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Maybe it's time to make every race available to every alliance?
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alexkdd99✭✭✭✭✭
✭antihero727 wrote: »Kaizokugari wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Kaizokugari wrote: »I was aware of the race change but wasn't aware it let's you stay in your first alliance.
If I understood this correctly, you can pay a sum to make a Nord dragonknight to play for the AD? Well, if this is not P2W, I don't know what is.
I don't think you understand this game.
There is an unlock depending on the version of the game you own or a crown store option that allows us to create any character under any alliance faction.
It's been this way at PC launch and before a crown store.
Not sure if the intent of this post unless people aren't aware that this has been an option at purchase included in the price. If you chose poorly it's an added cost.
At the time the Imperial edition included all of this
Question then: does this payed service gives you any advantage at all against a player who has not payed for the service?
No. You can still pick those races without purchasing anything. The only race you can not pick with base game is imperial, which if I remember doesn't give anything special comparing to other races.
Your race choices only determine which faction you play in, unless you purchase something to allow you to play that race in a different alliance. You can still pick any race you want with the exception of imperial.antihero727 wrote: »antihero727 wrote: »White wabbit wrote: »Kaizokugari wrote: »I was aware of the race change but wasn't aware it let's you stay in your first alliance.
If I understood this correctly, you can pay a sum to make a Nord dragonknight to play for the AD? Well, if this is not P2W, I don't know what is.
Lol p2w explain to me how that is p2w being able to play a different race in another faction
The game is p2w now.
1-locking dungeons behind paid DLC with the armor now bind on pick up. When non DLC buyers couldn't buy the armor for gold the shift began.
That's not P2W. that's called content and all that goes with that content blocked off from those who did not buy said content.
P2W is there is a super awesome sword of I win in the store. if you don't have said sword you will forever suck large pineapples. The only way to get said sword is through real life money..... that's P2W.
Scathing mage? Veledrith? Spell power cure? all of these are hidden behind a paywall as well as many others.
Lol not this again. So you expect them to only release free content? And actually eso made it so you can still obtain some items from dlc through the golden vendor. Eso is far from p2w no matter what people try to say. When people make these crazy claims it only establishes that they haven't played any truly p2w games.
Do people honestly expect developers to only release free content?
Then don't make the armor bind on pickup and make it sellable, problem solved. I get it's a company to make money but hiding things behind real money is the definition of p2w. Disagree if you want but it just might not be at your gone to far lvl.
What? Might not be at you gone to far lvl?
Pay 2 win would be being able to go to the crown store and buy a vma weapon. That is not the case here, you must complete the content to get the items. Games must progress while not handing items out to people who can't compete the requirement to get the weapon.
I think zos is being more than fair allowing anyone without dlc to get ANY dlc items without purchasing the dlc.
Sorry if you want the newest content and items obtained in that content, you need to pay for it. Stop expecting to get everything for free. No game would be able to support itself if they gave it all away for free.
You can't expect to continually get free updates for years when you probably paid less than 60$ for the game. I honestly don't see how anyone could think that any game should work like that.0 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Prof_Bawbag wrote: »Still amazes me the amount of people who fail to grasp what P2W actually entails. DLC dungeons are not one of them. That's like saying vMA weapons are pay to win because I'm assuming you can't access that without the particular dlc that the arena is attached to. Premium dlc (not to be confused with CS fluff) has always added in new weapons and gear in almost every game i have played.
The most basic definition of Pay to Win is an item or gear locked behind a paywall that significantly increases your effectiveness or performance in game where there is a lack of comparable free alternatives. (That last bit is important.)
Do we disagree on this definition? If that definition is true, then Maelstom weapons could be considered pay to win (depending on your opinion of their effectiveness vs free alternatives) . and your argument that "all games do this" is both irrelevant and non-responsive. All games having P2W aspects does not change the definition. To argue that Maelstrom weapons, (or racial choice) is not P2W, you would have to argue that there are free alternatives that are reasonably as effective across a broad swath of gaming activities. That argument has some merit if you choose to make it, but instead you have chosen to the classic "all other games do it" ZOS apologist defense #239402 which is a lot weaker.
It seems ZOS put a lot of thought into the races in each alliance and every alliance has a decent magicka race, stamina race, and/or tanky race. So you always have comparable and effective racial choices no matter what alliance you pick. So I don't see the P2W on race locking.Edited by Yolokin_Swagonborn on December 8, 2016 9:22PM2 -
Sinthrax✭✭✭✭Why don't they make everything in the crown store free too? I want the bear mount that others have. But I don't want to pay for it like every one else did.......
Just saying....put up the money like EVERYBODY else that has the option did. The things people will complain about. I wish it had been free from the start for everyone. However, it wasn't for anyone...buy it as I did.Edited by Sinthrax on December 9, 2016 2:14AM0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kaizokugari wrote: »I was aware of the race change but wasn't aware it let's you stay in your first alliance.
If I understood this correctly, you can pay a sum to make a Nord dragonknight to play for the AD? Well, if this is not P2W, I don't know what is.
You are correct, you, in fact, do not know, what P2W is.
