"I don't see what the big deal is"

"It doesn't bother me"

"Who cares?"

"It's only cosmetics"

"You don't have to buy them"

A few of the popular closed-minded comments from the minority. It's important to ignore the ones who cannot put themselves in other people's shoes or who only care about their own situation. You won't convince them to understand so let them walk in the dark

Lack of faith, and a big "[SNIP]You" to fans - that's what crown crates mean for a lot of players, and I'll tell you why...

It boils down to a simple question: "Why doesn't ZOS just sell these items outright, in the crown store?"

And there is only one answer: THEY WANT YOU TO PAY FOR THE ITEM, AND THEN NOT GET IT, AND THEN PAY FOR IT AGAIN, PERHAPS SEVERAL SEVERAL TIMES, BEFORE THEY MAGICALLY DECIDE YOU CAN HAVE IT THROUGH 'RNG'

And with that stance, the issue becomes one of no trust, and exploitation - and that feeling certainly extends to the claim of 'random number generator.' If they treat their customers like this, I can't reward that type of behavior by continuing to monetarily support the game in any way.

I shake my head at you people who are so enraged over a game and the decisions a business makes with that game. That however is your choice.

Abeille wrote: »

summitxho wrote: »

I shake my head at you people who are so enraged over a game and the decisions a business makes with that game. That however is your choice.

That should be easy and quick to explain. We kinda want to remain able to play and enjoy the game, and the decisions ZOS is making are heavily suggesting that we won't be able to do so soon. Not everybody is a MMO hopper, you know.

Also I called for Santie but since Men'Do is here he gets ear scratches instead.

Well this to will be simple and quick. It wont happen. The game at some point will not make enough money to keep the lights on and go dark. Its the question of time that is the only unknown here

So the decision to release 1T for free, DLCS, updates to try and improve the game before these crown crates all get flushed and crates all of a sudden mean you will not be able to play your game? That's a reach....

Everyone is an MMO hopper, its how long it takes which varies.... since if they were not they would not be here and still playing their original MMO! Actually I am not an MMO hopper yet as this is my first one

summitxho wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

summitxho wrote: »

I shake my head at you people who are so enraged over a game and the decisions a business makes with that game. That however is your choice.

That should be easy and quick to explain. We kinda want to remain able to play and enjoy the game, and the decisions ZOS is making are heavily suggesting that we won't be able to do so soon. Not everybody is a MMO hopper, you know.

Also I called for Santie but since Men'Do is here he gets ear scratches instead.

Well this to will be simple and quick. It wont happen. The game at some point will not make enough money to keep the lights on and go dark. Its the question of time that is the only unknown here

So the decision to release 1T for free, DLCS, updates to try and improve the game before these crown crates all get flushed and crates all of a sudden mean you will not be able to play your game? That's a reach....

Everyone is an MMO hopper, its how long it takes which varies.... since if they were not they would not be here and still playing their original MMO! Actually I am not an MMO hopper yet as this is my first one

Okay, maybe it won't be as quick as I imagine. Here are the issues with your points:

1 - While no MMO lasts forever, ESO isn't even three years old yet, so players who are not MMO Hoppers certainly expected it to go on for a few more years. And ESO has a kind of niche player base that is similar to what LOTRO has. LOTRO is turning 10 years old next year.

2 - We went from "One DLC per quarter" to "Not every DLC will be big like Orsinium" and finally to "Not every quarterly update will be a DLC". The kind of update that One Tamriel was is not the kind of update that can be sold, but it is the kind of update that, like the removal of veteran ranks, could be rolled out with a DLC. But we are on the "Not every quarterly update will be a DLC", now. You know, the scarceness of content that happens when the company changes their focus to something else (that being the Crates). It doesn't get better from here. That's what RNG Boxes mean in MMOs: Content release slowing down, Free to Play transition and a last ditch effort to make as much money as possible before lights go out. The Crates do not mean I am automatically unable to play the game, they mean we are in a downward spiral that will result in, yes, not being able to enjoy or to even play the game anymore.

3 - This is false. A MMO Hopper is someone that isn't attached to a MMO and will move to the next shiny thing whenever it shows up. Maybe your definition of MMO Hopper is not the common definition.

4 - I see. Since it is your first MMO, you didn't see this process happen in other MMOs before, and that's why you can't understand the harm that these things cause. But I will let you know that we are not being paranoid here. This happened many times before, and we have a person who did this to other MMOs working with ZOS now. I hope you pay attention to what happens on the next few months and take this experience to your next MMO.

summitxho wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

summitxho wrote: »

I shake my head at you people who are so enraged over a game and the decisions a business makes with that game. That however is your choice.

That should be easy and quick to explain. We kinda want to remain able to play and enjoy the game, and the decisions ZOS is making are heavily suggesting that we won't be able to do so soon. Not everybody is a MMO hopper, you know.

Also I called for Santie but since Men'Do is here he gets ear scratches instead.

Well this to will be simple and quick. It wont happen. The game at some point will not make enough money to keep the lights on and go dark. Its the question of time that is the only unknown here

So the decision to release 1T for free, DLCS, updates to try and improve the game before these crown crates all get flushed and crates all of a sudden mean you will not be able to play your game? That's a reach....

Everyone is an MMO hopper, its how long it takes which varies.... since if they were not they would not be here and still playing their original MMO! Actually I am not an MMO hopper yet as this is my first one

This is your first mmo. I can respect your outlook then. I have played an incredible amount of MMO's. I have played this one since launch because it's business model is one I can respect and it's elder scrolls. Every other MMO I have played either didn't interest me or they pulled moves like this. That has been the difference between the max of 6 months elsewhere compared to 2.5 years here.

I have played a large majority of the MMO's the new marketing director has worked on. I hate every single one. Some of them were fine before she gave them her micro transactions strategy makeover. This game isn't hurting financially. From what I've seen there has to have been an increase in popularity and revenue.

