What exactly makes Radiant powerful enough to where everyone hates it?

ArchMikem · December 2016

I'm genuinely confused. Radiant Glory/Oppression is so hated by the community, yet most of my experiences using it against other players is pretty abysmal and only works out when supplementing other people's damage on target. So many times I've tried hitting wounded players with it and just watch as they easily mitigate and heal right through the entire channel. I have nearly 3,000 Spell Penetration through CPs, 100 in Elemental damage as well as 35 in Thaum if that also affects the ability. So what exactly does people hate about the ability so much?

Kutsuu · December 2016

It's the best execute in the game and people feel like it's unfair because they don't have it. Let's keep it in perspective though - it starts scaling at 50% life, works from 30m+ range in Cyrodiil, can't be dodged, and does so much damage below 20% life that you can kill people in mist form/blocking through huge amounts of mitigation.

If you don't get why it's powerful, you should try using other class/weapon executes and compare them objectively. You'll learn to love radiant.

Draxys · December 2016

It's not necessarily the strength that makes it an issue, it's the design that doesn't make sense. A ranged, undodgeable execute that scales up starting at 50% of the target's health is stupid. Really, any execute that starts "executing" at that high it's percentage is dumb, but oh well /shrug

danno8 · December 2016

There are like 500 threads on RD hate. Just go read some of them.

ArchMikem · December 2016

Kutsuu wrote: »

If you don't get why it's powerful, you should try using other class/weapon executes and compare them objectively. You'll learn to love radiant.

Killer's Blade has a permanent spot on my StamBlade's bar, however I've had a lot of fun with the Magic version which gives it use at range which is much more forgiving in combat.

Mage's Fury is also a fantastic Execute on my MagSorc, since you can cast it even when the enemy's health pool isn't in Execute range yet. It's a pretty great time bomb if you can get the percentage down enough in time.

I won't deny Radiant isn't a wonderful Execute. It's helped me clinch Dungeon Boss fights where my group would have otherwise wiped if I hadn't been on my Templar. But I've just noticed much more often than not in PvP that my Radiant is pretty much shrugged off unless the player was already drastically low.

Kutsuu · December 2016

Draxys wrote: »

It's not necessarily the strength that makes it an issue, it's the design that doesn't make sense. A ranged, undodgeable execute that scales up starting at 50% of the target's health is stupid. Really, any execute that starts "executing" at that high it's percentage is dumb, but oh well /shrug

In fairness though it is not doing 330% damage at 50% health. I see roughly 2.5k ticks above 50% health in PVP, and it hits around 3k in the 45-49% range, so I assume it is scaling pretty linearly 0-330% bonus from 50-0% health.

TheShadowScout · December 2016

ArchMikem wrote: »

What exactly makes Radiant powerful enough to where everyone hates it?

Oh, its a nifty skill, true enough. But there are many nifty skills in ESO...
But what makes people hate it is when they get killed by it.

Next week they will be killed by something else, and then they will post hate on that. Vipers Sting. Elemental Storm. Whatever.

Y'all need to learn how to stop worrying and live with the (inevitable) gank!

Wing · December 2016

Radiant is:
-max range
-un dodgeable
-starts scaling its execute damage really early
-double dips in CP (like a lot of Templar DPS skills actually)
-does okay damage before the execute even starts
-is unreflectable ranged damage
-its more reliable then Templars other damage abilities because of its difficulty to counter, thus its the one they use most.

because of this its spammed in Cyrodil, as it is very easy to use and very hard to break/counter. so you can end up being hit my multiple max range beams at once that deal increasing amount of damage until your simply dead.

the counter of "bash them" is not practical in standard cyrodil gameplay, breaking it with line of sight is also not practical in most cases, blocking slows you down thus opening you up for being attacked by the rest of the enemy force so is therefore also not practical.

TL:DR
-Its stupidly effective and easy to use.
-Its stupidly hard to actually counter.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · December 2016

Because you cant dodge it. End of story.

DRXHarbinger · December 2016

Because....gang up with 4 other Templars....all throw bane at emp and radiant...emp dead. It's good for group bullying.

