Please leave the new sets for PVE alone!

NewBlacksmurf · November 2016

AdicusDio wrote: »

I hear people in PvP are complaining about sets popping too much. Fine whatever.

Being strictly a PvE player, I slowly switched all my old Golden Hundings and Golden Dreugh King out for newer sets as they seem more fun to run with. Took a couple weeks to get everything dialed-in with desirable traits and fully upgraded. So far, they are great fun doing pledges, grinding, etc. Now I hear they are getting nerfed? Becuase.....PvP is whining about them? Seriously? Do you actually WANT people to keep playing? Or is this some under-handed subterfuge to drive people away in disgust to never return?

Agreed.
ZOS just needs to completely seperate PvP before they ruin the game. I'm not saying ppl but ZOS

Mayrael · November 2016

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Certain proc sets like vipers are broken and not working as intended for PvP or PVE . Getting fixed is not a nerf .

actually if you read the tool tip then it is doing exactly what is intended...it's just that they could make some changes to it so it does not constantly proc and also give it a cool down (e.g. 10% chance and 5 second cool down or something like that)

i'm not against making changes to sets for balance, but just make sure you know what the set is supposed to do before you say it is "not working as intended for PvP or PvE"

You first.

AzuraKin · November 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Certain proc sets like vipers are broken and not working as intended for PvP or PVE . Getting fixed is not a nerf .

actually if you read the tool tip then it is doing exactly what is intended...it's just that they could make some changes to it so it does not constantly proc and also give it a cool down (e.g. 10% chance and 5 second cool down or something like that)

i'm not against making changes to sets for balance, but just make sure you know what the set is supposed to do before you say it is "not working as intended for PvP or PvE"

rofl tool tip says when doing melee damage, yet it procs of guess what? bow attacks which are guess what? not melee attacks.

Roflmao

I dont know of anyone saying "dont fix bugged sets" so your strawman-fu is strong.

I do know a lot of people seem to be calling for nerfs to certain sets (often erroneously called procs whether they involve random chance or not) if the set lists its damage boosts separately.

viper is a proc chance, proc isnt about something just havent a random chance to do something, its about something being caused by an event. i.e. vicious death is a proc set because if you get a killing blow in pvp you do immense damage in a 4m radius around target. viper is a proc set that proc's off melee damage (oh wait i forgot its broken and procs off any physical damage) widowmaker is a proc set because it procs whenevery you apply a poisen to opponents. not all proc sets is 10% or 50% chance, it can be 100% chance. in essence proc set is a set that does damage above and beyond your characters skills.

Alucardo · November 2016

AdicusDio wrote: »

Don't like, don't wear them.

Oh man, if only. PVP is full of people who will do anything to gain the advantage, even blatantly cheat. It's sad, but true. The only way people will stop wearing them is if the sets are less effective, because at the moment they are overperforming.
Picture trying to fight a guy in full heavy armor with 2 proc sets while you have none. It's like fighting a small army.
Proc sets have essentially given heavy armor builds the damage to burst anyone down in a few hits. There's something very wrong there.
Hopefully they will tie any changes to battle spirit (PVP only), because I understand nobody could complete PVE content before proc sets were introduced.

W0lf_z13 · November 2016

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Regarding unlimited resources, try playing non-cp campaign, procs sets are worse there (cause no HP from CP) but resource management / damage output / survivability need to be traded off with each other. High survivability = no damage (unless stacking proc sets, which is an issue). 1v6 is not an issue as long as that 1 cannot do damage, so no, that does not bother me in the slightest.

the sad part of this is i actually saw a few people wearing vipers in BwB last night ... one of which was on a lvl 30 toon ... it was at least 2 or 3 people in a group of 5

W0lf_z13 · November 2016

BalticBlues wrote: »

The OP is spot on. PvE players invested hundreds of hours and hundred thousands of gold into their favorite sets.
Nerfing the sets into the ground for PvP - like so many things have been nerfed into the ground - is hardly a fair solution.

ZOS could remove proc sets from PvP, I would be fine with that. But I am tired of notorious PvP whiners crippling PvE more and more. Moreover: PvP once was fun. Currently PvP is only a snare game. Not fun at all. The real problem of PvP is endless snaring and repetitive gameplay. Fix that first ZOS, before touching what is working, at least in PvE. PvE is what the majority of people are playing.

and PvPer's haven't ??? i spend roughtly half my time in PvP and the other half in PvE farming for gear ... i know ALOT of people who basically ONLY play PvP and I have been playing for over a year

kevlarto_ESO · November 2016

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Certain proc sets like vipers are broken and not working as intended for PvP or PVE . Getting fixed is not a nerf .

