Vote kick feature is being seriously abused...

Doctordarkspawn · November 2016

Paneross wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Don't use the group finder if you are going to kick people before giving them a chance.

I will continue to do so and kick anyone under 400cp.

Then its time to remove CP from the UI.
@ZOS_RichLambert

That won't happen.

Thats what they said about DPS comparison addons.
So ZOS killed the functionality off because people were using is as an excuse to kick people.
Thats why you dont have a gear compare tool.
The game is supposed to be inclusive...not exclusive/divisive.
CP is now a divisive tool to exclude people from playing together.
So it has to go for the same reasons as dps inspect meters..for the same reason you cant 'examine gear'

Still won't happen. Lulz might as well take away CP.

Many people would -love- that. Honestly at this point I might.

AAbrigo · November 2016

Im CP220 on ps4 and know what you are talking about.. So frustrating they kick you before you try it out only because of CP and then have to wait 15 minutes again..

They should fix, so if you gets kicked within 2 minutes you shouldnt have to wait 15 minutes again..

Cherryblossom · November 2016

Paneross wrote: »

I'm guilty of this. I find 99% of randoms with lower CP don't know what their doing, don't output enough dps, don't heal, don't know mechanics. We shouldn't have to babysit lower CP levels. It's rude on their part to waste the time of others who are trying to do a quick dungeon.

@Paneross I sort of agree with you to a point. That being you can only find out if they are any good by doing some of the dungeon in the first place. Myself I would only vote kick if it's obvious they are not up to the job.

Doctordarkspawn · November 2016

Today, I queued random vet and got a healer who wasn't even CP 160. They were CP 40.

Do you know why I kicked them?

Because if your pre CP 160, you have no buisness queueing vet. Hell, preferibly pre CP 300 you shouldn't.

STEVIL · November 2016

is INVESTMENT the answer?

Everyone as they sign into grouper can invest an amount of gold.

A group can have a minimum gold set.

At the end of the dungeon the group splits the gold using a shares system.

Every death loses a character a share. So, if the character cannot cut the mustard they lose their investment.
If they can and carry dying man thru, they get more back at the end than they put in.
if you get vote kicked, instead of 15m, you forfeit your share but its gone for the other team too.
If you leave, lose investment and it goes to team.

this makes using stupid grouper tricks costly.
it makes vote-kicking less problematic for the vote-kicker.
it lets potentially kickable players decide how badly they want to get in.

Or maybe gold buyout of 15m?

LadyNalcarya · November 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

is INVESTMENT the answer?

Everyone as they sign into grouper can invest an amount of gold.

A group can have a minimum gold set.

At the end of the dungeon the group splits the gold using a shares system.

Every death loses a character a share. So, if the character cannot cut the mustard they lose their investment.
If they can and carry dying man thru, they get more back at the end than they put in.
if you get vote kicked, instead of 15m, you forfeit your share but its gone for the other team too.

this makes using stupid grouper tricks costly.
it makes vote-kicking less problematic for the vote-kicker.
it lets potentially kickable players decide how badly they want to get in.

Sooo if they get a stam dd as healer and some squishy mage without a taunt as a tank, they will be punished?
Why punish anyone? It makes more sense to just remove the 15 min timer and work on other improvements to make grouping faster and more convenient. For example, there's an issue when someone queues for pledge but the group he joins is already on the last boss (which means he will have to do this dungeon again to kill previous bosses). Also they could add some kind of tutorial mission that would explain new players the basics of their roles. And maybe lock vet dungeons for players who havent finished normal versions of those dungeons.

DMuehlhausen · November 2016

RebornV3x wrote: »

it would help if dungeons had recommended level so low cp plays knew what they were getting into but CP for the most part can play a big part I mean the gap between 330 to 561 isn't too bad but a the gap between a 100-159 and a 561 is pretty big gap but it takes 3 people to kick so it happens

It has nothing to do with this. When I was last playing my CP was 306 I think and I was getting kicked from Vet FG before I could even load. I had completed that dungeon on other characters at like VR2 way before they were even looking at removing Vet levels.

shepardTHEweak · November 2016

some people on group finder are elitist nubs..don't take two secs to pick up your mic and at least ask if its their first char, and if it is, maybe offer up some advice..cos with out new players then eso would die and i will hold you responsible

Preyfar · November 2016

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Finn

There's other reasons the "Vote to Kick" feature is being abused. When a player leaves a dungeon group (kicked, quits, times out) there's a 1-2 minute timer where the replacement person can't port in. Last night, I saw it first hand where people were getting kicked non-stop in a group I was in, and I was asking why we keep kicking people non-stop -- and they reported because people weren't porting into the dungeon. When I asked the people why they couldn't get into the dungeon they kept saying they were getting the error "instance is full".