Games are implementing these because they work so effectively at milking large amounts of money from people. I've seen games that have gotten very low reviews compared to previous installments, yet post record profits. There is something wrong with that.

I for one dislike seeing them waste time and development resources on a glorified slot machine when they could be allocating them to things like Vvardenfell, or more of Skyrim.

Abeille wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Algraxa wrote: »

Oh my.. someone needs a safe zone with a puppy and crayons.

That sounds very pleasant. What's wrong with puppies and crayons?

Not so much crayons, but I'd appreciate a puppy certainly.

Yes for puppies. And kitties, too.

Likewise here. I did not get my recommended dosage of puppies this year.

summitxho wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

summitxho wrote: »

I shake my head at you people who are so enraged over a game and the decisions a business makes with that game. That however is your choice.

I can't understand why people who oppose crown crates are continuously characterized as being "enraged" or whatnot. I'm not seeing a lot of caps-lock, frothing at the mouth rage posts in these threads. Sure there is the occasional s**t-post, but most of the crown crate antagonists are posting calm, well thought out arguments for why they believe crates will detract from a game they otherwise thoroughly enjoy.

These forums exist as a way for customers to give feedback about the "game and the decisions a business makes with that game." The vast majority of the people arguing against the crates are doing just that in a very calm and reasonable manner. Why all the mischaracterizations?

Are you speaking in this thread specifically? Or all threads about it? You might want to look into some of the older ones. I did not refer to you or anyone else

Abeille wrote: »

summitxho wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

summitxho wrote: »

I shake my head at you people who are so enraged over a game and the decisions a business makes with that game. That however is your choice.

That should be easy and quick to explain. We kinda want to remain able to play and enjoy the game, and the decisions ZOS is making are heavily suggesting that we won't be able to do so soon. Not everybody is a MMO hopper, you know.

Also I called for Santie but since Men'Do is here he gets ear scratches instead.

Well this to will be simple and quick. It wont happen. The game at some point will not make enough money to keep the lights on and go dark. Its the question of time that is the only unknown here

So the decision to release 1T for free, DLCS, updates to try and improve the game before these crown crates all get flushed and crates all of a sudden mean you will not be able to play your game? That's a reach....

Everyone is an MMO hopper, its how long it takes which varies.... since if they were not they would not be here and still playing their original MMO! Actually I am not an MMO hopper yet as this is my first one

Okay, maybe it won't be as quick as I imagine. Here are the issues with your points:

1 - While no MMO lasts forever, ESO isn't even three years old yet, so players who are not MMO Hoppers certainly expected it to go on for a few more years. And ESO has a kind of niche player base that is similar to what LOTRO has. LOTRO is turning 10 years old next year.

2 - We went from "One DLC per quarter" to "Not every DLC will be big like Orsinium" and finally to "Not every quarterly update will be a DLC". The kind of update that One Tamriel was is not the kind of update that can be sold, but it is the kind of update that, like the removal of veteran ranks, could be rolled out with a DLC. But we are on the "Not every quarterly update will be a DLC", now. You know, the scarceness of content that happens when the company changes their focus to something else (that being the Crates). It doesn't get better from here. That's what RNG Boxes mean in MMOs: Content release slowing down, Free to Play transition and a last ditch effort to make as much money as possible before lights go out. The Crates do not mean I am automatically unable to play the game, they mean we are in a downward spiral that will result in, yes, not being able to enjoy or to even play the game anymore.

3 - This is false. A MMO Hopper is someone that isn't attached to a MMO and will move to the next shiny thing whenever it shows up. Maybe your definition of MMO Hopper is not the common definition.

4 - I see. Since it is your first MMO, you didn't see this process happen in other MMOs before, and that's why you can't understand the harm that these things cause. But I will let you know that we are not being paranoid here. This happened many times before, and we have a person who did this to other MMOs working with ZOS now. I hope you pay attention to what happens on the next few months and take this experience to your next MMO.

1. Who says it will not go on another few years? I know you are, but as per my previous posting thats simply your opinion, not a fact. I think they have an end game right around the next Elder Scrolls release, thats about the only guess I can make, logic behind it is many of the players I feel will leave it behind when a new and shiny elder scrolls title releases. I think they are more than on track to meet that target, I know I don't have any plans on leaving anytime soon.

2. So? That's life, sometimes you get a lot of great content per year, others you do not. Sometimes mcdonalds rolls out a new burger, sometimes they do not, its business, and factors we do not get to see are what determines it, so lets not pretend to know the details, there could be many reasons why DLC quality varies from year to year, maybe its because they have started losing revenue already. All I can say which is the only fact here, I have been happy with what they have rolled out so far, and I have been given no reasons to not expect some great new DLCs in the future, not everyone burns through stuff in a month, I have yet to even touch the Orsinium DLC, I have plenty of game to play for a while yet.

3. How can you say something is false for a made up definition? The actual definition of hopper is as follows:
a container for a bulk material such as grain, rock, or trash, typically one that tapers downward and is able to discharge its contents at the bottom.
OR
a person or thing that hops.

Even going by your definition of hopper, well I am sorry to say but I think a strong argument can be made that the bulk of a game stuidos money is made from the casual player, the "hopper" as you put it, they are going to follow the money. So cannot blame them as again, their goal is to make money.

4. Correct, first MMO and I have not seen this happen before, but you know what I am well versed in? Business. Your assumptions that crown crates destroys games (which would be bad for business) makes no sense to me when looked at with a business perspective. Being as ZOS is a multi million dollar company, I tend to believe they know how to run their business better than you.

1 - This kind of strategy is implemented when a MMO enters the "get as much as you can as fast as possible" phase. It doesn't mean the servers will shut down, but it means development of content will slow down (or even stop, if the game is put on life support in the end). I don't know it will happen to ESO, I know there is a big chance that it will because it happened to many other MMOs before it. The pattern is there when you are used to it from past experiences.