IF ZOS introduced a new race... let's say Xivkyn, since that's popular lately. Gave it +5%/+10%/+20% to Health, Magicka, and Stamina as one of its racial passives, and stuck it in a crown crate, that would be pay to win.
In fact, if there is a legitimate P2W argument in ESO, it would be the Imperial, with their fantastic health and stamina increases.
A new class that flat out renders an existing class obsolete, that is then restricted to the crates or the store would be pay to win.
A new upgrade tier that is crown store exclusive, and raises your gear to Aqua, would be pay to win.
A Nord isn't pay to win, no matter what flag they're fighting under. Anymore than a Pact Breton, or Covenant Bosmer is.
There might be a legitimate discussion that the way the alliances are split, there's some inherent imbalance to racial distribution, (the dominion get the two stealth races, the pact gets the only dedicated healer race, the covenant gets two tanking races (arguably three)...) Yeah, that's a little bit of a problem, but it's not pay to win.1 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Kaizokugari wrote: »I was aware of the race change but wasn't aware it let's you stay in your first alliance.
If I understood this correctly, you can pay a sum to make a Nord dragonknight to play for the AD? Well, if this is not P2W, I don't know what is.
Edit to remove snarky response.Edited by Bouldercleave on December 9, 2016 2:30AM0 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nope.
If you want any race-any alliance, you can have it for 1900 crowns, thats about $20 if you buy the crowns at full price, or about $10 if you buy them at the sale price.Beta tester November 20130 -
MakoFore✭✭✭✭✭
✭i think this is a must have.
perhaps to balance numbers they could provide incentives for new players to align with certain alliances.
but right now- we have the two strongest stamina classes coming from the same alliance - which results in them consistently having bigger numbers, we ve got the best classes for night blades coming from another alliance- which encourages ganking. its just a boring distribution.
plus i never thought i would care about alliances, but having made friends and guild mates with my alliance- and yet also wanting to make characters of all races- it leaves people in a bind.Edited by MakoFore on December 9, 2016 3:46AM0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
All the time I've been correcting people that no, it does not. It's astonishing that this misconception persists to this day.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »
At the time the Imperial edition included all of this
No, you received the Explorer's Pack for free. The price of the game without the pack was the same as of a pre-order with the pack included, therefore you paid nothing and aren't entitled to a refund. Only people who bought the Adventurer's Pack after it was added to the crown store could argue they deserve compensation.drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »If they do that, I want my Imperial Edition ESO partially refunded. One of the only reason I beta-tested and then jumped on board early by purchasing the Imperial Edition package was to get the "play the Imperial race and any race, any alliance". By providing a refund, if they make this change, then I would happily support this idea. Otherwise, naw...not for you late comers unless you pay for it like the rest of us.
This is a common misconception, but the any race in any alliance was not part of the Imperial Edition. It was an early release bonus. You got this perk simply by pre-ordering, and it didn't matter which version of the game you pre-ordered.
I said I was a pre-order...
I think you may want to refer to: http://gamepreorders.com/the-elder-scrolls-online
"The digital Imperial Edition (available on the official website) is slightly cheaper, and, of course, only includes the digital extras. In addition to the Imperial Edition content, all pre-orders will also get the aforementioned Explorer’s Pack, plus 5-day early access (again, only for PC & Mac)."
If you acknowledge that the any race perk was not part of your Imperial bundle, why would you demand a refund for the Imperial Edition if they make unlock race restrictions for everybody? You are making no sense. That's even worse than the toaster metaphor above. This is more like saying "I bought an oven 2 years ago and have used it every day, but now that you're giving toasters away I want a partial refund".
This just reeks of self-righteous foot stomping.
...I guess you just don't get it. At the time it was included with the Imperial Edition, I had no "opt out", thus considered part of the purchase price if I pre-ordered. Therefore, if I should have received the Imperial Edition at a cost less than the Explorer Pack. Since this option was not given to me at the time, and if ZOS would like to offer this as a base game component, I'd like a partial refund. In essence I paid for the Explorer Pack.
I will refrain from engaging you further as I can clearly see you're trolling me at this point. I am not self-righteous...I am simply "right".
@Rosveen
I think you're mistaken. I'm 100% sure my pre-order of the imperial edition provided me with the explorers pack.
Buying after release doesn't-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Valethar✭✭✭✭Kaizokugari wrote: »Well, if this is not P2W, I don't know what is.
You would be correct in that assessment. You don't know what it is.
Resistance is not futile! Say no to the Greed Collective™. Boycott Crown Crates.2 -
Rosveen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Every pre-order included the Explorer's Pack, both Imperial and standard edition. It clearly hasn't been included with IE "all the time" because it stopped immediately after launch (though the physical copies still contained the code).NewBlacksmurf wrote: »
All the time I've been correcting people that no, it does not. It's astonishing that this misconception persists to this day.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »
At the time the Imperial edition included all of this
No, you received the Explorer's Pack for free. The price of the game without the pack was the same as of a pre-order with the pack included, therefore you paid nothing and aren't entitled to a refund. Only people who bought the Adventurer's Pack after it was added to the crown store could argue they deserve compensation.drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »If they do that, I want my Imperial Edition ESO partially refunded. One of the only reason I beta-tested and then jumped on board early by purchasing the Imperial Edition package was to get the "play the Imperial race and any race, any alliance". By providing a refund, if they make this change, then I would happily support this idea. Otherwise, naw...not for you late comers unless you pay for it like the rest of us.
