Stop Calling It Stamina

Beerbong_Ginn · November 2016

Sigtric wrote: »

UrQuan · November 2016

starkerealm wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

bellanca6561n wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Both magicka abilities and stamina abilities could be considered forms of magic, but drawing on a different source of power.

Magicka abilities draw on the power of Aetherius, and your magicka pool represents the strength of your personal connection to that source of power.

Stamina abilities draw on the power of your own physical endurance, and your stamina pool represents your own internal reserves of strength and endurance.

That actually makes some sense, you clever Star Control II villain, you!

I totally made it up, but it does kind of make sense doesn't it?

I always thought it was a subtle G'Quan reference.

EDIT: No wait, I was talking about your username... d'oh.

lol no, the username is a reference to the Star Control and Star Control 2: The Ur-Quan Masters games (we don't talk about Star Control 3: The Terrible Sequel With Almost None Of The Development Team Of The First Two Awesome Games). Not a reference to some silly Narn. I mean, I might make a reference to Valen or Lorien or something, but not to a Narn.

nordsavage · November 2016

FIrst off it is Maj-ik-uh not eek-kah. Second it is stamina not a type of magic. Physical actions require stamina. Sprinting, blocking and weapon abilities are not magic spells. Just because a few abilities have been retooled to accommodate stamina builds does not make it magic. These abilities are physical damage so they come from the physical action pool. You are thinking way too hard about a non-issue in a game where you can pull a five foot great sword from a skeever.

Remember coffee increases your stamina. It is not mag-eek as you like to say and its gonna wear off.

bellanca6561n · November 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

bellanca6561n wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Both magicka abilities and stamina abilities could be considered forms of magic, but drawing on a different source of power.

Magicka abilities draw on the power of Aetherius, and your magicka pool represents the strength of your personal connection to that source of power.

Stamina abilities draw on the power of your own physical endurance, and your stamina pool represents your own internal reserves of strength and endurance.

That actually makes some sense, you clever Star Control II villain, you!

I totally made it up, but it does kind of make sense doesn't it?

I always thought it was a subtle G'Quan reference.

EDIT: No wait, I was talking about your username... d'oh.

lol no, the username is a reference to the Star Control and Star Control 2: The Ur-Quan Masters games (we don't talk about Star Control 3: The Terrible Sequel With Almost None Of The Development Team Of The First Two Awesome Games). Not a reference to some silly Narn. I mean, I might make a reference to Valen or Lorien or something, but not to a Narn.

OFF TOPIC:

If any computer game can be called art, it's Star Control II.

Putting aside, for a moment, Brian Moriarty's famous GDC lecture, An Apology to Roger Ebert, this was a single player game like no other before or since....okay, okay, IMO.

The UrQuan were a most novel nemesis. You'd journey into their space. They'd threaten you, they'd threaten you, and...yeah, threaten you. And when you pulled up the visual on the comms they looked MIGHTY threatening. But they were...oh, hell, no spoilers for great games here.

When this forum opened....goodness knows when....I naturally seized upon poor @UrQuan due to his forum name.

I come and go. He....stays. Plus he enjoys - ENJOYS - making sense. It cheers me up to see him continuing his dauntless struggle and quest to continue to make sense.

My sub is up at the end of this month. I doubt I'll renew...but I'll be back. UrQuan will no doubt be there upon my return to attempt to apply reason and logic to my misshaped arguments

idk · November 2016

@bellanca6561n misses the one critical difference between stamina and magika.

Magika is used for one thing and one thing only. To cast skills that are unavailable unless skill points were spend to unlock them. Additionally, these skills must be slotted in order to use them.

Stamina is uniquely different from magika in that stamina is used to cast skills like with magika. However, stamina can also be used to block, roll dodge and break CC. All activities that fall into a different category.

Stamina will retain the same name as it is not stamicka.

UrQuan · November 2016

bellanca6561n wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

bellanca6561n wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Both magicka abilities and stamina abilities could be considered forms of magic, but drawing on a different source of power.

Magicka abilities draw on the power of Aetherius, and your magicka pool represents the strength of your personal connection to that source of power.

Stamina abilities draw on the power of your own physical endurance, and your stamina pool represents your own internal reserves of strength and endurance.

That actually makes some sense, you clever Star Control II villain, you!