This ^^^ and the fact there are so many of them broken they trivialize pve encounters the game is easy enough for the most part, when new things like this come out unless your just one of those meta maxers that has to have the new shiny, I find it good to wait and see how things work before I start to rely on a broken game mechanic that I know is going to get fixed at some point and have to learn to play again with out that crutch. I have not used one proc set yet doubt I will.

AzuraKin · November 2016

how about changing procs from when damage is done to chance to proc when using a specific skill, i.e. viper procs when you use twin slashes. with the 4s cooldown still in place. red mountain can proc when using cleave. ect.

STEVIL · November 2016

AzuraKin wrote: »

how about changing procs from when damage is done to chance to proc when using a specific skill, i.e. viper procs when you use twin slashes. with the 4s cooldown still in place. red mountain can proc when using cleave. ect.

If those skills are normally used and effective, then it makes litylevdifferent other than to limit weapon mixes and maybe prevent s few combos.

But it could be jiggered to effectively prevent stacking procs that fires from same event.

FENGRUSH · November 2016

BalticBlues wrote: »

The OP is spot on. PvE players invested hundreds of hours and hundred thousands of gold into their favorite sets.
Nerfing the sets into the ground for PvP - like so many things have been nerfed into the ground - is hardly a fair solution.

ZOS could remove proc sets from PvP, I would be fine with that. But I am tired of notorious PvP whiners crippling PvE more and more. Moreover: PvP once was fun. Currently PvP is only a snare game. Not fun at all. The real problem of PvP is endless snaring and repetitive gameplay. Fix that first ZOS, before touching what is working, at least in PvE. PvE is what the majority of people are playing.

Why would you take the time to bold a statement that serves no purpose. They vest hundreds of gold and hours into equipment? What, did the PvP players get it for free?

Enslaved · November 2016

FENGRUSH wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

The OP is spot on. PvE players invested hundreds of hours and hundred thousands of gold into their favorite sets.
Nerfing the sets into the ground for PvP - like so many things have been nerfed into the ground - is hardly a fair solution.

ZOS could remove proc sets from PvP, I would be fine with that. But I am tired of notorious PvP whiners crippling PvE more and more. Moreover: PvP once was fun. Currently PvP is only a snare game. Not fun at all. The real problem of PvP is endless snaring and repetitive gameplay. Fix that first ZOS, before touching what is working, at least in PvE. PvE is what the majority of people are playing.

Why would you take the time to bold a statement that serves no purpose. They vest hundreds of gold and hours into equipment? What, did the PvP players get it for free?

PvPers only had to invest hundreds of hours in IC/Cyrodiil, you can't be serious to compare that with killing guars in Stonefalls.

Sallington · November 2016

Change impen to also reduce damage from set procs by 50%.

Fin.

Enslaved · November 2016

Sallington wrote: »

Change impen to also reduce damage from set procs by 50%.

Fin.

5% per inpen piece would be great.

Knootewoot · November 2016

FENGRUSH wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

The OP is spot on. PvE players invested hundreds of hours and hundred thousands of gold into their favorite sets.
Nerfing the sets into the ground for PvP - like so many things have been nerfed into the ground - is hardly a fair solution.

ZOS could remove proc sets from PvP, I would be fine with that. But I am tired of notorious PvP whiners crippling PvE more and more. Moreover: PvP once was fun. Currently PvP is only a snare game. Not fun at all. The real problem of PvP is endless snaring and repetitive gameplay. Fix that first ZOS, before touching what is working, at least in PvE. PvE is what the majority of people are playing.

Why would you take the time to bold a statement that serves no purpose. They vest hundreds of gold and hours into equipment? What, did the PvP players get it for free?

Agree. As far as I know PvP'ers haven't gotten squat for years. And most of them have more hours and time in the game then golden heavily geared PvE peasants who despise PvP. Yes, PvP'ers can also get the sets but not by doing what they love most.

Procs sets are a mistake. Nerfing them now might hurt some PvE'ers. Instead I blame Zos for not thinking of what the impact is for both PvE and PvP before introducing such a ridiculous (armor that fights for you) idea like proc sets.