This is a common misconception, but the any race in any alliance was not part of the Imperial Edition. It was an early release bonus. You got this perk simply by pre-ordering, and it didn't matter which version of the game you pre-ordered.
I said I was a pre-order...
I think you may want to refer to: http://gamepreorders.com/the-elder-scrolls-online
"The digital Imperial Edition (available on the official website) is slightly cheaper, and, of course, only includes the digital extras. In addition to the Imperial Edition content, all pre-orders will also get the aforementioned Explorer’s Pack, plus 5-day early access (again, only for PC & Mac)."
If you acknowledge that the any race perk was not part of your Imperial bundle, why would you demand a refund for the Imperial Edition if they make unlock race restrictions for everybody? You are making no sense. That's even worse than the toaster metaphor above. This is more like saying "I bought an oven 2 years ago and have used it every day, but now that you're giving toasters away I want a partial refund".
This just reeks of self-righteous foot stomping.
...I guess you just don't get it. At the time it was included with the Imperial Edition, I had no "opt out", thus considered part of the purchase price if I pre-ordered. Therefore, if I should have received the Imperial Edition at a cost less than the Explorer Pack. Since this option was not given to me at the time, and if ZOS would like to offer this as a base game component, I'd like a partial refund. In essence I paid for the Explorer Pack.
I will refrain from engaging you further as I can clearly see you're trolling me at this point. I am not self-righteous...I am simply "right".
@Rosveen
I think you're mistaken. I'm 100% sure my pre-order of the imperial edition provided me with the explorers pack.
Buying after release doesn't0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Every pre-order included the Explorer's Pack, both Imperial and standard edition. It clearly hasn't been included with IE "all the time" because it stopped immediately after launch (though the physical copies still contained the code).NewBlacksmurf wrote: »
All the time I've been correcting people that no, it does not. It's astonishing that this misconception persists to this day.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »
At the time the Imperial edition included all of this
No, you received the Explorer's Pack for free. The price of the game without the pack was the same as of a pre-order with the pack included, therefore you paid nothing and aren't entitled to a refund. Only people who bought the Adventurer's Pack after it was added to the crown store could argue they deserve compensation.drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »If they do that, I want my Imperial Edition ESO partially refunded. One of the only reason I beta-tested and then jumped on board early by purchasing the Imperial Edition package was to get the "play the Imperial race and any race, any alliance". By providing a refund, if they make this change, then I would happily support this idea. Otherwise, naw...not for you late comers unless you pay for it like the rest of us.
This is a common misconception, but the any race in any alliance was not part of the Imperial Edition. It was an early release bonus. You got this perk simply by pre-ordering, and it didn't matter which version of the game you pre-ordered.
I said I was a pre-order...
I think you may want to refer to: http://gamepreorders.com/the-elder-scrolls-online
"The digital Imperial Edition (available on the official website) is slightly cheaper, and, of course, only includes the digital extras. In addition to the Imperial Edition content, all pre-orders will also get the aforementioned Explorer’s Pack, plus 5-day early access (again, only for PC & Mac)."
If you acknowledge that the any race perk was not part of your Imperial bundle, why would you demand a refund for the Imperial Edition if they make unlock race restrictions for everybody? You are making no sense. That's even worse than the toaster metaphor above. This is more like saying "I bought an oven 2 years ago and have used it every day, but now that you're giving toasters away I want a partial refund".
This just reeks of self-righteous foot stomping.
...I guess you just don't get it. At the time it was included with the Imperial Edition, I had no "opt out", thus considered part of the purchase price if I pre-ordered. Therefore, if I should have received the Imperial Edition at a cost less than the Explorer Pack. Since this option was not given to me at the time, and if ZOS would like to offer this as a base game component, I'd like a partial refund. In essence I paid for the Explorer Pack.
I will refrain from engaging you further as I can clearly see you're trolling me at this point. I am not self-righteous...I am simply "right".
@Rosveen
I think you're mistaken. I'm 100% sure my pre-order of the imperial edition provided me with the explorers pack.
Buying after release doesn't
Unless you preordered through G2A, because they stripped the EP codes out and sold them separately for $10 a pop.0 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kaizokugari wrote: »Kaizokugari wrote: »No advantage for PvE.
But it gives you advantage in your alliance's class PvP leaderboards for starters.
That's not an advantage.. xD
Better leaderboard position - > better rewards? Above 2% I believe.drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »If they do that, I want my Imperial Edition ESO partially refunded. One of the only reason I beta-tested and then jumped on board early by purchasing the Imperial Edition package was to get the "play the Imperial race and any race, any alliance". By providing a refund, if they make this change, then I would happily support this idea. Otherwise, naw...not for you late comers unless you pay for it like the rest of us.