This lead to 5 people getting kicked, and 5 people getting penalized by a 15 minute timer when all they did was try to use group finder to join a group. This seems like a penalty that could potentially hit a lot of players for something that's not their fault what-so-ever.

There needs to be a way to either remove kicked players faster from dungeons or find a way to notify the group of 4/4 slots are all used.

Crom_CCCXVI · November 2016

This happens in all games....
people see a CP of 150 and think that, the 5-10% of less points in some areas means something.
It's the excuse in PvP and the stupidity of PVE.

I would say try to find a guild. Most PVE players who think they can judge the skill of a player by their champ points are un-intelligent anyway.

DaveMoeDee · November 2016

SnubbS wrote: »

Sounds like you need a safe space.

If you're not competent enough to complete the content without being carried through it -- you shouldn't get the completion. I've never actually done the vote to kick option though, a bit too nerdy for me. Same goes for reporting others -- just a bit too nerdy for me.

What are you talking about? Who said he needs to be carried through? He didn't even get a chance to join the group.

Shouldn't you be saying this to the people who kicked him? Aren't they the ones who lack competence as they must be just grinding CP and now need someone with max CP to carry them? Thus the kicking?

You even have another post defending your comments where you seem unable to understand the OP beyond your desire to attack. Get over yourself.

ZOS_DaryaK · November 2016

We've removed a series of posts that were not contributing to the conversation in a meaningful way. Keep your posts civil, there is no need to bait others into an argument.

Galwylin · November 2016

As a new player (came aboard with One Tamiel), I have played some form of MMO since the original Everquest (yes, I know, old). I was excited to see the idea of tank, healer, dos gone for grouping. Sad to see, that's not the case. Now I'm not sure how that could ever be implemented without gimping group content. But it is the source of this strife. Because everyone wants great tanking and great healing and great dps. Even if they aren't either. I suggest do what I plan. Just skip that content if its not fun.

I know playing World of Warcraft that it gets old. The random dungeon with random people that you probably won't bother seeing again except in another random dungeon. Get a good guild. Make friends. Play whatever way you wish and find people that accept that in you. And if its not fun, its the system we have and probably can't be changed without losing that fun.

Believe me, its crazy annoying to finally get a group together and then everyone votes out the healer because he's not up to someone's standards then you waste more time looking for another. And sometimes, people kick just because its a button that you think you have to agree. We used to lose tanks so fast because of the kick system. I prefer to just leave instead of keeping up with the group. I've only initiated a kick two or three times due to someone seemingly getting me killed on purpose. But then its someone's friend and its just you wanting to kick.

But you have to keep the timer because there are people who just join and leave causing you to waste time looking for a replacement. There's no way to measure someone's intention so no computer can account for who's intention should be punished so they just punish everyone. Its much better than no punishment because then you can have one person trolling multiple groups.

I know the conversation is a bit scattered but I thought I would give my opinion on the original post.

moonbat · November 2016

On another thread a player recalled being kicked from a group because he had 528cp and that just wasn't good enough. 531 was needed...for a normal dungeon.

Tizerak · November 2016

Nidro wrote: »

@ Tizerak

Hey if you are playing on PS4 EU we can meeet up and go trough some dungeons :-)
I have 6 DDs 1 healer and 1 Tank, so im flexible and can dom multiple runs/farm runs

At the Moment im just a Little busy with moving to a new flat.
Also that vMA double loot takes some time, but when this is over ill farm tons of pledge keys :-)

so msg me if you want.

Unfortunately I'm PC/NA but thanks for the offer though!

