jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

I thought most things we pick up were trash anyway? Just decon it for the improvement mats and sell the mats in bulk no? I mean, I'm not at max level right now but just from visiting cities I can tell what pieces are actually worthwhile (worth holding on to and selling) and I don't have any of those. So selling mats in bulk by advertising in zone is my money maker. I kind of wish there was an AH but I certainly don't miss it or complain about it because I would rarely get a sale from one in games where it existed. There was always something better on sale and at a better price than what my casual butt could acquire --- except for mats. There is always a market for gathering mats, in every game with a halfway decent craft system.

Trade spam economies went out of style awhile ago (and for good reason). So if the developers of ESO are trying to bring that abomination back - I'm not going to support their efforts. In my opinion that system should stay dead and buried in the past where it belongs. Because the last thing I want to do when I sit down to play a game is stand around town advertising like some commercial while reading silly arguments about how much something is supposedly really worth. And don't even get me started on how annoying it was to constantly read people asking for price checks in guild chat due to the lack of a stable and centralized market since no one really knows what anything is worth.

At least you can buy stuff from guild traders now though. Used to you couldn't even do that unless you belonged to a trading guild. So things have gotten a little better at least.

i think you are confusing guild store and guild trader there. you always had to be in the guild to access the store.

Jeremy wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

i like the game the way it is. I don't want or need an auction house and i have been playing mmo since 2004. The lack of auction house is better imo, less chance rmt have to corner markets.

Play MUD most the ones i tried have no auction house.

False.

It is much easier to corrupt/rig/control a smaller market than it is a larger one.

In other words: if you believe a server-wide economy would be vulnerable to rmt - then these guild stores are 100x more vulnerable to them.

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Smashington357 wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Smashington357 wrote: »

I mean you can argue against auction house until the cows come home but the current system is flawed and a joke. Its a system of exclusion and inconvenience. There's no reason a person should have to travel all over an entire game world and spend hours to find and item they seek. That's backwards and puts a lot of people off. The trading player to player system is flawed too. All i see in chat is this guy scammed me that guy scammed me this person is a scammer. Why is it even possible to pull a scam? I won't trade player to player at all no matter what anyone says. I won't use a guild trader either no matter what anyone says. They are bad systems and I know because I've played with GOOD systems aka auction houses. You're not deterring gold sellers with this current system in the least hence all the posts about bots farming and gold sellers spamming chat. If you think you're deterring them you're delusional all this is doing is inconveniencing everyone.

I disagree, I think the system is far superior to all of the games I've played with an AH. Also I've never seen people shouting about getting ripped off in chat. Ever. At all. Since beta. Is this a console issue?

Yup Ps4 and its daily people shouting this ones a scammer that ones a scammer. Somehow they take the other persons items while withdrawing their own. And i seriously don't know how you can prefer this backwards travel all over the entire game world system to a central auction house. Why not at least have all the guild traders in one big bazaar? Why make it as inconvenient as possible then claim its better? It's not better no matter how many people claim it is. I'd love to poll players that left this game and see how many left over these reasons.

I like it better because I do. I like popping around to find deals sometimes. It's all subjective though. If I say it's better for me then it is. You stomping your feet and telling me I'm wrong won't change my mind, no matter how many tears you shed. I doubt very few people that left, did it because there was no AH. Everyone in my trade guilds, pve guild, and rp guilds likes this system better. Can I, based on this info, safely say that you are the one who is indeed in the wrong?

Would a centralized Zone Auction House harm your ability to pop around? Instead of travelling to 6 different Traders in one location all you had to do was go to 1. Youd know right away whether the item you were looking for was at that location and you could move on to another potential location. This quickens your search and allows you to get back to playing the game while allowing you to continue to play this tedious mini game of "Which Trader Has The Goods?".

