Maintenance for the week of January 5:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 5
• NA megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 5
• NA megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
Vote kick feature is being seriously abused...
-
Stopnaggin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Maybe if you didn't suck at the game the majority wouldn't vote to kick lowbies.
Yet another troll comment. Everyone has a learning curve in this game, some are hardcore others are casuals. Just because you want to have a bigger e-peen, doesn't have to make life harder on others. Don't wanna group with low cp? Just do it with friends. No one in their right mind would expect a veteran group to just magically appear front gf. It still doesn't change the fact that the 15 min penalty is crap,
All the get gud, l2p is not offering anything constructive to any conversation. All the assumptions around cp being the indicator of skill is false. Many lower cps can outplay cap cp players. A lvl 27 kicking the crap out of a cp cap player in duels is enough proof that skills outweigh level.
6 -
DPShiro✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stopnaggin wrote: »Stopnaggin wrote: »For real people, taking time out of your day to teach someone a few things isn't going to kill any of you. Sometimes you don't find great players but sometimes you can make great players.
Most good players have spent time to learn the game, why can't other new players do the same?
My game time is limited, and I am going to spend that doing things I want to do, things that brings me enjoyment. Helping lazy players is not fun imo.
Invest the time and learn yourself, don't complain when other people don't want to carry your lazy behind.
If I got paid to learn lazy, entitled people play a game, that would be another story.
So you just came out and ran vet dungeons with no knowledge of any of the mechanics. I guess there were no hi cp players in your groups back then. Being lazy is another story, some people actually want to learn. If they don't want to learn then I'm fine with kicking them but if you offer advise and they heed that advise they are willing to learn. But you know good luck with learning anything if you can't find a group because you keep getting kicked because of lower cp.
Yes most good players took time to learn the game but according to your statement they must have been lazy at some point, because someone had to have carried them right?
It's not my job, or responsibility, to teach people.
If people are new, or don't know dungeon mechanics etc - use internet! It's quite a handy tool nowadays and not at all the temporary sensation or flavor of the month some thought it would be.
Or they could join a guild, post on forums etc to get help if they can't manage it on their own.
As others have already said, the GF is for a bunch of different reasons, if you get kicked, which happens if the majority votes, get over it.
There is no obligation to carry bad or new players when using it.
We need an update for GF parameters, such as speed run, max cp, new player etc - and the penalty should be changed, but if you get kicked several times (3~) you should get a penalty, since then you are obvisouly cueing for something you shouldn't be.~ Gryphon Heart ~
~ Immortal Redeemer ~
~ Grand Master Crafter ~
~ Master Angler ~
~ Former Emperor ~3 -
Stopnaggin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stopnaggin wrote: »Stopnaggin wrote: »For real people, taking time out of your day to teach someone a few things isn't going to kill any of you. Sometimes you don't find great players but sometimes you can make great players.
Most good players have spent time to learn the game, why can't other new players do the same?
My game time is limited, and I am going to spend that doing things I want to do, things that brings me enjoyment. Helping lazy players is not fun imo.
Invest the time and learn yourself, don't complain when other people don't want to carry your lazy behind.
If I got paid to learn lazy, entitled people play a game, that would be another story.
So you just came out and ran vet dungeons with no knowledge of any of the mechanics. I guess there were no hi cp players in your groups back then. Being lazy is another story, some people actually want to learn. If they don't want to learn then I'm fine with kicking them but if you offer advise and they heed that advise they are willing to learn. But you know good luck with learning anything if you can't find a group because you keep getting kicked because of lower cp.
Yes most good players took time to learn the game but according to your statement they must have been lazy at some point, because someone had to have carried them right?
It's not my job, or responsibility, to teach people.
If people are new, or don't know dungeon mechanics etc - use internet! It's quite a handy tool nowadays and not at all the temporary sensation or flavor of the month some thought it would be.
