Vote kick feature is being seriously abused...

Khaos_Bane · November 2016

To the OP, not sure why you reported them for harassment because it's not that at all. You should have just moved onto the next group. CP does not always matter, believe me, but there are times when it's appropriate to be the proper CP.

In some of the more difficult dungeons, DLC Vet HM you shouldn't walk in as a 50 cp player. That simply isn't respectful to the group. However, this is a situation that is extreme.

Today I was called "Elitist"

I am more irritated by the "play your way" high CP people in Vet group dungeon content. Here is something that happened to me just today. We had a CP 106 Tank running with us for the first time in vCoA II . I was ok with this as a well geared max CP healer. He stated he was new and just wanted someone to guide him through the dungeon. I told him about each encounter, and told him if he did something right or wrong and he learned the dungeon.

On the OTHER HAND, we had a 800+ CP sorc MAG DPS in the group that had 30k+ health and the DPS was TERRIBLE. I did not say a word the entire time until we got to scoria and wiped. The last platform on vet HM was destroyed and the boss was at 75% health. I said we need to step the DPS up or we may not be able to complete the Dungeon. The 800+ CP sorc immediately told me to stop whining and encounters take longer, that's when I just had to chime in...

I simply stated a fact, that adjustments need to be made to increase DPS, so make skill/gear/rotation changes if needed. You don't need 30k + health as a MAG sorc...an 800+ CP player should know this. Oh the player said she was playing "her way" as she told me. I said that's fine to play the game your way, but there are three other people in this group and this dungeon should have taken about half the time. I'm not trying to insult anyone, just stating fact at that people need to consider others when playing group content. Was she trolling or just being stubborn?

When there are high CP players that have no clue what they are doing with builds and play have zero issue kicking them for the benefit of the group. I also don't get offended when they get made, nor do I have concerns for their "feelings". If they want to play the more difficult group content then they should be geared for it and have a reasonable build for it. Don't feel bad about kicking them AT ALL, you will be called names but they are the players wasting time for others.

svartorn · November 2016

Sorry, but usually everyone under 200 CP is not only bad, they refuse to follow directions.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar · November 2016

Oh this thread is back..

Chuckar0o · November 2016

Heavily depends on the Dungeon. I ran crypt of hearts several times last night. did a quick 15 min run with 500+cp (im 561 fyi), then right after another run with a cp71 and two 200cp guys. decided the run is easy enough so i didnt leave or anything. they were impressed i didnt leaving seeing how low there cp was. Just had to say to them I too was once a 70cp scrub jokingly lol The run took longer but i didnt mind to much.

svartorn · November 2016

Chuckar0o wrote: »

Heavily depends on the Dungeon. I ran crypt of hearts several times last night. did a quick 15 min run with 500+cp (im 561 fyi), then right after another run with a cp71 and two 200cp guys. decided the run is easy enough so i didnt leave or anything. they were impressed i didnt leaving seeing how low there cp was. Just had to say to them I too was once a 70cp scrub jokingly lol The run took longer but i didnt mind to much.

Normal CoH is soloable.

Now try to accomplish your daily pledges with that CP 200 who's not even wearing proper sets - probably also a snipe spammer.

Chuckar0o · November 2016

svartorn wrote: »

Now try to accomplish your daily pledges with that CP 200 who's not even wearing proper sets - probably also a snipe spammer.

Ironically, he was using a Bow

lol like I said. depends on the Dungeon if it was Mazzatun or Cradle I would have just dropped out.

Xsorus · November 2016

Here is my thoughts on this.

If I queue for a vet dungeon, and you end up in my party and you're less then 160CP..you're an ***.

With that said I will give you a chance...If we go to the first boss and it takes forever and its just one of you..I'm going to vote kick you...If its more then one I will simply leave group...I refuse to group with people who go into vet dungeons who aren't even the base 160 vet level.....

Do Normal Dungeons till you get there...you're not getting any VR160 gear anyway and you're just wasting every ones time.

Khairiah · November 2016

I meet more incompetent cp561 players than low cp'ers.. Also I often get groups where the others start vote kicking the low guys, I always vote no and ask why.. but no one has balls to stand up for the vote kick.