PS4_ZeColmeia · November 2016

Vet I totally understand booting, on some of them the time commitment is too long. Normal, well that's sad because anyone strong enough to complain should be mostly soloing the dungeon anyways

Elara_Northwind · November 2016

When I am running dungeons for pledges and so forth, most of the time, I go with friends, that said, occasionally I play during 'unsociable' hours and think to myself, well I am bored, why not go on group finder

When I join group finder, I already know/suspect that I will be joining a group of less experienced players, this is something I accept when I press that little 'join queue' button, and so if any vote were cast to kick ANYONE I would decline it, because if people want an easy ride, they should not be on group finder in the first place

There have been people leave on occasion in these groups, due to them complaining and sending me whispers about other group members, and me telling them that I will not kick anyone

I personally don't mind taking the time to do dungeons with people who may be less experienced with the game and take longer, which is why I only join group finder at times when I have the time

Delimber · November 2016

I only read page 1 lol.

As a 600+ CP Tank I tend to get lots of practice with pledges, with guild mates, my friends list, and pugs.

Much like one of the earlier posts the groups I'm in tend to only kick the bad apples out or the DPS who is AFK on entering the dungeon because they were in queue for over a hour lol.

But I think the best advice is to join an active guild or 2. I know the guys I tend to run with are usually only looking for 400ish CP players, but only for pledges.

As for the 15 minute wait before re-queue, yeah it'd be nice to see that gone.

I think we all have stories about the light attack DPS's lol....Taunt, Block, Heal, Taunt, Block, Strike, etc, gets really old in a 20 minute boss fight lol.

And I've seen some 250ish CP players putting out some high end damage too, but those are few and far between.

SnubbS · November 2016

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

Sounds like you need a safe space.

If you're not competent enough to complete the content without being carried through it -- you shouldn't get the completion. I've never actually done the vote to kick option though, a bit too nerdy for me. Same goes for reporting others -- just a bit too nerdy for me.

What are you talking about? Who said he needs to be carried through? He didn't even get a chance to join the group.

Shouldn't you be saying this to the people who kicked him? Aren't they the ones who lack competence as they must be just grinding CP and now need someone with max CP to carry them? Thus the kicking?

You even have another post defending your comments where you seem unable to understand the OP beyond your desire to attack. Get over yourself.

Honestly, I find your post to be *** -- it's a really poor read.

Firstly, I've clarified in other posts that I was presenting an argument as to why he may have been kicked right away. You say that you've read my other posts -- if that's the case and you still cannot understand the "Competent" comments, I legitimately feel bad for you.

The hypothetical "mean" people who've kicked him could have done so for any number of reasons. It's pointless to attack them saying they're looking to get carried because they (in their minds) weren't looking to carrying someone with 130cp. That's an absurd position to take, and you should feel like an absolute mental midget for taking it.

The majority of players who play this game are capable enough to complete the content they're queueing for -- but not adept enough to carry dead weight -- does that make them as horrible and useless as the 50cp kids? It's called being average. The kids with 300-400 cp will kick low levels more often than the 561s -- and that's down to the fact that they actually fear for their inability to complete the content -- as they should. Let's also not forget that the majority of under 150 cp players are virtually useless and it's down to lack experience with the game and not cp.

Sibenice · November 2016

I've recently come back to the game. And decided to try some dungeons. I got kicked for being low CP (240) and low dps.

Instead of whining about getting kicked I took a hard look at myself. My gear wasn't great and my ability/rotation set up was out of date.

I asked around for a way to check my damage and was informed of an addon. Got that downloaded, looked up a build, crafted myself a Julianos set (magicka sorc) with three purples and two oranges, paid to reset all my skill points, set up the new build, went out and leveled some skills I hadn't had before and tried again.

I'm definitely still not up there with the best. The rest of my gear is not great (3pc Vicious Death and 3pc Willpower with bad traits because that's all I could afford) and I'm still considered low CP but I'm doing much more damage than I was before and have successfully completed all dungeons I've attempted since.

Do I think it's okay that people are getting kicked as they join the dungeon just for their level? Absolutely not. If lower level CP people shouldn't be in some of the dungeons then they shouldn't be able to join them in the first place. Especially when you're queuing random for the bonuses. But that's not up to the players to fix.