EvilCroc · December 2016

Never mind, just silly PvP'ers whining. Great skill to burn down bosses.

Sugaroverdose · December 2016

ArchMikem wrote: »

I'm genuinely confused. Radiant Glory/Oppression is so hated by the community, yet most of my experiences using it against other players is pretty abysmal and only works out when supplementing other people's damage on target. So many times I've tried hitting wounded players with it and just watch as they easily mitigate and heal right through the entire channel. I have nearly 3,000 Spell Penetration through CPs, 100 in Elemental damage as well as 35 in Thaum if that also affects the ability. So what exactly does people hate about the ability so much?

People hate it because it's zero risk(in group play of course, solo it's risky), huge distance(40m), high execute range(50%), also it deals 25% more to vamps cause of fire damage, and every time you met >3 people group, you get multiple RD beams when you at 100% health.
Meanwhile not so much people hate poison injection and implosion, while they actually same way stupid as RD.

My opinion: whole execute mechanics is f* up, cause it's not about risk/reward, but about spaming zero costed ability.

Wing · December 2016

EvilCroc wrote: »

Never mind, just silly PvP'ers whining. Great skill to burn down bosses.

most of the things that make the skill irritating in PvP have nothing to do with PvE.

or were bosses trying to roll dodge your jesus beam? no?
were they requiring you to stand 30m away and hide in the corner? no?
I'm sure they were trying to bash interrupt you? no that neither?

hmmmmm. . .

Kutsuu · December 2016

ArchMikem wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

If you don't get why it's powerful, you should try using other class/weapon executes and compare them objectively. You'll learn to love radiant.

Killer's Blade has a permanent spot on my StamBlade's bar, however I've had a lot of fun with the Magic version which gives it use at range which is much more forgiving in combat.

Mage's Fury is also a fantastic Execute on my MagSorc, since you can cast it even when the enemy's health pool isn't in Execute range yet. It's a pretty great time bomb if you can get the percentage down enough in time.

I won't deny Radiant isn't a wonderful Execute. It's helped me clinch Dungeon Boss fights where my group would have otherwise wiped if I hadn't been on my Templar. But I've just noticed much more often than not in PvP that my Radiant is pretty much shrugged off unless the player was already drastically low.

Yes, those are good executes. My point still stands that Radiant outshines them.

It's rare that someone just shrugs radiant off. I am guessing that you ran into a permablock build one or two times and you're basing your entire argument on that. Yeah, a permablock build can mitigate a LOT of damage and block cast heals. I've seen my radiant tick for 1k on a guy who was below 20% health because they had so much block mitigation. Literally everyone else has to deal with the same block mitigation, and it has nothing to do with radiant destruction.

fred4 · December 2016

I can't find the YouTube video anymore. Some guy did a PvE comparison with other executes. It actually does kill significantly faster than others, including, for example, Executioner, which also scales from 50%.

Brrrofski · December 2016

Only issue I have is range. It's outside of gap closers range so it can be difficult to interrupt.

Destruent · December 2016

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

I'm genuinely confused. Radiant Glory/Oppression is so hated by the community, yet most of my experiences using it against other players is pretty abysmal and only works out when supplementing other people's damage on target. So many times I've tried hitting wounded players with it and just watch as they easily mitigate and heal right through the entire channel. I have nearly 3,000 Spell Penetration through CPs, 100 in Elemental damage as well as 35 in Thaum if that also affects the ability. So what exactly does people hate about the ability so much?

People hate it because it's zero risk(in group play of course, solo it's risky), huge distance(40m), high execute range(50%), also it deals 25% more to vamps cause of fire damage, and every time you met >3 people group, you get multiple RD beams when you at 100% health.
Meanwhile not so much people hate poison injection and implosion, while they actually same way stupid as RD.

My opinion: whole execute mechanics is f* up, cause it's not about risk/reward, but about spaming zero costed ability.

It doesn't do fire damage....no idea why people think it does. If people try executing you at full hp, pop a HoT and maybe a shield and walk away....this skill just tickles if you have more than 30..35% HP.

fred4 wrote: »

I can't find the YouTube video anymore. Some guy did a PvE comparison with other executes. It actually does kill significantly faster than others, including, for example, Executioner, which also scales from 50%.