Why would I pop around at all if there was one centralized spot? How would I find any good deals if everyone could see everything and it's price all on one screen at one AH location? How would I make any gold on supposedly rare items if every single player in the game was listing the same exact item in the same exact spot for all to see? Even when I'm searching traders I am playing the game, I do not feel rushed to get back to it. Besides, if the traders in the major hot spots don't have it, I move on. Takes maybe 10 minutes tops. If I really, really want that item, I might extend my search out a bit. No worries there either. Lastly, I can ask in zone. I can't recall the last time one of my "wtb" messages went unanswered in Mournhold. I like this system. It works for me and my Guildies. I never much cared for the AH in the thousands of other MMO's I played. Lucky for me I found an mmo that I enjoy that happens to have a an economic system that better suits me.

Re-read my comment. Youd still have to pop around to other zones for their Auction Houses.

I see what you're saying now, I think. So basically one open trader per zone? I could maybe see that. That's really not too far off from what we've got now. The major change of course being the guild requirements. Could work, idk. I just really am against the global AH system entirely.

Im a proponent of GAH but I know its not going to happen here. The Trade Guilds have a strangle hold on the system and many support it for whatever reasons. But I think a system that consolidates the Guild Traders and opens the door for more inclusion for players both sellers and buyers would help the game economy.

I believe those reason have been quite clearly stated in this thread by multiple people, and by many in the previous threads throughout this forums life. Inclusion is always a good thing in gaming, but total inclusion at the expense of a fair and engaging economic system like we have now, is not worth it to me. I would not be opposed to the system you suggested, with minor tweaks perhaps, but I will never support a global AH. I have not played an mmo in recent history with a GBH that I thought was even remotely a good system.

I wasnt questioning the reasons given. Just not in the mood to sit here and cover each one. As far as a fair and engaging economic system. Im going to hold back a laugh here because theres nothing fair about a system that requires you to join a Guild, bid on the opportunity to sell your wares and then cross your fingers you win. Any Guild thats been at it longer than their competition is going to be able to easily outbid them. The system is far from fair or engaging. Its the opposite. Its exclusive and demands players to participate in a tedious exercise that doesnt accomplish anything beyond exchanging goods for gold. Items are also listed at higher rates because not as many players are able to list their wares so things seem more rare than they actually are. The supply IS there its just not accessible in the current system.

I apologize. I was not aware that ZoS implemented a system in which the only way to sell goods was through a guild trader system. I did not realize that a players choice to voluntarily sit out and not participate in a trader guild, instead utilizing other viable avenues of trade in game was, the same as being forced to do something. I did not pick up on the fact that competing with bots and AH barons for elite and rare gear in a global system was far more engaging than the ins and outs of the many small markets we can utilize now. A refusal to participate, inability to understand, or unwillingness to put forth any more effort than list, click, sell, does not mean the system is faulty. It also does nothing to dissuade myself or others from effectively using it and enjoying it. Trust me, there's just as much eye rolling and laughter on this end, when someone claims a global AH is ever a good system for an mmorpg.

Alright smartass. Lets do this by the numbers then shall we? Since youre under the impression that players are just "sitting out" when their only option is to join a guild or to hock their wares to strangers in Text Chat. And you know what. Because Im a fair guy Im going to go with a small population size over all 6 servers and assume that all Guild Traders are taken and each Guild using them are full with active players. We're also going to assume that each player is only active in one Guild with a Guild Trader.

Matt Firor over the summer stated that there were 7 million unique accounts for ESO. Now we both know that 7 million accounts arent active right this moment. So lets go with a conservative 2 million players over all 6 servers. Bringing the total population per server to around 333,333 on each server. Such a low number SHOULD help you in your argument, yes?

Now we also know that theres something like 80 Guild Traders in the game. And we know that each guild can support 500 members per. So thats 40,000 active players selling wares in the Guild Traders on just one server. 240,000 players over 6 servers.

Thats 12% of the population on individual servers and 12% on all 6 total.

So on any given day or week in ESO, assuming everyone is active and all slots within these guilds are filled. A whopping 12% of the population may sell their wares to other players.

But we both know that many players are in multiple guilds that have traders and we know that multiple guilds hold multiple traders with their duplicate guilds. We also know that not every one of these guilds have filled every slot with active players. And we dont actually know the population size of all 6 servers.


