What's a minimum reasonable health for tanking normal and vet dungeons?

Iselin · December 2016

I know... its sort of an odd question, but my stamsorc with the Icehart monster set and his critical surge heals has gotten so tanky that I've been thinking about training S&B and slapping on a couple of heavy pieces and giving tanking a shot going DW + SB. (he also has razor caltrops and resolving vigor)

I just don't want to change my medium armor or basic stats too much. With food buff I'd be ~ 20-21K health. Will that do the trick?

bottleofsyrup · December 2016

I can't tell if this is a serious post or not.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · December 2016

It would be best 25-30k if you are going tank.

Knootewoot · December 2016

I once tanked and had 65k. They said it was to much. they told me around 25-30k was more then enough.

At 65k I had totally no DPS and expected is tanks to be versatile. DPS (10k on boss) en be able to buff/debuff.

So 30k should be fine.

Rev Rielle · December 2016

Try it and find out. You might find it works for you. I don't think it will though.
Personally I like seeing 30,000 health. Just gives room for error, if you miss a block/interrupt or something or the healer is playing with their shadow etc (maybe happened once in Spindleclutch...).

Curragraigue · December 2016

Personally for Vet Dungeons I would want to be 25k-28k for a tank's health but I mainly PUG so I need more self-sustaining stats. Are you running a shield as well, I assume not if you are stam so I would recommend more health. 23k with a healer you know should be okay I would have thought for Vet Dungeons.

Chelo · December 2016

I tank normal dungeons and Im a magblade in light armor lol... For vet dungeons you better be a tank if you want to tank, because the tank suppose to hold on the boss even if the healer is dead, actualy the healer in this game is mostly for trials or for helping the damage dealers without selfhealing skills, a good tank can survive with no healer at all...

If you are planing on tanking by been heal dependant, your healer is going to have a hard time... If you dont have hp (around the 30k), better have huge resistances, or you can try your shield stacking, I saw a sorc tank playing like that but was just once and it works for him.

Rev Rielle · December 2016

Honestly, in complete healing setup, I've used the magicka undaunted taunt and just healed myself through normal dungeons. For normal dungeons you really can play however you like, use the most convoluted, off-the-wall builds and still be successful.

As @Chelo rightly says though; for veteran dungeons if you want to tank you're best to focus on that. And that is;

Have health to take hits;
Know positioning and when to move (and when not to: Keep that boss in ground-target AoE as much as possible);
Know the signs and how and when to interrupt and block the enemy's attacks, and;
Debuff the enemy/boss to help your group deal more damage.

As far as I can tell anyways, I'm the healer, but that seems to cover the basics. I'm sure you know this anyways, it's fairly common knowledge. However point 2 and 3 many tanks seem to have no clue about, and really is an indicator that separates the good from the great ones, I think.

Iselin · December 2016

Chelo wrote: »

I tank normal dungeons and Im a magblade in light armor lol... For vet dungeons you better be a tank if you want to tank, because the tank suppose to hold on the boss even if the healer is dead, actualy the healer in this game is mostly for trials or for helping the damage dealers without selfhealing skills, a good tank can survive with no healer at all...

If you are planing on tanking by been heal dependant, your healer is going to have a hard time... If you dont have hp (around the 30k), better have huge resistances, or you can try your shield stacking, I saw a sorc tank playing like that but was just once and it works for him.

Well Icehart procs a smallish 8K shield and with my critical surge it and my once per second heal are up almost 100% just from Hurricane and Deadly Cloak (which also gives me 20% less damage taken from AOE.) Hurricane is also Major Resolve + Major Ward. I don't use the magicka Sorc damage shield but I was thinking of Bone Shield instead.

But yeah, maybe I'll have to go grind some Trainee gear in the starter islands to get my health up to the 25 K range.

WillhelmBlack · December 2016

Don't need a tank, unless you're a tank/heal. 3 DPS and a healer is optimal.

Mady · December 2016

25k is enough for normal.

Would say 30k for vet. But dungeons are actually easier with 3 DPS and 1 healer or even 4 DPS.

Chelo · December 2016

Iselin wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

I tank normal dungeons and Im a magblade in light armor lol... For vet dungeons you better be a tank if you want to tank, because the tank suppose to hold on the boss even if the healer is dead, actualy the healer in this game is mostly for trials or for helping the damage dealers without selfhealing skills, a good tank can survive with no healer at all...

If you are planing on tanking by been heal dependant, your healer is going to have a hard time... If you dont have hp (around the 30k), better have huge resistances, or you can try your shield stacking, I saw a sorc tank playing like that but was just once and it works for him.