"I bought a new toaster from your store 2 years ago, I used and enjoyed the [SNIp] out of it but now you're giving it for free I want some money back"Kaizokugari wrote: »Question then: does this payed service gives you any advantage at all against a player who has not payed for the service?
No.
All it does is allow you to choose any race in any alliance at character creation. So you can basically play your chosen race in your chosen faction, even if they weren't originally available in that faction.
It's called the Adventurer's Pack (I think) in the Crown Store. Well worth the cost IMO.
Thought experiment. Ignore even the PvP leaderboard rewards, this is not the main point.
Two players have the same guild. The same gear. The same abilities. The same work. The same faction. Everything the same. Identical twins. The only different thing is:
1) One payed for optimal racial skills for his class.
2) The other did not.
Anyone has an advantage?
Well, the other will simply play the alliance where his optimal race is.0 -
Rosveen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Hah, yes - but that's on them, not ZOS.starkerealm wrote: »
Every pre-order included the Explorer's Pack, both Imperial and standard edition. It clearly hasn't been included with IE "all the time" because it stopped immediately after launch (though the physical copies still contained the code).NewBlacksmurf wrote: »
All the time I've been correcting people that no, it does not. It's astonishing that this misconception persists to this day.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »
At the time the Imperial edition included all of this
No, you received the Explorer's Pack for free. The price of the game without the pack was the same as of a pre-order with the pack included, therefore you paid nothing and aren't entitled to a refund. Only people who bought the Adventurer's Pack after it was added to the crown store could argue they deserve compensation.drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »If they do that, I want my Imperial Edition ESO partially refunded. One of the only reason I beta-tested and then jumped on board early by purchasing the Imperial Edition package was to get the "play the Imperial race and any race, any alliance". By providing a refund, if they make this change, then I would happily support this idea. Otherwise, naw...not for you late comers unless you pay for it like the rest of us.
This is a common misconception, but the any race in any alliance was not part of the Imperial Edition. It was an early release bonus. You got this perk simply by pre-ordering, and it didn't matter which version of the game you pre-ordered.
I said I was a pre-order...
I think you may want to refer to: http://gamepreorders.com/the-elder-scrolls-online
"The digital Imperial Edition (available on the official website) is slightly cheaper, and, of course, only includes the digital extras. In addition to the Imperial Edition content, all pre-orders will also get the aforementioned Explorer’s Pack, plus 5-day early access (again, only for PC & Mac)."
If you acknowledge that the any race perk was not part of your Imperial bundle, why would you demand a refund for the Imperial Edition if they make unlock race restrictions for everybody? You are making no sense. That's even worse than the toaster metaphor above. This is more like saying "I bought an oven 2 years ago and have used it every day, but now that you're giving toasters away I want a partial refund".
This just reeks of self-righteous foot stomping.
...I guess you just don't get it. At the time it was included with the Imperial Edition, I had no "opt out", thus considered part of the purchase price if I pre-ordered. Therefore, if I should have received the Imperial Edition at a cost less than the Explorer Pack. Since this option was not given to me at the time, and if ZOS would like to offer this as a base game component, I'd like a partial refund. In essence I paid for the Explorer Pack.
I will refrain from engaging you further as I can clearly see you're trolling me at this point. I am not self-righteous...I am simply "right".
@Rosveen
I think you're mistaken. I'm 100% sure my pre-order of the imperial edition provided me with the explorers pack.
Buying after release doesn't
Unless you preordered through G2A, because they stripped the EP codes out and sold them separately for $10 a pop.0 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭Can you please stop crying P2W?
Alliance doesn't even matter anymore, you can play with anyone, anywhere.
Sure, the Imperial is locked for you, BOO HOO.
Is it an optimal race?
No! Redguards and Khajiits overperform Imperials as Stamina DDs.
Is it the best tank?
Nord take the throne here, even Argonians beat Imperials IMO. Although, let's face it: your race hardly matters as tank.
Heck, I tanked with my High Elf DK for almost two years. Got my Imperial City Challenger achievement on it.
Until I decided to finally change my race, because... P2W right?. I can choose anything I want, because I actually paid for that extra commodity.
You know what I changed him to?
A Dunmer!
So yeah... Cry all you want, but in the end, even LOL has a more P2W cash shop than ESO.0 -
Enodoc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thealteregoroman wrote: »I am triggered. Close this thread.
UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp1 -
Kaizokugari✭✭Topic is pretty much dead, but I will answer to the guys who are capable of producing a decent arguement someone can elaborate on.starkerealm wrote: »Kaizokugari wrote: »I was aware of the race change but wasn't aware it let's you stay in your first alliance.
If I understood this correctly, you can pay a sum to make a Nord dragonknight to play for the AD? Well, if this is not P2W, I don't know what is.
You are correct, you, in fact, do not know, what P2W is.
IF ZOS introduced a new race... let's say Xivkyn, since that's popular lately. Gave it +5%/+10%/+20% to Health, Magicka, and Stamina as one of its racial passives, and stuck it in a crown crate, that would be pay to win.
