danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's an execute...
It's not the best and honestly if more ppl played a magic NB(they do and then ppl feel stamina is better) that execute is just as awesome

Actually that one is ranged and instant vs radiant being channeled

Impale can be dodged and actually has a pretty common bug right now where it just doesn't connect with anything without giving any feedback. It's also less than half the range (15m vs nearly 40 in Cyro) and doesn't benefit from Cyrodiil's increased range on 25m+ abilities.

I take it you're not taking your own advice about playing a magicka NB.

So impale is stronger against magicka-builds (bc they cannot permadodge) and radiant is stronger against stambuilds (bc they have no shields)...sounds kinda balanced to me...

I agree it's fine too
I think the whole issue with these types of discussions is that the game doesn't seperate PvE from PvP in the effects of skills and passives

It is what it is tho
It's not like all Templars are going around one or two shoting people

Oddly enough with all the complaints NB's do go around one and two shoting ppl

Funny that's it's a balance issue but Templars have no speed boost, no stealth to increase crits and have to get you down to 25% whereas a NB can get you to 25% before you know they're on you

IMO the biggest problem with these discussions with relation to PVP is that people think balance is everyone having the SAME THING. Just b/c one class gets a stronger execute, doesn't mean it's OP or that it needs a nerf. That other class is going to have a significant advantage in another category.

Just like you're saying, NBs have their own advantages that make up for not having the same execute that templars have.

@Kutsuu
Let me be fair I really don't PvP. I go in for PvE stuff
BUT

(Not saying you are)There's a huge difference in a NB complaining about a Templar especially in PvP when a NB with basic gear and just max skills can jump on a Templar and take us from 100% to less than 50% consistently.

The skilled folks knock Templars down to 50% in one shot and then stun or knock us down, so in 3-4 hits you go from being out of combat to dead.

NB group says that Templars are OP who use radiant but there's not one video of a Templar surprise attacking a NB....knocking them to 50% or less in one or two shots and then using the execute and it kills them

That doesn't happen so I can't agree that each has their own benefits
I also do not consider balance as equal opportunities.

I'm also not crying saying NB need a nerf.
I do cry about healing nerf tho but yeah.....NB has the upper hand over any Templar unless they aren't in stealth. Then the fight changes but the NB can go in stealth during a fight....so then it's back to their advantage

You don't PVP so am just going help you out and correct you.If you know what you doing and wearing Impenetrable no NB in basic gear and max skill won't knock you down to 50%.Unless you just ran from keep keep on foot that's the only way their going to one shot you.

Only way a *skilled*NB is going to 3-4 shot you on a magplar is with proc sets and that's proc sets that broken.Not to mentioned that will only work if your out of stam to break free.If your out of stam that's no one fault but your own.

Your next statement clearly show you don't know what your talking about their multiple videos of people from stealth 1-2 shooting players.Its Dark flare from stealth Javelin than RD your dead.Its the basic combo and it will kill just about anything from NB to DK to magsorc.

Only advantage a NB has over a Templar is stealth and incap.Dark cloak is extremely broken right now and your spammable will bring a NB out of cloak so stealth is gone in a NB.Magplar and templars in general has better healing a better execute decent magic sustained. Magplar has way more advantages than any NB.

Like you said you don't PVP so your opinion on the subject should be ignored.

@Jaronking

Woah there....let's not jump to conclusions just because you "think" or have assumed something About another player especially on the forums.
Just because I don't PvP much doesn't mean I don't PvP.

Let's understand I've been playing since early 2013 on two platforms
Let's also understand that I don't need help understanding how the skills and effects work as well as what's broken or working different than it may read or what is assumed


It's straight forward....
Regardless of how I'm using the term or how your using the term "skilled" it's always an assumption because no one can inspect others.
The reality is this....a NB does have the upper hand over a Templar in PvP so what many are experiencing is logic based positioning so that they can remove as many NB advantages as possible to better position themselves to win

The reality also is that there isn't an absolute that only certain "skilled" players can do this or that.
Anyone whose played this game for three years has had the experience of killing and being killed. Also getting revenge and who can read should be able to make adjustments to their opposition

The point I'm making is....don't jump on me making assumptions just because my play style isn't focused on PvP builds or playing PvP more than PvE. Because we are forced to complete PvE achievements in PvP campaigns...after three years I've had more than my experiences in PvP and like anyone else, we have to adapt regardless of preference

What's really irritating about how you've made your comment towards me is this.....
Your whole idea is that because someone plays PvE they don't know what they're talking about. It suggests that you've decided that you're the expect and that their comments should be ignored (you literally wrote that)


Last I checked we all have the same gear, skills, effects and champion points so here's a point of view.
If you are dying to a Templar and you're a NB maybe.....you've got some things you could learn cause when I'm out there many NB's aren't struggling to kill me and 2 or three others.