Or they could join a guild, post on forums etc to get help if they can't manage it on their own.
As others have already said, the GF is for a bunch of different reasons, if you get kicked, which happens if the majority votes, get over it.
There is no obligation to carry bad or new players when using it.
We need an update for GF parameters, such as speed run, max cp, new player etc - and the penalty should be changed, but if you get kicked several times (3~) you should get a penalty, since then you are obvisouly cueing for something you shouldn't be.
No one said it was you job, this thread wasn't even started for that elitist argument. As I have stated before everyone has had help at some point in this game. You didn't just watch videos and all of sudden you can solo very vet dungeon.
Shouldn't be cueing for something, last I checked everyone bought the content if they are cueing for. They absolutey have the right to use something they paid for without penalty.
You can do as you like the original argument of the gf kick is being abused still stand. Now if they had no penalty for the person who did nothing wrong, all is well.5 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If it weren't for the 15 minute penalty, most people would be happy to just leave groups that are below their standards.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)3 -
IrishGirlGamer✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't vote to kick people from groups. I won't do it. So sometimes I end up either (1) getting kicked myself or (2) leaving the group voluntarily. And while @Hortator Indoril Nerevar 's attitude can be hard to take, he (or she) is right on this basic issue:
No group should be forced to play with people they don't want to play with. No group. If everyone votes you off the island, then sweet pea, it's time to go.
And it sucks. I get that. No one likes to be rejected. But is it fair? Honestly, who cares? Who ever said fairness was a fundamental requirement in an online game? I mean, really?
The bigger issue to me (speaking just for myself) is this: why would anyone want to spend time with these people anyway (well, other than people just like them)? I mean, this is game. It's supposed to be fun, right? That is part of why you're here. @ZOS_GinaBruno or @ZOS_JessicaFolsom can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's part of the design purpose, too.
The game is supposed to be fun. If you're not having fun, change something.
You don't have to group with these people. Really. If you waiting for permission to tell these people to go screw themselves, consider it given. Boycott the group finder. Just stop using it. You don't have to use it. Let them find their own groups.
The group finder is the worst way for me to find a group. What's better?
1. Join a guild of people you like to spend time with. If you can't find one, make one. Look at this thread. There are people in the game who agree with you. Start a guild. I would join and I'd bring a friend.
2. Volunteer to help people out in zone chat. Pitch in group fights. Volunteer to help with dungeon runs (be clear what your specs are so people aren't surprised). Just help people.
3. Seek out groups in zone chat and be social. Ask questions. Be polite. Let people run with you who are just getting started in the game. Who knows, you might meet someone you like.
This is a game and if you're spending time in it, you should be having fun. Forcing people to play with you who don't want you around is not fun for them or you. It's like crashing a party that you're not invited to and no one wants you to be at.
My first veteran dungeon run really sucked (I wrote about it in another thread so I won't repeat it here). I didn't quit the group and I stayed in until the end. I should have quit. And now, after that experience, I would quit. If I'm in a group now and I see someone wanting to vote another player out of the group, I will decline to vote and then respectfully quit. Does it annoy people? I'm sure it does. Do I care? Not really.
If everyone truly thinks like they do, then they should have no problems filling their group. I'll go do something I enjoy.
Edited by IrishGirlGamer on November 15, 2016 5:54PMValar Morghulis.
Someday I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull. Arya Stark
You're going to die tomorrow, Lord Bolton. Sleep well. Sansa Stark
If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. Desmond Tutu6 -
CombatPrayer✭✭✭✭I run with lowbies ALL the time. There are few reasons to vote to kick. Disconnects that do not return in a few mintues is the one thing that seems always acceptable. But most other things are just people being jerks.
The real problem isn't the kick but the 15 min timer in my opinion. Because if a person gets kicked because people are tools, then they now are doubly penalized because now they have to wait.
So many times people have brought up the epic failure of the timer. And it is an epic failure because most people who do something to trigger the penalty don't care about it at all. They'll just do something else.