I totally made it up, but it does kind of make sense doesn't it?

I always thought it was a subtle G'Quan reference.

EDIT: No wait, I was talking about your username... d'oh.

lol no, the username is a reference to the Star Control and Star Control 2: The Ur-Quan Masters games (we don't talk about Star Control 3: The Terrible Sequel With Almost None Of The Development Team Of The First Two Awesome Games). Not a reference to some silly Narn. I mean, I might make a reference to Valen or Lorien or something, but not to a Narn.

OFF TOPIC:

If any computer game can be called art, it's Star Control II.

Putting aside, for a moment, Brian Moriarty's famous GDC lecture, An Apology to Roger Ebert, this was a single player game like no other before or since....okay, okay, IMO.

The UrQuan were a most novel nemesis. You'd journey into their space. They'd threaten you, they'd threaten you, and...yeah, threaten you. And when you pulled up the visual on the comms they looked MIGHTY threatening. But they were...oh, hell, no spoilers for great games here.

When this forum opened....goodness knows when....I naturally seized upon poor @UrQuan due to his forum name.

I come and go. He....stays. Plus he enjoys - ENJOYS - making sense. It cheers me up to see him continuing his dauntless struggle and quest to continue to make sense.

My sub is up at the end of this month. I doubt I'll renew...but I'll be back. UrQuan will no doubt be there upon my return to attempt to apply reason and logic to my misshaped arguments

Well thanks for the vote of confidence

Star Con II was an awesome game, and to be honest I still play it every now and then. I love that it was a completely open universe game where you could go and do whatever the heck you wanted to do, exploring wherever you felt like exploring in the galaxy, but while you were doing that events would be transpiring... And if you took too long derping around doing your thing, various races (including potential allies) would be wiped out and eventually it would be just you against the unlimited forces that destroyed everything else in the galaxy.

And for the record, if you do leave and then return, whether I'm still here will depend largely on the implementation of crown crates. If ZOS changes them enough from the way they were introduced on PTS so that they're no longer predatory, then I'll still be here. If not, ZOS will never get any more of my money. I haven't yet decided if that means I'll stop playing entirely, but it probably will mean exactly that.

bellanca6561n · November 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@bellanca6561n misses the one critical difference between stamina and magika.

Magika is used for one thing and one thing only. To cast skills that are unavailable unless skill points were spend to unlock them. Additionally, these skills must be slotted in order to use them.

Stamina is uniquely different from magika in that stamina is used to cast skills like with magika. However, stamina can also be used to block, roll dodge and break CC. All activities that fall into a different category.

Stamina will retain the same name as it is not stamicka.

As if anyone expected the name to change in any official way

Folks just call it stam anyway.

But you have a point. There are three cases in which it is appropriate....balanced against many others which simply demonstrate that combat in this incarnation of the Elder Scrolls world has a logic all its own

bellanca6561n · November 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

Well thanks for the vote of confidence

Star Con II was an awesome game, and to be honest I still play it every now and then. I love that it was a completely open universe game where you could go and do whatever the heck you wanted to do, exploring wherever you felt like exploring in the galaxy, but while you were doing that events would be transpiring... And if you took too long derping around doing your thing, various races (including potential allies) would be wiped out and eventually it would be just you against the unlimited forces that destroyed everything else in the galaxy.

And for the record, if you do leave and then return, whether I'm still here will depend largely on the implementation of crown crates. If ZOS changes them enough from the way they were introduced on PTS so that they're no longer predatory, then I'll still be here. If not, ZOS will never get any more of my money. I haven't yet decided if that means I'll stop playing entirely, but it probably will mean exactly that.

Oops, we cross posted.

Yes, the crates are the thing wherein we'll catch the conscience of the king.

The bugs, horrid social design, the absence of any logical internal consistency to the combat system, the dismissal of hosts of support staff in multiple countries, no in-game GMs, no customer support contact number, the lack of developer feedback in the official forum, all of these things are disturbing.

None of them were deal breakers for me, though. I still found ways to enjoy it all. Even in Cyrodiil after the appearance of these strange players armed with tac nukes who pull out the brooms after wiping out entire groups by employing something that may be more than skill.

If you can't live with that then you'd better stop playing online games.

