Stop Calling It Stamina

starkerealm

Abeille wrote: »

AH93 wrote: »

Mana

Oh no you didn't!

I think they may have just referenced Arena. Go get 'em.

Elsonso

AtAfternoon wrote: »

bellanca6561n wrote: »

Then, patently LUDICROUS oxymorons such as stamina sorcerer would stop making me alternately roll my eyes or giggle.

When you pick a pre-defined class in Oblivion, sorcerers are described as "besting the most well-equipped fighters, they rely on the spells of the mystic arts. Unique to these mages is the bodily stamina to be armed with the thickest armor".

So I personally don't find a stamina sorc, using magicka to buff themselves and streaking around while wearing heavy armour and hitting you with a sword, that strange.

Yes, and the "stamina" references physical defensive abilities, which is a good place for physical stamina to be. In today's stable of skills, the benefit offered by Bound Armor, and all morphs, should be Stamina. This is really the skill-line staple of a stamina sorcerer, who uses stamina as the main attribute for attacks and defenses, and uses magicka as a backup and secondary or utility resource.

By the way, Dark Exchange should always be based on the lower of the base stamina or magicka resource values. So, a stamina sorcerer, with more points into stamina, would expend magicka and get stamina. The magicka sorcerer, with more points into magicka, would expend stamina to get magicka. The morphs should change the fine details and expand on how it works, not change the resource.

No skill in this game should start with one resource and change to another resource via morph. It is confusing, counter-intuitive in an RPG game, and is simply bad design.

LinearParadox

bellanca6561n wrote: »

Actually, nobody does...folks call it stam. Not terribly polite really, as nobody asked its permission first.

To the point, albeit a dubious one.

There is green magic in this game and blue magic.

Blue stuff has the proper name: MAG-EEEK-KAAAAH!

The green stuff is deceiving. It has the name of something real.

There is no physical model for combat in this game. It's all magic. Physical models increase hitting power, in kilo joules, with strength, and hit frequency, with stamina or dexterity, expressed in swing speed.

ESO has a wonderful combat system in many ways but it's pure fantasy and should not be employing the names of real things.

They're just confusing people with the current name.

Call it stamicka.

Call it green power.

Call it Mountain Dew.

Then, patently LUDICROUS oxymorons such as stamina sorcerer would stop making me alternately roll my eyes or giggle.

Sorry.....got too much sleep last night, but drank the same too strong coffee....

starkerealm

lordrichter wrote: »

No skill in this game should start with one resource and change to another resource via morph. It is confusing, counter-intuitive in an RPG game, and is simply bad design.

Honestly, that's not the real problem. You're right about it being counter-intuitive, but the real problem is simply weapon damage scaling with max stamina, and spell damage scaling with max magicka. On paper, this makes a lot of sense, but in the actual game, it's unnecessarily obtuse. It also encourages players to avoid hybrids, and is the only reason making the summoning tree stamina focused would make sense. These are spells, they should be powered by magicka, but they benefit a stamina focused combatant far more.

Really, our resource pools should be, just that. They shouldn't scale our damage along with them.

Elsonso

starkerealm wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

No skill in this game should start with one resource and change to another resource via morph. It is confusing, counter-intuitive in an RPG game, and is simply bad design.

Honestly, that's not the real problem. You're right about it being counter-intuitive, but the real problem is simply weapon damage scaling with max stamina, and spell damage scaling with max magicka. On paper, this makes a lot of sense, but in the actual game, it's unnecessarily obtuse. It also encourages players to avoid hybrids, and is the only reason making the summoning tree stamina focused would make sense. These are spells, they should be powered by magicka, but they benefit a stamina focused combatant far more.

Really, our resource pools should be, just that. They shouldn't scale our damage along with them.

No, damage should be based more on the progression in the skill line, not in the amount of resource available. Yet another interesting game design idea that has not panned out. If your car has a bigger gas tank, you can drive further, your engine does not get more powerful.