In fact, if there is a legitimate P2W argument in ESO, it would be the Imperial, with their fantastic health and stamina increases.
A new class that flat out renders an existing class obsolete, that is then restricted to the crates or the store would be pay to win.
A new upgrade tier that is crown store exclusive, and raises your gear to Aqua, would be pay to win.
A Nord isn't pay to win, no matter what flag they're fighting under. Anymore than a Pact Breton, or Covenant Bosmer is.
There might be a legitimate discussion that the way the alliances are split, there's some inherent imbalance to racial distribution, (the dominion get the two stealth races, the pact gets the only dedicated healer race, the covenant gets two tanking races (arguably three)...) Yeah, that's a little bit of a problem, but it's not pay to win.
This is all good, but the question wasn't exactly what do you consider pay 2 win but rather what is, by definition, pay 2 win. The common consensus of P2W is already established MMO-wise and is "paying to get an advantage someone else can't get while playing the game". For example, we can't argue about Crown Store EXP Scrolls being P2W because you can earn the same EXP ingame. Cosmetics don't give you an advantage. Mimic stones don't give you an advantage. Does, essentialy, having a pool of 9 passive packs in your alliance give you any advantage alliance-wise against having 3 available passive packs?
If every alliance had "a priori" races balanced and suited for every role, one could argue the Adventurer's Pack doesn't hold any advantage because every Alliance has competitive passives to fill each role.
Many if not most of the answers, even the flamy ones (ignoring BOHOOs, QQs, memes and the rest zoological contributions), recognize one of the following:
a) Yes, there is an advantage but it is not important, or
b) No, there is not an advantage, because alliances don't matter anymore
a) is aknowledging the P2W nature of this mechanism but argues about its total impact in game, on which I totally agree, is minimal to none. I don't think anyone has thought about this, I don't believe it was designed to be like this on purpose e.t.c. but it happened. For you, me or any long playing player is not a big deal. But for a newcomer, that might most propably want to play in some friend's faction so they can PvP together, the "buy to lift racial limitations" package doesn't ring all too well. And that is not, again, because of the "cosmetic" aspect of choosing whatever race in whatever alliance you wish, but because, contrary to other MMOs, not every game role is filled adequately per alliance. And this brings us too:
b) Yes, for most of the game, alliances don't matter anymore. But they do matter for PvP and they do matter for even a DLC of the game, the Imperial City. Again, choosing to play either a tailored Dunmer for your Dragonknight and finding another guild or choosing an Aldmeri Dragonknight just to be with your friends, in my humble opinion
(and I don't get how can people be that bitter on bloody opinions in 2016) should not depend on a pricetag, not in an MMO era when title competitiveness, even with totally Free 2 Play titles, is that big.
Edited by Kaizokugari on December 9, 2016 11:20AM0 -
dsalter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭i bought the bonus pack on ESO release and the imperial pack on a later date. i'm fine with opening up the races.
why?
because i'v had a good chance to use it, i'v already a good play around with it but now i feel it holds the game back into the boring ages.
if people MUST be entitled to something just give the account who owned the race unlock pack before a title of "supporter" and the imperial buyers should get a title of "founder" with a unique dye colour that is of a shiny red but the unique part of it is if applied to the red diamond sections of imperial armor it sparkles/glows.PLEASE REPLY TO ME WITH @dsalter otherwise i'm likely to miss the reply if its not my own thread
EU - [Arch Mage Dave] Altmer Sorcerer
Fight back at the crates and boxes, together we can change things.1 -
White wabbit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So let's see if I get this right don't buy any Dlc now just wait for them to open it up for free to please a few , would save myself some money0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Every pre-order included the Explorer's Pack, both Imperial and standard edition. It clearly hasn't been included with IE "all the time" because it stopped immediately after launch (though the physical copies still contained the code).NewBlacksmurf wrote: »
All the time I've been correcting people that no, it does not. It's astonishing that this misconception persists to this day.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »
At the time the Imperial edition included all of this
No, you received the Explorer's Pack for free. The price of the game without the pack was the same as of a pre-order with the pack included, therefore you paid nothing and aren't entitled to a refund. Only people who bought the Adventurer's Pack after it was added to the crown store could argue they deserve compensation.drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »If they do that, I want my Imperial Edition ESO partially refunded. One of the only reason I beta-tested and then jumped on board early by purchasing the Imperial Edition package was to get the "play the Imperial race and any race, any alliance". By providing a refund, if they make this change, then I would happily support this idea. Otherwise, naw...not for you late comers unless you pay for it like the rest of us.
This is a common misconception, but the any race in any alliance was not part of the Imperial Edition. It was an early release bonus. You got this perk simply by pre-ordering, and it didn't matter which version of the game you pre-ordered.
I said I was a pre-order...
I think you may want to refer to: http://gamepreorders.com/the-elder-scrolls-online
"The digital Imperial Edition (available on the official website) is slightly cheaper, and, of course, only includes the digital extras. In addition to the Imperial Edition content, all pre-orders will also get the aforementioned Explorer’s Pack, plus 5-day early access (again, only for PC & Mac)."