Well Icehart procs a smallish 8K shield and with my critical surge it and my once per second heal are up almost 100% just from Hurricane and Deadly Cloak (which also gives me 20% less damage taken from AOE.) Hurricane is also Major Resolve + Major Ward. I don't use the magicka Sorc damage shield but I was thinking of Bone Shield instead.

But yeah, maybe I'll have to go grind some Trainee gear in the starter islands to get my health up to the 25 K range.

The thing is, NO source of healing is going to save you from a 1 shot. You only have 4 ways to survive getting 1 shoted as a tank:

1. Block, Dodge, Move, etc. Basically knowing the mechanic of the fight.
2. Have tons of HP, so if you get hitted anyway, maybe you can have a chance of survival.
3. If you dont have tons of HP, have tons of Resistances for the same reason above.
4. Last one, if you dont have HP, neither Resistances, stack your shields and bubbles to mitigate the dmg.

No healer or self healing could save you from a 1 shot mechanic, only if you understand how to counter that mechanic by doing 1 of those 4 points...

As a Magblade I can mitiage little sources of dmg with my own self healing, same as a SatamSorc, you can mitiage dmg with your own selfhealing while you critic, but the point is, you cant mitigate a 1 shot, thats why we have tanks.

KingYogi415 · December 2016

If your not willing to wear heavy armor, give up now.

Cheers#

Olysja · December 2016

30-35. so both tank and healer can push up dps a bit:)

akl77 · December 2016

Depend on if you have self heal, if you have good health regen.
I have good self heal, poor regen, so 22k is enough.

Wing · December 2016

I would say in the 25-30 k range

honestly I normally run with around 22k and run tri drink when I'm with my group, and very rarely on pugs (had to solo the end boss on one particular boss cause the pug kept wiping in the AoE's and the 3rd time I just didn't feel like reseting. they didn't mind and cheered me through the battle XD was very fun

that said I often run tri food even though I'm better with drink because people expect tanks to have over or around 25k and get nervous when you don't.

xericdx · December 2016

Yes, really depends on your build/sets, you don't necessary need a large health pool if you know when to block and have good sets. On my stam DK tank I am sitting on 25k.

On easy vet I have even tanked with my 16k health pvp DPS sorc (Direfrost keep for example) with no issues.

Iselin · December 2016

Chelo wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

I tank normal dungeons and Im a magblade in light armor lol... For vet dungeons you better be a tank if you want to tank, because the tank suppose to hold on the boss even if the healer is dead, actualy the healer in this game is mostly for trials or for helping the damage dealers without selfhealing skills, a good tank can survive with no healer at all...

If you are planing on tanking by been heal dependant, your healer is going to have a hard time... If you dont have hp (around the 30k), better have huge resistances, or you can try your shield stacking, I saw a sorc tank playing like that but was just once and it works for him.

Well Icehart procs a smallish 8K shield and with my critical surge it and my once per second heal are up almost 100% just from Hurricane and Deadly Cloak (which also gives me 20% less damage taken from AOE.) Hurricane is also Major Resolve + Major Ward. I don't use the magicka Sorc damage shield but I was thinking of Bone Shield instead.

But yeah, maybe I'll have to go grind some Trainee gear in the starter islands to get my health up to the 25 K range.

The thing is, NO source of healing is going to save you from a 1 shot. You only have 4 ways to survive getting 1 shoted as a tank:

1. Block, Dodge, Move, etc. Basically knowing the mechanic of the fight.
2. Have tons of HP, so if you get hitted anyway, maybe you can have a chance of survival.
3. If you dont have tons of HP, have tons of Resistances for the same reason above.
4. Last one, if you dont have HP, neither Resistances, stack your shields and bubbles to mitigate the dmg.

No healer or self healing could save you from a 1 shot mechanic, only if you understand how to counter that mechanic by doing 1 of those 4 points...

As a Magblade I can mitiage little sources of dmg with my own self healing, same as a SatamSorc, you can mitiage dmg with your own selfhealing while you critic, but the point is, you cant mitigate a 1 shot, thats why we have tanks.

I do agree with everything you're saying and I'm very aware of the one-shot mechanics, dodges, blocks, interrupts, etc. You're emphasizing what will get you through a one-shot if everything goes wrong and that's reasonable.

I may be wrong but I haven't seen many bosses do more than 20K one-shots even on my light armor wearing classes when I run dungeons with those. Maybe HM is a different story but I haven't run everything in vet HM so I'm sure I must be missing some.

GreasyDave · December 2016

Depends on your tanking skills.

