Is there a healer support strike I don't know of ?

Flameheart · November 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

No healer strike.

But apparently there has been an influx of entitled DPS entering into ques lately.

It was not written in the Code of Conduct I signed to play this game that as a healer it my my job, duty, or requirement to use warhorns, elemental drains, siphon spirits, and orbs. There are other means of healing / supporting the group than acting as DPS third bar of support options that they are too lazy to slot themselves.

I can't believe how many people agree with this. It is part of the role.

This single post and the count of "agrees" can't demonstrate the source of the issue any better.

Zyrudin · November 2016

Hey Flameheart,

A good Healer will also support, but neither DD nor Tanks should be dependent on that direct and frequent support you mention in the original post, in my opinion.
Also, a good Healer will make sure he isn't dead when surrounded by a mob the Tank lost aggro from and the DD didn't notice to help with AoE damage, so the attention must go both ways and often it is found that it doesn't, for various reasons and not necessarily anyone's fault.

The bottom line is: adapt. Unless you are in a group that you know and is coordinated skill-wise, then if you are going to use the group finder, you will need to be flexible in terms of your own DD strategy and tactics.

Granted: there are good Healers and bad Healers, as is the case for DD and Tanks too. Nevertheless, if you only focus on one way to do your thing and become overly dependent on, let's say, the shard that your Healer may or may not be able to send your way, than you may also have not met the expectations of the other group members regarding your role.

Is the healer keeping the group alive through the essential stages?
Is he managing his resources?
Is he also keeping himself alive and dodging what needs to be dodged in a reasonable way?
Is the group managing to go through the dungeon with a valid chance of finishing it?

These are the questions that matter in the end, not the way the role is performed, I think.

EDIT: Oh and by the way, not all Healers have Shards and Repentance to offer, only the Templar ones

Regards!

Asmael · November 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

No healer strike.

But apparently there has been an influx of entitled DPS entering into ques lately.

It was not written in the Code of Conduct I signed to play this game that as a healer it my my job, duty, or requirement to use warhorns, elemental drains, siphon spirits, and orbs. There are other means of healing / supporting the group than acting as DPS third bar of support options that they are too lazy to slot themselves.

It wasn't written in the code of conduct of DDs that they should work on getting better DPS neither, nor that should rezz dead people so that the healer can keep healing, nor that they should slot a shield when necessary in situations where there's a lot of unavoidable damage.

It's not written that tanks should stack up adds and make things easier to AoE down, help off healing and protecting the group when needed. Nothing forces them to do more than taunt & block, then AFK'ing 90% of the time and only refreshing taunt on the boss.

It's not a code of conduct, it's something you do because it works better, even if, granted, when the DDs suck, no amount of support can make up for disastrous DPS. But apparently, it's "entitlement" to be looking for good group synergies.

But please, do tell me more about those "other means of healing / supporting the group".

Seri · November 2016

Flameheart wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

No healer strike.

But apparently there has been an influx of entitled DPS entering into ques lately.

It was not written in the Code of Conduct I signed to play this game that as a healer it my my job, duty, or requirement to use warhorns, elemental drains, siphon spirits, and orbs. There are other means of healing / supporting the group than acting as DPS third bar of support options that they are too lazy to slot themselves.

So many stars and so many "agrees" let me doubt for the playing skills of the entire community.

...but ok, oh wise one, what "other support" you think is more important to add ?

I run ele drain + shards and combat prayer for all 4-mans, and will slot repent or orbs if asked, but your initial post sounded like it demanded all of the above. As it is, the dungeons I use friends/guild the bosses die before the tank's warhorn expires. When I do PUG, combat metrics lists Ele Blockade + shard DOTs being a third of the DPS, despite providing IA and SPC, and checking if the DPS need anything extra. Incidentally the latter is why I don't do PUG very often anymore.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · November 2016

Flameheart wrote: »

SolarCat02 wrote: »

Sometimes buffing the DPS is a waste, though, and takes up skill slots best left for more offensive skills.

I somewhat agree to that even, because I know that the main issue in PUGs usually aren't healers or tanks (maybe just their rarity), but DDs who queue up as DDs and have not a single clue about their job, because of underwhelming or even awful dps and not knowing oneshot mechanics, but blaming the healer for not healing a oneshot (imagine that)...I play as a healer often enough, believe me I know such behaviour.

...but if you realize that - lets say after some trash or after the first boss (for testing single target dps), that the dps is fine, I think it would not fuss you to pop a bubble (or if not leveled yet, maybe a drain or a Siphon Soul) or a spear (in the templar case) here and there ? I for example try to use Siphon Soul even in some trash fights (placing it on the add with the largest health pool while the group is running towards the mobs to engage them). This skill has a nasty 1,5 sec cast time, but it's so worth it, not just for the magicka return, but for the healing too.

You did say in the OP that the dps wasnt fine though...

Flameheart · November 2016

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Flameheart wrote: »

SolarCat02 wrote: »

Sometimes buffing the DPS is a waste, though, and takes up skill slots best left for more offensive skills.

I somewhat agree to that even, because I know that the main issue in PUGs usually aren't healers or tanks (maybe just their rarity), but DDs who queue up as DDs and have not a single clue about their job, because of underwhelming or even awful dps and not knowing oneshot mechanics, but blaming the healer for not healing a oneshot (imagine that)...I play as a healer often enough, believe me I know such behaviour.