But sure, the majority of players are just "sitting it out". It has nothing to do with limited space in guilds, limited guild traders and a system that benefits the few while excluding the many.

Not to throw a wrench in your math, but there are 171 Guild Traders per platform, and many trading guilds without a trader that week. The total number of trading guilds per platform has to be in the 300+ range imo.
Also, the "12%" selling wares is so off, as it doesn't include zone sales, sales in guilds with out kiosks, etc.

EDIT: After re-reading the above post, I noticed you said 6 platforms. There are only 4 platforms...PC/NA, PC/EU, X-Box & Ps4.
And calling someone a "Smartass" when your info is so wrong is sort of childish imo...

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Smashington357 wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Smashington357 wrote: »

I mean you can argue against auction house until the cows come home but the current system is flawed and a joke. Its a system of exclusion and inconvenience. There's no reason a person should have to travel all over an entire game world and spend hours to find and item they seek. That's backwards and puts a lot of people off. The trading player to player system is flawed too. All i see in chat is this guy scammed me that guy scammed me this person is a scammer. Why is it even possible to pull a scam? I won't trade player to player at all no matter what anyone says. I won't use a guild trader either no matter what anyone says. They are bad systems and I know because I've played with GOOD systems aka auction houses. You're not deterring gold sellers with this current system in the least hence all the posts about bots farming and gold sellers spamming chat. If you think you're deterring them you're delusional all this is doing is inconveniencing everyone.

I disagree, I think the system is far superior to all of the games I've played with an AH. Also I've never seen people shouting about getting ripped off in chat. Ever. At all. Since beta. Is this a console issue?

Yup Ps4 and its daily people shouting this ones a scammer that ones a scammer. Somehow they take the other persons items while withdrawing their own. And i seriously don't know how you can prefer this backwards travel all over the entire game world system to a central auction house. Why not at least have all the guild traders in one big bazaar? Why make it as inconvenient as possible then claim its better? It's not better no matter how many people claim it is. I'd love to poll players that left this game and see how many left over these reasons.

I like it better because I do. I like popping around to find deals sometimes. It's all subjective though. If I say it's better for me then it is. You stomping your feet and telling me I'm wrong won't change my mind, no matter how many tears you shed. I doubt very few people that left, did it because there was no AH. Everyone in my trade guilds, pve guild, and rp guilds likes this system better. Can I, based on this info, safely say that you are the one who is indeed in the wrong?

Would a centralized Zone Auction House harm your ability to pop around? Instead of travelling to 6 different Traders in one location all you had to do was go to 1. Youd know right away whether the item you were looking for was at that location and you could move on to another potential location. This quickens your search and allows you to get back to playing the game while allowing you to continue to play this tedious mini game of "Which Trader Has The Goods?".

Why would I pop around at all if there was one centralized spot? How would I find any good deals if everyone could see everything and it's price all on one screen at one AH location? How would I make any gold on supposedly rare items if every single player in the game was listing the same exact item in the same exact spot for all to see? Even when I'm searching traders I am playing the game, I do not feel rushed to get back to it. Besides, if the traders in the major hot spots don't have it, I move on. Takes maybe 10 minutes tops. If I really, really want that item, I might extend my search out a bit. No worries there either. Lastly, I can ask in zone. I can't recall the last time one of my "wtb" messages went unanswered in Mournhold. I like this system. It works for me and my Guildies. I never much cared for the AH in the thousands of other MMO's I played. Lucky for me I found an mmo that I enjoy that happens to have a an economic system that better suits me.

Re-read my comment. Youd still have to pop around to other zones for their Auction Houses.

I see what you're saying now, I think. So basically one open trader per zone? I could maybe see that. That's really not too far off from what we've got now. The major change of course being the guild requirements. Could work, idk. I just really am against the global AH system entirely.

Im a proponent of GAH but I know its not going to happen here. The Trade Guilds have a strangle hold on the system and many support it for whatever reasons. But I think a system that consolidates the Guild Traders and opens the door for more inclusion for players both sellers and buyers would help the game economy.