I wonder when zos will get their heads out of the sand on this one and finally realize the timer is more of a punishment to the people who had nothing to do with triggering it than a penalty to the people they intended it for. Never seems to be the case. Such is the way with zos.
Disbands are being abused like crazy right now too. This has to stop. The only way to adjust for it is to get rid of the dopey timers. Enough already, Zos. Get with the program and get rid of these timers.Edited by CombatPrayer on November 15, 2016 6:06PM2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IrishGirlGamer wrote: »I don't vote to kick people from groups. I won't do it. So sometimes I end up either (1) getting kicked myself or (2) leaving the group voluntarily. And while @Hortator Indoril Nerevar 's attitude can be hard to take, he (or she) is right on this basic issue:
No group should be forced to play with people they don't want to play with. No group. If everyone votes you off the island, then sweet pea, it's time to go.
Except, the problem that follows now, and Nerevar's posts completely, repeatedly, and deliberately gloss over it is that, right now, a couple guys who want to grind, or do something very specific, whatever that is, can use the group finder, and then start summarily punishing other players with a 15 minute timeout, because they can't be bothered to find a fourth member in their guilds or in zone.
Get kicked? Sure. But do not give other players the ability to lock someone out of the groupfinder for 15 minutes because they're not a cookie cutter.
You don't want to play with them? That's cool. You don't have to. But, you absolutely should not have the capacity to punish another player directly.3 -
Paneross✭✭✭✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »Don't use the group finder if you are going to kick people before giving them a chance.
I will continue to do so and kick anyone under 400cp.2 -
wylievc✭✭✭https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/303364/if-you-get-a-15-min-cooldown-on-group-finder-its-only-fair-to-be-immune-to-being-kicked-for-15-min#latest
Here is another discussion we had on the matter. Specifically, how the cooldown penalty for the group finder needs to be fixed for those who are instantly kicked without good reason, i.e. everyone under level 50 or low CP players.If you think about what the 15 min cooldown penalty was there for in the first place I feel like a ready prompt at queue completion would render the cooldown redundant. That way afker's who would be the recipients of the intended penalty would be removed from the queue when they don't click enter now and the remaining queued players would be placed back in the front. Then you wouldn't need cooldown immunity that technically could be abused.
...
while there exists an AFK prevention system i.e. ready prompt at queue completion, there is no need for a cooldown penalty at all.
0 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lava_Croft wrote: »Don't use the group finder if you are going to kick people before giving them a chance.
I will continue to do so and kick anyone under 400cp.
Then its time to remove CP from the UI.
@ZOS_RichLambertAnything that can be exploited will be exploited8 -
Paneross✭✭✭✭✭Rune_Relic wrote: »Lava_Croft wrote: »Don't use the group finder if you are going to kick people before giving them a chance.
I will continue to do so and kick anyone under 400cp.
Then its time to remove CP from the UI.
@ZOS_RichLambert
That won't happen.0 -
IrishGirlGamer✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »IrishGirlGamer wrote: »I don't vote to kick people from groups. I won't do it. So sometimes I end up either (1) getting kicked myself or (2) leaving the group voluntarily. And while @Hortator Indoril Nerevar 's attitude can be hard to take, he (or she) is right on this basic issue:
No group should be forced to play with people they don't want to play with. No group. If everyone votes you off the island, then sweet pea, it's time to go.
Except, the problem that follows now, and Nerevar's posts completely, repeatedly, and deliberately gloss over it is that, right now, a couple guys who want to grind, or do something very specific, whatever that is, can use the group finder, and then start summarily punishing other players with a 15 minute timeout, because they can't be bothered to find a fourth member in their guilds or in zone.
Get kicked? Sure. But do not give other players the ability to lock someone out of the groupfinder for 15 minutes because they're not a cookie cutter.