Doctordarkspawn · November 2016

People want people who can do high DPS for dungeons. Whether it be the guys who still run vet or the guys who have moved to normal because vet is too much work.

kevlarto_ESO · November 2016

players policing players never a good thing, will always be abused for some absurd reasons.

Bobby_V_Rockit · November 2016

Dungeons shod be level gated. Stop grouping 3 level 20's to do nWGT. I dont mind running with low levels so long as the dungeon is still possible in a timely manner

Doctordarkspawn · November 2016

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Dungeons shod be level gated. Stop grouping 3 level 20's to do nWGT. I dont mind running with low levels so long as the dungeon is still possible in a timely manner

Or, here is a thought.

Have a DPS test. Everyone gotta pass it in order to group who groups DPS. A tank needs to stay alive under heavy fire with moderate heals. A healer needs to keep a target alive.

If they fail, actually -help them- based on class, give sample builds. you know. Teaching people how to use the system better than this games crap tutorial.

ArchMikem · November 2016

Paneross wrote: »

I'm guilty of this. I find 99% of randoms with lower CP don't know what their doing, don't output enough dps, don't heal, don't know mechanics. We shouldn't have to babysit lower CP levels. It's rude on their part to waste the time of others who are trying to do a quick dungeon.

I'm utterly appalled at this statement and the amount of agrees it has.

Humatiel · November 2016

ArchMikem wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

I'm guilty of this. I find 99% of randoms with lower CP don't know what their doing, don't output enough dps, don't heal, don't know mechanics. We shouldn't have to babysit lower CP levels. It's rude on their part to waste the time of others who are trying to do a quick dungeon.

I'm utterly appalled at this statement and the amount of agrees it has.

thats funny, this statement sums up my entire mindset in such a beautiful way. The one small concession I will give to this is any normal pledge it really doesnt matter who is there since it can be soloed. For any vet pledge (1 or 2) if your below 160 its an insta kick, even then if your below 300 we'll give it one attempt on the first boss before the same outcome is met.

Silver_Strider · November 2016

Really, I am max CP and really don't care if I get lowbies cause I'm good enough to carry most groups thru the dungeon (excluding DLC dungeons obviously). People who kick lowbies for any reason other than harassment, being afk, or because they aren't listening to advice and are a hinderance because of it, really aren't justified at all.

Achievements and the like don't entitle you to kick people because you feel they would be a hinderance to your perfect, speed run.

jircris11 · November 2016

honestly i have been kicked more times from dungeons then i care to admit. i am only CP 280 and people think due to that i have no clue what to do when in reality i run these with my guild weekly and even end up being the carry half the time with randoms. hell i had 2 450cps fail miserably at it while i picked them up and continued to do what needed to be done to finish the run. in the end i did the work while they took dirt naps. CP means crap on these games and until people get their head out of their stink hole the community will not grow better but instead grow apart. normal players and elitest and that is not what we want. Do not want randoms? do not use the group tool.

Malmai · November 2016

Never go pubs.

Johngo0036 · November 2016

Paneross wrote: »

I'm guilty of this. I find 99% of randoms with lower CP don't know what their doing, don't output enough dps, don't heal, don't know mechanics. We shouldn't have to babysit lower CP levels. It's rude on their part to waste the time of others who are trying to do a quick dungeon.

This is not what a healthy community is about,
If you dont show them the ropes who will.....???

I use groupfinder alot and never just kick low cp,
As a tank you dont need High cp to perform well,
EVEN in Vet dungeons...

Xsorus · November 2016

Its simple; don't do Vet Dungeons under 160....Don't be a jackass basically......

you know damn well you're not ready for Vet Dungeons... and any gear you get will not be used once ya hit 160 either...So you're basically making everyone who has to carry you through the dungeon waste their time...

Vrienda · November 2016

Sadly there's a lot of elitists in the MMO community. There's little ZOS can do other than nerf veteran dungeons to the ground (Which wouldn't be a bad thing imo) so that said elitists have less reason to kick low CP players.