I also think a 15m debuff for being kicked is stupid. The queue times take long enough as a dps that it basically means you have to wait 40-50m just to get into another dungeon.

TLDR: If you're getting kicked see what you can do to improve yourself before you go getting butthurt over the people who kicked you. But the system does need changes to make it more reasonable for new and vet players alike.

Jeremy · November 2016

Paneross wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Don't use the group finder if you are going to kick people before giving them a chance.

I will continue to do so and kick anyone under 400cp.

This is such a stupid and narrow-minded thing to do because there are a lot of really great players out there under 400 CP.

Just some food for thought, but if you are constantly having to kick players all the time because they don't have over 400 CP to beat dungeons - then maybe they aren't the problem if you take my meaning.

Jeremy · November 2016

DPShiro wrote: »

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

We have the RIGHT to choose who we want to play with and who we don't want to play with. That simple. We shouldn't be FORCED to play with whoever is just there.

No one is saying that you are forced to play with people you don't want to play with, so you can CHOOSE to leave that group, and find a group you would like to play with.

.

The entire group can also CHOOSE to kick the 4th person. ZOS gave us the power and the right to do so by popular vote.

Exactly.

And that's all fine and friggin dandy, but should the person the majority kicked be punished? Where is the others players CHOICE? Sit for 15 minutes and possibly get kicked again. This makes no sense.

If the player gets kicked over and over again, obvisouly they are not what people are looking for when using group finder, so maybe they should gear up/level up/git gud etc.

Majority votes, if everyone feels the same way, the person kicked is not a victim.

Huh, who knew that the victims of being lynched back in the 60's were not victims.

This relates to ESO how?

It relates to the argument being made in this thread that just because it is a majority doing something then that makes it fair and right.

Because it doesn't.

Jeremy · November 2016

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

Sounds like you need a safe space.

If you're not competent enough to complete the content without being carried through it -- you shouldn't get the completion. I've never actually done the vote to kick option though, a bit too nerdy for me. Same goes for reporting others -- just a bit too nerdy for me.

What are you talking about? Who said he needs to be carried through? He didn't even get a chance to join the group.

Shouldn't you be saying this to the people who kicked him? Aren't they the ones who lack competence as they must be just grinding CP and now need someone with max CP to carry them? Thus the kicking?

You even have another post defending your comments where you seem unable to understand the OP beyond your desire to attack. Get over yourself.

Exactly.

From the sound of it - it's the players who are doing the kicking in here that sound like they need to be carried to me.

Anyone who needs an entire party of 400+ CP to beat a vet dungeon needs to seriously re-think the way they play their character because that's ridiculous.

Cozzy1991 · November 2016

Paneross wrote: »

I'm guilty of this. I find 99% of randoms with lower CP don't know what their doing, don't output enough dps, don't heal, don't know mechanics. We shouldn't have to babysit lower CP levels. It's rude on their part to waste the time of others who are trying to do a quick dungeon.

I find 99% of people who use the finder in general don't know what they are doing.....Most of the time the lower CP in the finder have half a clue. (700CP player here)

Zedrian · November 2016

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Today, I queued random vet and got a healer who wasn't even CP 160. They were CP 40.

Do you know why I kicked them?

Because if your pre CP 160, you have no buisness queueing vet. Hell, preferibly pre CP 300 you shouldn't.

CP level sometimes doesn't reflect how well a player plays... I had the regret to vote to kick many CP 561 whom for example were wearing heavy armor with a Greatsword and spaming wrecking blow as their only ability.... (Sometimes I wonder how some players reached CP561...). In contrast I would of preferred a CP200 that knows his rotation (even not perfectly), provides the appropriate damage/healing/tanking output and trying to improve his gameplay...

For most vet dungeons it doesn't matter what CP level you are, while other dungeons with a pug group is often a nightmare...

Fodore · November 2016

Paneross wrote: »

I'm guilty of this. I find 99% of randoms with lower CP don't know what their doing, don't output enough dps, don't heal, don't know mechanics. We shouldn't have to babysit lower CP levels. It's rude on their part to waste the time of others who are trying to do a quick dungeon.