If you acknowledge that the any race perk was not part of your Imperial bundle, why would you demand a refund for the Imperial Edition if they make unlock race restrictions for everybody? You are making no sense. That's even worse than the toaster metaphor above. This is more like saying "I bought an oven 2 years ago and have used it every day, but now that you're giving toasters away I want a partial refund".
This just reeks of self-righteous foot stomping.
...I guess you just don't get it. At the time it was included with the Imperial Edition, I had no "opt out", thus considered part of the purchase price if I pre-ordered. Therefore, if I should have received the Imperial Edition at a cost less than the Explorer Pack. Since this option was not given to me at the time, and if ZOS would like to offer this as a base game component, I'd like a partial refund. In essence I paid for the Explorer Pack.
I will refrain from engaging you further as I can clearly see you're trolling me at this point. I am not self-righteous...I am simply "right".
@Rosveen
I think you're mistaken. I'm 100% sure my pre-order of the imperial edition provided me with the explorers pack.
Buying after release doesn't
@Rosveen
Man....that's exactly what I wrote initially
Why did you tag me and partially quote me?Edited by NewBlacksmurf on December 9, 2016 12:20PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Rosveen✭✭✭✭✭
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Because it isn't what you said. The Imperial Edition and the Explorer's/Adventurer's Pack are unconnected.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »
Every pre-order included the Explorer's Pack, both Imperial and standard edition. It clearly hasn't been included with IE "all the time" because it stopped immediately after launch (though the physical copies still contained the code).NewBlacksmurf wrote: »
All the time I've been correcting people that no, it does not. It's astonishing that this misconception persists to this day.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »
At the time the Imperial edition included all of this
No, you received the Explorer's Pack for free. The price of the game without the pack was the same as of a pre-order with the pack included, therefore you paid nothing and aren't entitled to a refund. Only people who bought the Adventurer's Pack after it was added to the crown store could argue they deserve compensation.drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »If they do that, I want my Imperial Edition ESO partially refunded. One of the only reason I beta-tested and then jumped on board early by purchasing the Imperial Edition package was to get the "play the Imperial race and any race, any alliance". By providing a refund, if they make this change, then I would happily support this idea. Otherwise, naw...not for you late comers unless you pay for it like the rest of us.
This is a common misconception, but the any race in any alliance was not part of the Imperial Edition. It was an early release bonus. You got this perk simply by pre-ordering, and it didn't matter which version of the game you pre-ordered.
I said I was a pre-order...
I think you may want to refer to: http://gamepreorders.com/the-elder-scrolls-online
"The digital Imperial Edition (available on the official website) is slightly cheaper, and, of course, only includes the digital extras. In addition to the Imperial Edition content, all pre-orders will also get the aforementioned Explorer’s Pack, plus 5-day early access (again, only for PC & Mac)."
If you acknowledge that the any race perk was not part of your Imperial bundle, why would you demand a refund for the Imperial Edition if they make unlock race restrictions for everybody? You are making no sense. That's even worse than the toaster metaphor above. This is more like saying "I bought an oven 2 years ago and have used it every day, but now that you're giving toasters away I want a partial refund".
This just reeks of self-righteous foot stomping.
...I guess you just don't get it. At the time it was included with the Imperial Edition, I had no "opt out", thus considered part of the purchase price if I pre-ordered. Therefore, if I should have received the Imperial Edition at a cost less than the Explorer Pack. Since this option was not given to me at the time, and if ZOS would like to offer this as a base game component, I'd like a partial refund. In essence I paid for the Explorer Pack.
I will refrain from engaging you further as I can clearly see you're trolling me at this point. I am not self-righteous...I am simply "right".
@Rosveen
I think you're mistaken. I'm 100% sure my pre-order of the imperial edition provided me with the explorers pack.
Buying after release doesn't
@Rosveen
Man....that's exactly what I wrote initially
Why did you tag me and partially quote me?
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Enodoc✭✭✭✭✭
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You say that in jest, but while I don't think they'll ever be free, if you did wait for a while, you can now get them for considerably less than they originally cost by buying Guilds and Glory.White wabbit wrote: »So let's see if I get this right don't buy any Dlc now just wait for them to open it up for free to please a few , would save myself some money
Edited by Enodoc on December 9, 2016 12:57PMUESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp0 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
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Well...Kaizokugari wrote: »I was aware of the race change but wasn't aware it let's you stay in your first alliance.
If I understood this correctly, you can pay a sum to make a Nord dragonknight to play for the AD? Well, if this is not P2W, I don't know what is.
...you are right, you don't.
PtW is if you can purchase an advantage greater then any other can get in game. That nord DK in AD colors? No greater then any nord DK on the pact side.
No PtW.
In fact, all those people who pre-ordered ESO had that very same advantage right from the start back in in 2014, without any extra payment.
As for the rest of the discussion... the feature is there, you can buy the adventurer pack and get the "Any race, any alliance" unlock. Since they are already selling it, they cannot give it out for free, that'd be cutting their own throat (and I don't mean in a "sausage in a bun" selling way).