I believe those reason have been quite clearly stated in this thread by multiple people, and by many in the previous threads throughout this forums life. Inclusion is always a good thing in gaming, but total inclusion at the expense of a fair and engaging economic system like we have now, is not worth it to me. I would not be opposed to the system you suggested, with minor tweaks perhaps, but I will never support a global AH. I have not played an mmo in recent history with a GBH that I thought was even remotely a good system.

I wasnt questioning the reasons given. Just not in the mood to sit here and cover each one. As far as a fair and engaging economic system. Im going to hold back a laugh here because theres nothing fair about a system that requires you to join a Guild, bid on the opportunity to sell your wares and then cross your fingers you win. Any Guild thats been at it longer than their competition is going to be able to easily outbid them. The system is far from fair or engaging. Its the opposite. Its exclusive and demands players to participate in a tedious exercise that doesnt accomplish anything beyond exchanging goods for gold. Items are also listed at higher rates because not as many players are able to list their wares so things seem more rare than they actually are. The supply IS there its just not accessible in the current system.

I apologize. I was not aware that ZoS implemented a system in which the only way to sell goods was through a guild trader system. I did not realize that a players choice to voluntarily sit out and not participate in a trader guild, instead utilizing other viable avenues of trade in game was, the same as being forced to do something. I did not pick up on the fact that competing with bots and AH barons for elite and rare gear in a global system was far more engaging than the ins and outs of the many small markets we can utilize now. A refusal to participate, inability to understand, or unwillingness to put forth any more effort than list, click, sell, does not mean the system is faulty. It also does nothing to dissuade myself or others from effectively using it and enjoying it. Trust me, there's just as much eye rolling and laughter on this end, when someone claims a global AH is ever a good system for an mmorpg.

Alright smartass. Lets do this by the numbers then shall we? Since youre under the impression that players are just "sitting out" when their only option is to join a guild or to hock their wares to strangers in Text Chat. And you know what. Because Im a fair guy Im going to go with a small population size over all 6 servers and assume that all Guild Traders are taken and each Guild using them are full with active players. We're also going to assume that each player is only active in one Guild with a Guild Trader.

Matt Firor over the summer stated that there were 7 million unique accounts for ESO. Now we both know that 7 million accounts arent active right this moment. So lets go with a conservative 2 million players over all 6 servers. Bringing the total population per server to around 333,333 on each server. Such a low number SHOULD help you in your argument, yes?

Now we also know that theres something like 80 Guild Traders in the game. And we know that each guild can support 500 members per. So thats 40,000 active players selling wares in the Guild Traders on just one server. 240,000 players over 6 servers.

Thats 12% of the population on individual servers and 12% on all 6 total.

So on any given day or week in ESO, assuming everyone is active and all slots within these guilds are filled. A whopping 12% of the population may sell their wares to other players.

But we both know that many players are in multiple guilds that have traders and we know that multiple guilds hold multiple traders with their duplicate guilds. We also know that not every one of these guilds have filled every slot with active players. And we dont actually know the population size of all 6 servers.


But sure, the majority of players are just "sitting it out". It has nothing to do with limited space in guilds, limited guild traders and a system that benefits the few while excluding the many.

AlnilamE wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Smashington357 wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Smashington357 wrote: »

I mean you can argue against auction house until the cows come home but the current system is flawed and a joke. Its a system of exclusion and inconvenience. There's no reason a person should have to travel all over an entire game world and spend hours to find and item they seek. That's backwards and puts a lot of people off. The trading player to player system is flawed too. All i see in chat is this guy scammed me that guy scammed me this person is a scammer. Why is it even possible to pull a scam? I won't trade player to player at all no matter what anyone says. I won't use a guild trader either no matter what anyone says. They are bad systems and I know because I've played with GOOD systems aka auction houses. You're not deterring gold sellers with this current system in the least hence all the posts about bots farming and gold sellers spamming chat. If you think you're deterring them you're delusional all this is doing is inconveniencing everyone.