ZOS seems to design by use of the concept of "path of least resistance". They have a problem, brainstorm a solution, and pick an easy short-term solution. This way of thinking shows up a lot in the game, and it is costing them millions in extra development expenses.

bellanca6561n

Cryptical wrote: »

BigBragg wrote: »

When you run out of things to knitpick in a game....

Nit.

Not knit.

This one made my day

UrQuan

Both magicka abilities and stamina abilities could be considered forms of magic, but drawing on a different source of power.

Magicka abilities draw on the power of Aetherius, and your magicka pool represents the strength of your personal connection to that source of power.

Stamina abilities draw on the power of your own physical endurance, and your stamina pool represents your own internal reserves of strength and endurance.

BigBragg

[snip]

AhPook_Is_Here

bellanca6561n wrote: »

Actually, nobody does...folks call it stam. Not terribly polite really, as nobody asked its permission first.

To the point, albeit a dubious one.

There is green magic in this game and blue magic.

Blue stuff has the proper name: MAG-EEEK-KAAAAH!

The green stuff is deceiving. It has the name of something real.

There is no physical model for combat in this game. It's all magic. Physical models increase hitting power, in kilo joules, with strength, and hit frequency, with stamina or dexterity, expressed in swing speed.

ESO has a wonderful combat system in many ways but it's pure fantasy and should not be employing the names of real things.

They're just confusing people with the current name.

Call it stamicka.

Call it green power.

Call it Mountain Dew.

Then, patently LUDICROUS oxymorons such as stamina sorcerer would stop making me alternately roll my eyes or giggle.

Sorry.....got too much sleep last night, but drank the same too strong coffee....

Cute but your sword has no mass. There are no real dimensions in tamreal, just imagined ones, so your weapon as no velocity. Therefore your weapon has no kinetic energy and can't express in joules. In tamreal there is no reality so stamina means nothing more here than 1/2m.v^2

I would like it if they called it Tumpina, because stamina trumps magicka (no political reference mods, trump as in a hand of cards).

BRogueNZ

green magic indeed. smoke less of it perhaps

Kartalin

DoccEff wrote: »

bellanca6561n wrote: »

Then, patently LUDICROUS oxymorons such as stamina sorcerer would stop making me alternately roll my eyes or giggle.

Stam-sorc sounds better anyway.

Storc, especially for orcs :P

Saucy_Jack

A wizard did it.

Wait. A stamina sorcerer did it.

Runs

They could call it Physical Magic and give it it's own resource bar. Leave Stamina/Fatigue for running, blocking, dodging and bashing.

Cazic

starkerealm wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

No skill in this game should start with one resource and change to another resource via morph. It is confusing, counter-intuitive in an RPG game, and is simply bad design.

Honestly, that's not the real problem. You're right about it being counter-intuitive, but the real problem is simply weapon damage scaling with max stamina, and spell damage scaling with max magicka. On paper, this makes a lot of sense, but in the actual game, it's unnecessarily obtuse. It also encourages players to avoid hybrids, and is the only reason making the summoning tree stamina focused would make sense. These are spells, they should be powered by magicka, but they benefit a stamina focused combatant far more.

Really, our resource pools should be, just that. They shouldn't scale our damage along with them.

Fully agree with this. Kind of sucks feeling like we always need to min/max magicka or stamina to have a good build. Everything's about damage and if you try a hybrid you're basically gimping yourself.

bellanca6561n

UrQuan wrote: »

Both magicka abilities and stamina abilities could be considered forms of magic, but drawing on a different source of power.

Magicka abilities draw on the power of Aetherius, and your magicka pool represents the strength of your personal connection to that source of power.

Stamina abilities draw on the power of your own physical endurance, and your stamina pool represents your own internal reserves of strength and endurance.

That actually makes some sense, you clever Star Control II villain, you!

To be serious for just a moment, the games I originally loved were simulations. And, even in this game, if I create a character who relies on physical strength, I need to choose a race that supports the physical expression of physical strength.

And I'd prefer it if you didn't select muscles at all. They should develop on your character as your character develops based on the weapons they use and their style of play. You don't select physical capability, you build it.