You don't want to play with them? That's cool. You don't have to. But, you absolutely should not have the capacity to punish another player directly.
I agree, both with your sentiment and your criticism of the group finder tool. Is the tool being used in the manner you described? Almost certainly. All @ZOS_GinaBruno and @ZOS_JessicaFolsom have to do is look at this post right here ...Lava_Croft wrote: »Don't use the group finder if you are going to kick people before giving them a chance.
I will continue to do so and kick anyone under 400cp.
... to see exactly how their tool is being used. At this point, it becomes Zenimax's choice what kind of game they want and what kind of gameplay they want to encourage. They can change the game if they want. It's their game. They have to power to do so.
But I'll reiterate: this does NOT leave the player without a choice. You can choose how you play the game and who you associate with.
Valar Morghulis.
Someday I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull. Arya Stark
You're going to die tomorrow, Lord Bolton. Sleep well. Sansa Stark
If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. Desmond Tutu6 -
ThePonzzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just create a three strike rule. After you kick 3 people from your group, the group is disbanded and you're blocked from the group finder for some time. Why allow egotistical elitist the ability to use a tool created for random PUGs? Join a guild if that's your attitude.4 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IrishGirlGamer wrote: »But I'll reiterate: this does NOT leave the player without a choice. You can choose how you play the game and who you associate with.
You'll notice, I didn't say the vote to kick option should be removed from the game.
The only direct problem with vote to kick is that it applies the 15 minute lockout timer, designed to prevent players from joining a group, and then abandoning it, themselves, when they decided the group composition was garbage, or because they were (originally) picking the random dungeon option, and then rolling the dice again when they didn't like the one RNGesus gave them.
Indirectly, there's still the issue that the grouping tool can take way too long for some players. So they're sitting in a queue for 25 minutes, only to get kicked, and stuck in timeout for another 15. But, of the two, the timeout can be fixed easily, and may help deal with the former, with more players rotating into the queue.2 -
FoolishHuman✭✭✭✭✭A solution would be to limit how many people the group finder can put in a single group. I.e. if you kick too many people out you will not get a replacement anymore. Then kicking would be a last resort instead of a sorting tool.3 -
Paneross✭✭✭✭✭We have the RIGHT to choose who we want to play with and who we don't want to play with. That simple. We shouldn't be FORCED to play with whoever is just there.5
-
Paneross✭✭✭✭✭
You act like it's one person deciding who gets kicked and who doesn't. It's not, its the majority vote.Edited by Paneross on November 15, 2016 7:06PM3 -
Hortator Indoril Nerevar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just create a three strike rule. After you kick 3 people from your group, the group is disbanded and you're blocked from the group finder for some time. Why allow egotistical elitist the ability to use a tool created for random PUGs? Join a guild if that's your attitude.We have the RIGHT to choose who we want to play with and who we don't want to play with. That simple. We shouldn't be FORCED to play with whoever is just there.
Also I dont use group finder, its full of gunk. I just like the idea of others being able to play how they want and to vote for it. If this thread was about 100000000CP players being kicked from groups of 3x 50CP players because they wanted to move fast in the dungeon and not go slower I would also be on the side of the majority who chose to kick someone because they are the majority in that situation.
[Edit to remove insulting content]Edited by [Deleted User] on November 15, 2016 7:44PM0 -
WhitePawPrints✭✭✭✭✭
✭We have the RIGHT to choose who we want to play with and who we don't want to play with. That simple. We shouldn't be FORCED to play with whoever is just there.
You are absolutely right. It is your right to choose who you want to play with. You CHOSE to use the Group Finder, which randomly selects your teammates. That was your choice.
No one is saying that you are forced to play with people you don't want to play with, so you can CHOOSE to leave that group, and find a group you would like to play with.