Consider I'm not even changing my skills for a PvP interaction and can kill others but if it's a NB, them understanding who and when to attack is their advantage and Templars do not measure up to surprise attacks compared to a NB

Also if you get into execute range with anyone, regardless of the skill....you're at the disadvantage so if you die ...that's how the game is designed

But just chill out on jumping all over people they way you did cause in your comments there are things you're writing that are not absolutes. In what I wrote that you quoted, the NB parts are absolutes for my perspective which is what I clarified in my comments.

You can't assume everyone is playing in these certain meta builds and therefore your comments as a PvP gory is what's going on cause that's not correct. Also if you're really into PvP, you have to gain a full understanding of PvE builds too because if you're facing groups...especially of Templars and they have some PvP and PvE mixes in there....you're approach won't work as you have wrote it out.

I don't know you. You might be a great player in your own right.

Still ... I'd wager money that Jaronking would melt you in about 3 seconds while eating a cheeseburger and walking his dog.

Hey Jaron ... I got Stratforge last night with my wacky Velidreth Magplar. I'm coming for you soon. Haha. You are on the list!

@danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO

Well I'm a Templar and perhaps Jaron would be on a NB
I'd hope they'd melt me cause I'm out here grabbing skyshards and town quests. Overall I'll group up to raise my ao to level as I'm only there for skill points


BUT if we were to cross paths and I win even once...can I create a name shaming thread with a video?
(Kidding as it's against forum rules but my comment is all in fun)

Braved PVP last night as a PVE Templar healer. Honestly, the Beam was only useful if I happened to see, and could get it to attach to, someone who was nearly done for anyway. (Not sure how the hell anyone can keep track of anything in all that mess to begin with. So much chaos on the bridge... o.O)

timidobserver wrote: »

RD has a lot of fake overkill damage. By overkill, I mean like a 20-30k tick on someone with 1000 health left. When people see that overkill damage on their death recap they freak out.

Death recap is riddled with issues like this that cause people to whine. Dots adding up to a total damage dealt is also a really big one. Then there's the fact that it gives you no timeline. IMO that's why we occasionally see a "nerf poison injection" thread. They see like 15k damage in their recap (which was done over 10 seconds) and think it executed them for 15k in 1 tick.

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Messy1 wrote: »

So some ganked group should consist of 10 stealth ed Templars and one of the uses javelin to knock opponent down the the other 9 pop RD . . . toast

It will be enough to have 2, with rotation Dark flare+javelin+RD to instagib almost anyone.

No, you don't want to just kill the character you want to incinerate them. Lol, I know what I was calling for is a little overkill, but it would be funny.

Wing wrote: »

Radiant is:
-max range
-un dodgeable
-starts scaling its execute damage really early
-double dips in CP (like a lot of Templar DPS skills actually)
-does okay damage before the execute even starts
-is unreflectable ranged damage
-its more reliable then Templars other damage abilities because of its difficulty to counter, thus its the one they use most.

because of this its spammed in Cyrodil, as it is very easy to use and very hard to break/counter. so you can end up being hit my multiple max range beams at once that deal increasing amount of damage until your simply dead.

the counter of "bash them" is not practical in standard cyrodil gameplay, breaking it with line of sight is also not practical in most cases, blocking slows you down thus opening you up for being attacked by the rest of the enemy force so is therefore also not practical.

TL:DR
-Its stupidly effective and easy to use.
-Its stupidly hard to actually counter.

Also can't be broken with LOS

Well I had not seen any lately until you made this one. So I wonder what was the true reason for the thread.

All you need to do is compare it to other executes. I don't think it needs nerfed, I don't think anything does.

But comparing it to other executes it is not hard to see why some really dislike it.

EvilCroc wrote: »

Never mind, just silly PvP'ers whining. Great skill to burn down bosses.

This was going thru my head the whole time I'm scrolling. These whiney PvP'ers need to just learn to accept a gank and move on. There are PLENTY of other builds and finishers out there that can gank, don't pick on this one because you got your feathers in a ruffle....