If anything, they -might- someday make the adventurers pack available for a reduced price. Most likely as time-limited offer.0 -
antihero727✭✭✭✭✭antihero727 wrote: »Kaizokugari wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Kaizokugari wrote: »I was aware of the race change but wasn't aware it let's you stay in your first alliance.
If I understood this correctly, you can pay a sum to make a Nord dragonknight to play for the AD? Well, if this is not P2W, I don't know what is.
I don't think you understand this game.
There is an unlock depending on the version of the game you own or a crown store option that allows us to create any character under any alliance faction.
It's been this way at PC launch and before a crown store.
Not sure if the intent of this post unless people aren't aware that this has been an option at purchase included in the price. If you chose poorly it's an added cost.
At the time the Imperial edition included all of this
Question then: does this payed service gives you any advantage at all against a player who has not payed for the service?
No. You can still pick those races without purchasing anything. The only race you can not pick with base game is imperial, which if I remember doesn't give anything special comparing to other races.
Your race choices only determine which faction you play in, unless you purchase something to allow you to play that race in a different alliance. You can still pick any race you want with the exception of imperial.antihero727 wrote: »antihero727 wrote: »White wabbit wrote: »Kaizokugari wrote: »I was aware of the race change but wasn't aware it let's you stay in your first alliance.
If I understood this correctly, you can pay a sum to make a Nord dragonknight to play for the AD? Well, if this is not P2W, I don't know what is.
Lol p2w explain to me how that is p2w being able to play a different race in another faction
The game is p2w now.
1-locking dungeons behind paid DLC with the armor now bind on pick up. When non DLC buyers couldn't buy the armor for gold the shift began.
That's not P2W. that's called content and all that goes with that content blocked off from those who did not buy said content.
P2W is there is a super awesome sword of I win in the store. if you don't have said sword you will forever suck large pineapples. The only way to get said sword is through real life money..... that's P2W.
Scathing mage? Veledrith? Spell power cure? all of these are hidden behind a paywall as well as many others.
Lol not this again. So you expect them to only release free content? And actually eso made it so you can still obtain some items from dlc through the golden vendor. Eso is far from p2w no matter what people try to say. When people make these crazy claims it only establishes that they haven't played any truly p2w games.
Do people honestly expect developers to only release free content?
Then don't make the armor bind on pickup and make it sellable, problem solved. I get it's a company to make money but hiding things behind real money is the definition of p2w. Disagree if you want but it just might not be at your gone to far lvl.
What? Might not be at you gone to far lvl?
Pay 2 win would be being able to go to the crown store and buy a vma weapon. That is not the case here, you must complete the content to get the items. Games must progress while not handing items out to people who can't compete the requirement to get the weapon.
I think zos is being more than fair allowing anyone without dlc to get ANY dlc items without purchasing the dlc.
Sorry if you want the newest content and items obtained in that content, you need to pay for it. Stop expecting to get everything for free. No game would be able to support itself if they gave it all away for free.
You can't expect to continually get free updates for years when you probably paid less than 60$ for the game. I honestly don't see how anyone could think that any game should work like that.
Once again you are missing the point.
1-never said give the content for free. I said the armor should not be bind on pickup and sellable at guild traders.
2-that is an unfair advantage to have armor sets hidden behind content with a paid DLC.
3-I will give it to ZOS in hiding p2w in this fashion because they have definitely fooled at least one person.
Veldrn-AD Magica Sorc
Bizarro Veldrn-AD Stam Sorc
Antiherro-AD Stam DK
Antihero-AD Magplar
Aww Crit-AD Magblade
AD Since PC beta
On A lag free vacation
for the near and far future0 -
laksikus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bought the game in January 2015, recieved pre order explorer pack one year after original release for 12€ total
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Kodrac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭antihero727 wrote: »antihero727 wrote: »White wabbit wrote: »Kaizokugari wrote: »I was aware of the race change but wasn't aware it let's you stay in your first alliance.
If I understood this correctly, you can pay a sum to make a Nord dragonknight to play for the AD? Well, if this is not P2W, I don't know what is.
Lol p2w explain to me how that is p2w being able to play a different race in another faction
The game is p2w now.
1-locking dungeons behind paid DLC with the armor now bind on pick up. When non DLC buyers couldn't buy the armor for gold the shift began.
Super Mario Bros. 3 was Pay to Win too. You had to buy it for your NES to play it!
Damn Nintendo has been ripping us for over 30 years!
It's not the dungeons being behind paywalls that makes it p2w it's the armor that is not sellable that makes it p2w. Lol your child like mind amuses me. I guess our definition of p2w differs but hiding some of the best gear in the game behind a paywall imo is p2w.
You P2W conspiracy theorists are out there, man. I'd say something about tinfoil hats but that would be naughty, apparently.0 -
antihero727✭✭✭✭✭antihero727 wrote: »antihero727 wrote: »White wabbit wrote: »Kaizokugari wrote: »I was aware of the race change but wasn't aware it let's you stay in your first alliance.