This video is completely crap. It shows no gear, CP, Buffs, whatever. the creator also didn't use the advantage of instant casts (weaving). But anyway...if you want to show something, you are able to do it. Doesn't matter what.

NewBlacksmurf · December 2016

It's an execute...so if you're above 20% it's really not gonna be awesome just like other executes.

It's not the best and honestly if more ppl played a magic NB(they do and then ppl feel stamina is better) that execute is just as awesome

Actually that one is ranged and instant vs radiant being channeled

Prof_Bawbag · December 2016

Trees are your best friend as are most obstacles. I learnt this within 5mins of delving into PvP, yet there are others who have only played pvp since the beginning of time and still stand there like a gopher and take it square between the eyes. Fair enough if you're heavily out numbered on flat terrain, but unless I'm missing something, there are almost always walls, rocks and trees every 2ft or so. See it happening during duels too. The person on the receiving end just stands there and hopes their wet noodle of a weapon will somehow kill their full health opponent before they get frazzled to death with Radiant. Not gonna happen if the other person knows when to use it. It also leaves the Templar very vulnerable during PvP too when they're using it in a close up scuffle. I'm assuming that's the trade off. Killed many a Templar whilst they've been busy frying someone.

Kutsuu · December 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's an execute...
It's not the best and honestly if more ppl played a magic NB(they do and then ppl feel stamina is better) that execute is just as awesome

Actually that one is ranged and instant vs radiant being channeled

Impale can be dodged and actually has a pretty common bug right now where it just doesn't connect with anything without giving any feedback. It's also less than half the range (15m vs nearly 40 in Cyro) and doesn't benefit from Cyrodiil's increased range on 25m+ abilities. Furthermore it doesn't scale as well with CPs because it doesn't double tip with thaumaturge and elemental expert.

I take it you're not taking your own advice about playing a magicka NB.

Destruent · December 2016

Kutsuu wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's an execute...
It's not the best and honestly if more ppl played a magic NB(they do and then ppl feel stamina is better) that execute is just as awesome

Actually that one is ranged and instant vs radiant being channeled

Impale can be dodged and actually has a pretty common bug right now where it just doesn't connect with anything without giving any feedback. It's also less than half the range (15m vs nearly 40 in Cyro) and doesn't benefit from Cyrodiil's increased range on 25m+ abilities.

I take it you're not taking your own advice about playing a magicka NB.

So impale is stronger against magicka-builds (bc they cannot permadodge) and radiant is stronger against stambuilds (bc they have no shields)...sounds kinda balanced to me...

Kutsuu · December 2016

Destruent wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's an execute...
It's not the best and honestly if more ppl played a magic NB(they do and then ppl feel stamina is better) that execute is just as awesome

Actually that one is ranged and instant vs radiant being channeled

Impale can be dodged and actually has a pretty common bug right now where it just doesn't connect with anything without giving any feedback. It's also less than half the range (15m vs nearly 40 in Cyro) and doesn't benefit from Cyrodiil's increased range on 25m+ abilities.

I take it you're not taking your own advice about playing a magicka NB.

So impale is stronger against magicka-builds (bc they cannot permadodge) and radiant is stronger against stambuilds (bc they have no shields)...sounds kinda balanced to me...

I don't agree - the longer range and higher damage of radiant makes it stronger against both. Radiant absolutely MELTS shields when magicka builds try to healing ward at low life. I'm not trying to get radiant nerfed or something - this is just the reality that I see when I play. I main nightblades (I have 5, 2 mag 3 stam), but I've been having a lot of fun on my magplar alt lately.

Reverb · December 2016

It can't be dodged, so it requires Shuffle, roly-poly builds to use their brains to counter, they hate that. Its execute bonus starts when the opponent is at 50% health (which is admittedly too high, and needs brought in line with other execute ranges). The RO morph scales on available magicka, so it favors DPS who stack the attribute. It puts a giant, yellow beam on your enemy, letting your allies see exactly who to focus on. There are plenty of counters for it, but the counter mechanics are different than what people like to do, they hate that.