But "should" is not a terribly useful word in this context.

The ethos here was best summarized by Cadwell. "Ah, magic, the solution to all of our problems. I love magic. It's so....magical!"

binho

This is probably the most useless post I've seen today!
Congratulations

WillhelmBlack

Stemina Stemplar

bellanca6561n

binho wrote: »

This is probably the most useless post I've seen today!
Congratulations

Thank you!

Silver_Strider

Nerf Mountain Dew doesn't have the same tone as Stamina

UrQuan

bellanca6561n wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Both magicka abilities and stamina abilities could be considered forms of magic, but drawing on a different source of power.

Magicka abilities draw on the power of Aetherius, and your magicka pool represents the strength of your personal connection to that source of power.

Stamina abilities draw on the power of your own physical endurance, and your stamina pool represents your own internal reserves of strength and endurance.

That actually makes some sense, you clever Star Control II villain, you!

I totally made it up, but it does kind of make sense doesn't it?

Sasyk

Stamina sorc, AKA Battlemage. Hell even the npc battlemages in this game are sorcerers weilding 2h weapons, dropping negates. I dig it.

Rastoide

I like this post.

bellanca6561n

UrQuan wrote: »

bellanca6561n wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Both magicka abilities and stamina abilities could be considered forms of magic, but drawing on a different source of power.

Magicka abilities draw on the power of Aetherius, and your magicka pool represents the strength of your personal connection to that source of power.

Stamina abilities draw on the power of your own physical endurance, and your stamina pool represents your own internal reserves of strength and endurance.

That actually makes some sense, you clever Star Control II villain, you!

I totally made it up, but it does kind of make sense doesn't it?

Heck ya! And more sense than....

1. Blade and bow weapon attributes being applied to magic abilities....why? It's all magic I tell ya! This means...

2. Magic fighters wearing daggers, swords, even shields employing no weapon abilities whatsoever.

3. Blocking a magic attack with a wooden shield. Blocking a charging monster by holding up two little daggers.

4. Flaming Oil that only burns your foes. Is the flame not hot?

5. Same with arrow spray and all manner of other area attacks. It's like magic the way they only hit the bad things.

And these are just a handful of head scratching digital realities that bewilder me to no end. And people accept them! No, really.

Thus, @UrQuan, your explanation seemed like pure science by comparison!

TheAngelofDeath99

Don't bring political correctness to ESO. I'll call it whatever the [snip] I want!

bellanca6561n

TheAngelofDeath99 wrote: »

Don't bring political correctness to ESO. I'll call it whatever the [snip] I want!

So....it's settled. Stamicka!

Bandit1215

it's a sorcerer that uses stamina.... what's the point of this thread again?

starkerealm

UrQuan wrote: »

bellanca6561n wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Both magicka abilities and stamina abilities could be considered forms of magic, but drawing on a different source of power.

Magicka abilities draw on the power of Aetherius, and your magicka pool represents the strength of your personal connection to that source of power.

Stamina abilities draw on the power of your own physical endurance, and your stamina pool represents your own internal reserves of strength and endurance.

That actually makes some sense, you clever Star Control II villain, you!

I totally made it up, but it does kind of make sense doesn't it?

I always thought it was a subtle G'Quan reference.

EDIT: No wait, I was talking about your username... d'oh.

Eiagra

FoolishHuman wrote: »

Pendrillion wrote: »

Its called stamina because Elder Scrolls had always called it stamina.

Actually, only Skyrim called it Stamina, in all other games it was Fatigue.

Aw, someone beat me to it.

I remember when it was called Fatigue. Hmm, puts me in the mood for Daggerfall... but there are no playable orcs in Daggerfall... a conundrum...

Valethar

bellanca6561n wrote: »

it's pure fantasy and should not be employing the names of real things.

So, we don't really use swords to kill enemies? We're not really riding a horse when we're racing to that Dolmen?

Wait.. Does that mean we're not really wearing pants when we're running around doing everything we're doing???

Sigtric