2 - "So" that we had a visible decrease in content, with no peaks, for the entire year. I would almost agree with you if we got another big DLC already, and I would absolutely agree there was a DLC announced that entered production before the specialist on F2P transition was hired, but that wasn't the case. Argue this again when we start going upwards on content release again, maybe? It will make more sense. Because, right now, it doesn't.

3 - Language is a way of expression of a culture, and not all of the words and expressions used by that culture will be found on the dictionary. The definition of such words and expressions depend solely on how they are used, and the way you used it isn't the way it is commonly used. A MMO Hopper ("hopper" from "hop", hopping", jumping from one to the other) is a player who doesn't get attached to a specific MMO and "jumps MMOs" as the new fad shows up. Forgot to add: Yes, the bulk is made on MMO Hoppers, Matt said himself the on-and-off player is the target. I am not arguing that MMO Hoppers are not the focus, I am arguing that it sucks for people that, like me, are NOT MMO Hoppers. Which I hoped would be understandable even if you are not the same kind of player I am, but since you say you don't understand why we are frustrated, I guess it is not as understandable as I hoped. It can be hard to put yourself on other people's shoes sometimes, I can understand that.

4 - You, like others before you, are making wrongful assumptions regarding ZOS and their objectives with ESO. You see, you would be absolutely correct if ESO was a long-term plan for ZOS - and you have no idea of how I wish that was the case - but we have a person working with them that is specialized on F2P transition strategies, which points on the direction of ESO not being a long-term plan anymore. You are well-versed in business; if your company was backed by a mother company that owned many popular franchises and you came to the conclusion that moving on to the next project would be more profitable, what would you do with the old project that isn't as profitable as you have hoped? Because that's what the companies in the MMO industry do. They make a last ditch effort to get as much money as they can and then use that money to fund their next project. This happens all the time, it is absolutely normal for them to do that, but it kinda sucks for the player base of the old project.

Abeille wrote: »

summitxho wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

summitxho wrote: »

I shake my head at you people who are so enraged over a game and the decisions a business makes with that game. That however is your choice.

I can't understand why people who oppose crown crates are continuously characterized as being "enraged" or whatnot. I'm not seeing a lot of caps-lock, frothing at the mouth rage posts in these threads. Sure there is the occasional s**t-post, but most of the crown crate antagonists are posting calm, well thought out arguments for why they believe crates will detract from a game they otherwise thoroughly enjoy.

These forums exist as a way for customers to give feedback about the "game and the decisions a business makes with that game." The vast majority of the people arguing against the crates are doing just that in a very calm and reasonable manner. Why all the mischaracterizations?

Are you speaking in this thread specifically? Or all threads about it? You might want to look into some of the older ones. I did not refer to you or anyone else

Abeille wrote: »

summitxho wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

summitxho wrote: »

I shake my head at you people who are so enraged over a game and the decisions a business makes with that game. That however is your choice.

That should be easy and quick to explain. We kinda want to remain able to play and enjoy the game, and the decisions ZOS is making are heavily suggesting that we won't be able to do so soon. Not everybody is a MMO hopper, you know.

Also I called for Santie but since Men'Do is here he gets ear scratches instead.

Well this to will be simple and quick. It wont happen. The game at some point will not make enough money to keep the lights on and go dark. Its the question of time that is the only unknown here

So the decision to release 1T for free, DLCS, updates to try and improve the game before these crown crates all get flushed and crates all of a sudden mean you will not be able to play your game? That's a reach....

Everyone is an MMO hopper, its how long it takes which varies.... since if they were not they would not be here and still playing their original MMO! Actually I am not an MMO hopper yet as this is my first one

Okay, maybe it won't be as quick as I imagine. Here are the issues with your points:

1 - While no MMO lasts forever, ESO isn't even three years old yet, so players who are not MMO Hoppers certainly expected it to go on for a few more years. And ESO has a kind of niche player base that is similar to what LOTRO has. LOTRO is turning 10 years old next year.

2 - We went from "One DLC per quarter" to "Not every DLC will be big like Orsinium" and finally to "Not every quarterly update will be a DLC". The kind of update that One Tamriel was is not the kind of update that can be sold, but it is the kind of update that, like the removal of veteran ranks, could be rolled out with a DLC. But we are on the "Not every quarterly update will be a DLC", now. You know, the scarceness of content that happens when the company changes their focus to something else (that being the Crates). It doesn't get better from here. That's what RNG Boxes mean in MMOs: Content release slowing down, Free to Play transition and a last ditch effort to make as much money as possible before lights go out. The Crates do not mean I am automatically unable to play the game, they mean we are in a downward spiral that will result in, yes, not being able to enjoy or to even play the game anymore.

3 - This is false. A MMO Hopper is someone that isn't attached to a MMO and will move to the next shiny thing whenever it shows up. Maybe your definition of MMO Hopper is not the common definition.

4 - I see. Since it is your first MMO, you didn't see this process happen in other MMOs before, and that's why you can't understand the harm that these things cause. But I will let you know that we are not being paranoid here. This happened many times before, and we have a person who did this to other MMOs working with ZOS now. I hope you pay attention to what happens on the next few months and take this experience to your next MMO.

1. Who says it will not go on another few years? I know you are, but as per my previous posting thats simply your opinion, not a fact. I think they have an end game right around the next Elder Scrolls release, thats about the only guess I can make, logic behind it is many of the players I feel will leave it behind when a new and shiny elder scrolls title releases. I think they are more than on track to meet that target, I know I don't have any plans on leaving anytime soon.

2. So? That's life, sometimes you get a lot of great content per year, others you do not. Sometimes mcdonalds rolls out a new burger, sometimes they do not, its business, and factors we do not get to see are what determines it, so lets not pretend to know the details, there could be many reasons why DLC quality varies from year to year, maybe its because they have started losing revenue already. All I can say which is the only fact here, I have been happy with what they have rolled out so far, and I have been given no reasons to not expect some great new DLCs in the future, not everyone burns through stuff in a month, I have yet to even touch the Orsinium DLC, I have plenty of game to play for a while yet.