Jaronking wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's an execute...
It's not the best and honestly if more ppl played a magic NB(they do and then ppl feel stamina is better) that execute is just as awesome

Actually that one is ranged and instant vs radiant being channeled

Impale can be dodged and actually has a pretty common bug right now where it just doesn't connect with anything without giving any feedback. It's also less than half the range (15m vs nearly 40 in Cyro) and doesn't benefit from Cyrodiil's increased range on 25m+ abilities.

I take it you're not taking your own advice about playing a magicka NB.

So impale is stronger against magicka-builds (bc they cannot permadodge) and radiant is stronger against stambuilds (bc they have no shields)...sounds kinda balanced to me...

I agree it's fine too
I think the whole issue with these types of discussions is that the game doesn't seperate PvE from PvP in the effects of skills and passives

It is what it is tho
It's not like all Templars are going around one or two shoting people

Oddly enough with all the complaints NB's do go around one and two shoting ppl

Funny that's it's a balance issue but Templars have no speed boost, no stealth to increase crits and have to get you down to 25% whereas a NB can get you to 25% before you know they're on you

IMO the biggest problem with these discussions with relation to PVP is that people think balance is everyone having the SAME THING. Just b/c one class gets a stronger execute, doesn't mean it's OP or that it needs a nerf. That other class is going to have a significant advantage in another category.

Just like you're saying, NBs have their own advantages that make up for not having the same execute that templars have.

@Kutsuu
Let me be fair I really don't PvP. I go in for PvE stuff
BUT

(Not saying you are)There's a huge difference in a NB complaining about a Templar especially in PvP when a NB with basic gear and just max skills can jump on a Templar and take us from 100% to less than 50% consistently.

The skilled folks knock Templars down to 50% in one shot and then stun or knock us down, so in 3-4 hits you go from being out of combat to dead.

NB group says that Templars are OP who use radiant but there's not one video of a Templar surprise attacking a NB....knocking them to 50% or less in one or two shots and then using the execute and it kills them

That doesn't happen so I can't agree that each has their own benefits
I also do not consider balance as equal opportunities.

I'm also not crying saying NB need a nerf.
I do cry about healing nerf tho but yeah.....NB has the upper hand over any Templar unless they aren't in stealth. Then the fight changes but the NB can go in stealth during a fight....so then it's back to their advantage

You don't PVP so am just going help you out and correct you.If you know what you doing and wearing Impenetrable no NB in basic gear and max skill won't knock you down to 50%.Unless you just ran from keep keep on foot that's the only way their going to one shot you.

Only way a *skilled*NB is going to 3-4 shot you on a magplar is with proc sets and that's proc sets that broken.Not to mentioned that will only work if your out of stam to break free.If your out of stam that's no one fault but your own.

Your next statement clearly show you don't know what your talking about their multiple videos of people from stealth 1-2 shooting players.Its Dark flare from stealth Javelin than RD your dead.Its the basic combo and it will kill just about anything from NB to DK to magsorc.

Only advantage a NB has over a Templar is stealth and incap.Dark cloak is extremely broken right now and your spammable will bring a NB out of cloak so stealth is gone in a NB.Magplar and templars in general has better healing a better execute decent magic sustained. Magplar has way more advantages than any NB.

Like you said you don't PVP so your opinion on the subject should be ignored.

@Jaronking

Woah there....let's not jump to conclusions just because you "think" or have assumed something About another player especially on the forums.
Just because I don't PvP much doesn't mean I don't PvP.

Let's understand I've been playing since early 2013 on two platforms
Let's also understand that I don't need help understanding how the skills and effects work as well as what's broken or working different than it may read or what is assumed


It's straight forward....
Regardless of how I'm using the term or how your using the term "skilled" it's always an assumption because no one can inspect others.
The reality is this....a NB does have the upper hand over a Templar in PvP so what many are experiencing is logic based positioning so that they can remove as many NB advantages as possible to better position themselves to win

The reality also is that there isn't an absolute that only certain "skilled" players can do this or that.
Anyone whose played this game for three years has had the experience of killing and being killed. Also getting revenge and who can read should be able to make adjustments to their opposition

The point I'm making is....don't jump on me making assumptions just because my play style isn't focused on PvP builds or playing PvP more than PvE. Because we are forced to complete PvE achievements in PvP campaigns...after three years I've had more than my experiences in PvP and like anyone else, we have to adapt regardless of preference

What's really irritating about how you've made your comment towards me is this.....
Your whole idea is that because someone plays PvE they don't know what they're talking about. It suggests that you've decided that you're the expect and that their comments should be ignored (you literally wrote that)


Last I checked we all have the same gear, skills, effects and champion points so here's a point of view.
If you are dying to a Templar and you're a NB maybe.....you've got some things you could learn cause when I'm out there many NB's aren't struggling to kill me and 2 or three others.