I disagree, I think the system is far superior to all of the games I've played with an AH. Also I've never seen people shouting about getting ripped off in chat. Ever. At all. Since beta. Is this a console issue?

Yup Ps4 and its daily people shouting this ones a scammer that ones a scammer. Somehow they take the other persons items while withdrawing their own. And i seriously don't know how you can prefer this backwards travel all over the entire game world system to a central auction house. Why not at least have all the guild traders in one big bazaar? Why make it as inconvenient as possible then claim its better? It's not better no matter how many people claim it is. I'd love to poll players that left this game and see how many left over these reasons.

I like it better because I do. I like popping around to find deals sometimes. It's all subjective though. If I say it's better for me then it is. You stomping your feet and telling me I'm wrong won't change my mind, no matter how many tears you shed. I doubt very few people that left, did it because there was no AH. Everyone in my trade guilds, pve guild, and rp guilds likes this system better. Can I, based on this info, safely say that you are the one who is indeed in the wrong?

Would a centralized Zone Auction House harm your ability to pop around? Instead of travelling to 6 different Traders in one location all you had to do was go to 1. Youd know right away whether the item you were looking for was at that location and you could move on to another potential location. This quickens your search and allows you to get back to playing the game while allowing you to continue to play this tedious mini game of "Which Trader Has The Goods?".

Why would I pop around at all if there was one centralized spot? How would I find any good deals if everyone could see everything and it's price all on one screen at one AH location? How would I make any gold on supposedly rare items if every single player in the game was listing the same exact item in the same exact spot for all to see? Even when I'm searching traders I am playing the game, I do not feel rushed to get back to it. Besides, if the traders in the major hot spots don't have it, I move on. Takes maybe 10 minutes tops. If I really, really want that item, I might extend my search out a bit. No worries there either. Lastly, I can ask in zone. I can't recall the last time one of my "wtb" messages went unanswered in Mournhold. I like this system. It works for me and my Guildies. I never much cared for the AH in the thousands of other MMO's I played. Lucky for me I found an mmo that I enjoy that happens to have a an economic system that better suits me.

Re-read my comment. Youd still have to pop around to other zones for their Auction Houses.

I see what you're saying now, I think. So basically one open trader per zone? I could maybe see that. That's really not too far off from what we've got now. The major change of course being the guild requirements. Could work, idk. I just really am against the global AH system entirely.

Im a proponent of GAH but I know its not going to happen here. The Trade Guilds have a strangle hold on the system and many support it for whatever reasons. But I think a system that consolidates the Guild Traders and opens the door for more inclusion for players both sellers and buyers would help the game economy.

I believe those reason have been quite clearly stated in this thread by multiple people, and by many in the previous threads throughout this forums life. Inclusion is always a good thing in gaming, but total inclusion at the expense of a fair and engaging economic system like we have now, is not worth it to me. I would not be opposed to the system you suggested, with minor tweaks perhaps, but I will never support a global AH. I have not played an mmo in recent history with a GBH that I thought was even remotely a good system.

I wasnt questioning the reasons given. Just not in the mood to sit here and cover each one. As far as a fair and engaging economic system. Im going to hold back a laugh here because theres nothing fair about a system that requires you to join a Guild, bid on the opportunity to sell your wares and then cross your fingers you win. Any Guild thats been at it longer than their competition is going to be able to easily outbid them. The system is far from fair or engaging. Its the opposite. Its exclusive and demands players to participate in a tedious exercise that doesnt accomplish anything beyond exchanging goods for gold. Items are also listed at higher rates because not as many players are able to list their wares so things seem more rare than they actually are. The supply IS there its just not accessible in the current system.

I apologize. I was not aware that ZoS implemented a system in which the only way to sell goods was through a guild trader system. I did not realize that a players choice to voluntarily sit out and not participate in a trader guild, instead utilizing other viable avenues of trade in game was, the same as being forced to do something. I did not pick up on the fact that competing with bots and AH barons for elite and rare gear in a global system was far more engaging than the ins and outs of the many small markets we can utilize now. A refusal to participate, inability to understand, or unwillingness to put forth any more effort than list, click, sell, does not mean the system is faulty. It also does nothing to dissuade myself or others from effectively using it and enjoying it. Trust me, there's just as much eye rolling and laughter on this end, when someone claims a global AH is ever a good system for an mmorpg.

