW is actually an accomplishment. ESO is literally bottom of the barrel when it comes to Twitch, and even there at that bottom if you watch some streams you will see so many people come in asking if they should get the game or saying they are new to the game and ask for tips. If ESO promoted on Twitch at all, and made PvP a real focus IMO you would see that happen more often. It's literally free advertising, but they've been advertising a broken game.
Exactly.
What is the number one most popular video game right now?
League of legends.
It has one map, one super simple set of rules.
But they continually update it for balance and freshness.
It is PvP.
All the top games on twitch or youtube are PvP.
WoW is an absolute anaomoly in terms of PvE content that drives sales. In fact, hundreds of games across a decade tried to copy this and failed.
I'm afraid I need something resembling proof that LOL is #1 rn......
http://www.gametrics.com/
Use Google Translate and then look at the list in the top right corner. This list shows the most played games at internet cafes in Korea. Notice that #1 and #2, Overwatch and League of Legends, are both focused around PVP.
Forgive me, but why should I care what's #1 in Korea?
https://newzoo.com/insights/rankings/top-100-countries-by-game-revenues/
It's the fifth largest market for video games in terms of revenue and a good indicator of where the industry in general is headingarkansas_ESO wrote: »Sugaroverdose wrote: »
It's not that simple, in every mmo you can 1vX only because you know better how to counter what and "how to gotcha those guy" also in ESO you know in what moment you need to breakfree and when it's better to CC, what ultimate to use, which skills are useless in particular figh which is also considers as skillarkansas_ESO wrote: »Ghost-Shot wrote: »Honestly I think its because the game play is just so dull, most MMO players I know are looking for a game where skillful play is heavily rewarded and that just doesn't exist here. When you combine dull game play with stagnant PvP and mediocre at best PvE you aren't going to have a huge following.
Isn't "a MMO where skillful play is heavily rewarded" kind of an oxymoron? When you think of "MMO", it's all about progression, from the 48-man groups in Everquest farming rare drops, to us running vCOH 100+ times for the weapon we want in the trait we want, to grinding engrams or whatever it is you do in Destiny.
This focus on progression is antithetical to competitive play, because whoever has grinded more will win more, ex. if I'm the only max CP character in a campaign I'm going to stomp everybody else, if I've grinded for this super rare sword that does triple the damage of anybody else's swords I'm going to have a huge advantage going into each fight, etc. Compare this to a competitive title like Overwatch, where there's zero things to grind, ex. as a max level player my gun will do the exact same amount of damage as somebody who is at level one.
The whole point of a competitive game is that everybody is on the same playing field in terms of raw stats (damage, health, etc.) and who wins and who loses all comes down to skillful play, ex. who has better aim, who has better positioning, etc., and the whole point of an MMO is that you can have a raw stat advantage because you've played more than the other guy.
I'm not trying to say that there isn't any skill involved in ESO PVP, just that there isn't much, and gear and levels plays a greater part. If you don't believe me, put green CP10 gear on your CP160 character, only use 300 CP, and then try to 1vX. You'll notice it's substantially harder.
I imagine it'd be a lot like playing a CS match with a glock vs an ak47
The difference between CS:GO and ESO is that in CS:GO you have to rebuy your weapons and armor at the start of every round, so saving your money by only using a pistol in one round so that you can have a better weapon the next round is a viable strategy. The "match economy" is a pretty big part of CS:GO: http://team-dignitas.net/articles/blogs/CSGO/5739/A-guide-to-understanding-the-CSGO-economy-and-moneymaking
In comparison, ESO doesn't do things like make you re-upgrade your gear to gold at the start of every campaign cycle, so there's really no reason to save your money for the next "round." You should grind the BiS gear, you should grind up enough upgrade materials to make it all gold, and then you'll use that gear until ZOS introduces something better, and then you start the grind all over again.
Yeah...try as I may I can't care about the "fifth largest market" or Korean preferences. I don't think that's an indicator of how popular MMo's are or how popular Eso is.
Fair enough. Take a look at Steam's top games by current player count: http://store.steampowered.com/stats/
Every one of the top ten games has some form of PVP, and at least half of them prioritize PVP over PVE. Zero of these games are MMOs, with the closest thing being Warframe, which is a "shared space shooter."ＦＯＲＵＭＰＬＡＲ
Grand Overlord 25/8/170 -
AzuraKin✭✭✭✭✭caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »Early reviews were (rightfully) bad, it's not TES in the traditional sense, not really an MMO in the traditional sense either. ESO is its own thing and can be pretty challenging to get into when you're brand new. I know that a combination of the above is mostly what has turned off my RL friends.
