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So.... Who wants 1.5 back now?
-
themdogesbite✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why cant the game be like this again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeLb87lObUA
I'd even take back all those broken things we had in the game back then. Group markers spread all over the map, invissible on your batswarm bar etc. The stacking bone shield was nuts togheter with frag shield though.:]2 -
Draxys✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭themdogesbite wrote: »Why cant the game be like this againhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeLb87lObUA
I'd even take back all those broken things we had in the game back then. Group markers spread all over the map, invissible on your batswarm bar etc. The stacking bone shield was nuts togheter with frag shield though.
:'(
The game was so fun even while broken. Now it's just broken, and every now and then fun under some circumstances.
After 1.5, with no limits on stats, I'm not sure there was a realistic outcome other than a FoM metagame that morphs as stuff inevitably gets nerfed. Sad.2013
rip decibel0 -
Ashamray✭✭✭✭✭Can someone remind me the list of all 1.5 features? Blinding flashes and all these things used to be.Edited by Ashamray on December 1, 2016 2:38PMBoadrig, EU PC
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Imperial City feedback and suggestions0 -
Ashamray✭✭✭✭✭
Don't think that spamming healing spring before battle was a good design.Boadrig, EU PC
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Imperial City feedback and suggestions0 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I didnt like it neither. Dynamic ulti regen needed some tweaks but defs just decided to remove it from game. They too the easiest approach.Because I can!0 -
Manoekin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
You're right, light attacking is much more engaging.
Dynamic ulti gen was near perfect. The only thing they needed to change about it was the "combat" buff in the new mechanic and make it so you get the buff from any source of damage, or healing of someone who has dealt damage. This much was given to them in feedback, but they opted for the easy way that favored larger groups of players.2 -
Ashamray✭✭✭✭✭
You're right, light attacking is much more engaging.
Dynamic ulti gen was near perfect. The only thing they needed to change about it was the "combat" buff in the new mechanic and make it so you get the buff from any source of damage, or healing of someone who has dealt damage. This much was given to them in feedback, but they opted for the easy way that favored larger groups of players.
Idk, ultimate regen isn't the sharpest problem in the game. Really. Speak as magicka templar with DW + snb (the worst combo for doing light attacks)
Softcaps doesn't fit ZOS' vision of character progression and - as far as I can remember - they wrote about it. Softcaps will strongly argue with current CP system, and it is impossible just to bring them back, because then many things are supposed to be reworked.
So what remains of 1.5?Edited by Ashamray on December 1, 2016 6:45PMBoadrig, EU PC
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Imperial City feedback and suggestions0 -
Manoekin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
You're right, light attacking is much more engaging.
Dynamic ulti gen was near perfect. The only thing they needed to change about it was the "combat" buff in the new mechanic and make it so you get the buff from any source of damage, or healing of someone who has dealt damage. This much was given to them in feedback, but they opted for the easy way that favored larger groups of players.
Idk, ultimate regen isn't the sharpest problem in the game. Really. Speak as magicka templar with DW + snb (the worst combo for doing light attacks)
Softcaps doesn't fit ZOS' vision of character progression and - as far as I can remember - they wrote about it. Softcaps will strongly argue with current CP system, and it is impossible just to bring them back, because then many things are supposed to be reworked.
So what remains of 1.5?
Ultimate regen is a problem in PvP, as well as soft caps. With such low ulti regen a large number of fights come out to whoever has more ultimates (more people), or in other cases whoever actually has them available. I've been in fights where I've been negated at least six or seven times... and there's just simply nothing you can do.
As far as soft caps, they were not an issue or holding back character progression. The issue with character progression, and ZOS knew this, was that stats were so low (180 magicka regen for instance) that when you upgraded your gear it sometimes didn't even register on your character sheet because you'd just say, "wow I gained 5 whole HP". That was why they inflated the numbers. The whole CP train we're now on has no brakes, and those brakes were soft caps. What would have been so wrong with keeping soft caps in the game, and instead of CP adding pure stats have them relax the soft caps of the respective resource? That way you will see your stats increase as your CP increases, but nothing will get to the insanely out of control levels we have/had.
