Animation cancelling, cheating or get gud mechanic?

Cryptical · November 2016

The_Outsider wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

If you hate animation canceling, you're doing so out of some internal personal vendetta.

If they removed animation canceling from the game, they'd need to change how ultimate is built and the purpose of light or heavy attacking with a weapon, along with the speed of animations to help keep the game feeling fluid. Because it would feel very extremely sluggish without the ability to weave.

If you couldn't animation cancel, light attacks would be pointless to even bother doing. You'd just be button mashing your skill over and over, light attacks in the current system at least serve to break pure spam and perform functions (build ultimate, apply enchants, add some damage, etc).

Animation canceling is a fair part of the game, at least until the devs decide they want to reinvent the combat system again. If you think animation canceling somehow makes macro'ing possible or any worse than without, you've clearly never played any game ever. Macro's are a thing in any game, regardless of if AC is possible or not.

OMG, a rational comment... pleasant relief from the mindless "I don't like animation cancelling, macros, take it out of the game, it's cheating, I can't do it, it's hard, macros, make it go away, I don't understand, macros, scripting, hax, macros..."

What? Are you smoking something?

The first paragraph is a derisive blanket dismissal of those with differing views, as if those with a different opinion are being ruled by emotion.

The second paragraph... cannot keep straight that canceling is different than weaving, ignores that the ultimate you build is the same whether you go fast or slow.

The third paragraph forgets that people will still want to proc sets with light attacks, proc abilities with strings of light attacks, proc enchants and poisons with light attacks, and use heavy attacks to regen resources. That's a lot to forget.

The fourth paragraph is another derisive blanket dismissal of those with differing views.

The only worthwhile nugget in the whole narrow-minded privileged perspective of that comment was regarding the speed of animations, although even that nugget needed to be extracted from the mistaken idea that canceling is the same as weaving.

And you found that rational?

nimander99 · November 2016

Other (please explain)

Its get gud and exploit. You should of had that option OP.

SanTii.92 · November 2016

Get good mechanic

Hey guys, I think we all should give netherRealms, Konami, Namco or any other fight's game producer a call and tell them that they should just stop because players can animation cancel and do cool combos and that's cheating and not fair for the rest of their player base. lul

OdinForge · November 2016

Get good mechanic

Cryptical wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

If you hate animation canceling, you're doing so out of some internal personal vendetta.

If they removed animation canceling from the game, they'd need to change how ultimate is built and the purpose of light or heavy attacking with a weapon, along with the speed of animations to help keep the game feeling fluid. Because it would feel very extremely sluggish without the ability to weave.

If you couldn't animation cancel, light attacks would be pointless to even bother doing. You'd just be button mashing your skill over and over, light attacks in the current system at least serve to break pure spam and perform functions (build ultimate, apply enchants, add some damage, etc).

Animation canceling is a fair part of the game, at least until the devs decide they want to reinvent the combat system again. If you think animation canceling somehow makes macro'ing possible or any worse than without, you've clearly never played any game ever. Macro's are a thing in any game, regardless of if AC is possible or not.

OMG, a rational comment... pleasant relief from the mindless "I don't like animation cancelling, macros, take it out of the game, it's cheating, I can't do it, it's hard, macros, make it go away, I don't understand, macros, scripting, hax, macros..."

What? Are you smoking something?

The first paragraph is a derisive blanket dismissal of those with differing views, as if those with a different opinion are being ruled by emotion.

The second paragraph... cannot keep straight that canceling is different than weaving, ignores that the ultimate you build is the same whether you go fast or slow.

The third paragraph forgets that people will still want to proc sets with light attacks, proc abilities with strings of light attacks, proc enchants and poisons with light attacks, and use heavy attacks to regen resources. That's a lot to forget.

The fourth paragraph is another derisive blanket dismissal of those with differing views.

The only worthwhile nugget in the whole narrow-minded privileged perspective of that comment was regarding the speed of animations, although even that nugget needed to be extracted from the mistaken idea that canceling is the same as weaving.

And you found that rational?

Weaving is a form of animation canceling, you're breaking tail animation to cast a light attack, as opposed to finishing the animation of your skill entirely and then performing a light attack. One of the key methods for a DPS to build ultimate is by light attacking, and if you want to be as fluid as possible you must weave.

Why would anyone in their right mind break a skill DPS rotation to light attack something for a proc set? Who uses proc sets for DPS parsing? Proc sets have different methods of procing anyway, some proc of DoTs and some proc of general damage. It's totally irrelevant to the conversation of animation canceling however.