They have basically removed the challenging aspect from the game though. I'm not trying to totally knock the game I spend far too much time in it. However, PVE was never challenging, and they have more or less removed most aspects of skill from PVP. You either hit r to win or jam another ability and gap closer to win. Cyrodiil is basically the bridge and both mile gates. Then there are two sides to the argument of small group vs organized group pvp... Which again is more rush into each other and mash buttons.
I agree with you that it is not TES and not MMO. I'll also agree that when functioning properly, there are brief Windows where it's truly fun and engaging, but in my opinion, the game has more or less devolved into and electronic slot machine, where we all mindlessly tap a button in hopes of flashing lights and AP numbers scrolling across our screen. My friends I've made and the now about nonexistent rush I used to get from playing are the only reasons I log in anymore.
Added: Honestly having played this long I'm more surprised that not more people have left the game.
before eso, i came from a very slow paced, laid back sort of game. and i had no issues getting into eso.v160 spellsword (nightblade)
v160 restoration archmage (Templar)
v160 battlemage (sorcerer)
v160 restoration archmage (Templar)
v160 warrior (DragonKnight)
v160 assassin (nightblade)
v160 swordsman (sorcerer)
v160 spellsword (nightblade)0 -
RadioheadSh0t✭✭✭✭✭I'm not going to sift through all the comments, but I'll just put in my $.02, coming from someone who picked this game up primarily for PvP.
This game turned off a lot of PvP players. I ran a guild for an early part of the game, and played regularly until not long after Decibel ended. I saw countless players come to this game and leave over that time. Bugs, lag, the FPS drop, imbalance, are just some of the reasons those players left.
Some players picked up the game and got infinite batswarmed enough times to quit. Some players couldn't deal with the FPS drop and quit. Some people got tired of the lack of investment into PvP development and quit. Many people were MASSIVELY, MASSIVELY disappointed with IC and quit (I know that's when I stopped playing regularly). There are multitudes of reasons, and that's the main reason more people don't play this game.
More people don't play this game because enough people have been given enough reasons to quit.Aldonius Direnni - Vet Altmer Sorc (AD)
Tyrus Telvanni - Vet Dunmer DK (AD)
Al Donius Bundy - Vet Imperial NB (AD)
Aldonius Brutus - Vet Orc DK (DC)3 -
bosmern_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭A lot of PvPers left because how little Zenimax cares for Cyrodiil, and how they don't even think about how major changes effect how Cyrodiil is.
Thats how we got to a proc and zerg friendly meta where there is almost no possible way to small group or 1vX.~Thallen~1 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I played last night for the first time in a month and.... yeah I'm not surprised more people don't play. All other BS aside, why is there still crippling lag this far into the game and with such a small population?
Why were my healers crashed to desktop upon Rez and then put back in a 60 person queue?
Why is the destro ult a thing?
Etc.Edited by Satiar on December 10, 2016 6:11PMVehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost0 -
Yiko✭✭✭✭✭I'm sure you would have rather dodged every single attack instead. Actually having to deal with enemies landing attacks must be truly annoying.
I mean if I had the choice to take lethal damage or not take lethal damage, I would choose to not take lethal damage.
If more than 1 jesus beam is on a target, cloak breaks instantly. It's nasty.
The screenshot was from a few months back. Biggest problem in PVP atm is armor playing the game rather than actual players. Issue is exacerbated by stealth mechanics. It's silly to me that a player can light attack me and hit (viper, veli, poison, widowmaker) 19k+ damage. How can a design team be THIS inept?
Edited by Yiko on December 10, 2016 7:02PM6 -
Sugaroverdose✭✭✭✭✭
More people has left this game cause ZoS trying to make pokemon go from it.LeifErickson wrote: »Yes I know this game has its problems, but I feel like this game offers something very unique, competitive, and fun. I have never played a game with such a fantastic combat system that (balance aside) is highly skill based and competitive. What is it that makes this game so unpopular?0 -
Torbschka✭✭✭✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »Sugaroverdose wrote: »
It's not that simple, in every mmo you can 1vX only because you know better how to counter what and "how to gotcha those guy" also in ESO you know in what moment you need to breakfree and when it's better to CC, what ultimate to use, which skills are useless in particular figh which is also considers as skillarkansas_ESO wrote: »Ghost-Shot wrote: »Honestly I think its because the game play is just so dull, most MMO players I know are looking for a game where skillful play is heavily rewarded and that just doesn't exist here. When you combine dull game play with stagnant PvP and mediocre at best PvE you aren't going to have a huge following.