Simple ability nerf/buffs aren't going to fix anything. The system needs an overhaul. Nerfing/buffing is only going to shift the meta to the one setup that is now this patch 0.1% better than the other setup. You have to have a stable platform before you can start doing any of that. Another thing this brought was Battle Spirit, which is just useless. All Battle Spirit ever did was reduce diversity. We're at 50% damage reduction and still one-two shotting people because we find ways to scale our damage even higher each patch. Because of Battle Spirit many abilities might as well just be buff/debuff abilities because after the 50% nerf they are only good to counteract some health regen. Many sets that, while cool and interesting, are useless because you then can't overcome the barrier that BS puts between you and being competitive.7 -
Blackfyre20✭✭✭✭
You're right, light attacking is much more engaging.
Dynamic ulti gen was near perfect. The only thing they needed to change about it was the "combat" buff in the new mechanic and make it so you get the buff from any source of damage, or healing of someone who has dealt damage. This much was given to them in feedback, but they opted for the easy way that favored larger groups of players.
Idk, ultimate regen isn't the sharpest problem in the game. Really. Speak as magicka templar with DW + snb (the worst combo for doing light attacks)
Softcaps doesn't fit ZOS' vision of character progression and - as far as I can remember - they wrote about it. Softcaps will strongly argue with current CP system, and it is impossible just to bring them back, because then many things are supposed to be reworked.
So what remains of 1.5?
Ultimate regen is a problem in PvP, as well as soft caps. With such low ulti regen a large number of fights come out to whoever has more ultimates (more people), or in other cases whoever actually has them available. I've been in fights where I've been negated at least six or seven times... and there's just simply nothing you can do.
As far as soft caps, they were not an issue or holding back character progression. The issue with character progression, and ZOS knew this, was that stats were so low (180 magicka regen for instance) that when you upgraded your gear it sometimes didn't even register on your character sheet because you'd just say, "wow I gained 5 whole HP". That was why they inflated the numbers. The whole CP train we're now on has no brakes, and those brakes were soft caps. What would have been so wrong with keeping soft caps in the game, and instead of CP adding pure stats have them relax the soft caps of the respective resource? That way you will see your stats increase as your CP increases, but nothing will get to the insanely out of control levels we have/had.
Simple ability nerf/buffs aren't going to fix anything. The system needs an overhaul. Nerfing/buffing is only going to shift the meta to the one setup that is now this patch 0.1% better than the other setup. You have to have a stable platform before you can start doing any of that. Another thing this brought was Battle Spirit, which is just useless. All Battle Spirit ever did was reduce diversity. We're at 50% damage reduction and still one-two shotting people because we find ways to scale our damage even higher each patch. Because of Battle Spirit many abilities might as well just be buff/debuff abilities because after the 50% nerf they are only good to counteract some health regen. Many sets that, while cool and interesting, are useless because you then can't overcome the barrier that BS puts between you and being competitive.
Agree with every single thing saidBuff Soft Caps0 -
Ashamray✭✭✭✭✭
You're right, light attacking is much more engaging.
Dynamic ulti gen was near perfect. The only thing they needed to change about it was the "combat" buff in the new mechanic and make it so you get the buff from any source of damage, or healing of someone who has dealt damage. This much was given to them in feedback, but they opted for the easy way that favored larger groups of players.
Idk, ultimate regen isn't the sharpest problem in the game. Really. Speak as magicka templar with DW + snb (the worst combo for doing light attacks)
Softcaps doesn't fit ZOS' vision of character progression and - as far as I can remember - they wrote about it. Softcaps will strongly argue with current CP system, and it is impossible just to bring them back, because then many things are supposed to be reworked.
So what remains of 1.5?
Ultimate regen is a problem in PvP, as well as soft caps. With such low ulti regen a large number of fights come out to whoever has more ultimates (more people), or in other cases whoever actually has them available. I've been in fights where I've been negated at least six or seven times... and there's just simply nothing you can do.