Yes indeed you can build resources with heavy attacks, but we're talking about animation canceling so that is irrelevant. Some builds still use heavy attack weaving for damage. ASIDE from building resources who would actually waste an animation on a heavy attack currently, instead of just doing another dizzying swing without the ability to weave.

And yes it is a dismissal to people like you, even the Developers agree with this.

SanTii.92 · November 2016

Get good mechanic

OdinForge wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

If you hate animation canceling, you're doing so out of some internal personal vendetta.

If they removed animation canceling from the game, they'd need to change how ultimate is built and the purpose of light or heavy attacking with a weapon, along with the speed of animations to help keep the game feeling fluid. Because it would feel very extremely sluggish without the ability to weave.

If you couldn't animation cancel, light attacks would be pointless to even bother doing. You'd just be button mashing your skill over and over, light attacks in the current system at least serve to break pure spam and perform functions (build ultimate, apply enchants, add some damage, etc).

Animation canceling is a fair part of the game, at least until the devs decide they want to reinvent the combat system again. If you think animation canceling somehow makes macro'ing possible or any worse than without, you've clearly never played any game ever. Macro's are a thing in any game, regardless of if AC is possible or not.

OMG, a rational comment... pleasant relief from the mindless "I don't like animation cancelling, macros, take it out of the game, it's cheating, I can't do it, it's hard, macros, make it go away, I don't understand, macros, scripting, hax, macros..."

What? Are you smoking something?

The first paragraph is a derisive blanket dismissal of those with differing views, as if those with a different opinion are being ruled by emotion.

The second paragraph... cannot keep straight that canceling is different than weaving, ignores that the ultimate you build is the same whether you go fast or slow.

The third paragraph forgets that people will still want to proc sets with light attacks, proc abilities with strings of light attacks, proc enchants and poisons with light attacks, and use heavy attacks to regen resources. That's a lot to forget.

The fourth paragraph is another derisive blanket dismissal of those with differing views.

The only worthwhile nugget in the whole narrow-minded privileged perspective of that comment was regarding the speed of animations, although even that nugget needed to be extracted from the mistaken idea that canceling is the same as weaving.

And you found that rational?

Weaving is a form of animation canceling, you're breaking tail animation to cast a light attack, as opposed to finishing the animation of your skill entirely and then performing a light attack. One of the key methods for a DPS to build ultimate is by light attacking, and if you want to be as fluid as possible you must weave.

You actually break light attack animation with a skill tho, making the whole 'visibility' argument moot, but ok.

OdinForge · November 2016

Get good mechanic

SanTii.92 wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

If you hate animation canceling, you're doing so out of some internal personal vendetta.

If they removed animation canceling from the game, they'd need to change how ultimate is built and the purpose of light or heavy attacking with a weapon, along with the speed of animations to help keep the game feeling fluid. Because it would feel very extremely sluggish without the ability to weave.

If you couldn't animation cancel, light attacks would be pointless to even bother doing. You'd just be button mashing your skill over and over, light attacks in the current system at least serve to break pure spam and perform functions (build ultimate, apply enchants, add some damage, etc).

Animation canceling is a fair part of the game, at least until the devs decide they want to reinvent the combat system again. If you think animation canceling somehow makes macro'ing possible or any worse than without, you've clearly never played any game ever. Macro's are a thing in any game, regardless of if AC is possible or not.

OMG, a rational comment... pleasant relief from the mindless "I don't like animation cancelling, macros, take it out of the game, it's cheating, I can't do it, it's hard, macros, make it go away, I don't understand, macros, scripting, hax, macros..."

What? Are you smoking something?

The first paragraph is a derisive blanket dismissal of those with differing views, as if those with a different opinion are being ruled by emotion.

The second paragraph... cannot keep straight that canceling is different than weaving, ignores that the ultimate you build is the same whether you go fast or slow.

The third paragraph forgets that people will still want to proc sets with light attacks, proc abilities with strings of light attacks, proc enchants and poisons with light attacks, and use heavy attacks to regen resources. That's a lot to forget.

The fourth paragraph is another derisive blanket dismissal of those with differing views.

The only worthwhile nugget in the whole narrow-minded privileged perspective of that comment was regarding the speed of animations, although even that nugget needed to be extracted from the mistaken idea that canceling is the same as weaving.

And you found that rational?

Weaving is a form of animation canceling, you're breaking tail animation to cast a light attack, as opposed to finishing the animation of your skill entirely and then performing a light attack. One of the key methods for a DPS to build ultimate is by light attacking, and if you want to be as fluid as possible you must weave.

You actually break light attack animation with a skill tho, making the whole 'visibility' argument moot, but ok.

