is INVESTMENT the answer?

Everyone as they sign into grouper can invest an amount of gold.

A group can have a minimum gold set.

At the end of the dungeon the group splits the gold using a shares system.

Every death loses a character a share. So, if the character cannot cut the mustard they lose their investment.
If they can and carry dying man thru, they get more back at the end than they put in.
if you get vote kicked, instead of 15m, you forfeit your share but its gone for the other team too.
If you leave, lose investment and it goes to team.


this makes using stupid grouper tricks costly.
it makes vote-kicking less problematic for the vote-kicker.
it lets potentially kickable players decide how badly they want to get in.

Or maybe gold buyout of 15m?

RebornV3x wrote: »

it would help if dungeons had recommended level so low cp plays knew what they were getting into but CP for the most part can play a big part I mean the gap between 330 to 561 isn't too bad but a the gap between a 100-159 and a 561 is pretty big gap but it takes 3 people to kick so it happens

It has nothing to do with this. When I was last playing my CP was 306 I think and I was getting kicked from Vet FG before I could even load. I had completed that dungeon on other characters at like VR2 way before they were even looking at removing Vet levels.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Finn

There's other reasons the "Vote to Kick" feature is being abused. When a player leaves a dungeon group (kicked, quits, times out) there's a 1-2 minute timer where the replacement person can't port in. Last night, I saw it first hand where people were getting kicked non-stop in a group I was in, and I was asking why we keep kicking people non-stop -- and they reported because people weren't porting into the dungeon. When I asked the people why they couldn't get into the dungeon they kept saying they were getting the error "instance is full".

This lead to 5 people getting kicked, and 5 people getting penalized by a 15 minute timer when all they did was try to use group finder to join a group. This seems like a penalty that could potentially hit a lot of players for something that's not their fault what-so-ever.

There needs to be a way to either remove kicked players faster from dungeons or find a way to notify the group of 4/4 slots are all used.

SnubbS wrote: »

Sounds like you need a safe space.

If you're not competent enough to complete the content without being carried through it -- you shouldn't get the completion. I've never actually done the vote to kick option though, a bit too nerdy for me. Same goes for reporting others -- just a bit too nerdy for me.

What are you talking about? Who said he needs to be carried through? He didn't even get a chance to join the group.

Shouldn't you be saying this to the people who kicked him? Aren't they the ones who lack competence as they must be just grinding CP and now need someone with max CP to carry them? Thus the kicking?

You even have another post defending your comments where you seem unable to understand the OP beyond your desire to attack. Get over yourself.

As a new player (came aboard with One Tamiel), I have played some form of MMO since the original Everquest (yes, I know, old). I was excited to see the idea of tank, healer, dos gone for grouping. Sad to see, that's not the case. Now I'm not sure how that could ever be implemented without gimping group content. But it is the source of this strife. Because everyone wants great tanking and great healing and great dps. Even if they aren't either. I suggest do what I plan. Just skip that content if its not fun.

I know playing World of Warcraft that it gets old. The random dungeon with random people that you probably won't bother seeing again except in another random dungeon. Get a good guild. Make friends. Play whatever way you wish and find people that accept that in you. And if its not fun, its the system we have and probably can't be changed without losing that fun.

Believe me, its crazy annoying to finally get a group together and then everyone votes out the healer because he's not up to someone's standards then you waste more time looking for another. And sometimes, people kick just because its a button that you think you have to agree. We used to lose tanks so fast because of the kick system. I prefer to just leave instead of keeping up with the group. I've only initiated a kick two or three times due to someone seemingly getting me killed on purpose. But then its someone's friend and its just you wanting to kick.

But you have to keep the timer because there are people who just join and leave causing you to waste time looking for a replacement. There's no way to measure someone's intention so no computer can account for who's intention should be punished so they just punish everyone. Its much better than no punishment because then you can have one person trolling multiple groups.

I know the conversation is a bit scattered but I thought I would give my opinion on the original post.

Nidro wrote: »

@ Tizerak

Hey if you are playing on PS4 EU we can meeet up and go trough some dungeons :-)
I have 6 DDs 1 healer and 1 Tank, so im flexible and can dom multiple runs/farm runs

At the Moment im just a Little busy with moving to a new flat.
Also that vMA double loot takes some time, but when this is over ill farm tons of pledge keys :-)

so msg me if you want.

Unfortunately I'm PC/NA but thanks for the offer though!