As far as soft caps, they were not an issue or holding back character progression. The issue with character progression, and ZOS knew this, was that stats were so low (180 magicka regen for instance) that when you upgraded your gear it sometimes didn't even register on your character sheet because you'd just say, "wow I gained 5 whole HP". That was why they inflated the numbers. The whole CP train we're now on has no brakes, and those brakes were soft caps. What would have been so wrong with keeping soft caps in the game, and instead of CP adding pure stats have them relax the soft caps of the respective resource? That way you will see your stats increase as your CP increases, but nothing will get to the insanely out of control levels we have/had.
Simple ability nerf/buffs aren't going to fix anything. The system needs an overhaul. Nerfing/buffing is only going to shift the meta to the one setup that is now this patch 0.1% better than the other setup. You have to have a stable platform before you can start doing any of that. Another thing this brought was Battle Spirit, which is just useless. All Battle Spirit ever did was reduce diversity. We're at 50% damage reduction and still one-two shotting people because we find ways to scale our damage even higher each patch. Because of Battle Spirit many abilities might as well just be buff/debuff abilities because after the 50% nerf they are only good to counteract some health regen. Many sets that, while cool and interesting, are useless because you then can't overcome the barrier that BS puts between you and being competitive.
I catch your point. Maybe you're right.Edited by Ashamray on December 1, 2016 10:36PMBoadrig, EU PC
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Imperial City feedback and suggestions0 -
Magus✭✭✭✭✭I see no reason that CP couldn't exist with soft caps - sure you can get 15-24% extra of whatever but if you are soft capped on that then it gives diminishing returns to encourage more balanced approaches / hybrid builds instead of stacking stats. Only real con is there would be less build diversity. In my opinion, 1.5 had less build diversity so it was more player vs player, not proc vs proc, or build vs build like it now a days.
Though with the destruction staff ball groups running around mowing down pugs, it's almost like dynamic ult gen with all the combat frenzy procs going around lol. If there was legitimate dynamic ult gen, these groups would never die unless to another ball group that catches them off guard / out of position with a bomb of their own.Duraeon / Maoh
Former Emperor of Haderus, Trueflame, and Azura's Star
PC/NA0 -
krim✭✭✭✭✭IxSTALKERxI wrote: »
Using your logic, quoting the guy who just posted that magicka is still overpowered in PvP proofs that there is no current magicka meta.Nope, absolutely hated the harry potter dress wearing fotm that lasted for months and months:P
I rolled a Stamblade for my main PvP char at PC launch (!) and refused to wear a pretty dress and play with wooden sticks.
Anyone who thinks 1.5 was balanced was part of the pretty dress meta, simple as that ...
I played a very viable Stam build in 1.5.
Was amazing in group play, open world, and in duels I could go toe to toe with FoTM Magica DKs.
To think I once got respect for having a Stam build, makes me giggle.
Nothing to see here folks, @Manoekin just provided proof the current game is balanced!
You might actually be an idiot man. The only thing magicka has going for it is destro ult. If your idea of balance is to add an ult that's just a prox det that goes off every second for 10(?) seconds I really don't want to play any games you have a hand in. Aside from that you have no reason to be magicka unless you're healing. A lot of people prefer magicka, but it's just simply not as good and that's an unbiased fact. 1.4/1.5 had actual balance, even between stam/magicka. It wasn't around long enough to develop past stam = ganker. Steve kinda figured it out imo. I remember him from back then and he really stood out not just because he was stam, but because he made just as much of an impact as the other players around him. If you look back on the game's history no one figured out that negate was a good ultimate until like a month into the game (lol). It took at least 2-3 patches before Krim figured out nightblades could not only compete but be potentially the best class in the game when played right. Before that every nightblade used a bow or they rerolled. DK builds evolved a lot from launch to 1.5. A lot of changes to gear/stat distributions. Templars weren't even the preferred healers early on. Sorc resto heals were insanely stronger and they had better sustain. None of these things happened because of buffs/nerfs, but just because players figured things out. The ability was there, just player ingenuity hadn't gotten to the point where stam became widespread outside of gankers.