The primary concern is the fifteen minute lockout, and that there needs to be adjustments to it. If adjustments were made, then the complaints about kicking will diminish.5 -
Hortator Indoril Nerevar✭✭✭✭✭
✭WhitePawPrints wrote: »We have the RIGHT to choose who we want to play with and who we don't want to play with. That simple. We shouldn't be FORCED to play with whoever is just there.
You are absolutely right. It is your right to choose who you want to play with. You CHOSE to use the Group Finder, which randomly selects your teammates. That was your choice.
No one is saying that you are forced to play with people you don't want to play with, so you can CHOOSE to leave that group, and find a group you would like to play with.
The primary concern is the fifteen minute lockout, and that there needs to be adjustments to it. If adjustments were made, then the complaints about kicking will diminish.
They also choose as a majority to vote kick x person.
The primary concern is the fifteen minute lockout is the problem yet time and time again the majority are attacked as bad people and elitist when its not their fault the game is implemented badly.3 -
WhitePawPrints✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »WhitePawPrints wrote: »We have the RIGHT to choose who we want to play with and who we don't want to play with. That simple. We shouldn't be FORCED to play with whoever is just there.
You are absolutely right. It is your right to choose who you want to play with. You CHOSE to use the Group Finder, which randomly selects your teammates. That was your choice.
No one is saying that you are forced to play with people you don't want to play with, so you can CHOOSE to leave that group, and find a group you would like to play with.
The primary concern is the fifteen minute lockout, and that there needs to be adjustments to it. If adjustments were made, then the complaints about kicking will diminish.
They also choose as a majority to vote kick x person.
The primary concern is the fifteen minute lockout is the problem yet time and time again the majority are attacked as bad people and elitist when its not their fault the game is implemented badly.
And you have offered so many suggestions to help improve the badly implemented game feature...0 -
Hortator Indoril Nerevar✭✭✭✭✭
✭WhitePawPrints wrote: »Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »WhitePawPrints wrote: »We have the RIGHT to choose who we want to play with and who we don't want to play with. That simple. We shouldn't be FORCED to play with whoever is just there.
You are absolutely right. It is your right to choose who you want to play with. You CHOSE to use the Group Finder, which randomly selects your teammates. That was your choice.
No one is saying that you are forced to play with people you don't want to play with, so you can CHOOSE to leave that group, and find a group you would like to play with.
The primary concern is the fifteen minute lockout, and that there needs to be adjustments to it. If adjustments were made, then the complaints about kicking will diminish.
They also choose as a majority to vote kick x person.
The primary concern is the fifteen minute lockout is the problem yet time and time again the majority are attacked as bad people and elitist when its not their fault the game is implemented badly.
And you have offered so many suggestions to help improve the badly implemented game feature...
I dont work for zos and I have actually said- Have a feature that allows you to pick a minimum cp you can group with
- remove the 15 minute lockout
in other replies multipletimes.
Anything else?..1 -
Paneross✭✭✭✭✭WhitePawPrints wrote: »We have the RIGHT to choose who we want to play with and who we don't want to play with. That simple. We shouldn't be FORCED to play with whoever is just there.
No one is saying that you are forced to play with people you don't want to play with, so you can CHOOSE to leave that group, and find a group you would like to play with.
.
The entire group can also CHOOSE to kick the 4th person. ZOS gave us the power and the right to do so by popular vote.1 -
Hortator Indoril Nerevar✭✭✭✭✭
✭WhitePawPrints wrote: »We have the RIGHT to choose who we want to play with and who we don't want to play with. That simple. We shouldn't be FORCED to play with whoever is just there.
No one is saying that you are forced to play with people you don't want to play with, so you can CHOOSE to leave that group, and find a group you would like to play with.
.
The entire group can also CHOOSE to kick the 4th person. ZOS gave us the power and the right to do so by popular vote.
Exactly.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've been kicked maybe 5 times in 9 months. I even leveled a character mostly via random GF and I think I may have been kicked once, that was on a true low level character.