3. How can you say something is false for a made up definition? The actual definition of hopper is as follows:
a container for a bulk material such as grain, rock, or trash, typically one that tapers downward and is able to discharge its contents at the bottom.
OR
a person or thing that hops.

Even going by your definition of hopper, well I am sorry to say but I think a strong argument can be made that the bulk of a game stuidos money is made from the casual player, the "hopper" as you put it, they are going to follow the money. So cannot blame them as again, their goal is to make money.

4. Correct, first MMO and I have not seen this happen before, but you know what I am well versed in? Business. Your assumptions that crown crates destroys games (which would be bad for business) makes no sense to me when looked at with a business perspective. Being as ZOS is a multi million dollar company, I tend to believe they know how to run their business better than you.

1 - This kind of strategy is implemented when a MMO enters the "get as much as you can as fast as possible" phase. It doesn't mean the servers will shut down, but it means development of content will slow down (or even stop, if the game is put on life support in the end). I don't know it will happen to ESO, I know there is a big chance that it will because it happened to many other MMOs before it. The pattern is there when you are used to it from past experiences.

2 - "So" that we had a visible decrease in content, with no peaks, for the entire year. I would almost agree with you if we got another big DLC already, and I would absolutely agree there was a DLC announced that entered production before the specialist on F2P transition was hired, but that wasn't the case. Argue this again when we start going upwards on content release again, maybe? It will make more sense. Because, right now, it doesn't.

3 - Language is a way of expression of a culture, and not all of the words and expressions used by that culture will be found on the dictionary. The definition of such words and expressions depend solely on how they are used, and the way you used it isn't the way it is commonly used. A MMO Hopper ("hopper" from "hop", hopping", jumping from one to the other) is a player who doesn't get attached to a specific MMO and "jumps MMOs" as the new fad shows up.

4 - You, like others before you, are making wrongful assumptions regarding ZOS and their objectives with ESO. You see, you would be absolutely correct if ESO was a long-term plan for ZOS - and you have no idea of how I wish that was the case - but we have a person working with them that is specialized on F2P transition strategies, which points on the direction of ESO not being a long-term plan anymore. You are well-versed in business; if your company was backed by a mother company that owned many popular franchises and you came to the conclusion that moving on to the next project would be more profitable, what would you do with the old project that isn't as profitable as you have hoped? Because that's what the companies in the MMO industry do. They make a last ditch effort to get as much money as they can and then use that money to fund their next project. This happens all the time, it is absolutely normal for them to do that, but it kinda sucks for the player base of the old project.

1. Maybe the content will slow down, that's not what is being debated here as I agree, content will slow down eventually. Its the fact that the slow down was directly caused by crown crates which is what you are saying, which again, makes no sense when looking at it in a business perspective.

2. Is there not rumblings about some big DLC coming? Vvardenfell I think it was. 1T was just released, that was pretty big, and while not DLC, it was an update, same with the dueling. Its there, I dont personally have any idea the scope of work to implement these. How does it not make sense that year by year, DLC release will vary depending on many factors.

3. Point still stands, thats a pretty loose definition that leaves a lot to interpretation, and I would hardly call this culture and language, its computer speak for MMO, which I am admittedly not well versed on, regardless the point you made with it still does not hold up, as casuals is where the money is at, so unfortunately that is where they are going to direct their attention to. Try to appease everyone, but most importantly appease the biggest portion of your customer base.

4.You are also making assumptions, thats all we have as there are no facts, despite how badly you want me to believe they are. I said repeatedly I dont think ESO has long term plans, I just dont have a problem with them making money on something we can CHOOSE to partake in, if it adds some content to the game and extends it a bit more, great. In your example I would do exactly what ZOS is doing, its capitalism, make as much as you can while you can. While you think its unfair, its just the way it is, as stated before, a business does not cater to you, they cater to money. In their best interests they want to keep customers happy, but when that no longer makes much of a difference, time to make the most of it while the lights are still on. Harsh, but true.

summitxho wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

summitxho wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

summitxho wrote: »

I shake my head at you people who are so enraged over a game and the decisions a business makes with that game. That however is your choice.

I can't understand why people who oppose crown crates are continuously characterized as being "enraged" or whatnot. I'm not seeing a lot of caps-lock, frothing at the mouth rage posts in these threads. Sure there is the occasional s**t-post, but most of the crown crate antagonists are posting calm, well thought out arguments for why they believe crates will detract from a game they otherwise thoroughly enjoy.

These forums exist as a way for customers to give feedback about the "game and the decisions a business makes with that game." The vast majority of the people arguing against the crates are doing just that in a very calm and reasonable manner. Why all the mischaracterizations?

Are you speaking in this thread specifically? Or all threads about it? You might want to look into some of the older ones. I did not refer to you or anyone else

Abeille wrote: »

summitxho wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

summitxho wrote: »

I shake my head at you people who are so enraged over a game and the decisions a business makes with that game. That however is your choice.

That should be easy and quick to explain. We kinda want to remain able to play and enjoy the game, and the decisions ZOS is making are heavily suggesting that we won't be able to do so soon. Not everybody is a MMO hopper, you know.

Also I called for Santie but since Men'Do is here he gets ear scratches instead.

Well this to will be simple and quick. It wont happen. The game at some point will not make enough money to keep the lights on and go dark. Its the question of time that is the only unknown here

So the decision to release 1T for free, DLCS, updates to try and improve the game before these crown crates all get flushed and crates all of a sudden mean you will not be able to play your game? That's a reach....

Everyone is an MMO hopper, its how long it takes which varies.... since if they were not they would not be here and still playing their original MMO! Actually I am not an MMO hopper yet as this is my first one

Okay, maybe it won't be as quick as I imagine. Here are the issues with your points:

1 - While no MMO lasts forever, ESO isn't even three years old yet, so players who are not MMO Hoppers certainly expected it to go on for a few more years. And ESO has a kind of niche player base that is similar to what LOTRO has. LOTRO is turning 10 years old next year.