There's also a lot of complaints that the counters aren't effective against multiple Templars beaming you at the same time. That's true. There are also no effective counters against multiple anything spamming any execute, but that doesn't favor the "nerf beam" argument, so that logic is disregarded.

NewBlacksmurf · December 2016

Kutsuu wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's an execute...
It's not the best and honestly if more ppl played a magic NB(they do and then ppl feel stamina is better) that execute is just as awesome

Actually that one is ranged and instant vs radiant being channeled

Impale can be dodged and actually has a pretty common bug right now where it just doesn't connect with anything without giving any feedback. It's also less than half the range (15m vs nearly 40 in Cyro) and doesn't benefit from Cyrodiil's increased range on 25m+ abilities. Furthermore it doesn't scale as well with CPs because it doesn't double tip with thaumaturge and elemental expert.

I take it you're not taking your own advice about playing a magicka NB.

@Kutsuu
I play magic NB and magic Templars

I don't PvP so my comments will differ in the PvP conversations

Edit: So as the OP asks....it's below 25% and in any environment if you're below 25% it's a wrap if they have executes but for me I actually prefer the NB because you can cast it multiple times. It doesn't matter if you can block it cause it's not channeled where as on my Templar. I'm stuck in the animation.

Destruent · December 2016

Kutsuu wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's an execute...
It's not the best and honestly if more ppl played a magic NB(they do and then ppl feel stamina is better) that execute is just as awesome

Actually that one is ranged and instant vs radiant being channeled

Impale can be dodged and actually has a pretty common bug right now where it just doesn't connect with anything without giving any feedback. It's also less than half the range (15m vs nearly 40 in Cyro) and doesn't benefit from Cyrodiil's increased range on 25m+ abilities.

I take it you're not taking your own advice about playing a magicka NB.

So impale is stronger against magicka-builds (bc they cannot permadodge) and radiant is stronger against stambuilds (bc they have no shields)...sounds kinda balanced to me...

I don't agree - the longer range and higher damage of radiant makes it stronger against both. Radiant absolutely MELTS shields when magicka builds try to healing ward at low life. I'm not trying to get radiant nerfed or something - this is just the reality that I see when I play. I main nightblades (I have 5, 2 mag 3 stam), but I've been having a lot of fun on my magplar alt lately.

If you have serious problems with radiant as a magicka build you are either outnumbered or need to l2p...

Kutsuu · December 2016

Destruent wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's an execute...
It's not the best and honestly if more ppl played a magic NB(they do and then ppl feel stamina is better) that execute is just as awesome

Actually that one is ranged and instant vs radiant being channeled

Impale can be dodged and actually has a pretty common bug right now where it just doesn't connect with anything without giving any feedback. It's also less than half the range (15m vs nearly 40 in Cyro) and doesn't benefit from Cyrodiil's increased range on 25m+ abilities.

I take it you're not taking your own advice about playing a magicka NB.

So impale is stronger against magicka-builds (bc they cannot permadodge) and radiant is stronger against stambuilds (bc they have no shields)...sounds kinda balanced to me...

I don't agree - the longer range and higher damage of radiant makes it stronger against both. Radiant absolutely MELTS shields when magicka builds try to healing ward at low life. I'm not trying to get radiant nerfed or something - this is just the reality that I see when I play. I main nightblades (I have 5, 2 mag 3 stam), but I've been having a lot of fun on my magplar alt lately.

If you have serious problems with radiant as a magicka build you are either outnumbered or need to l2p...

My opponents seem to have serious problems with it if they let their health get into the <30% range, which IMO is as it should be. I regularly see 7-10k ticks of radiant against shields on someone trying to healing ward spam to survive after getting low.

There's nothing wrong with having the strongest ability in a category. That's called diversity - classes with different strengths and weaknesses. I feel like you're arguing and being defensive just b/c you think we want radiant to get nerfed and your "L2P" defense is going to somehow prevent that.

While I do think Magplar has one of the strongest overall "stand and fight" toolsets you can have right now, especially with an undodgeable ranged execute to finish people with, I also think the weaknesses of a small stamina pool and lack of mobility make up for it.