But the crates. No. I can forgive mistakes. In a long career I've met only three people with a genuine talent for balancing combat systems on their first attempt, and two of them worked for the Pentagon. And I understand many business necessities in the games industry.

But I have to believe that the leaders of the company I'm paying to play their game have a moral core.

Enodoc · November 2016

OP is technically correct, as others have mentioned already. Stamina should only be for blocking, dodging, sprinting, sneaking, and heavy attacks. There should be no abilities based on Stamina. But by that same token you would probably then come to the conclusion that there should be no weapon abilities at all.

ESO changed up the setup so that there suddenly was such a thing as abilities that aren't spells, which hasn't been the case before. As such, adaptations had to be made.

Elsonso · November 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

whether I'm still here will depend largely on the implementation of crown crates. If ZOS changes them enough from the way they were introduced on PTS so that they're no longer predatory, then I'll still be here. If not, ZOS will never get any more of my money. I haven't yet decided if that means I'll stop playing entirely, but it probably will mean exactly that.

That is the beauty of the hole that they (ZOS/Bethesda) have dug for themselves. We have paid our entry fee. We need not spend a single fraction of any real currency with them.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Magika is used for one thing and one thing only. To cast skills that are unavailable unless skill points were spend to unlock them. Additionally, these skills must be slotted in order to use them.

Stamina is uniquely different from magika in that stamina is used to cast skills like with magika. However, stamina can also be used to block, roll dodge and break CC. All activities that fall into a different category.

This is the inherent flaw with the way they are using Stamina in this game, and why the "balance" is simply them applying arbitrary buffs and punishments to one or the other.

Enodoc wrote: »

Stamina should only be for blocking, dodging, sprinting, sneaking, and heavy attacks. There should be no abilities based on Stamina. But by that same token you would probably then come to the conclusion that there should be no weapon abilities at all.

ESO changed up the setup so that there suddenly was such a thing as abilities that aren't spells, which hasn't been the case before. As such, adaptations had to be made.

Yeah, and there is no going back. The good news is that this will probably die with ESO and no future TES title will have need to follow in the combat footsteps of ESO.

Knootewoot · November 2016

Sigtric wrote: »

For heaven sake, stop posting images of a cave troll.

Enslaved · November 2016

bellanca6561n wrote: »

Actually, nobody does...folks call it stam. Not terribly polite really, as nobody asked its permission first.

To the point, albeit a dubious one.

There is green magic in this game and blue magic.

Blue stuff has the proper name: MAG-EEEK-KAAAAH!

The green stuff is deceiving. It has the name of something real.

There is no physical model for combat in this game. It's all magic. Physical models increase hitting power, in kilo joules, with strength, and hit frequency, with stamina or dexterity, expressed in swing speed.

ESO has a wonderful combat system in many ways but it's pure fantasy and should not be employing the names of real things.

They're just confusing people with the current name.

Call it stamicka.

Call it green power.

Call it Mountain Dew.

Then, patently LUDICROUS oxymorons such as stamina sorcerer would stop making me alternately roll my eyes or giggle.

Sorry.....got too much sleep last night, but drank the same too strong coffee....

Its stamina because you use it

to sprint
to roll dodge

And keep drinking Mountain Dew and soon enough you will not be able to walk lol

Enodoc · November 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

ESO changed up the setup so that there suddenly was such a thing as abilities that aren't spells, which hasn't been the case before. As such, adaptations had to be made.

Yeah, and there is no going back. The good news is that this will probably die with ESO and no future TES title will have need to follow in the combat footsteps of ESO.

I would certainly hope so (that this will die with ESO). Weapon abilities would add an unnecessary layer of complexity to single player TES, where the norm is simply "use weapon" or "use spell".

Dyride · November 2016

Vigor is stamina leaving the lower posterior.
My Troll King farts save lives.

Kodrac · November 2016

DoccEff wrote: »

Stam-sorc sounds better anyway.

Especially if it's an orc: stam-scorc-orc

RAGUNAnoOne · November 2016

What about Fatigue like every other ES game besides skyrim?

Enodoc · November 2016

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

What about Fatigue like every other ES game besides skyrim?

If Skyrim had kept the Fatigue name (since Stamina in Skyrim was essentially the same as Fatigue in Oblivion), and then ESO had introduced Stamina, I wonder if the feelings of animosity against Stamina would still exist...