2 - We went from "One DLC per quarter" to "Not every DLC will be big like Orsinium" and finally to "Not every quarterly update will be a DLC". The kind of update that One Tamriel was is not the kind of update that can be sold, but it is the kind of update that, like the removal of veteran ranks, could be rolled out with a DLC. But we are on the "Not every quarterly update will be a DLC", now. You know, the scarceness of content that happens when the company changes their focus to something else (that being the Crates). It doesn't get better from here. That's what RNG Boxes mean in MMOs: Content release slowing down, Free to Play transition and a last ditch effort to make as much money as possible before lights go out. The Crates do not mean I am automatically unable to play the game, they mean we are in a downward spiral that will result in, yes, not being able to enjoy or to even play the game anymore.

3 - This is false. A MMO Hopper is someone that isn't attached to a MMO and will move to the next shiny thing whenever it shows up. Maybe your definition of MMO Hopper is not the common definition.

4 - I see. Since it is your first MMO, you didn't see this process happen in other MMOs before, and that's why you can't understand the harm that these things cause. But I will let you know that we are not being paranoid here. This happened many times before, and we have a person who did this to other MMOs working with ZOS now. I hope you pay attention to what happens on the next few months and take this experience to your next MMO.

1. Who says it will not go on another few years? I know you are, but as per my previous posting thats simply your opinion, not a fact. I think they have an end game right around the next Elder Scrolls release, thats about the only guess I can make, logic behind it is many of the players I feel will leave it behind when a new and shiny elder scrolls title releases. I think they are more than on track to meet that target, I know I don't have any plans on leaving anytime soon.

2. So? That's life, sometimes you get a lot of great content per year, others you do not. Sometimes mcdonalds rolls out a new burger, sometimes they do not, its business, and factors we do not get to see are what determines it, so lets not pretend to know the details, there could be many reasons why DLC quality varies from year to year, maybe its because they have started losing revenue already. All I can say which is the only fact here, I have been happy with what they have rolled out so far, and I have been given no reasons to not expect some great new DLCs in the future, not everyone burns through stuff in a month, I have yet to even touch the Orsinium DLC, I have plenty of game to play for a while yet.

3. How can you say something is false for a made up definition? The actual definition of hopper is as follows:
a container for a bulk material such as grain, rock, or trash, typically one that tapers downward and is able to discharge its contents at the bottom.
OR
a person or thing that hops.

Even going by your definition of hopper, well I am sorry to say but I think a strong argument can be made that the bulk of a game stuidos money is made from the casual player, the "hopper" as you put it, they are going to follow the money. So cannot blame them as again, their goal is to make money.

4. Correct, first MMO and I have not seen this happen before, but you know what I am well versed in? Business. Your assumptions that crown crates destroys games (which would be bad for business) makes no sense to me when looked at with a business perspective. Being as ZOS is a multi million dollar company, I tend to believe they know how to run their business better than you.

1 - This kind of strategy is implemented when a MMO enters the "get as much as you can as fast as possible" phase. It doesn't mean the servers will shut down, but it means development of content will slow down (or even stop, if the game is put on life support in the end). I don't know it will happen to ESO, I know there is a big chance that it will because it happened to many other MMOs before it. The pattern is there when you are used to it from past experiences.

2 - "So" that we had a visible decrease in content, with no peaks, for the entire year. I would almost agree with you if we got another big DLC already, and I would absolutely agree there was a DLC announced that entered production before the specialist on F2P transition was hired, but that wasn't the case. Argue this again when we start going upwards on content release again, maybe? It will make more sense. Because, right now, it doesn't.

3 - Language is a way of expression of a culture, and not all of the words and expressions used by that culture will be found on the dictionary. The definition of such words and expressions depend solely on how they are used, and the way you used it isn't the way it is commonly used. A MMO Hopper ("hopper" from "hop", hopping", jumping from one to the other) is a player who doesn't get attached to a specific MMO and "jumps MMOs" as the new fad shows up.

4 - You, like others before you, are making wrongful assumptions regarding ZOS and their objectives with ESO. You see, you would be absolutely correct if ESO was a long-term plan for ZOS - and you have no idea of how I wish that was the case - but we have a person working with them that is specialized on F2P transition strategies, which points on the direction of ESO not being a long-term plan anymore. You are well-versed in business; if your company was backed by a mother company that owned many popular franchises and you came to the conclusion that moving on to the next project would be more profitable, what would you do with the old project that isn't as profitable as you have hoped? Because that's what the companies in the MMO industry do. They make a last ditch effort to get as much money as they can and then use that money to fund their next project. This happens all the time, it is absolutely normal for them to do that, but it kinda sucks for the player base of the old project.

1. Maybe the content will slow down, that's not what is being debated here as I agree, content will slow down eventually. Its the fact that the slow down was directly caused by crown crates which is what you are saying, which again, makes no sense when looking at it in a business perspective.

2. Is there not rumblings about some big DLC coming? Vvardenfell I think it was. 1T was just released, that was pretty big, and while not DLC, it was an update, same with the dueling. Its there, I dont personally have any idea the scope of work to implement these. How does it not make sense that year by year, DLC release will vary depending on many factors.

3. Point still stands, thats a pretty loose definition that leaves a lot to interpretation, and I would hardly call this culture and language, its computer speak for MMO, which I am admittedly not well versed on, regardless the point you made with it still does not hold up, as casuals is where the money is at, so unfortunately that is where they are going to direct their attention to. Try to appease everyone, but most importantly appease the biggest portion of your customer base.