Alright smartass. Lets do this by the numbers then shall we? Since youre under the impression that players are just "sitting out" when their only option is to join a guild or to hock their wares to strangers in Text Chat. And you know what. Because Im a fair guy Im going to go with a small population size over all 6 servers and assume that all Guild Traders are taken and each Guild using them are full with active players. We're also going to assume that each player is only active in one Guild with a Guild Trader.

Matt Firor over the summer stated that there were 7 million unique accounts for ESO. Now we both know that 7 million accounts arent active right this moment. So lets go with a conservative 2 million players over all 6 servers. Bringing the total population per server to around 333,333 on each server. Such a low number SHOULD help you in your argument, yes?

Now we also know that theres something like 80 Guild Traders in the game. And we know that each guild can support 500 members per. So thats 40,000 active players selling wares in the Guild Traders on just one server. 240,000 players over 6 servers.

Thats 12% of the population on individual servers and 12% on all 6 total.

So on any given day or week in ESO, assuming everyone is active and all slots within these guilds are filled. A whopping 12% of the population may sell their wares to other players.

But we both know that many players are in multiple guilds that have traders and we know that multiple guilds hold multiple traders with their duplicate guilds. We also know that not every one of these guilds have filled every slot with active players. And we dont actually know the population size of all 6 servers.


But sure, the majority of players are just "sitting it out". It has nothing to do with limited space in guilds, limited guild traders and a system that benefits the few while excluding the many.

As someone else pointed out, there are currently 171 guild traders in the game. And when HagbardOM was doing his roster of guilds each week for several months last year, I looked over the data and there was a turnaround of around 30% each week on the traders. Considering how some established guilds sometimes lose their traders, I would guess that the number is a bit higher at the moment as new guilds try to get a foothold in.

And while having a trader certainly boosts sales, don't underestimate the internal sales of a guild with no store. I am a member of a trading guild that's been pretty quiet for the last couple of months. I assume the GM got busy with RL stuff. There are about 250 members and we haven't had a trader in a few months, but I still list my 30 items at all times and I do have a fair amount of sales.

And don't forget that capturing a keep or resource in Cyrodiil exposes your guild store to your entire faction there as well (It's a great place to shop for bargains).

Artis wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

He has no reason to make up 7 million unique accounts. What an odd number to choose. Why not 10 million or 15? And I wasnt actually going off of what he said. Im really not sure why people are struggling with the math in that post as its OBVIOUS that 2 million was used. A fraction of what 7 million is. And its quite a fair number considering we have 2 Servers for each Platform. ESO Plus on PS4 has been one of the most bought Add-Ons for PS4 for close to 2 years now. For that to be a thing there has to be very large and very healthy population on ESO.

And you think that they would be able to employee 30 employees with a population of something like 180,000 players? This game would be dead with those numbers.

As for people complaining...I dont know how long youve been on these forums. But its been a constant topic of debate since the game launched in 2014. As for the make up of forum goers.....I dont know where you got the idea that only unsatisfied players come to the forums. But the vast majority of players that are unsatisfied quit without so much as a peep on these forums.

Yes he does have a reason. To make the game seem more popular than it is. There's absolutely no reason to believe him since he has a history of saying the opposite of reality. He might be right or wrong, it's irrelevant, because we don't know for sure.

Pallmor wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

The majority of eso players do just fine with the existing trade system (especially since zeni stopped sabotaging bids with the maintenance time). The majority of people who want an AH just because they're used to it from other games and don't want to adapt to a different structure.

I like most of the ways that ESO chooses to differentiate themselves from mmo generica - the guild stores instead of auction house, the lack of player inspection, the decision (so far) not to put advantage-giving weapons and gear in tbe cash shop.

L2Adapt

Did it ever occur to you that the reason that other MMO's have auction houses is that they work and players like them?