DoccEff · November 2016

Aeula wrote: »

Sadly there's a lot of elitists in the MMO community. There's little ZOS can do other than nerf veteran dungeons to the ground (Which wouldn't be a bad thing imo) so that said elitists have less reason to kick low CP players.

Tryxus · November 2016

Hi, just dropped in to mention I just 3 manned vVoM with a CP296 DD and a CP260 Tank. kthxbai

(meaning vet dungeons are the right difficulty and lower CP doesn't matter)

Doctordarkspawn · November 2016

Aeula wrote: »

Sadly there's a lot of elitists in the MMO community. There's little ZOS can do other than nerf veteran dungeons to the ground (Which wouldn't be a bad thing imo) so that said elitists have less reason to kick low CP players.

This is exactly what needs to happen. People will post facepalm gifs and hate but the sad fact is most of them probably dont care about what it's done to the community.

People will continue to argue for difficult content, reguardless of how much of a rift forms between the elite who can now do them without suffering noobs, and the noobs with no one to teach them. Now that we've experienced it for a patch, I can safely say, this is not sustainable.

I told people so, around Shadows of the Hist. I predicted this. Isn't this what you wanted? Isn't this elitist hardcore-pandering landscape what you wanted? Then you shouldn't have asked for it. If you want difficulty, you want everything that comes with it, and this is precisely what comes with it.

daedalusAI · December 2016

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Dungeons shod be level gated. Stop grouping 3 level 20's to do nWGT. I dont mind running with low levels so long as the dungeon is still possible in a timely manner

Or, here is a thought.

Have a DPS test. Everyone gotta pass it in order to group who groups DPS. A tank needs to stay alive under heavy fire with moderate heals. A healer needs to keep a target alive.

If they fail, actually -help them- based on class, give sample builds. you know. Teaching people how to use the system better than this games crap tutorial.

FF14 offers that sort of test or rather tutorial on how to tank, heal, dps while avoiding the red circles on the ground in multiple lessons starting from the basics up to some sort of boss fight with spawning adds and you even receive a nice armor set to start dungeon with.

All ESO offers is that intro in which you learn how to light and heavy attack, how to sneak, how to avoid like 1 aoe on the bone colossus and that's all in teaching new players.

So before there is some sort of dps test there should be a proper tutorial.

RnB010 · December 2016

Paneross wrote: »

I'm guilty of this. I find 99% of randoms with lower CP don't know what their doing, don't output enough dps, don't heal, don't know mechanics. We shouldn't have to babysit lower CP levels. It's rude on their part to waste the time of others who are trying to do a quick dungeon.

But who are you to decide if someone falls into that category without even seeing him/her in action?
Admitted, sometimes the lack of experience/skill is obvious from the start (tanks with bows and such)
Other than those occasions, just give people a chance to show their worth.

I also find ALOT of max lvl players who perform awfull. Like REALLY awfull so CP levels arent even the real issue.
If people would stop being so presumptious and start being more sociable everyone would be having a better time ingame.

PS
Starting a VK in a group full of randoms is so lame. Just leave the group yourself man.

Kolache · December 2016

I'm starting to flip-flop on this issue, (maybe as I get higher CP?)

I don't really care about the prospect of carrying anyone, high or low CP. I'm not going to yell at anyone for being too low or not doing their role well. I pretty much just treat other people as AI and do the best I can until the rare instance of "this isn't going to work" when I leave. Sometimes I carry, sometimes I get carried.

The reason I agreed to 2 votes to kick sub-160CP players from 2 different pugs last night is because everyone was there to farm/trade CP160 set pieces on a veteran dungeon that wasn't the pledge. It was because that person's loot not being in our collective pile is sort of like getting 25% less loot per boss.

Not proud of it, but not exactly feeling bad about it. Just figured I'd share since most of the conversations regarding kicking lower CP players seem to be about whether or not they can contribute to the fights/should be given a chance, etc.

Artis · December 2016

code65536 wrote: »

Ugh, some of the behavior here is just disgusting.

Yesterday, I was doing a random normal on my alt account for the CP leveling. I got nWGT.