4.You are also making assumptions, thats all we have as there are no facts, despite how badly you want me to believe they are. I said repeatedly I dont think ESO has long term plans, I just dont have a problem with them making money on something we can CHOOSE to partake in, if it adds some content to the game and extends it a bit more, great. In your example I would do exactly what ZOS is doing, its capitalism, make as much as you can while you can. While you think its unfair, its just the way it is, as stated before, a business does not cater to you, they cater to money. In their best interests they want to keep customers happy, but when that no longer makes much of a difference, time to make the most of it while the lights are still on. Harsh, but true.

1 - That is the main concern of the people who are against the crates. And it isn't absurd from a business standpoint when you do not plan to stick to that project much longer. It happens all the time in the MMO industry, and it is what we are worried about. We don't want this to happen here.

2 - Vvardenfell was datamined three months after the lady was hired, which means it had to be on production before she got in the team. The issue is that the information changed as time went by. If they had said outright that "We will have one update every quarter, can be a DLC or not, and not all DLCs will be of the same size" we wouldn't be arguing this. But the statement changed as time went by.

3 - If you wish to keep that ground. MMOs have a very specific lingo, and that's part of it. You could have just said outright that you are not familiar with it, that's fine, it isn't your obligation to know the expressions commonly used in MMOs, especially since you are new to them. But that's what it means. Also, casuals and MMO Hoppers are not the same thing. And it doesn't changes the fact that appeasing to MMO Hoppers on this way is bad for the healthy of the game in the long run, and, again, sucks for players who stick to the game.

4 - The problem is that you don't CHOOSE to partake on the damage caused by those things. People who buy the crates and people who do not will suffer the consequences of a sunk game all the same. I am making informed guesses more than assumptions, based on the pattern ZOS is following and the person hired to trace it in the ground for them. And I am not saying that doing that is unfair, I'm saying that it sucks for people who stick with the game. I'm glad you admit that you would do the same, because then you see how using the crates to sink the game in order to make as much money as you can before turning off the lights actually makes sense from a business standpoint and I can rest my case.

You must understand that we have people here who had been playing Elder Scrolls games for their entire lives. Would you be fine if someone took something you really loved for your whole life and ruined it completely in the name of "capitalism"? And then some people came to you completely disregarding it and telling you to keep quiet and just let it happen because "that's how it is"?
Maybe I'm getting old, maybe it is because I'm a lawyer, but I will speak up when someone takes something I love from me.

summitxho wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

summitxho wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

summitxho wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

summitxho wrote: »

I shake my head at you people who are so enraged over a game and the decisions a business makes with that game. That however is your choice.

I can't understand why people who oppose crown crates are continuously characterized as being "enraged" or whatnot. I'm not seeing a lot of caps-lock, frothing at the mouth rage posts in these threads. Sure there is the occasional s**t-post, but most of the crown crate antagonists are posting calm, well thought out arguments for why they believe crates will detract from a game they otherwise thoroughly enjoy.

These forums exist as a way for customers to give feedback about the "game and the decisions a business makes with that game." The vast majority of the people arguing against the crates are doing just that in a very calm and reasonable manner. Why all the mischaracterizations?

Are you speaking in this thread specifically? Or all threads about it? You might want to look into some of the older ones. I did not refer to you or anyone else

Abeille wrote: »

summitxho wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

summitxho wrote: »

I shake my head at you people who are so enraged over a game and the decisions a business makes with that game. That however is your choice.

That should be easy and quick to explain. We kinda want to remain able to play and enjoy the game, and the decisions ZOS is making are heavily suggesting that we won't be able to do so soon. Not everybody is a MMO hopper, you know.

Also I called for Santie but since Men'Do is here he gets ear scratches instead.

Well this to will be simple and quick. It wont happen. The game at some point will not make enough money to keep the lights on and go dark. Its the question of time that is the only unknown here

So the decision to release 1T for free, DLCS, updates to try and improve the game before these crown crates all get flushed and crates all of a sudden mean you will not be able to play your game? That's a reach....

Everyone is an MMO hopper, its how long it takes which varies.... since if they were not they would not be here and still playing their original MMO! Actually I am not an MMO hopper yet as this is my first one

Okay, maybe it won't be as quick as I imagine. Here are the issues with your points:

1 - While no MMO lasts forever, ESO isn't even three years old yet, so players who are not MMO Hoppers certainly expected it to go on for a few more years. And ESO has a kind of niche player base that is similar to what LOTRO has. LOTRO is turning 10 years old next year.

2 - We went from "One DLC per quarter" to "Not every DLC will be big like Orsinium" and finally to "Not every quarterly update will be a DLC". The kind of update that One Tamriel was is not the kind of update that can be sold, but it is the kind of update that, like the removal of veteran ranks, could be rolled out with a DLC. But we are on the "Not every quarterly update will be a DLC", now. You know, the scarceness of content that happens when the company changes their focus to something else (that being the Crates). It doesn't get better from here. That's what RNG Boxes mean in MMOs: Content release slowing down, Free to Play transition and a last ditch effort to make as much money as possible before lights go out. The Crates do not mean I am automatically unable to play the game, they mean we are in a downward spiral that will result in, yes, not being able to enjoy or to even play the game anymore.

3 - This is false. A MMO Hopper is someone that isn't attached to a MMO and will move to the next shiny thing whenever it shows up. Maybe your definition of MMO Hopper is not the common definition.

4 - I see. Since it is your first MMO, you didn't see this process happen in other MMOs before, and that's why you can't understand the harm that these things cause. But I will let you know that we are not being paranoid here. This happened many times before, and we have a person who did this to other MMOs working with ZOS now. I hope you pay attention to what happens on the next few months and take this experience to your next MMO.

1. Who says it will not go on another few years? I know you are, but as per my previous posting thats simply your opinion, not a fact. I think they have an end game right around the next Elder Scrolls release, thats about the only guess I can make, logic behind it is many of the players I feel will leave it behind when a new and shiny elder scrolls title releases. I think they are more than on track to meet that target, I know I don't have any plans on leaving anytime soon.