TLDR, redesigning your entire game when it was working well wasn't the answer.
This is a good summary.
One of the big problems with early days ESO is that most mechanics were hidden from the players. Thus we had no feedback to discover things except by fighting, hence the slow pace of discovery on NB and Templar builds. DKs and Sorcs had much more understandable mechanics which figured out during beta.
Can't remember if it was krim or Mojar Stalker that introduced sap tanks around 1.3/1.4. and araxleon didn't introduce the burst magicka NB until 1.5. well played Templars in 1.5 were nearly unlikable, and were hard counters to the DK (flashes plus blazing shield).
Stamina has been stronger than magicka on all classes since 1.6, with the exception of mSorc in 1.6 and mTemplar in 1.8. Magicka was stronger pre 1.6, but the gap had narrowed considerably and was largely a result of player ignorance. Good example of this given by Steve and a few others (Mrs Jones).
Regardless, ZoS decided to totally revamp a combat system that wasn't fundamentally broken. It just needed a bit more variety and continuing changes.
I'll pose the point this way: what if, instead of utilizing so much time remaking stat values and combat they had focused on balance and content additions within the system they already had? I bet they would be six months ahead in content than they are now, the balance would be better, and more players would play. God it took 18 months from launch to see imperial city!
Azoi was also runnin sap tank around the same time as krim and I, but I actually think gottbeard may have been one of the first to start running it. I don't think any of us knew of each other at the time though lol.
As far as the sap build, I cant say i started it first. But im pretty sure mine was the most baller.0 -
God_flakes✭✭✭✭✭
✭IxSTALKERxI wrote: »
Using your logic, quoting the guy who just posted that magicka is still overpowered in PvP proofs that there is no current magicka meta.Nope, absolutely hated the harry potter dress wearing fotm that lasted for months and months:P
I rolled a Stamblade for my main PvP char at PC launch (!) and refused to wear a pretty dress and play with wooden sticks.
Anyone who thinks 1.5 was balanced was part of the pretty dress meta, simple as that ...I played a very viable Stam build in 1.5.
Was amazing in group play, open world, and in duels I could go toe to toe with FoTM Magica DKs.
To think I once got respect for having a Stam build, makes me giggle.
Nothing to see here folks, @Manoekin just provided proof the current game is balanced!
You might actually be an idiot man. The only thing magicka has going for it is destro ult. If your idea of balance is to add an ult that's just a prox det that goes off every second for 10(?) seconds I really don't want to play any games you have a hand in. Aside from that you have no reason to be magicka unless you're healing. A lot of people prefer magicka, but it's just simply not as good and that's an unbiased fact. 1.4/1.5 had actual balance, even between stam/magicka. It wasn't around long enough to develop past stam = ganker. Steve kinda figured it out imo. I remember him from back then and he really stood out not just because he was stam, but because he made just as much of an impact as the other players around him. If you look back on the game's history no one figured out that negate was a good ultimate until like a month into the game (lol). It took at least 2-3 patches before Krim figured out nightblades could not only compete but be potentially the best class in the game when played right. Before that every nightblade used a bow or they rerolled. DK builds evolved a lot from launch to 1.5. A lot of changes to gear/stat distributions. Templars weren't even the preferred healers early on. Sorc resto heals were insanely stronger and they had better sustain. None of these things happened because of buffs/nerfs, but just because players figured things out. The ability was there, just player ingenuity hadn't gotten to the point where stam became widespread outside of gankers.
TLDR, redesigning your entire game when it was working well wasn't the answer.
This is a good summary.
One of the big problems with early days ESO is that most mechanics were hidden from the players. Thus we had no feedback to discover things except by fighting, hence the slow pace of discovery on NB and Templar builds. DKs and Sorcs had much more understandable mechanics which figured out during beta.
Can't remember if it was krim or Mojar Stalker that introduced sap tanks around 1.3/1.4. and araxleon didn't introduce the burst magicka NB until 1.5. well played Templars in 1.5 were nearly unlikable, and were hard counters to the DK (flashes plus blazing shield).