I have them, but I don't wear them. And that is because im a magicka but the best sets are only stamina,

Yes, I say nerf them for both PvE and PvP. I do play PvE and I never needed them to complete any content. DPS is not the only thing you need to complete content.

AjiBuster499 · November 2016

I read the first post, skipped the rest because I have a feeling this is part of the proc set debate and a lot of hate is in the replies.
My two cents are:
There's two types of people in ESO: The PvE and the PvP (For all general purposes RP group is counted as PvE)
In PvE the proc sets are your best friend because they help you out ALOT in dungeons/trials.
In PvP your relationship with proc sets will depend on who has them: If the enemy has them they're your worst enemy. If you or an ally has them they're your best friend.

I talked with someone else about Proc Sets recently, and we came up with a couple of solutions:

1. Nerf the proc set stats significantly so that they won't be as harmful (only in Cyrodiil or other PvP areas; dueling proc sets can be worked on here, but currently doesn't count). People may still complain because 500 enemies will have 5 proc sets each, but at least it isn't like 1 proc set in PvP is doing 10000000000000 damage, multiplied by 5 for 1 person multiplied by 500 for the Mega-Zergs.

2. Give the proc sets a different ability (only in Cyrodiil or other PvP areas; dueling proc sets can be worked on here, but currently doesn't count). Note: This doesn't necessarily mean that proc sets won't do damage in PvP, the other ability could be damaging but maybe in a different way.

Both ideas are very rough, but could really help out the situation. My personal opinion is that the first idea is better, but my buddy said that then all the players have to do is increase their stats to get more dps output.

Biro123 · November 2016

BalticBlues wrote: »

The OP is spot on. PvE players invested hundreds of hours and hundred thousands of gold into their favorite sets.
Nerfing the sets into the ground for PvP - like so many things have been nerfed into the ground - is hardly a fair solution.

ZOS could remove proc sets from PvP, I would be fine with that. But I am tired of notorious PvP whiners crippling PvE more and more. Moreover: PvP once was fun. Currently PvP is only a snare game. Not fun at all. The real problem of PvP is endless snaring and repetitive gameplay. Fix that first ZOS, before touching what is working, at least in PvE. PvE is what the majority of people are playing.

What?? I don't even.. What?

You are complaining because PVE players had to, like PVE, for stuff.. you mean they actually had to do the kind of content they like doing to get stuff they like getting? Good job you didn't have to do hundreds of hours of successful Pvping to get those sets..

Now try looking at it from the other side.. PVPers who HAVE invested the hours into getting these sets. Hours in doing content that they DO NOT LIKE doing. are calling for them to be balanced.

Fvh09NL · November 2016

I play both PvE and PvP, and I truly believe proc sets (maybe not all) should be nerfed, also for PvE actually.

A proc set should never have an incredibly high proc chance (100% for viper!), max 10%. Because of the high damage and/or proc chance everyone gets viper, Velidreth, red Mountain, etc., that says enough about other sets, they just can't compete. In my opinion a proc set should be balanced in a way that a person has to choose between raw stats (no proc sets) or a small (max 10%) chance to do extra damage (burst or DoT) with a proc set. At the moment it is unbalanced and the way to go is proc sets.

I would actually like that al proc sets be removed except for monster sets, as they should be unique and do a lot of damage. But I can understand that a lot of people won't like that.

Finally, I think it is really immature and egocentric to say you don't care about pvp because you solely play pve. People leave pvp and therefore also the game because of the issues regarding proc sets and that's a shame in my opinion.

Destruent · November 2016

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Certain proc sets like vipers are broken and not working as intended for PvP or PVE . Getting fixed is not a nerf .

This ^^^ and the fact there are so many of them broken they trivialize pve encounters the game is easy enough for the most part, when new things like this come out unless your just one of those meta maxers that has to have the new shiny, I find it good to wait and see how things work before I start to rely on a broken game mechanic that I know is going to get fixed at some point and have to learn to play again with out that crutch. I have not used one proc set yet doubt I will.

If those pve-guys with lots of procset would actually wear usefull gear and l2p, those bosses would melt even faster. Proccsets are only usefull in vMSA and pvp (the only places where burst matters).

on topic: global cooldown for offensive proccsets, pls

STEVIL · November 2016

Fvh09NL wrote: »

I play both PvE and PvP, and I truly believe proc sets (maybe not all) should be nerfed, also for PvE actually.