Get a group do to fast runs with then?

Loc2262 · November 2016

Jeremy wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

I will continue to do so and kick anyone under 400cp.

This is such a stupid and narrow-minded thing to do because there are a lot of really great players out there under 400 CP.

Agreed! I've seen players with the Flawless Conqueror title with less than 400 CP.

Doctordarkspawn · November 2016

Sibenice wrote: »

I've recently come back to the game. And decided to try some dungeons. I got kicked for being low CP (240) and low dps.

Instead of whining about getting kicked I took a hard look at myself. My gear wasn't great and my ability/rotation set up was out of date.

I asked around for a way to check my damage and was informed of an addon. Got that downloaded, looked up a build, crafted myself a Julianos set (magicka sorc) with three purples and two oranges, paid to reset all my skill points, set up the new build, went out and leveled some skills I hadn't had before and tried again.

I'm definitely still not up there with the best. The rest of my gear is not great (3pc Vicious Death and 3pc Willpower with bad traits because that's all I could afford) and I'm still considered low CP but I'm doing much more damage than I was before and have successfully completed all dungeons I've attempted since.

Do I think it's okay that people are getting kicked as they join the dungeon just for their level? Absolutely not. If lower level CP people shouldn't be in some of the dungeons then they shouldn't be able to join them in the first place. Especially when you're queuing random for the bonuses. But that's not up to the players to fix.

I also think a 15m debuff for being kicked is stupid. The queue times take long enough as a dps that it basically means you have to wait 40-50m just to get into another dungeon.

TLDR: If you're getting kicked see what you can do to improve yourself before you go getting butthurt over the people who kicked you. But the system does need changes to make it more reasonable for new and vet players alike.

It has not been said better. Is the system as it currently is broken? Yes. One Tamriel's effect on group content gave us a good hard look at the systems flaws and how the current scaling has not taken into account a good year or two of design clash, now we're really feeling it.

But at the same time, part of the onus is on players. And I'm very glad someone took the opportunity to improve.

@Sibenice I tip my hat to you.

Doctordarkspawn · November 2016

Zedrian wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Today, I queued random vet and got a healer who wasn't even CP 160. They were CP 40.

Do you know why I kicked them?

Because if your pre CP 160, you have no buisness queueing vet. Hell, preferibly pre CP 300 you shouldn't.

CP level sometimes doesn't reflect how well a player plays... I had the regret to vote to kick many CP 561 whom for example were wearing heavy armor with a Greatsword and spaming wrecking blow as their only ability.... (Sometimes I wonder how some players reached CP561...). In contrast I would of preferred a CP200 that knows his rotation (even not perfectly), provides the appropriate damage/healing/tanking output and trying to improve his gameplay...

For most vet dungeons it doesn't matter what CP level you are, while other dungeons with a pug group is often a nightmare...

There's a few circumstances at which I kick on instinct.

The first is twohanded users, the second is players below 160 (Who wouldn't be able to use Rubedite gear and are thus needlessly handicaping the group -exept- in healer roll) and, through the use of the combat metrics addon, people who are not hitting around 10 K damage.

And I dont find any of these unreasonable. The "CP is not skill" is something I hear alot and it's true, but even so it's the best gage we have without spending five minutes with a person.

Dasovaruilos · November 2016

This Activity Finder timer issue is so universally hated it seems that it is very odd that nobody from ZoS has said anything about it ever since it was implemented.

I used to really enjoy using Activity Finder. Not because I needed it, since as a healer it is kind of easy to find groups just using text chat and guilds.

But I liked to try and heal inexperienced players. The dungeons runs I remember more vividly were some White Gold-Tower runs with first-timers low levels. I can only do vet dungeons now because my second ever dungeon run was with a great group that took almost an hour in old normal Spindle teaching me basically every little thing.

But this timer... Along with Cyrodiil hourly crashes, it annoys me so much that I basically completely stopped using it. Even for randoms, I now try to form groups with guildies.

I hate voting to kick someone. I only do it when they are fake tanks, don't communicate and/or are rude and disrespectful.

But now, if you don't kick someone, lots of players just disband the group. And then everyone gets the timer.

There are so many simple things to decrease the dissatisfaction with AF...