Stamina has been stronger than magicka on all classes since 1.6, with the exception of mSorc in 1.6 and mTemplar in 1.8. Magicka was stronger pre 1.6, but the gap had narrowed considerably and was largely a result of player ignorance. Good example of this given by Steve and a few others (Mrs Jones).
Regardless, ZoS decided to totally revamp a combat system that wasn't fundamentally broken. It just needed a bit more variety and continuing changes.
I'll pose the point this way: what if, instead of utilizing so much time remaking stat values and combat they had focused on balance and content additions within the system they already had? I bet they would be six months ahead in content than they are now, the balance would be better, and more players would play. God it took 18 months from launch to see imperial city!
Azoi was also runnin sap tank around the same time as krim and I, but I actually think gottbeard may have been one of the first to start running it. I don't think any of us knew of each other at the time though lol.
As far as the sap build, I cant say i started it first. But im pretty sure mine was the most baller.
Not much for humility are you?0 -
krim✭✭✭✭✭God_flakes wrote: »IxSTALKERxI wrote: »
Using your logic, quoting the guy who just posted that magicka is still overpowered in PvP proofs that there is no current magicka meta.Nope, absolutely hated the harry potter dress wearing fotm that lasted for months and months:P
I rolled a Stamblade for my main PvP char at PC launch (!) and refused to wear a pretty dress and play with wooden sticks.
Anyone who thinks 1.5 was balanced was part of the pretty dress meta, simple as that ...I played a very viable Stam build in 1.5.
Was amazing in group play, open world, and in duels I could go toe to toe with FoTM Magica DKs.
To think I once got respect for having a Stam build, makes me giggle.
Nothing to see here folks, @Manoekin just provided proof the current game is balanced!
You might actually be an idiot man. The only thing magicka has going for it is destro ult. If your idea of balance is to add an ult that's just a prox det that goes off every second for 10(?) seconds I really don't want to play any games you have a hand in. Aside from that you have no reason to be magicka unless you're healing. A lot of people prefer magicka, but it's just simply not as good and that's an unbiased fact. 1.4/1.5 had actual balance, even between stam/magicka. It wasn't around long enough to develop past stam = ganker. Steve kinda figured it out imo. I remember him from back then and he really stood out not just because he was stam, but because he made just as much of an impact as the other players around him. If you look back on the game's history no one figured out that negate was a good ultimate until like a month into the game (lol). It took at least 2-3 patches before Krim figured out nightblades could not only compete but be potentially the best class in the game when played right. Before that every nightblade used a bow or they rerolled. DK builds evolved a lot from launch to 1.5. A lot of changes to gear/stat distributions. Templars weren't even the preferred healers early on. Sorc resto heals were insanely stronger and they had better sustain. None of these things happened because of buffs/nerfs, but just because players figured things out. The ability was there, just player ingenuity hadn't gotten to the point where stam became widespread outside of gankers.
TLDR, redesigning your entire game when it was working well wasn't the answer.
This is a good summary.
One of the big problems with early days ESO is that most mechanics were hidden from the players. Thus we had no feedback to discover things except by fighting, hence the slow pace of discovery on NB and Templar builds. DKs and Sorcs had much more understandable mechanics which figured out during beta.
Can't remember if it was krim or Mojar Stalker that introduced sap tanks around 1.3/1.4. and araxleon didn't introduce the burst magicka NB until 1.5. well played Templars in 1.5 were nearly unlikable, and were hard counters to the DK (flashes plus blazing shield).
Stamina has been stronger than magicka on all classes since 1.6, with the exception of mSorc in 1.6 and mTemplar in 1.8. Magicka was stronger pre 1.6, but the gap had narrowed considerably and was largely a result of player ignorance. Good example of this given by Steve and a few others (Mrs Jones).
Regardless, ZoS decided to totally revamp a combat system that wasn't fundamentally broken. It just needed a bit more variety and continuing changes.