We got a new guildie after one tamriel who'd not played ESO but had played a ton of other MMO's. He raced to 160CP on a DK and spread his stats and armour glyphs so he had a 20 k health and high stam with a medium armour set for dps and a heavy armour set with health glyphs for tanking. The heavy tanking set put him above 25k health but I can't remember how much higher tbh

He tanked like he'd been playing ESO since beta. Very good player. UNfortunately he's vanished into the ESO churn and gone to play something else.

But try out different glyphs and see. Swapping glyphs costs very little.

Kirameku · December 2016

30k is enough for any content

Messy1 · December 2016

No more than 15k

Peekachu99 · December 2016

Blazing shield tanks work well with more HP. Also massive HP pools and mitigation let you cheese mechanics you otherwise could not. For example, with 65K health and capped resistances, you can eat an exploding Atro in WGT or take any of the CoS bosses' hits to the face. I've wandered around the general's room in vet CoS after all the other players died while killing adds and casually rezzed or polished off the phase myself. Massive HP are an incredible asset if you plan accordingly.

If you go this route, and spec for group support and utility (Ebon Armory, Warhorn, Defuffs, Snares, Molten Armaments), people will love you.

I can solo every vet dungeon boss with any of my four tanks, with the except for RoM, where the totem drains you--but I'm working on a fix for that

If you're going to tank, I say go all in and absolutely control the battlefield and be the linchpin that keeps your party alive and functioning.

A good, undefeatable tank can turn around the flow of any battle, no matter how bleak the odds.

code65536 · December 2016

Knootewoot wrote: »

I once tanked and had 65k. They said it was to much. they told me around 25-30k was more then enough.

At 65k I had totally no DPS and expected is tanks to be versatile. DPS (10k on boss) en be able to buff/debuff.

So 30k should be fine.

It's not about tank DPS. It's about your ability to survive and provide support. With that much health, you've sacrificed too many resources. It means you don't have the resource pool to cast many resource abilities. It also means that you don't have much stamina to block, and 65K health can be eaten away very, very quickly in difficult vet content. Health is not that useful in this game. Being able to block and having the resources to self-heal or self-shield is far more important to your survival than your health pool. The only type of tank that could make sense with that kind of health level is a Blazing Shield Templar tank. But even that has limitations, since certain bosses have attacks that must be blocked or else you'll be CC'ed or knocked around.

And to answer OP's question, it depends on the content.

For normal dungeons, I tank as a magblade in my full DPS setup: 17-18K health and light armor. The only concessions are that I run sword-and-shield on my back bar and slot an Undaunted taunt. There are a few exceptions, though; the only bosses in normal dungeons where I actually put on my heavy armor are: Overfiend (ICP), Flesh Abomination (ICP--not because he hits very hard, but pretty much everything he does will knock you down, so there's a lot more blocking required), Dranos (CoS), Velidreth (CoS), Chudan (RoM--though if you're quick about reacting to and harnessing through his spit, you can survive in light armor), Xal-Nur (RoM), Skoria (CoA2--I've tanked him in light armor--hell, I've even soloed him--but the margin for error is a bit too thin for comfort). If you're familiar with all the bosses--what their tells are, what their hard-hitting attacks are, what must be blocked or dodged--then you should have no trouble tanking normal dungeons in light armor and 17-18K health.

For veteran dungeons, I've tanked every one of them, including the SotH ones, with only 25K health. And there are some encounters in vet dungeons that I do in my light armor DPS setup; e.g., Planar Inhibitor in vWGT (the classic example), the entire vet Vaults dungeon (nothing in vVoM needs a tank), Drodda in vet Direfrost (she can be "taunted", but her positioning and even her basic light attacks all ignore that taunt, so there really is no point in having a tank), Selene in vet Selene's Web (her only dangerous attack is the bear attack which you must sidestep else it will 1-shot even a 30K health full heavy-armor permablocking tank; aside from that, she hits like a wet noodle, so I always go full DPS on her--even on vet HM--with just a taunt to turn her bear away from the group), Grobull and Engine Guardian in Darkshade 2, and the final bosses of Spindle 2 and CoA1.

For vet trials, I've tanked every one of them, including vMoL, with 30K health.

Peekachu99 · December 2016

code65536 wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

I once tanked and had 65k. They said it was to much. they told me around 25-30k was more then enough.

At 65k I had totally no DPS and expected is tanks to be versatile. DPS (10k on boss) en be able to buff/debuff.

So 30k should be fine.