When I am running dungeons for pledges and so forth, most of the time, I go with friends, that said, occasionally I play during 'unsociable' hours and think to myself, well I am bored, why not go on group finder

When I join group finder, I already know/suspect that I will be joining a group of less experienced players, this is something I accept when I press that little 'join queue' button, and so if any vote were cast to kick ANYONE I would decline it, because if people want an easy ride, they should not be on group finder in the first place

There have been people leave on occasion in these groups, due to them complaining and sending me whispers about other group members, and me telling them that I will not kick anyone I personally don't mind taking the time to do dungeons with people who may be less experienced with the game and take longer, which is why I only join group finder at times when I have the time

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

Sounds like you need a safe space.

If you're not competent enough to complete the content without being carried through it -- you shouldn't get the completion. I've never actually done the vote to kick option though, a bit too nerdy for me. Same goes for reporting others -- just a bit too nerdy for me.

What are you talking about? Who said he needs to be carried through? He didn't even get a chance to join the group.

Shouldn't you be saying this to the people who kicked him? Aren't they the ones who lack competence as they must be just grinding CP and now need someone with max CP to carry them? Thus the kicking?

You even have another post defending your comments where you seem unable to understand the OP beyond your desire to attack. Get over yourself.

Honestly, I find your post to be *** -- it's a really poor read.

Firstly, I've clarified in other posts that I was presenting an argument as to why he may have been kicked right away. You say that you've read my other posts -- if that's the case and you still cannot understand the "Competent" comments, I legitimately feel bad for you.

The hypothetical "mean" people who've kicked him could have done so for any number of reasons. It's pointless to attack them saying they're looking to get carried because they (in their minds) weren't looking to carrying someone with 130cp. That's an absurd position to take, and you should feel like an absolute mental midget for taking it.

The majority of players who play this game are capable enough to complete the content they're queueing for -- but not adept enough to carry dead weight -- does that make them as horrible and useless as the 50cp kids? It's called being average. The kids with 300-400 cp will kick low levels more often than the 561s -- and that's down to the fact that they actually fear for their inability to complete the content -- as they should. Let's also not forget that the majority of under 150 cp players are virtually useless and it's down to lack experience with the game and not cp.

Paneross wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Don't use the group finder if you are going to kick people before giving them a chance.

I will continue to do so and kick anyone under 400cp.

This is such a stupid and narrow-minded thing to do because there are a lot of really great players out there under 400 CP.

Just some food for thought, but if you are constantly having to kick players all the time because they don't have over 400 CP to beat dungeons - then maybe they aren't the problem if you take my meaning.

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

Sounds like you need a safe space.

If you're not competent enough to complete the content without being carried through it -- you shouldn't get the completion. I've never actually done the vote to kick option though, a bit too nerdy for me. Same goes for reporting others -- just a bit too nerdy for me.

What are you talking about? Who said he needs to be carried through? He didn't even get a chance to join the group.

Shouldn't you be saying this to the people who kicked him? Aren't they the ones who lack competence as they must be just grinding CP and now need someone with max CP to carry them? Thus the kicking?

You even have another post defending your comments where you seem unable to understand the OP beyond your desire to attack. Get over yourself.

Exactly.

From the sound of it - it's the players who are doing the kicking in here that sound like they need to be carried to me.

Anyone who needs an entire party of 400+ CP to beat a vet dungeon needs to seriously re-think the way they play their character because that's ridiculous.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Today, I queued random vet and got a healer who wasn't even CP 160. They were CP 40.

Do you know why I kicked them?

Because if your pre CP 160, you have no buisness queueing vet. Hell, preferibly pre CP 300 you shouldn't.

CP level sometimes doesn't reflect how well a player plays... I had the regret to vote to kick many CP 561 whom for example were wearing heavy armor with a Greatsword and spaming wrecking blow as their only ability.... (Sometimes I wonder how some players reached CP561...). In contrast I would of preferred a CP200 that knows his rotation (even not perfectly), provides the appropriate damage/healing/tanking output and trying to improve his gameplay...

For most vet dungeons it doesn't matter what CP level you are, while other dungeons with a pug group is often a nightmare...

Jeremy wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

I will continue to do so and kick anyone under 400cp.

This is such a stupid and narrow-minded thing to do because there are a lot of really great players out there under 400 CP.

Agreed! I've seen players with the Flawless Conqueror title with less than 400 CP.