Consider I'm not even changing my skills for a PvP interaction and can kill others but if it's a NB, them understanding who and when to attack is their advantage and Templars do not measure up to surprise attacks compared to a NB

Also if you get into execute range with anyone, regardless of the skill....you're at the disadvantage so if you die ...that's how the game is designed

But just chill out on jumping all over people they way you did cause in your comments there are things you're writing that are not absolutes. In what I wrote that you quoted, the NB parts are absolutes for my perspective which is what I clarified in my comments.

You can't assume everyone is playing in these certain meta builds and therefore your comments as a PvP gory is what's going on cause that's not correct. Also if you're really into PvP, you have to gain a full understanding of PvE builds too because if you're facing groups...especially of Templars and they have some PvP and PvE mixes in there....you're approach won't work as you have wrote it out.

I didn't assume anything you said yourself I don't PVP.That's no assumption its what you said.Its not a assumption its a fact when you said it.

Honestly from what it seems you don't understand how abilities work because they work differently in PvP and their abilities that are useful in pve that would get you killed using in PVP.

As I pointed out the reality of how it is in PVP is that Nb don't have that many advantages in PVP I told in my last post the only 2 advantages we have and one of them is broken.On a stamblade all we have is Incap since you can purge major facture from SA and if you running heavy it won't do much damage as most Magplar use now.Templars have a in class purge,Major mending,a burst heal,A spammable that goes through dodge roll ,A execute that starts at 50% and doesn't break on LOS always and have a very long range.Templars have way more advantage then a magic or stamblade has.Those are facts when it comes.to PVP. Only time a NB has any kind of advantage is when they ganking and even then it can be countered.

Am not saying people who only PVE don't know what their talking about but when it comes to balancing abilities they don't.For example most PVErs counter argument to nerfing broken proc sets is "don't Nerf them because they loom cool".Yea when that's one of.your arguments I tend not to listen to them.when it comes to balancing.Yes your comment should be ignored when we are talking about PVP balancing because majority of the team Pvers like yourself argue against adjustments just because it would help.improve PVP.

Answer this @NewBlacksmurf what hard mode trial's have you completed? If any at all?Have you done VMA?

Hey am sure I could 1VX you and you friends easy I do it multiple times a day.Ask @danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO I have 1vX and 2VX members of his old guild.Hey if you get your health to 30% and someone hit you with RD your Dead 8/10.So when your getting XV1 that group get you low health you try to heal back up you can't because of RD your dead.On a Templar all I have to do is stand in the back throw a BOL and when he get below 45% just Spam RD and that player dead.

Like I said with all your advantages Magplar have against a Stamblade if you can't kill.one which just so happen is the squishest class in the game that's because your not a good player.Break free BOL back to full health.Like I said if you can't kill a NB that's because you not a good PVP.

Actually RD and mages wrath are one of the only 2 Execute that pretty much give a guarantee kill.

No what you put in your comments where not absolute they were you opinions of how things work not.how they actually work.What I wrote is what actually would occur in PVP on a daily basis.

Well I have done every hard mode PVE trial but VMOL on my stam sorc and Magblade same on my magplar soon I know PVE builds pretty well am not sure we can say the same about you.9 times out of 10 my approach works because I actually know what am doing and how PVP works and not just sayings things to have a argument.

@Jaronking

Aight let's make sure you're comprehending my comments

Respectfully: I consider your comments that you've made a bunch of assumptions and even still are in your most recent comments. That's where I'm coming from O K


Why:
When someone writes that they don't PvP and it's followed by context of doing PvE in the PvP zones it shouldn't cause you to think or assume that player has never been in Cyrodil or Imperial City or even that they've never dueled.

In context it often means that they do not go out and fight other players intentionally.
Heck, as far as you know it could also mean they do siege runs or something else.

Regardless of what it means, it shouldn't be assumed and therefore you should never decide (everything you say should be ignored)
There are also parts of your comments that I'm not responding to because it's way off topic and I feel (right or wrong) that's you're attempting to further prove those assumptions rather that seeking to understand what my comment is and possibly to consider that after understanding what I'm sharing, it should allow us to better discuss our own ideas.
.....
About skills
........

-The skills and their effects in general apply based on the condition.
The skills and effects many times don't change for PvP from PvE and the impact differs because of the circumstances and on skill by skill cases some skills may perform slightly different in PvE vs PvP but the tool tips don't change so that makes them all based on situation and intent.