2. So? That's life, sometimes you get a lot of great content per year, others you do not. Sometimes mcdonalds rolls out a new burger, sometimes they do not, its business, and factors we do not get to see are what determines it, so lets not pretend to know the details, there could be many reasons why DLC quality varies from year to year, maybe its because they have started losing revenue already. All I can say which is the only fact here, I have been happy with what they have rolled out so far, and I have been given no reasons to not expect some great new DLCs in the future, not everyone burns through stuff in a month, I have yet to even touch the Orsinium DLC, I have plenty of game to play for a while yet.

3. How can you say something is false for a made up definition? The actual definition of hopper is as follows:
a container for a bulk material such as grain, rock, or trash, typically one that tapers downward and is able to discharge its contents at the bottom.
OR
a person or thing that hops.

Even going by your definition of hopper, well I am sorry to say but I think a strong argument can be made that the bulk of a game stuidos money is made from the casual player, the "hopper" as you put it, they are going to follow the money. So cannot blame them as again, their goal is to make money.

4. Correct, first MMO and I have not seen this happen before, but you know what I am well versed in? Business. Your assumptions that crown crates destroys games (which would be bad for business) makes no sense to me when looked at with a business perspective. Being as ZOS is a multi million dollar company, I tend to believe they know how to run their business better than you.

1 - This kind of strategy is implemented when a MMO enters the "get as much as you can as fast as possible" phase. It doesn't mean the servers will shut down, but it means development of content will slow down (or even stop, if the game is put on life support in the end). I don't know it will happen to ESO, I know there is a big chance that it will because it happened to many other MMOs before it. The pattern is there when you are used to it from past experiences.

2 - "So" that we had a visible decrease in content, with no peaks, for the entire year. I would almost agree with you if we got another big DLC already, and I would absolutely agree there was a DLC announced that entered production before the specialist on F2P transition was hired, but that wasn't the case. Argue this again when we start going upwards on content release again, maybe? It will make more sense. Because, right now, it doesn't.

3 - Language is a way of expression of a culture, and not all of the words and expressions used by that culture will be found on the dictionary. The definition of such words and expressions depend solely on how they are used, and the way you used it isn't the way it is commonly used. A MMO Hopper ("hopper" from "hop", hopping", jumping from one to the other) is a player who doesn't get attached to a specific MMO and "jumps MMOs" as the new fad shows up.

4 - You, like others before you, are making wrongful assumptions regarding ZOS and their objectives with ESO. You see, you would be absolutely correct if ESO was a long-term plan for ZOS - and you have no idea of how I wish that was the case - but we have a person working with them that is specialized on F2P transition strategies, which points on the direction of ESO not being a long-term plan anymore. You are well-versed in business; if your company was backed by a mother company that owned many popular franchises and you came to the conclusion that moving on to the next project would be more profitable, what would you do with the old project that isn't as profitable as you have hoped? Because that's what the companies in the MMO industry do. They make a last ditch effort to get as much money as they can and then use that money to fund their next project. This happens all the time, it is absolutely normal for them to do that, but it kinda sucks for the player base of the old project.

1. Maybe the content will slow down, that's not what is being debated here as I agree, content will slow down eventually. Its the fact that the slow down was directly caused by crown crates which is what you are saying, which again, makes no sense when looking at it in a business perspective.

2. Is there not rumblings about some big DLC coming? Vvardenfell I think it was. 1T was just released, that was pretty big, and while not DLC, it was an update, same with the dueling. Its there, I dont personally have any idea the scope of work to implement these. How does it not make sense that year by year, DLC release will vary depending on many factors.

3. Point still stands, thats a pretty loose definition that leaves a lot to interpretation, and I would hardly call this culture and language, its computer speak for MMO, which I am admittedly not well versed on, regardless the point you made with it still does not hold up, as casuals is where the money is at, so unfortunately that is where they are going to direct their attention to. Try to appease everyone, but most importantly appease the biggest portion of your customer base.

4.You are also making assumptions, thats all we have as there are no facts, despite how badly you want me to believe they are. I said repeatedly I dont think ESO has long term plans, I just dont have a problem with them making money on something we can CHOOSE to partake in, if it adds some content to the game and extends it a bit more, great. In your example I would do exactly what ZOS is doing, its capitalism, make as much as you can while you can. While you think its unfair, its just the way it is, as stated before, a business does not cater to you, they cater to money. In their best interests they want to keep customers happy, but when that no longer makes much of a difference, time to make the most of it while the lights are still on. Harsh, but true.

1 - That is the main concern of the people who are against the crates. And it isn't absurd from a business standpoint when you do not plan to stick to that project much longer. It happens all the time in the MMO industry, and it is what we are worried about. We don't want this to happen here.

2 - Vvardenfell was datamined three months after the lady was hired, which means it had to be on production before she got in the team. The issue is that the information changed as time went by. If they had said outright that "We will have one update every quarter, can be a DLC or not, and not all DLCs will be of the same size" we wouldn't be arguing this. But the statement changed as time went by.

3 - If you wish to keep that ground. MMOs have a very specific lingo, and that's part of it. You could have just said outright that you are not familiar with it, that's fine, it isn't your obligation to know the expressions commonly used in MMOs, especially since you are new to them. But that's what it means. Also, casuals and MMO Hoppers are not the same thing. And it doesn't changes the fact that appeasing to MMO Hoppers on this way is bad for the healthy of the game in the long run, and, again, sucks for players who stick to the game.

4 - The problem is that you don't CHOOSE to partake on the damage caused by those things. People who buy the crates and people who do not will suffer the consequences of a sunk game all the same. I am making informed guesses more than assumptions, based on the pattern ZOS is following and the person hired to trace it in the ground for them. And I am not saying that doing that is unfair, I'm saying that it sucks for people who stick with the game. I'm glad you admit that you would do the same, because then you see how using the crates to sink the game in order to make as much money as you can before turning off the lights actually makes sense from a business standpoint and I can rest my case.