Yes fair enough, I suppose you're right, I mixed that up. It is however animation canceling nonetheless, if you had to watch the full light or heavy attack animation play out, it wouldn't be fluid and would feel very sluggish.

Removing animation canceling would be fine, if they redesigned the purpose of basic attacking and / or overhauled animation speed greatly. But how it currently works is perfectly fine, the myth that it's cheating is silly.

Danksta · November 2016

Get good mechanic

Awakatanka wrote: »

Why there are casting Times on skills if everyone is cancelling. Just remove casting Times then And everyone is on the same skills again. If you cancelling something then it stops. It will not executie the skills.... That is why it is called cancelling

I don't think you get how AC works. If you cancel a skill with a cast time like Radiant Oppression, the damage stops. Same with Jabs/Sweeps, rapid strikes and all channeled abilities that I can think of... but maybe I'm missing something.

SanTii.92 · November 2016

Get good mechanic

Danksta wrote: »

Awakatanka wrote: »

Why there are casting Times on skills if everyone is cancelling. Just remove casting Times then And everyone is on the same skills again. If you cancelling something then it stops. It will not executie the skills.... That is why it is called cancelling

I don't think you get how AC works. If you cancel a skill with a cast time like Radiant Oppression, the damage stops. Same with Jabs/Sweeps, rapid strikes and all channeled abilities that I can think of... but maybe I'm missing something.

No, you are not. If you cancel cast times dmge just stops. Guy just had no idea what he was talking about.

idk · November 2016

Get good mechanic

nimander99 wrote: »

Its get gud and exploit. You should of had that option OP.

@nimander99 but one cannot appropriately call it an exploit when it's not. Devs have said it's not an exploit when they gave it their blessing.

SanTii.92 · November 2016

Get good mechanic

I can only adjudicate the resurgence of posts about this same topic time and time again every month or so to the influx of new players who are just learning the game. There is no conceivable reason why you won't Ac if you know how, and it's not exactly rocket science..

EldritchPenguin · November 2016

Get good mechanic

A game needs some form of animation canceling or another. Otherwise the controls just feel unresponsive and sluggish. I put up with that for years with melee attacks in Warframe, and let me say, it is seriously annoying to be stuck in an animation with rockets flying at your head.

Danksta · November 2016

Get good mechanic

SanTii.92 wrote: »

I can only adjudicate the resurgence of posts about this same topic time and time again every month or so to the influx of new players who are just learning the game. There is no conceivable reason why you won't Ac if you know how, and it's not exactly rocket science..

Even if you don't know how, go to YouTube. Alcast has an awesome video explaining animation canceling and animation priorities.

xeroflare357 · November 2016

Cheat/exploit

i honestly dont like it and that goes for macros but time will tell if the game can survive ,as WoW dont have it as is still goin strong ,so time will tell

Bossdonut · November 2016

Cheat/exploit

Considering you can macro it, it's a cheat and only used by scrubs. True champions heavy attack their inferiors to death.

Nerouyn · November 2016

Other (please explain)

It's mind-bogglingly stupid is what it is.

I won't do it. I mean probably I do it accidentally sometimes but it's about as *** as game design gets in my books.

Since I won't do it that takes PvP and 'competitive' PvE off the table.

EldritchPenguin · November 2016

Get good mechanic

Bossdonut wrote: »

Considering you can macro it, it's a cheat and only used by scrubs. True champions heavy attack their inferiors to death.

But you can macro regular ability rotations without attack weaves. That doesn't make regular ability rotations a cheat. The macro itself is the cheat.

rager82b14_ESO · November 2016

Cheat/exploit

It is a cheat. All other mmos have been fixing it. Heck even DCUO has been working on fixing it.

The simple truth is. It is bad game design.

Nerouyn · November 2016

Other (please explain)

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

It is a cheat. All other mmos have been fixing it. Heck even DCUO has been working on fixing it.

Really? That's interesting. It was always one of the things I hated most about that game.

Perhaps Sony offloading them has been for the game.

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

The simple truth is. It is bad game design.

Indeed.

Bossdonut · November 2016

Cheat/exploit

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

Bossdonut wrote: »

Considering you can macro it, it's a cheat and only used by scrubs. True champions heavy attack their inferiors to death.

But you can macro regular ability rotations without attack weaves. That doesn't make regular ability rotations a cheat. The macro itself is the cheat.

Spoken like a true cheater.

I'm very invested in my opinion (which are always the facts, since i am never wrong) and am very serious almost exclusively.

smokey13a · November 2016

Other (please explain)

Dymence wrote: »

2 kinds of people in this debate

1. The people who understand game mechanics
2. The people who don't understand game mechanics

Group 1 either doesn't care about animation cancelling, or sees it as a good thing.