Makes me wonder why some experience thus frequently or what they consider frequently.1 -
Stopnaggin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »WhitePawPrints wrote: »We have the RIGHT to choose who we want to play with and who we don't want to play with. That simple. We shouldn't be FORCED to play with whoever is just there.
No one is saying that you are forced to play with people you don't want to play with, so you can CHOOSE to leave that group, and find a group you would like to play with.
.
The entire group can also CHOOSE to kick the 4th person. ZOS gave us the power and the right to do so by popular vote.
Exactly.
And that's all fine and friggin dandy, but should the person the majority kicked be punished? Where is the others players CHOICE? Sit for 15 minutes and possibly get kicked again. This makes no sense.
5 -
DPShiro✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stopnaggin wrote: »Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »WhitePawPrints wrote: »We have the RIGHT to choose who we want to play with and who we don't want to play with. That simple. We shouldn't be FORCED to play with whoever is just there.
No one is saying that you are forced to play with people you don't want to play with, so you can CHOOSE to leave that group, and find a group you would like to play with.
.
The entire group can also CHOOSE to kick the 4th person. ZOS gave us the power and the right to do so by popular vote.
Exactly.
And that's all fine and friggin dandy, but should the person the majority kicked be punished? Where is the others players CHOICE? Sit for 15 minutes and possibly get kicked again. This makes no sense.
If the player gets kicked over and over again, obvisouly they are not what people are looking for when using group finder, so maybe they should gear up/level up/git gud etc.
Majority votes, if everyone feels the same way, the person kicked is not a victim.~ Gryphon Heart ~
~ Immortal Redeemer ~
~ Grand Master Crafter ~
~ Master Angler ~
~ Former Emperor ~2 -
WhitePawPrints✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stopnaggin wrote: »Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »WhitePawPrints wrote: »We have the RIGHT to choose who we want to play with and who we don't want to play with. That simple. We shouldn't be FORCED to play with whoever is just there.
No one is saying that you are forced to play with people you don't want to play with, so you can CHOOSE to leave that group, and find a group you would like to play with.
.
The entire group can also CHOOSE to kick the 4th person. ZOS gave us the power and the right to do so by popular vote.
Exactly.
And that's all fine and friggin dandy, but should the person the majority kicked be punished? Where is the others players CHOICE? Sit for 15 minutes and possibly get kicked again. This makes no sense.
If the player gets kicked over and over again, obvisouly they are not what people are looking for when using group finder, so maybe they should gear up/level up/git gud etc.
Majority votes, if everyone feels the same way, the person kicked is not a victim.
Huh, who knew that the victims of being lynched back in the 60's were not victims.
If a person is repeatedly kicked for proving to be insufficient in their role throughout dungeons, then agreed. The problem is kicking on the prejudice of that a person's # next to their name determines their skill. To avoid this, changes have been suggested to implement a CP check, or to set limitations to the kicking system.Edited by WhitePawPrints on November 15, 2016 7:54PM2 -
Stopnaggin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stopnaggin wrote: »Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »WhitePawPrints wrote: »We have the RIGHT to choose who we want to play with and who we don't want to play with. That simple. We shouldn't be FORCED to play with whoever is just there.
No one is saying that you are forced to play with people you don't want to play with, so you can CHOOSE to leave that group, and find a group you would like to play with.
.
The entire group can also CHOOSE to kick the 4th person. ZOS gave us the power and the right to do so by popular vote.
Exactly.
And that's all fine and friggin dandy, but should the person the majority kicked be punished? Where is the others players CHOICE? Sit for 15 minutes and possibly get kicked again. This makes no sense.
If the player gets kicked over and over again, obvisouly they are not what people are looking for when using group finder, so maybe they should gear up/level up/git gud etc.
Majority votes, if everyone feels the same way, the person kicked is not a victim.
Majority vote means they are not victims? I don't even have time to explain why I don't have to to explain.2
This discussion has been closed.