You must understand that we have people here who had been playing Elder Scrolls games for their entire lives. Would you be fine if someone took something you really loved for your whole life and ruined it completely in the name of "capitalism"? And then some people came to you completely disregarding it and telling you to keep quiet and just let it happen because "that's how it is"?
Maybe I'm getting old, maybe it is because I'm a lawyer, but I will speak up when someone takes something I love from me.

Being concerned about crown crates and its effect on the game does not equal crown crates destroy the game, so are you now backing off the fact that crown crates will destroy this game? Can you admit to the fact there are probably many factors which destroy this game, and at best crown crates add to it, at worst they make no difference and simply generate some extra revenue at end of life?

Does not matter when it was datamined, do you believe they just determined when they hired this person, that it was just done in a week? I would argue that decision was planned and made much longer than that, so its a moot point, the point is content has continued to roll out, that is what I see with my own eyes.

Not really interested in a discussion about terms, appears this is no longer relevent to the subject at hand, which is the belief that crown crates destroy a game.It also does not change the fact that game companies will cater to the money is, and that is in the casual market. Nor arguing it does not suck for someone like you, but life is not always fair either.

As has been stated, you have yet to provide a valid argument that crown crates cause significant damage. Does it effect some? Yes, are they in the majority? maybe, but thats also up in the air, most people that play the game probably are not even aware of these forums, forums attract the most passionate people about the game. Its another one of those things we can continue to go in circles on.

All I am pointing out as per my earlier post, is I have yet to see an argument as to why a company would deliberately choose to crater its game if these have the effect your stating. The logic of it does not make sense, and I think the real truth is much more complicated than what your making it out to be.

1 - Certainly not, but our concept of "destroying" seem to be different. Yours equal to "shutting the servers down" while ours is to "rapidly decline in quality, content stagnation, free to play" with server shut down being a consequence of the game being ruined. Crates are an essential part of the free-to-play conversion strategy that we already discussed - you know, the one you said you would follow too. And because they become the focus of development, they ruin games. So they are not "one of the many factors", they are the main factor, the one that causes the other factors like a big tower of cards coming down.

2 - I don't think you understood the statement at all. It being datamined in May means it was in production BEFORE SHE WAS HIRED, because three months after she was hired it was already in the game files. It does matter when it was datamined because it indicates when they started production, you see? ZOS has a big hang up with sunken costs. If Vvardenfell was already in production when the lady was hired, they wouldn't scrap it in favor of her strategy. That's not how they work. What would show that they do have long-term plans for the game would be if they initiated production of something despite her strategy. Which means, if they made something new and fantastic after she joined. So "Vvardenfell was datamined so content is still being produced at a reasonable pace, with a reasonable quality level" is absolutely invalid. It holds as much water than saying Orsinium was proof that the B2P transition had no impact on content production, while we know that Orsinium was in production before the B2P transition.

3 - I presented the arguments, you just decided not to accept them because you do not have any previous experience with this kind of strategy. Shift in development focus, content starts coming out slower (already happening), less things available to direct purchase (already happening as per this month's showcase), game's reputation dragged to the mud, Free-To-Play transition (more often than not, addition to things that are relevant to combat to the RNG boxes after this). That's what comes with the introduction of RNG boxes. That's what came with the RNG boxes every game that followed this path, the games where this lady worked on. You are yet to give me a reason why I should think ESO could be the one exception to the rule. And you are going back and forth with your statements. You said yourself it was something you would do if you were in ZOS place, you know it makes sense, and it is exactly what happens in the industry. Just give it a thought. If there was something that costs very little to produce but makes insane profit, would you invest on that or would you invest on something that takes much more work to make and doesn't sell for nearly as much? That's the Crates X Content issue.

You know, no one is born with experience. That is absolutely fine. But this really isn't going anywhere because you decided that, despite your lack of experience, you won't listen people who do have experience. You can continue in denial if you want, but please pay attention to the next months if you didn't pay attention to what happened to the pacing of content release this year already, so that on the next MMO you play you can identify the pattern like we did.

I will put it like this, Time will tell if crates are a godsend, destroyer of worlds or have no impact whatsoever.

Sigma957 wrote: »

I think they are going to make it consumables can be traded for crown gems, how many you get I don't know.

Doesn't matter, direct sales or nothing.

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

I think this gif accurately sums up my feelings on Crown Crates and the posts surrounding them:



They are cosmetic items and food that you can craft better, and XP scrolls we now have an equivalent to in-game. I am happy for others to spend money on them to help keep the lights on at ZOS though!

Pretty much sums up 2016 in a nutshell. We've seen what impact the "I don't care because it doesn't directly effect me" attitude can have in quite stark terms this year. In gaming, it leads to devs continuing to push the bar on what's acceptable vs what is blatant exploitation.

Just because I don't care, does not mean I support them either

Now, in an ideal world I would rather they weren't going in the game. But they are. No amount of endless circles will make ZOS change their decision.

Also if you're so terribly concerned about the state of the game;

https://jobs.zenimax.com/locations/view/7

They seem to be hiring a lot of people. Why not get in yourself? Work from inside? I would try if I lived in the USA.

Not caring IS supporting. I'm hoping people will realize that after everything that happened this year.

what?

if you are not for it your against it/ if your not against it you are for it?

rubbish.... that is just the kind of absolutist bs that i despise.

it is possible to be indifferent to things you know.

the truly indifferent don't bother with arguments.

apathy, indifference, oblviousness: all quite indistinguishable from approval from the company's perspective.

'all it takes for evil to prevail...' and all that.


eta: odds of winning? yes, they should be available with plain, straight odds, to all players interested in gambling on these crates.

you have a 1 in 20k chance of getting this ever-so-special-limited mount

you have a 1 in 10k chance of getting this xenomorphic-six-legged-snot-flinging pet...etc etc.