Isn't "a MMO where skillful play is heavily rewarded" kind of an oxymoron? When you think of "MMO", it's all about progression, from the 48-man groups in Everquest farming rare drops, to us running vCOH 100+ times for the weapon we want in the trait we want, to grinding engrams or whatever it is you do in Destiny.
This focus on progression is antithetical to competitive play, because whoever has grinded more will win more, ex. if I'm the only max CP character in a campaign I'm going to stomp everybody else, if I've grinded for this super rare sword that does triple the damage of anybody else's swords I'm going to have a huge advantage going into each fight, etc. Compare this to a competitive title like Overwatch, where there's zero things to grind, ex. as a max level player my gun will do the exact same amount of damage as somebody who is at level one.
The whole point of a competitive game is that everybody is on the same playing field in terms of raw stats (damage, health, etc.) and who wins and who loses all comes down to skillful play, ex. who has better aim, who has better positioning, etc., and the whole point of an MMO is that you can have a raw stat advantage because you've played more than the other guy.
I'm not trying to say that there isn't any skill involved in ESO PVP, just that there isn't much, and gear and levels plays a greater part. If you don't believe me, put green CP10 gear on your CP160 character, only use 300 CP, and then try to 1vX. You'll notice it's substantially harder.
This is a guy Form ps4 EU, saw him first when he had 200cp killing 1v3, there is skill involved I guess lol
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eL8AkiC5hhA
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Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Most 1vX skill is having the right build.Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost1 -
grkkll✭✭✭✭I've played all the Elder scrolls and loved every one of them, Oblivion being my favourite....or maybe Skyrim....no Oblivion. Anyway, took part in the ES Beta which was so bad I didn't bother when the game came out. When GAME advertised ESOL for £10 I thought, OK then and loved the early PVE questing and grinding. After about 3 months and rank 50 then 200+ CP I thought.."time to go to Cyrodil and PvP"......OK I left it a bit late but after a week of being blatted by sneaks with big sticks I have to say I am totally disenchanted with the PvP aspect of the game. I played WoW back in 2006 but as a casual gamer who doesn't sit for hours on end playing the game I found that from rank 70ish on it was no fun at all as everything was geared towards group dungeons and quests. This is where ES scores, you can drop in for 1/2 hour and enjoy the game but the PvP in Cyrodil is total pants0
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God_flakes✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've played all the Elder scrolls and loved every one of them, Oblivion being my favourite....or maybe Skyrim....no Oblivion. Anyway, took part in the ES Beta which was so bad I didn't bother when the game came out. When GAME advertised ESOL for £10 I thought, OK then and loved the early PVE questing and grinding. After about 3 months and rank 50 then 200+ CP I thought.."time to go to Cyrodil and PvP"......OK I left it a bit late but after a week of being blatted by sneaks with big sticks I have to say I am totally disenchanted with the PvP aspect of the game. I played WoW back in 2006 but as a casual gamer who doesn't sit for hours on end playing the game I found that from rank 70ish on it was no fun at all as everything was geared towards group dungeons and quests. This is where ES scores, you can drop in for 1/2 hour and enjoy the game but the PvP in Cyrodil is total pants
Lmao@ "total pants"!0 -
Jaronking✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sometimes it surprises me how many people still PVP in this game and how I am one of them.1 -
zuto40✭✭✭✭✭Stamblade- Legate
Tank/Heals Templar- Sergeant
Magic DK- Corporal
Stam DK- Sergeant
Stamplar- Corporal
YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCy8uqORxhlrMh8oz2230s9g0 -
Lettigall✭✭✭✭✭
✭At the begging ESO was PvP/PvE game, now it's PvE game with weird cousin named Cyrodiil! ESO is not a game for peeps who just want pvp, existing players know it and potential new players, after doing some research, know it too. Lag, armor sets, that took skill out of combat and stale content are nails in PvP coffin!
ZoS has given up on PvP thus given up on portion of playerbase.Some men just want to watch the world burn... I just want a cold beer!1