Group 2 thinks it is a cheat that somehow bypasses global cooldowns of skills and makes you a dps god.

To group 2: Learn more about the game before you cry out in rage about *** you clearly dont comprehend. Especially @Axorn

2 kinds of people, you sure about that?, I posted so am in this debate, I do understand game mechanics and still think anim cancelling should be removed so I don't fit into either of the only 2 types of people (according to you) in this debate.

oh and I'm also a hobbyist game developer so I probably have better comprehension of game mechanics then 99.99% of the people playing, why am I telling you this, simply because you should consider all possibility's before making arrogant assumptions(that being there is only 2 types of people in the debate).

also just because someone has a different opinion to you doesn't mean you should insult them by implying the only reason they have such an opinion is because they aren't smart enough to comprehend what you believe/your point of view.

not saying they are right or your right, just pointing out that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and you should be mature enough to refrain from childish insults.

Strider_Roshin · November 2016

Get good mechanic

Without animation canceling, combat would be quite dull. Can you imagine spamming one over and over like a templar or something? I'd fall asleep with controller in hand.

nimander99 · November 2016

Other (please explain)

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Its get gud and exploit. You should of had that option OP.

@nimander99 but one cannot appropriately call it an exploit when it's not. Devs have said it's not an exploit when they gave it their blessing.

I know, I was being sarcasmicisticlyironical

Cryptical · November 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

If you hate animation canceling, you're doing so out of some internal personal vendetta.

If they removed animation canceling from the game, they'd need to change how ultimate is built and the purpose of light or heavy attacking with a weapon, along with the speed of animations to help keep the game feeling fluid. Because it would feel very extremely sluggish without the ability to weave.

If you couldn't animation cancel, light attacks would be pointless to even bother doing. You'd just be button mashing your skill over and over, light attacks in the current system at least serve to break pure spam and perform functions (build ultimate, apply enchants, add some damage, etc).

Animation canceling is a fair part of the game, at least until the devs decide they want to reinvent the combat system again. If you think animation canceling somehow makes macro'ing possible or any worse than without, you've clearly never played any game ever. Macro's are a thing in any game, regardless of if AC is possible or not.

OMG, a rational comment... pleasant relief from the mindless "I don't like animation cancelling, macros, take it out of the game, it's cheating, I can't do it, it's hard, macros, make it go away, I don't understand, macros, scripting, hax, macros..."

What? Are you smoking something?

The first paragraph is a derisive blanket dismissal of those with differing views, as if those with a different opinion are being ruled by emotion.

The second paragraph... cannot keep straight that canceling is different than weaving, ignores that the ultimate you build is the same whether you go fast or slow.

The third paragraph forgets that people will still want to proc sets with light attacks, proc abilities with strings of light attacks, proc enchants and poisons with light attacks, and use heavy attacks to regen resources. That's a lot to forget.

The fourth paragraph is another derisive blanket dismissal of those with differing views.

The only worthwhile nugget in the whole narrow-minded privileged perspective of that comment was regarding the speed of animations, although even that nugget needed to be extracted from the mistaken idea that canceling is the same as weaving.

And you found that rational?

Weaving is a form of animation canceling, you're breaking tail animation to cast a light attack, as opposed to finishing the animation of your skill entirely and then performing a light attack. One of the key methods for a DPS to build ultimate is by light attacking, and if you want to be as fluid as possible you must weave.

Why would anyone in their right mind break a skill DPS rotation to light attack something for a proc set? Who uses proc sets for DPS parsing? Proc sets have different methods of procing anyway, some proc of DoTs and some proc of general damage. It's totally irrelevant to the conversation of animation canceling however.

Yes indeed you can build resources with heavy attacks, but we're talking about animation canceling so that is irrelevant. Some builds still use heavy attack weaving for damage. ASIDE from building resources who would actually waste an animation on a heavy attack currently, instead of just doing another dizzying swing without the ability to weave.

And yes it is a dismissal to people like you, even the Developers agree with this.

Weaving is having a pattern and inserting something else into that pattern.

Templar using the jabs/sweeps, weaves a light attack in between to proc a weapon damage glyph or an equipped poison.

For a more painstakingly explicit example, a pattern of a gap closer stun followed by 4 or 5 sets of sweeps, then a roll dodge away, back to start. Weave a light attack into the pattern after the gap closer, so the proc lands during the cc moment. That is weaving, and it has nothing to do with canceling.

You can weave just fine without canceling a darn thing. Weaving serves a purpose that is different than canceling.