I'll pose the point this way: what if, instead of utilizing so much time remaking stat values and combat they had focused on balance and content additions within the system they already had? I bet they would be six months ahead in content than they are now, the balance would be better, and more players would play. God it took 18 months from launch to see imperial city!
Azoi was also runnin sap tank around the same time as krim and I, but I actually think gottbeard may have been one of the first to start running it. I don't think any of us knew of each other at the time though lol.
As far as the sap build, I cant say i started it first. But im pretty sure mine was the most baller.
Not much for humility are you?
Well I am the best NB NA.5 -
God_flakes✭✭✭✭✭
✭God_flakes wrote: »
IIxSTALKERxI wrote: »
Using your logic, quoting the guy who just posted that magicka is still overpowered in PvP proofs that there is no current magicka meta.Nope, absolutely hated the harry potter dress wearing fotm that lasted for months and months:P
I rolled a Stamblade for my main PvP char at PC launch (!) and refused to wear a pretty dress and play with wooden sticks.
Anyone who thinks 1.5 was balanced was part of the pretty dress meta, simple as that ...I played a very viable Stam build in 1.5.
Was amazing in group play, open world, and in duels I could go toe to toe with FoTM Magica DKs.
To think I once got respect for having a Stam build, makes me giggle.
Nothing to see here folks, @Manoekin just provided proof the current game is balanced!
You might actually be an idiot man. The only thing magicka has going for it is destro ult. If your idea of balance is to add an ult that's just a prox det that goes off every second for 10(?) seconds I really don't want to play any games you have a hand in. Aside from that you have no reason to be magicka unless you're healing. A lot of people prefer magicka, but it's just simply not as good and that's an unbiased fact. 1.4/1.5 had actual balance, even between stam/magicka. It wasn't around long enough to develop past stam = ganker. Steve kinda figured it out imo. I remember him from back then and he really stood out not just because he was stam, but because he made just as much of an impact as the other players around him. If you look back on the game's history no one figured out that negate was a good ultimate until like a month into the game (lol). It took at least 2-3 patches before Krim figured out nightblades could not only compete but be potentially the best class in the game when played right. Before that every nightblade used a bow or they rerolled. DK builds evolved a lot from launch to 1.5. A lot of changes to gear/stat distributions. Templars weren't even the preferred healers early on. Sorc resto heals were insanely stronger and they had better sustain. None of these things happened because of buffs/nerfs, but just because players figured things out. The ability was there, just player ingenuity hadn't gotten to the point where stam became widespread outside of gankers.
TLDR, redesigning your entire game when it was working well wasn't the answer.
This is a good summary.
One of the big problems with early days ESO is that most mechanics were hidden from the players. Thus we had no feedback to discover things except by fighting, hence the slow pace of discovery on NB and Templar builds. DKs and Sorcs had much more understandable mechanics which figured out during beta.
Can't remember if it was krim or Mojar Stalker that introduced sap tanks around 1.3/1.4. and araxleon didn't introduce the burst magicka NB until 1.5. well played Templars in 1.5 were nearly unlikable, and were hard counters to the DK (flashes plus blazing shield).
Stamina has been stronger than magicka on all classes since 1.6, with the exception of mSorc in 1.6 and mTemplar in 1.8. Magicka was stronger pre 1.6, but the gap had narrowed considerably and was largely a result of player ignorance. Good example of this given by Steve and a few others (Mrs Jones).
Regardless, ZoS decided to totally revamp a combat system that wasn't fundamentally broken. It just needed a bit more variety and continuing changes.
I'll pose the point this way: what if, instead of utilizing so much time remaking stat values and combat they had focused on balance and content additions within the system they already had? I bet they would be six months ahead in content than they are now, the balance would be better, and more players would play. God it took 18 months from launch to see imperial city!
Azoi was also runnin sap tank around the same time as krim and I, but I actually think gottbeard may have been one of the first to start running it. I don't think any of us knew of each other at the time though lol.
As far as the sap build, I cant say i started it first. But im pretty sure mine was the most baller.
Not much for humility are you?
Well I am the best NB NA.