The fact that radiant can be interrupted gives it good counterplay, so I really don't think it needs any adjustment.

NewBlacksmurf · December 2016

Destruent wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's an execute...
It's not the best and honestly if more ppl played a magic NB(they do and then ppl feel stamina is better) that execute is just as awesome

Actually that one is ranged and instant vs radiant being channeled

Impale can be dodged and actually has a pretty common bug right now where it just doesn't connect with anything without giving any feedback. It's also less than half the range (15m vs nearly 40 in Cyro) and doesn't benefit from Cyrodiil's increased range on 25m+ abilities.

I take it you're not taking your own advice about playing a magicka NB.

So impale is stronger against magicka-builds (bc they cannot permadodge) and radiant is stronger against stambuilds (bc they have no shields)...sounds kinda balanced to me...

I agree it's fine too
I think the whole issue with these types of discussions is that the game doesn't seperate PvE from PvP in the effects of skills and passives

It is what it is tho
It's not like all Templars are going around one or two shoting people

Oddly enough with all the complaints NB's do go around one and two shoting ppl

Funny that's it's a balance issue but Templars have no speed boost, no stealth to increase crits and have to get you down to 25% whereas a NB can get you to 25% before you know they're on you

GreenSoup2HoT · December 2016

The 50% execute is what i hate most.

Sugaroverdose · December 2016

Destruent wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

I'm genuinely confused. Radiant Glory/Oppression is so hated by the community, yet most of my experiences using it against other players is pretty abysmal and only works out when supplementing other people's damage on target. So many times I've tried hitting wounded players with it and just watch as they easily mitigate and heal right through the entire channel. I have nearly 3,000 Spell Penetration through CPs, 100 in Elemental damage as well as 35 in Thaum if that also affects the ability. So what exactly does people hate about the ability so much?

People hate it because it's zero risk(in group play of course, solo it's risky), huge distance(40m), high execute range(50%), also it deals 25% more to vamps cause of fire damage, and every time you met >3 people group, you get multiple RD beams when you at 100% health.
Meanwhile not so much people hate poison injection and implosion, while they actually same way stupid as RD.

My opinion: whole execute mechanics is f* up, cause it's not about risk/reward, but about spaming zero costed ability.

It doesn't do fire damage....no idea why people think it does. If people try executing you at full hp, pop a HoT and maybe a shield and walk away....this skill just tickles if you have more than 30..35% HP.

Huh? Maybe because of tooltip? Or maybe because of i have magplar and played it in PvP since IC?
Did you read my post? You meet >3 group of people how the heck should i "walk away"? FYI i'm not sorc

Kutsuu · December 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's an execute...
It's not the best and honestly if more ppl played a magic NB(they do and then ppl feel stamina is better) that execute is just as awesome

Actually that one is ranged and instant vs radiant being channeled

Impale can be dodged and actually has a pretty common bug right now where it just doesn't connect with anything without giving any feedback. It's also less than half the range (15m vs nearly 40 in Cyro) and doesn't benefit from Cyrodiil's increased range on 25m+ abilities.

I take it you're not taking your own advice about playing a magicka NB.

So impale is stronger against magicka-builds (bc they cannot permadodge) and radiant is stronger against stambuilds (bc they have no shields)...sounds kinda balanced to me...

I agree it's fine too
I think the whole issue with these types of discussions is that the game doesn't seperate PvE from PvP in the effects of skills and passives

It is what it is tho
It's not like all Templars are going around one or two shoting people

Oddly enough with all the complaints NB's do go around one and two shoting ppl

Funny that's it's a balance issue but Templars have no speed boost, no stealth to increase crits and have to get you down to 25% whereas a NB can get you to 25% before you know they're on you

IMO the biggest problem with these discussions with relation to PVP is that people think balance is everyone having the SAME THING. Just b/c one class gets a stronger execute, doesn't mean it's OP or that it needs a nerf. That other class is going to have a significant advantage in another category.

Just like you're saying, NBs have their own advantages that make up for not having the same execute that templars have.

Franieck · December 2016

This ability is awesome for pve!