If I understood this correctly, you can pay a sum to make a Nord dragonknight to play for the AD? Well, if this is not P2W, I don't know what is.
Lol p2w explain to me how that is p2w being able to play a different race in another faction
The game is p2w now.
1-locking dungeons behind paid DLC with the armor now bind on pick up. When non DLC buyers couldn't buy the armor for gold the shift began.
Super Mario Bros. 3 was Pay to Win too. You had to buy it for your NES to play it!
Damn Nintendo has been ripping us for over 30 years!
It's not the dungeons being behind paywalls that makes it p2w it's the armor that is not sellable that makes it p2w. Lol your child like mind amuses me. I guess our definition of p2w differs but hiding some of the best gear in the game behind a paywall imo is p2w.
You P2W conspiracy theorists are out there, man. I'd say something about tinfoil hats but that would be naughty, apparently.
Can you get 1/4 of the armors in the game without paying extra? If that's a tinfoil hat idk what to say anymore if you don't see the clever p2w.Veldrn-AD Magica Sorc
Bizarro Veldrn-AD Stam Sorc
Antiherro-AD Stam DK
Antihero-AD Magplar
Aww Crit-AD Magblade
AD Since PC beta
On A lag free vacation
for the near and far future0 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »
All the time I've been correcting people that no, it does not. It's astonishing that this misconception persists to this day.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »
At the time the Imperial edition included all of this
No, you received the Explorer's Pack for free. The price of the game without the pack was the same as of a pre-order with the pack included, therefore you paid nothing and aren't entitled to a refund. Only people who bought the Adventurer's Pack after it was added to the crown store could argue they deserve compensation.drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »If they do that, I want my Imperial Edition ESO partially refunded. One of the only reason I beta-tested and then jumped on board early by purchasing the Imperial Edition package was to get the "play the Imperial race and any race, any alliance". By providing a refund, if they make this change, then I would happily support this idea. Otherwise, naw...not for you late comers unless you pay for it like the rest of us.
This is a common misconception, but the any race in any alliance was not part of the Imperial Edition. It was an early release bonus. You got this perk simply by pre-ordering, and it didn't matter which version of the game you pre-ordered.
I said I was a pre-order...
I think you may want to refer to: http://gamepreorders.com/the-elder-scrolls-online
"The digital Imperial Edition (available on the official website) is slightly cheaper, and, of course, only includes the digital extras. In addition to the Imperial Edition content, all pre-orders will also get the aforementioned Explorer’s Pack, plus 5-day early access (again, only for PC & Mac)."
If you acknowledge that the any race perk was not part of your Imperial bundle, why would you demand a refund for the Imperial Edition if they make unlock race restrictions for everybody? You are making no sense. That's even worse than the toaster metaphor above. This is more like saying "I bought an oven 2 years ago and have used it every day, but now that you're giving toasters away I want a partial refund".
This just reeks of self-righteous foot stomping.
...I guess you just don't get it. At the time it was included with the Imperial Edition, I had no "opt out", thus considered part of the purchase price if I pre-ordered. Therefore, if I should have received the Imperial Edition at a cost less than the Explorer Pack. Since this option was not given to me at the time, and if ZOS would like to offer this as a base game component, I'd like a partial refund. In essence I paid for the Explorer Pack.
I will refrain from engaging you further as I can clearly see you're trolling me at this point. I am not self-righteous...I am simply "right".
@Rosveen
I think you're mistaken. I'm 100% sure my pre-order of the imperial edition provided me with the explorers pack.
Buying after release doesn't
The explorers pack came with every edition of the game prior to release. It was the pre-order bonus. You didnt get it because it was the Imperial Edition. You got it because you preordered. Im sure you could still find games on Amazon with the Explorers Pack still in them if you looked around.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax0 -
Kodrac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭antihero727 wrote: »antihero727 wrote: »antihero727 wrote: »White wabbit wrote: »Kaizokugari wrote: »I was aware of the race change but wasn't aware it let's you stay in your first alliance.
If I understood this correctly, you can pay a sum to make a Nord dragonknight to play for the AD? Well, if this is not P2W, I don't know what is.
Lol p2w explain to me how that is p2w being able to play a different race in another faction
The game is p2w now.
1-locking dungeons behind paid DLC with the armor now bind on pick up. When non DLC buyers couldn't buy the armor for gold the shift began.
Super Mario Bros. 3 was Pay to Win too. You had to buy it for your NES to play it!
Damn Nintendo has been ripping us for over 30 years!
It's not the dungeons being behind paywalls that makes it p2w it's the armor that is not sellable that makes it p2w. Lol your child like mind amuses me. I guess our definition of p2w differs but hiding some of the best gear in the game behind a paywall imo is p2w.
You P2W conspiracy theorists are out there, man. I'd say something about tinfoil hats but that would be naughty, apparently.
Can you get 1/4 of the armors in the game without paying extra? If that's a tinfoil hat idk what to say anymore if you don't see the clever p2w.
Yes. Subscribing isn't paying extra. If you're a F2P cheapo then everything must seem P2W to you and a tad bit hypocritical.0