Why want a weapon to proc? Do you seriously lack that knowledge? Are you really that ignorant of the options? Have you looked at the possible poisons at all? Or the glyphs and considered the combinations?

Would you weave a light attack into your pattern of it did another 5,000 damage? Guess you never heard of glyph of prismatic onslaught. What about if it restored your most used resource? You never heard of the glyph of absorption? Or if a simple light attack procced a 3,000-plus shield? Glyph of hardening? Or reduced the mobs resistance by another 1,600? Glyph of crushing?

None of these ring a bell?

If you can't think of a reason for proccing a weapon glyph or equipped poison, you aren't creative enough.

OdinForge · November 2016

Get good mechanic

Cryptical you're confusing yourself for no reason. If you're currently weaving, you're animation canceling. If you're clipping a basic attack with a skill, you're using animation cancel. Go into Cyrodiil and do the exact same thing you just said but wait for every animation you do finish entirely, and see the difference.

The rest of your points are wasted breath. In my very first post here I mentioned that light attacks are indeed used for many secondary effects, you're now just regurgitating what I've already mentioned about why AC is important in the current design of the game. In my last response to you I was only responding to your mention of proc sets, which are mostly irrelevant to AC due to how most of them proc.

WeylandLabs · November 2016

Get good mechanic

Well thank god razer just made ps4 controller that allows us to program macros ( super animation cancels ) lol under 100$
And i intend to use it !

let the complaining begin you cant do anything hahahahahaha 123 go ! Rules sure but if they allow it on pc they have to allow it on console.

Complain poor players complain lmfao

danno8 · November 2016

Get good mechanic

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

Bossdonut wrote: »

Considering you can macro it, it's a cheat and only used by scrubs. True champions heavy attack their inferiors to death.

But you can macro regular ability rotations without attack weaves. That doesn't make regular ability rotations a cheat. The macro itself is the cheat.

Plus, I have no idea why anyone would macro any animation cancelling in this game. It's only 3 possible button pushes in the chain of light attack, skill, bash/block/dodge/swap. Macroing it would just mess up your timing if something doesn't land properly.

Julianos · November 2016

Cheat/exploit

Dymence wrote: »

2 kinds of people in this debate

1. The people who understand game mechanics
2. The people who don't understand game mechanics

Group 1 either doesn't care about animation cancelling, or sees it as a good thing.

Group 2 thinks it is a cheat that somehow bypasses global cooldowns of skills and makes you a dps god.

To group 2: Learn more about the game before you cry out in rage about *** you clearly dont comprehend. Especially @Axorn

I use AC and i do 35-40k dps with my every class every build. And i still think AC is *** obviosuly you dont comprehend anything or you are just a script user. Im not even raging or crying out you obviosly no idea how decent games works. AC can be replaced with non broken mechanics. Like faster animations faster global cooldowns and ulti generation by skills and light and heavy attacks could be used for resource management.

Im sure i understand game mechanics more than you but i dont have to like them especially when they emerged from glitches and causing exploits.

gitgud l2p.

WuffyCerulei · November 2016

Other (please explain)

Sorry, but when I see the abbreviation AC, I think of air conditioning <.<

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO · November 2016

Other (please explain)

Bad mechanic but not an exploit.

The problem with it is that it put people with a bad ping at a severe disadvantage compared to good ping when it comes to pvp and high end pve.

kadar · November 2016

Get good mechanic

Axorn wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

2 kinds of people in this debate

1. The people who understand game mechanics
2. The people who don't understand game mechanics

Group 1 either doesn't care about animation cancelling, or sees it as a good thing.

Group 2 thinks it is a cheat that somehow bypasses global cooldowns of skills and makes you a dps god.

To group 2: Learn more about the game before you cry out in rage about *** you clearly dont comprehend. Especially @Axorn

I use AC and i do 35-40k dps with my every class every build. And i still think AC is *** obviosuly you dont comprehend anything or you are just a script user. Im not even raging or crying out you obviosly no idea how decent games works. AC can be replaced with non broken mechanics. Like faster animations faster global cooldowns and ulti generation by skills and light and heavy attacks could be used for resource management.

Im sure i understand game mechanics more than you but i dont have to like them especially when they emerged from glitches and causing exploits.

gitgud l2p.

You discredit every point you make by mentioning scripts in all of your comments. Just take off the tinfoil, man. Ppl who have to type out that they are "not even raging or crying" in a comment also don't lend themselves much credence.

While some of those are not half bad suggestions, many in this thread have already explained why they won't/can't happen. The entire game would need to be redesigned. Despite a perpetual stream of facts to the contrary, some continue to call AC, cheating/exploiting.