Even in consideration of the specifics skill effects (those that may change it the circumstance allows)...but one thing for sure, I really feel your comments back to me show a lot of assuming and basing things off how you assume people are playing. That's causing a huge disconnect in our discussion between you and I

---

Framing my comments better

---

Regardless on what's on my bars and the gear, two or even 5 Templars with the exact same setup aren't playing the same.
That same set up is going to have different effects and results per person and then per interaction
From there it will also differ depending upon who they are playing with or if they are alone

(Here is what I'd argue and from my experiences)
If you are playing a NB in PvP vs a Templar point blank the NB has the advantage. It's this simple....you can't attack what you can't always target. So regardless of all other skills, as a NB you can out maneuver a Templar regardless of race and gear

That's the advantage and then let's also add in that a NB in the middle of combat and literally stealth out and come back with a huge crit attack. Regardless of build, it's basic NB skills and regardless of the Templar skills or magelight, etc. the NB can straight go dark and then come in and smack a Templar so it's a clear defined advantage

That's how it's designed.
So in terms of framing a situation...let's understand the above in terms of a 1vs1

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Your comments about PvE doesn't K ow what they're talking about....

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So that we are having the same conversation within the same context....
That comment followed by your next statements is largely innacurate. In my last comment I'm attempting to share and clarify again as I've done above that the skills, the effects and tool tips for the most part are the same. The person controlling each differs and results in different circumstances but that's going to go back and forth depending upon whose operating each and how they came across one another.

The reality is this....someone like myself who problably spends too much time on the forums and third party sites reading up on many different ideas, changes, polls and such. As well as who plays at least 4-5 days a week isn't at any disadvantage in their comprehension and understanding of how to play the game. That's regardless of being in PvE or PvP because collectively a lot of this discussions is around a class that I'd argue that I'm fairly advanced in. That being a Templar. As such I decided over two years ago to make both a stamina NB and a magic NB with various builds to figure out how they work best and to understand some things so I could get along in my travels in PvE and PvP.

I've also leveled and deleted up to VR2 in the old setup a two sorcs, two DKs
For me it was mostly about understanding how to play with all so I could group better as I'm more focused on PvE group content.

Regarding your question on vMSA. I've played it on different classes, mostly on a Templar and gotten a decent way on Vet but I honestly hate solo stuff in this game so after learning there's no skill points there, the constant bugs and crashing and over 6 months of not being able to go to my characters without opening tickets each week in Orsinium...I stopped playing it. I'll leave it at that. This is a discussion about Templar execute and a NB execute

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Regarding your comments on K owing what your doing and all that you wrote being accurate cause you've played hard modes ans well as playing PvP

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You decided early on....this person's comments should be ignored....so your comments back are literally ignoring every context of my comments. So much so that's you're arguing vs reading

Those assumptions are how you're justifying that only you are right and anything I write is just off base.
Have you considered that there's quite a few ways to be really good in both PvE and PvP
Can you consider that even in PvP that you surely play more often that I, that there's a likelihood that your experiences are based on circumstance and it's possible that there are a few situations that you haven't had

Just literally because you have not been playing PvP and PvE since 2013?
You lack the context of things prior....so the game in the current state and the players you face aren't all the same that others face

That being in PvE and PvP

Rinning solo in the middle of an open field with no trees. Get hit by a dark flare and im at 70% hp, turn around and there are 3 magplars who have all started to beam me. I Vigor and Rally and ambush at the closest one , bas and drop incap with the nb burst that should be my class advantage right ( without procs mind you). He blockcast a Bol and goes from 70% health back up to full. Meanwhile the 2 beams have kept my health from rising. I Vigor and turn to see that the 1 I attacked has backed up and the other 2 have formed a triangle around me. At this point they literally just beamed me for the next 10 seconds while I try to block/rally/Vigor, hike all 3 of them continue to back up in their respective directions. Tried a desperation cloak which to any who main nb know breaks the beam but doesn't make you invisible, which the templars reacted to with another round of beams. At that point I had no stam and I just fell over and died. At the end of the day they were either very bad or trolling, either way they should not have been able to kill me with pure executes, not to mention in a way that never placed any in danger. No other executes in the game could kill you like that. Maybe if cloak worked correctly I'd have no argument here but it does not. And imo if I'm better than those 3 players I should have been able to have some counterplay and pull off a victory. Instead 3 subpar players killed me because mechanics didn't allow me to beat them. Templars can use Sweeps through dodgeroll already so why do they need Radiant doing the same thing