Waffennacht · November 2016

What is this physical endurance you speak of? As you clearly stated in your OP stamina has an almost magicka quality but clearly is different. In this world of nirn we have stamina and magicka, have you not seen this for your own eyes?

/end RP

My point is, if we are going down this rabbit hole of "reality" and "physics" then the inhabitants of Nirn know nothing different. To them physical strength is stamina and have never experienced the world as we know it.

Relatively speaking the small differences between magicka and stamina are enough to constitute different words. The idea that the word stamina is used both on nirn and earth is purely coincidental.

Or, you know, it's just a word used in a video game

bellanca6561n · November 2016

Dyride wrote: »

Vigor is stamina leaving the lower posterior.
My Troll King farts save lives.

Yes, I believe someone noted, in response to my question about which of these two energy sources - the blue or the green - propelled Sorcerers great distances with a MIGHTY ZAP, that it was refried beans.

I considered this a marvelous answer! But added that the sound effect should change.

americansteel · November 2016

MAGICKA looks and sounds stupid

UrQuan · November 2016

Kodrac wrote: »

DoccEff wrote: »

Stam-sorc sounds better anyway.

Especially if it's an orc: stam-scorc-orc

I believe the preferred term is orc-stam-sorc. It has greater symmetry.

Enodoc wrote: »

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

What about Fatigue like every other ES game besides skyrim?

If Skyrim had kept the Fatigue name (since Stamina in Skyrim was essentially the same as Fatigue in Oblivion), and then ESO had introduced Stamina, I wonder if the feelings of animosity against Stamina would still exist...

Would the animosity towards stamina be staminosity?

I'm having way too much fun with silly fake words and terminology today...

Majic · November 2016

I call it "George" and flame people who don't call it "George".

DannyLV702 · November 2016

Stanima

quadraxis666 · November 2016

bellanca6561n wrote: »

Then, patently LUDICROUS oxymorons such as stamina sorcerer would stop making me alternately roll my eyes or giggle.

Stam Sorcs are legit. Gandalf was a Stam sorc, hardly any magic but he did plenty of running around and physical stuff. lol

daswahnsinn · November 2016

So, my DK would be a Strong Endurance DK that uses his knowledge of the old green magicka similar to the thu'um but just not as potent or amazing just enough to just be. Can walk hours around the mighty peaks of Skyrim in search of adventure and skyshards, surviving long battles at dolmens and can still walk back to Kynesgrove for mead all due to his strength and the power of the green. Though he does wield the powers of the blue but really only to buff the power of the green and to shield his limit red power.

Teridaxus · November 2016

When eso was new class skills, fighters guilds, the few alliance skills were all magicka while most weapon skill lines were less flashy too.

They just turned stamina into green magic.

bellanca6561n · November 2016

mzapkeneb18_ESO wrote: »

When eso was new class skills, fighters guilds, the few alliance skills were all magicka while most weapon skill lines were less flashy too.

They just turned stamina into green magic.

Precisely.

quadraxis666 wrote: »

bellanca6561n wrote: »

Then, patently LUDICROUS oxymorons such as stamina sorcerer would stop making me alternately roll my eyes or giggle.

Stam Sorcs are legit. Gandalf was a Stam sorc, hardly any magic but he did plenty of running around and physical stuff. lol

Was thinking about that. When he did that thing...you know....that thing fighting the magicka DK....

https://youtu.be/V4UfAL9f74I

I have to agree.....looked like stamina to me.
-

UrQuan · November 2016

bellanca6561n wrote: »

mzapkeneb18_ESO wrote: »

When eso was new class skills, fighters guilds, the few alliance skills were all magicka while most weapon skill lines were less flashy too.

They just turned stamina into green magic.

Precisely.

quadraxis666 wrote: »

bellanca6561n wrote: »

Then, patently LUDICROUS oxymorons such as stamina sorcerer would stop making me alternately roll my eyes or giggle.

Stam Sorcs are legit. Gandalf was a Stam sorc, hardly any magic but he did plenty of running around and physical stuff. lol

Was thinking about that. When he did that thing...you know....that thing fighting the magicka DK....

https://youtu.be/V4UfAL9f74I

I have to agree.....looked like stamina to me.
-

I'm pretty sure that's the Bridgebreaker of Smiting ultimate.