It's not about tank DPS. It's about your ability to survive and provide support. With that much health, you've sacrificed too many resources. It means you don't have the resource pool to cast many resource abilities. It also means that you don't have much stamina to block, and 65K health can be eaten away very, very quickly in difficult vet content. Health is not that useful in this game. Being able to block and having the resources to self-heal or self-shield is far more important to your survival than your health pool. The only type of tank that could make sense with that kind of health level is a Blazing Shield Templar tank. But even that has limitations, since certain bosses have attacks that must be blocked or else you'll be CC'ed or knocked around.

And to answer OP's question, it depends on the content.

For normal dungeons, I tank as a magblade in my full DPS setup: 17-18K health and light armor. The only concessions are that I run sword-and-shield on my back bar and slot an Undaunted taunt. There are a few exceptions, though; the only bosses in normal dungeons where I actually put on my heavy armor are: Overfiend (ICP), Flesh Abomination (ICP--not because he hits very hard, but pretty much everything he does will knock you down, so there's a lot more blocking required), Dranos (CoS), Velidreth (CoS), Chudan (RoM--though if you're quick about reacting to and harnessing through his spit, you can survive in light armor), Xal-Nur (RoM), Skoria (CoA2--I've tanked him in light armor--hell, I've even soloed him--but the margin for error is a bit too thin for comfort). If you're familiar with all the bosses--what their tells are, what their hard-hitting attacks are, what must be blocked or dodged--then you should have no trouble tanking normal dungeons in light armor and 17-18K health.

For veteran dungeons, I've tanked every one of them, including the SotH ones, with only 25K health. And there are some encounters in vet dungeons that I do in my light armor DPS setup; e.g., Planar Inhibitor in vWGT (the classic example), the entire vet Vaults dungeon (nothing in vVoM needs a tank), Drodda in vet Direfrost (she can be "taunted", but her positioning and even her basic light attacks all ignore that taunt, so there really is no point in having a tank), Selene in vet Selene's Web (her only dangerous attack is the bear attack which you must sidestep else it will 1-shot even a 30K health full heavy-armor permablocking tank; aside from that, she hits like a wet noodle, so I always go full DPS on her--even on vet HM--with just a taunt to turn her bear away from the group), Grobull and Engine Guardian in Darkshade 2, and the final bosses of Spindle 2 and CoA1.

For vet trials, I've tanked every one of them, including vMoL, with 30K health.

Sorry, the bolded part isn't true. You can reach 2.7k sustain or higher with a 50-65K health pool. Especially with regen enchants and Wrothgar food. Add in the HA passives and a single heavy swing and you're at over 3k regen/s (factoring in that regen is only every 2s and the passive every 4). You could go even crazier with sets like Seducer if you wanted-- but that's overkill. Trust me, you literally never run out of resources even if the pool itself is tiny. On my magika tanks I can spam taunts on each mob without ever running out of stam, and this is even easier on tanks with a stam primary resource pool. Factor in block reduction and you're only sacrificing a bit of dps, which you'd never do as well as a competent dps anyway.

Plus stuff like rattlecage or the newer sets can be swapped on the fly to provide additional burst without sacrificing your whole build or HP pool. Your resource pool is only part of the damage calculation, most comes from the flat spell/weapon damage, which is easily inflated.

But it is "play your way", so I'm not saying my way is better, just that it doesn't have as many disadvantages as people might think.

Peekachu99 · December 2016

Peekachu99 wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

I once tanked and had 65k. They said it was to much. they told me around 25-30k was more then enough.

At 65k I had totally no DPS and expected is tanks to be versatile. DPS (10k on boss) en be able to buff/debuff.

So 30k should be fine.

It's not about tank DPS. It's about your ability to survive and provide support. With that much health, you've sacrificed too many resources. It means you don't have the resource pool to cast many resource abilities. It also means that you don't have much stamina to block, and 65K health can be eaten away very, very quickly in difficult vet content. Health is not that useful in this game. Being able to block and having the resources to self-heal or self-shield is far more important to your survival than your health pool. The only type of tank that could make sense with that kind of health level is a Blazing Shield Templar tank. But even that has limitations, since certain bosses have attacks that must be blocked or else you'll be CC'ed or knocked around.

And to answer OP's question, it depends on the content.

For normal dungeons, I tank as a magblade in my full DPS setup: 17-18K health and light armor. The only concessions are that I run sword-and-shield on my back bar and slot an Undaunted taunt. There are a few exceptions, though; the only bosses in normal dungeons where I actually put on my heavy armor are: Overfiend (ICP), Flesh Abomination (ICP--not because he hits very hard, but pretty much everything he does will knock you down, so there's a lot more blocking required), Dranos (CoS), Velidreth (CoS), Chudan (RoM--though if you're quick about reacting to and harnessing through his spit, you can survive in light armor), Xal-Nur (RoM), Skoria (CoA2--I've tanked him in light armor--hell, I've even soloed him--but the margin for error is a bit too thin for comfort). If you're familiar with all the bosses--what their tells are, what their hard-hitting attacks are, what must be blocked or dodged--then you should have no trouble tanking normal dungeons in light armor and 17-18K health.