But can you rock a Harry Rosen?
0 -
Jazbay_Grape✭✭✭✭Well I am the best NB NA.[/quote]
It's quite clear that you've never seen me play then. I mean, this one time, I almost killed this CP 110 person. I was like THIS close to victory. Almost had him.
1 -
Ishammael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well I am the best NB NA.
Hahhaha
I remember back in like 1.4 truly fearing your emperorship. Granted, I was a scrub and still learning. With the exception of Meth perma-emp in 1.6 (which was more exasperating than anything else) I think that is the only emperor I've ever feared.Ultimate regen is a problem in PvP, as well as soft caps. With such low ulti regen a large number of fights come out to whoever has more ultimates (more people), or in other cases whoever actually has them available. I've been in fights where I've been negated at least six or seven times... and there's just simply nothing you can do.
As far as soft caps, they were not an issue or holding back character progression. The issue with character progression, and ZOS knew this, was that stats were so low (180 magicka regen for instance) that when you upgraded your gear it sometimes didn't even register on your character sheet because you'd just say, "wow I gained 5 whole HP". That was why they inflated the numbers. The whole CP train we're now on has no brakes, and those brakes were soft caps. What would have been so wrong with keeping soft caps in the game, and instead of CP adding pure stats have them relax the soft caps of the respective resource? That way you will see your stats increase as your CP increases, but nothing will get to the insanely out of control levels we have/had.
Simple ability nerf/buffs aren't going to fix anything. The system needs an overhaul. Nerfing/buffing is only going to shift the meta to the one setup that is now this patch 0.1% better than the other setup. You have to have a stable platform before you can start doing any of that. Another thing this brought was Battle Spirit, which is just useless. All Battle Spirit ever did was reduce diversity. We're at 50% damage reduction and still one-two shotting people because we find ways to scale our damage even higher each patch. Because of Battle Spirit many abilities might as well just be buff/debuff abilities because after the 50% nerf they are only good to counteract some health regen. Many sets that, while cool and interesting, are useless because you then can't overcome the barrier that BS puts between you and being competitive.
Agree 100% here.
I'll add a couple of things:
1. Static ultimate generation means that more players always equals more ultimate. Considering the power of ultimates in the modern meta (unblockable, uncapped stats, scaling with CP, etc) this is an enormous advantage.
2. Battle Spirit needs to go away. It is simply a band fix for a really messed up problem. The playerbase recognized this (out of control damage scaling) way back when the concept was introduced. There were even some prophetic players that saw it right when 1.6 launched. It is an unfair debuff was considering game balance as a whole. When 50% battle spirit was announced most players recognized it for what is was: "Oh crap I know something is messed up but I don't know how to fix it."
3. After a few months of 1.6 ZOS recognized the problem introduced by the CP system: unfair advantages for current playerbase, uncapped power potential on characters. These problems were largely addressed in subsequent patches by speeding up character progression and CP gains while capping allowable CPs. These were good player-driven changes, but they need to be continued.
4. Continued CP progression of characters -- which seems a given at this point -- needs to be balanced against Battle Spirit. Basically, the complete overhaul that Mano is talking about. So much is wrapped up in CPs that even with a 50% damage debuff we can still 2-shot people. On the other hand, players can construct builds that a unkillable. This has to change.
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ThyIronFist✭✭✭✭✭>people unironically still play this game
I just logged in for the first time on the forums since ages just to post this:
Keep playing fools.The Elder Zergs Online
Sainur Ironfist - DK - EU - Ebonheart Pact
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Blackfyre20✭✭✭✭Soft caps will never come back because PVE players are pretty content with the current system. That's not a knock on PVE either, I don't blame them. I'd love to see soft caps return to cyrodiil though. Change battle spirit so instead of reducing everything by 50%, introduce soft caps again. The way it is currently you need different gear for end game PVE and PVP anyway. Also I don't see the champion system conflicting with soft caps THAT much. You get max stats for just having the points so that can be removed/reworked. And then the only other thing to rework is the regen tree. Reduced costs, reduced damage taken, increased shields, increased damage done, increased healing, etc. all compliment soft caps and would allow you to build your character how you want.Buff Soft Caps0
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RadioheadSh0t✭✭✭✭✭HoloYoitsu wrote: »I miss my 1.5 heavy armor mag sorc that could get decent heals from rapid regen and didn't even need to use shields. And I miss how I was able to be innovative by putting 3 stam regen glyphs on that build, allowing it to block tank.