The four players are:
Healer: somewhere between CP200-300

Tank: CP30-40

DPS: Level 10

DPS: me, CP320

Immediately, there is a vote to kick the level 10 that's in the group. I vote no, and the kick fails. Another vote. And I vote no again. This happens a few times before the tank speaks up and screams in all-caps "THIS IS THE HARDEST DUNGEON IN THE GAME" (lol, please, only 4th hardest) and that we simply cannot have a level 10 in the group. And does another vote-kick, which I again veto.

At this point, I explain to the level 10, who by now has said that this is his first week playing the game, that WGT is indeed harder than most other dungeons and not a good place for a newbie. That he should probably leave, but that I would not forcibly kick him. It's amazing what a little bit of courtesy like actual communication can do, because at that point the lowbie thanks me for explaining the situation and offers to leave on his own if I want him out of the group (and only if I want him out; he doesn't care what the other two want because the other two didn't bother to treat him with any respect). At this point, I just wanted to spite that *** of a tank, so I said that he can stay and that I have no qualms about carrying him (all normal dungeons are jokes and except for certain mechanics, can be soloed by any good player), and the tank then threatens to leave if the level 10 isn't removed.

Anyway, we do a pull, and it turns out that this tank who is so hell-bent on vote-kicking doesn't even have a taunt and just runs around attacking with a bow. After that pull, I commented that if there's anyone who needs to be kicked, it's a "tank" who doesn't have a taunt. The "tank" rage-quits, I slot the Undaunted taunt on my off-bar, and we proceed through the dungeon until the Group Finder gets us a replacement tank (a level 13 player, but at least he has a taunt). Anyway, we complete nWGT with no difficulty, and the two lowbies were good about following instructions regarding mechanics. Yes, I did carry the group and did 70-90% of the DPS, but if I was not prepared for the possibility of having to carry people, then I should not have PUG'ed in the first place.
Use vote-kick only as a last resort. Talk to people. This is supposed to be a social game, so stop being so anti-social. It's amazing how receptive most people are to reasonable, polite requests. For example, last week, I picked up someone from zone chat for a vet DLC pledge, and they were sub-CP160. I asked if they had ever completed this dungeon in vet mode, and then explained that it was very difficult and not really suitable for someone with limited experience, and they left on their own. Or in yesterday's nWGT pledge, after I explained things to the level 10, they offered to leave if I wanted them to.

For normal dungeons, any good player should be able to solo it (except for a few places where boss mechanics get in the way). In my experience, the people who most want to kick are the players who want people to carry them and are aghast at the possibility of actually having that turned around on them.

CP is overrated. I guarantee you that my alt account with around 300 CP can out-DPS most of the CP-capped 561 players you'd find in a random group. Skill is more important than levels, and I've seen way too many CP561 players who do things like Ambush-spam, light-attack spam, etc. Even in groups with good CP-capped players, my alt account would often match them in DPS simply because I have a cleaner, tighter rotation. Of course, someone with equal or better skill will do better than me with their higher CP, but the point is that skill level and experience matter more than CP and levels.

I love it when good guys win in the end.

pattyLtd · December 2016

NERFING VET DUNGEONS IS DEFINETLY NOT THE ANSWER.
Just get rid of the stupid penalty it is clearly a failed attempt to fix something in the group finder.

Vet dungeons should be hard as hell maybe even impossible to complete without high cp or very high skill.
If you think they are to hard you probably just not ready for them.

Personally i think they are mostly pretty easy besides icp, rom amd cos i still rarely beat those which is good.
Still got some l2p stuff left and all

Blackfyre20 · December 2016

Get rid of the 15 minute grouping tool penalty. I made another thread about getting kicked as a tank in easy dungeons because I was a sorc using shields to tank with staves (Please nobody respond to this telling me there is more to tanking than holding aggro, I am very aware of this but there are a lot of dungeons where a tank holding bosses aggroed in one place while doing dps is all that is necessary). But getting kicked from a dungeon because one player who does know what hes doing initiated a vote and the other two just clicked yes because that means it is someone else's fault should not carry a penalty. Also If I want to leave a group of three very low/no CP players or just three players who don't know what is going on I should not be penalized for that.

Salvas_Aren · December 2018