A proc set should never have an incredibly high proc chance (100% for viper!), max 10%. Because of the high damage and/or proc chance everyone gets viper, Velidreth, red Mountain, etc., that says enough about other sets, they just can't compete. In my opinion a proc set should be balanced in a way that a person has to choose between raw stats (no proc sets) or a small (max 10%) chance to do extra damage (burst or DoT) with a proc set. At the moment it is unbalanced and the way to go is proc sets.

I would actually like that al proc sets be removed except for monster sets, as they should be unique and do a lot of damage. But I can understand that a lot of people won't like that.

Finally, I think it is really immature and egocentric to say you don't care about pvp because you solely play pve. People leave pvp and therefore also the game because of the issues regarding proc sets and that's a shame in my opinion.

about the bold... before proc sets abd even now somewhat the ssme could be said about nmg, hundgs, tbs and julianos or if you wanted tanky black rose.

Their always are and always will be a few best-fors, so simply pointing out the latest best-for doesnt mean much. Within a week of "recap set" nerfs (recap set are sets where the damage gains are shown separatrly like vipers or velidreth as ipposed to sets which proc but hide the gains like nmg) there will be new best-fors (quite possibly the ssme best-fors prior to the "recap set" boom which may be the goal). Will you be here saying they need nerfs cuz the others cant compete?

NMG has had a good to high proc chance (crit) forever, has been top drawer and applies to any physical attack by anyone at any range yielding without cooldown secret damage boosts that can make viper look timid, esp in end game group play.

If anything, how about battle spirit "one set only counts its final bonus per 10s)?

RazorCaltrops · November 2016

Fvh09NL wrote: »

I would actually like that al proc sets be removed except for monster sets, as they should be unique and do a lot of damage. But I can understand that a lot of people won't like that.

That depends.

Spell Power Cure, Burning Spellweave, Transmutation etc. are technically proc sets too, you have to play accordingly to get the benefit of their 5th bonuses.

The real problem are the sets that instagib people in pvp when they proc, particularly viper. And now we have all sets available for all pieces which made things worse pvp-wise because it allows people to combo these with heavy armor.

And the biggest problem: in reality the concern is stacking one shot proc sets. But ZOS won't find a reasonable solution or it will be too costly for them and they will nerf everything (including PVE-only ones) into the ground, which is undesirable for people who want cheese-free PVP next patch but also stay PVE unaffected (which is really easy to do at least in theory)

STEVIL · November 2016

And the biggest problem: in reality...Damage particularly burst damage has hit such a high mark on buolds accessable to anyone, not just arena/trial runners, that the old med/light meta sets are killable even when full bore hard core elite run them.

Or did i miss thread upon thread about elite ultra geared killing mee players showing elite ultra gear needs nerfing?

Of course, this comes on the heels of the heavies too strong to kills...

Which came on heels of heavy useless everyone med/')light...

The way i used to kill = good
The way i get killed now = bad
Lather, rinse, repeat.

Astanphaeus · November 2016

Typical PvEers whining that they might actually need skill to do their content if proc sets get balanced.

Doctordarkspawn · November 2016

Hopefully with the class reballances they make some serious changes that will revolutionize how the game is played so we wont really bother so much about these proc sets.

However, PVE should not be/very rarely be nerfed for the sake of PVP, and this isn't one of those times.

"I'm geting killed! NERF IT INTO THE GROUND!" Same old song and dance, my friends.

Katahdin · November 2016

Lord knows no one could complete anything in PvE before proc sets.

Destruent · November 2016

Katahdin wrote: »

Lord knows no one could complete anything in PvE before proc sets.

yep, we usually wiped at the first thrashpack.

Fvh09NL · November 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

about the bold... before proc sets abd even now somewhat the ssme could be said about nmg, hundgs, tbs and julianos or if you wanted tanky black rose.

Their always are and always will be a few best-fors, so simply pointing out the latest best-for doesnt mean much. Within a week of "recap set" nerfs (recap set are sets where the damage gains are shown separatrly like vipers or velidreth as ipposed to sets which proc but hide the gains like nmg) there will be new best-fors (quite possibly the ssme best-fors prior to the "recap set" boom which may be the goal). Will you be here saying they need nerfs cuz the others cant compete?

NMG has had a good to high proc chance (crit) forever, has been top drawer and applies to any physical attack by anyone at any range yielding without cooldown secret damage boosts that can make viper look timid, esp in end game group play.