And for all the potatos claiming stam was just as horribly under powered then as mag is today, there are only two possibilities: you either didn't play the game back then or you had not learned how to play a proper stam build that incorporated sustain instead of being a glass cannon gank build.
Those of us on NA often refer to Steve's stam NB build, cuz he actually made full use of the tools given to him to survive and rekt face as stam when we ran small man. He was able to duel Sypher to a draw on that build, so it was hardly a matter of "some stam builds could just manage to function on the very edge of viability."
How? Steve went S&B/2 hander, unlike most of the stam players that insisted on having a bow bar and wanted to try 2 shotting with snipe. Specifically, he used shielded assault for the dmg shield and heavy attack weaves to restore stam. If it sounds pretty basic, yeah it wasn't revolutionary or anything, it's just that stam players at the time never played like that - and then went to the forums to QQ that their bow/2 hand gankblade with everything into dmg couldn't sustain.
Was there complete balance? Of course not, but it was closer to anything that this game has seen since. Once stam builds got vigor in 1.6 things started to spiral out of control.
You're right on a lot of this, wrong on some other things, or at the least omitted a lot of things.
Magicka was clearly dominant in the early part of the game. Sure, there were some viable Stam builds, but let's not forget there were soft caps and ALL class skills were magicka for quite a long time. Also, Hybrid builds were possible, and in many cases very strong. I ran a Hybrid Sorc quite a lot right after launch and it worked. These days those builds are impossible to make work in any meaningful way.
Yes, there were some good Stamblade builds and players, but the more dominant builds were on the magicka side for quite a while. The early game "Juggernaut" Magblade S&B build was arguably as strong as MagDK in the right hands.
I don't know how they compare to each other, but magicka was clearly the stronger option early, and stamina is generally the stronger option in the proc meta. I'd say it's easier to make a magicka build work now than it was for stamina in the post-launch days, but either way we've never had much balance, mostly because ZOS tends to overcompensate in their fixes.Edited by RadioheadSh0t on December 3, 2016 5:03PMAldonius Direnni - Vet Altmer Sorc (AD)
Tyrus Telvanni - Vet Dunmer DK (AD)
Al Donius Bundy - Vet Imperial NB (AD)
Aldonius Brutus - Vet Orc DK (DC)0 -
krim✭✭✭✭✭
I was never emp. Never had passives, and sadly never got to try out the emp build I had ready for it.
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Ishammael✭✭✭✭✭
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I was never emp. Never had passives, and sadly never got to try out the emp build I had ready for it.
Are you sure? Maybe I'm confusing you with Stalker. Could have sworn there is a video of it somewhere.
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krim✭✭✭✭✭
I was never emp. Never had passives, and sadly never got to try out the emp build I had ready for it.
Are you sure? Maybe I'm confusing you with Stalker. Could have sworn there is a video of it somewhere.
Never had emp passives. I'm sure. It would have been glorious though.0 -
krim✭✭✭✭✭Before 1.6 Stamina was a niche. You were a burst dmg that can 1/2 shot anyone. What it lacked was a form of healing or shielding. Theres a reason why 1.6 brought in such a huge swing in balance. Not only did the mechanics now appeal to stamina but they also got a heal. I think that people really didnt take enough time to learn and experiment and use the tools the game had prior to 1.6. Stamina had some really good synergy in groups and can be some sneaky stealthy *** and 1 shot you off your mount. A lot of misunderstanding even till this day.Edited by krim on December 3, 2016 7:56PM2
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AlexTech0x✭✭✭Star_Carrier wrote: »Yeah I'm sick of Elder Procs Online One Stamriel.
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