For veteran dungeons, I've tanked every one of them, including the SotH ones, with only 25K health. And there are some encounters in vet dungeons that I do in my light armor DPS setup; e.g., Planar Inhibitor in vWGT (the classic example), the entire vet Vaults dungeon (nothing in vVoM needs a tank), Drodda in vet Direfrost (she can be "taunted", but her positioning and even her basic light attacks all ignore that taunt, so there really is no point in having a tank), Selene in vet Selene's Web (her only dangerous attack is the bear attack which you must sidestep else it will 1-shot even a 30K health full heavy-armor permablocking tank; aside from that, she hits like a wet noodle, so I always go full DPS on her--even on vet HM--with just a taunt to turn her bear away from the group), Grobull and Engine Guardian in Darkshade 2, and the final bosses of Spindle 2 and CoA1.

For vet trials, I've tanked every one of them, including vMoL, with 30K health.

Sorry, the bolded part isn't true. You can reach 2.7k sustain or higher with a 50-65K health pool. Especially with regen enchants and Wrothgar food. Add in the HA passives and a single heavy swing and you're at over 3k regen/s (factoring in that regen is only every 2s and the passive every 4). You could go even crazier with sets like Seducer if you wanted-- but that's overkill. Trust me, you literally never run out of resources even if the pool itself is tiny. On my magika tanks I can spam taunts on each mob without ever running out of stam, and this is even easier on tanks with a stam primary resource pool. Factor in block reduction and you're only sacrificing a bit of dps, which you'd never do as well as a competent dps anyway.

Plus stuff like rattlecage or the newer sets can be swapped on the fly to provide additional burst without sacrificing your whole build or HP pool. Your resource pool is only part of the damage calculation, most comes from the flat spell/weapon damage, which is easily inflated.

But it is "play your way", so I'm not saying my way is better, just that it doesn't have as many disadvantages as people might think.

P.S. Chudan's spit can be SUPER cheesed by using the sword and board morphed to reflection. His shots do 65-100k (crit, latter case) to HIMSELF. Lol it's hysterical.

P.S.S. No idea why I quoted myself, but Selene's bear and the black poison (just stand in it and pop a shield--any shield--between heavy weaves) on FG 2 can also be trivialized with HP and resistances.

code65536 · December 2016

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Sorry, the bolded part isn't true. You can reach 2.7k sustain or higher with a 50-65K health pool.

Stam regen doesn't help because it's zeroed during block. As for magicka, I still prefer a larger pool than a smaller pool. A lot of things need to happen in bursts, and regen ticks at a painfully slow rate of just once every 2 seconds. For example, at the start of a pull, I might chain in 4-5 targets and then lock them in with talons. You can't do that with a small pool.

And the fact remains that health is a very weak resource in this game. It's simply much more efficient and practical to survive through healing and shielding than through having a large health pool.

As with many things in this game, it can work. But it won't work as well.

Peekachu99 wrote: »

P.S. Chudan's spit can be SUPER cheesed by using the sword and board morphed to reflection. His shots do 65-100k (crit, latter case) to HIMSELF. Lol it's hysterical.

Yes, it's a lot of fun with DK wings.

lolo_01b16_ESO · December 2016

It depends on how you like to tank. If you tank with ~20k you should be very familiar with the boss fights and know how hard which attack hits, so you can decide when it's better to dodge instead of blocking.

xX_NachtJager_xx · December 2016

Let's put this to bed, and I'm sure some have already said it. I just didn't feel like reading, but you do NOT need 60k health to be a good tank. If you have 25-30 k health and your physical and spell resist is about 30-32K buffed then you will be just fine. Also make sure to have some self sustaining abilities like vigor or obsidian shield. And if you have a competent healer you probably will not die in a vanilla dungeon unless you mess up.

code65536 · December 2016

xX_NachtJager_xx wrote: »

and your physical and spell resist is about 30-32K buffed

You don't need that much resist. Hitting resist cap is overkill after the Update 9 CP overhaul that gave everyone a truckload of mit from the red tree.

sneakymitchell · December 2016

30k close to it.

Tonturri · December 2016

I use 24-25k on my argonian magblade. I've even gone as low as 22k (though definitely not for the harder dungeons - did the vet Hist dungeons with ~24k).