If anything, how about battle spirit "one set only counts its final bonus per 10s)?

You miss my point I think, of course there will always be "BiS" and that isn't the problem. But proc sets like Viper and Red Mountain are utter game changers in PvP because of the insane damage they do, and it's free damage as well! Yes NMG boosts your dps but even if you wear it you can't kill people with 1 or 2 hits of a light/heavy attack. In addition, with NMG you are still the one who has to get your rotation right to kill someone, with Viper your armor does it for you. So yes, I would like to nerf at least the proc chance to max 10%, because in my opinion getting a free 4-5k hit in PvP every four seconds is ridiculous. Being able to stack them is even worse, so I'm in favor of a global cooldown. These sets should have the drawback of losing raw stats, but at the moment there is no real disadvantage (not talking about monster sets, they are fine imo). For PvE, I wouldn't mind a nerf either, but I can understand that people won't like that so I would be happy with a global cooldown and damage nerf to be included in Battle Spirit.

RazorCaltrops wrote: »

That depends.

Spell Power Cure, Burning Spellweave, Transmutation etc. are technically proc sets too, you have to play accordingly to get the benefit of their 5th bonuses.

The real problem are the sets that instagib people in pvp when they proc, particularly viper. And now we have all sets available for all pieces which made things worse pvp-wise because it allows people to combo these with heavy armor.

And the biggest problem: in reality the concern is stacking one shot proc sets. But ZOS won't find a reasonable solution or it will be too costly for them and they will nerf everything (including PVE-only ones) into the ground, which is undesirable for people who want cheese-free PVP next patch but also stay PVE unaffected (which is really easy to do at least in theory)

Yes sorry, I was not clear on that, I agree with you it depends on what kind of proc set.

STEVIL · November 2016

@Fvh09NL
Imo killing someone with 1-2 attacks - does it really matter whether thry were a couple set procs or an ambush, incap, execute? Dead is dead.
Ganked by stygian set stealth takedown bow-bush worse that vipers?

Imo "free" and "set does it for you" are not critical because sets ave been doing it for you all along. Hundings procs constantly giving you crits and bonus dmg that boost every attack you make. If you get one dot plus weave and attack going it likely does more than viper over 4s period. Key is, hundings adds to all be it ranged or not. Viper requires you to melee.

Proc sets or rather recap sets are the current scapegoat for what is to some a problem.

Damage, specifically burst damage, is easier to drive up than it was before. This is from boosted enchants, poisons, drop set availability etc.

Spriggans may give you more than viper too.

How about battle spirit adding "reduce all damage from all sources by 50% more for 15s"?

That should make every fight last long enough to "give elite skill/gear a chance" or does it need to be longer?

Fvh09NL · November 2016

Yeah in my opinion it's definitely worse to get killed by a Viper proc than a, from my point of view, well played combo (as much as I hate getting ganked

). But if you don't think so I still respect your opinion

And what do you mean by the 50% damage reduction with battlespirit? Once you get hit or what?

Thelon · November 2016

Carebear Countdown

Four

Three

Two

AdicusDio wrote: »

The sets are doing what they are supposed to do. Don't like, don't wear them. Leave the whining crud OUT of PvE.

Potato

Awakatanka · November 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

@Fvh09NL
Imo killing someone with 1-2 attacks - does it really matter whether thry were a couple set procs or an ambush, incap, execute? Dead is dead.
Ganked by stygian set stealth takedown bow-bush worse that vipers?

Imo "free" and "set does it for you" are not critical because sets ave been doing it for you all along. Hundings procs constantly giving you crits and bonus dmg that boost every attack you make. If you get one dot plus weave and attack going it likely does more than viper over 4s period. Key is, hundings adds to all be it ranged or not. Viper requires you to melee.

Proc sets or rather recap sets are the current scapegoat for what is to some a problem.

Damage, specifically burst damage, is easier to drive up than it was before. This is from boosted enchants, poisons, drop set availability etc.

Spriggans may give you more than viper too.

How about battle spirit adding "reduce all damage from all sources by 50% more for 15s"?

That should make every fight last long enough to "give elite skill/gear a chance" or does it need to be longer?

Those sets make your skill hit harder and can be blocked, dodged etc. So it is still your skill against his skill. With those new sets you can be killed by the set without any of your skills