...but if you realize that - lets say after some trash or after the first boss (for testing single target dps), that the dps is fine, I think it would not fuss you to pop a bubble (or if not leveled yet, maybe a drain or a Siphon Soul) or a spear (in the templar case) here and there ? I for example try to use Siphon Soul even in some trash fights (placing it on the add with the largest health pool while the group is running towards the mobs to engage them). This skill has a nasty 1,5 sec cast time, but it's so worth it, not just for the magicka return, but for the healing too.

You did say in the OP that the dps wasnt fine though...

Mine was, that of the other guy not, but 50k+ for AoE trash and 25k+ to 30k+ for single target bosses (as mentioned without warhorn, the score depends on the specific boss encounter) should be even with another dead-loss-DD enough to earn some support. Although I like to burn through boss health bars alone too, another dead loss DD lets you run dry even on a magicka NB on bosses with 5m+ healthbars. I hate to be empty and on pot cooldown in my execute phase. To be honest, I didn't watch the healer do dps either.

...and to to specify my first post, I don't want all that stuff, just one thing would already help a lot.

Fodore · November 2016

Some of the healers you guys are on about must be pretty useless, key abilities for me are what you guys sag hardly anyone uses... Pretty bad healers. Blazing shards ( prefer that morph for a bit of dps ) repentance is an absolute must, you have got to be seriously dumb to not have a free heal/resource top up. Also purifying light is a must have for me, heals people when they are near that enemy and also can deal a lot of damage at the end of its initial effect. Then it's just the usual stuff, extended ritual, I find rapid regen Better than mutagen, illustrious healing I also prefer to springs. And then some others that I won't go into. For me to be the best healer you MUST be a Templar

Hamiltonmath · November 2016

I pug as a healer, and use ele drain, aether, worm cult, spell power, shards, repentance, warhorn, purifying light....I have orbs but I don't use them much unless someone asks. I also don't use spirit syphon much unless asked. I just got talked into using Power of the Light too. We'll see.

Junipus · November 2016

Flameheart wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Flameheart wrote: »

SolarCat02 wrote: »

Sometimes buffing the DPS is a waste, though, and takes up skill slots best left for more offensive skills.

I somewhat agree to that even, because I know that the main issue in PUGs usually aren't healers or tanks (maybe just their rarity), but DDs who queue up as DDs and have not a single clue about their job, because of underwhelming or even awful dps and not knowing oneshot mechanics, but blaming the healer for not healing a oneshot (imagine that)...I play as a healer often enough, believe me I know such behaviour.

...but if you realize that - lets say after some trash or after the first boss (for testing single target dps), that the dps is fine, I think it would not fuss you to pop a bubble (or if not leveled yet, maybe a drain or a Siphon Soul) or a spear (in the templar case) here and there ? I for example try to use Siphon Soul even in some trash fights (placing it on the add with the largest health pool while the group is running towards the mobs to engage them). This skill has a nasty 1,5 sec cast time, but it's so worth it, not just for the magicka return, but for the healing too.

You did say in the OP that the dps wasnt fine though...

Mine was, that of the other guy not, but 50k+ for AoE trash and 25k+ to 30k+ for single target bosses (as mentioned without warhorn, the score depends on the specific boss encounter) should be even with another dead-loss-DD enough to earn some support. Although I like to burn through boss health bars alone too, another dead loss DD lets you run dry even on a magicka NB on bosses with 5m+ healthbars. I hate to be empty and on pot cooldown in my execute phase. To be honest, I didn't watch the healer do dps either.

...and to to specify my first post, I don't want all that stuff, just one thing would already help a lot.

As a magblade, always put siphoning attacks on your bar. It doesn't always help but it can make a noticeable difference in your sustain without any support from healers.

Also, if someone's healing pugs it's sometimes possible to determine your bars from looking at their setups e.g. both DDs with staves means magicka dps and so can throw spears less (assuming they're not DDs with staves, heavy armour and stamina morphs).

I always run horn over barrier, nova or any other damage ultimate as a healer. The extra damage boost for 9.5 seconds can help even the most miserable of DDs with doing enough damage to make a difference.

I would also recommend using repentence over restoring aura as it gives you an emergency heal (and quite powerful too) for free, something that would be of utmost importance if you're pugging and drained of magicka healing the stupid.

code65536 · November 2016

Flameheart wrote: »

Within the last days whenever I do vet pledges into random groups I got as a magicka dd the following over a sequel of maybe 25 vet plages:

-Elemental Drain -> never
-Siphon Soul -> never
-bubbles -> never
-warhorn -> never
-repentance (not that it would bother me as a magicka DD, but ok, helps for blocking) -> never
-5 spears (I guess I stole them from the tank)

..but I see healers busy clicking hard mode scrolls to up boss health by 2 million+ and in one case demanding a speed- and no death run after starting an instance (not even a spear btw).

Did I miss something ? [snip] is there a bug with the above support skills I don't know of ? need I to rub some feet before I carry the group through at the cost of 30+ pots because the other DD is a dead loss ?

[Edit to remove inappropriate comment.]

I do things very differently in a dungeon than in a trial:

Ele Drain: I'll run it if the DPS asks for it.
Siphon Spirit: I run it only if the DPS asks for it. And reluctantly. Cast time is too annoying.
Orbs: I'll run it if the DPS asks for it.
War Horn: Healer should not use War Horn is 4-man content; running a DPS ultimate like meteor will be better for the overall group DPS (or Nova)
Repentence: Should always run unless there's a stamplar in the group who prefers to run it (so that they can better control when they get resources)
Shards: Should always run because it's good DPS

I am of the opinion that healers should be pure support only in trials. In small-group content like dungeons, the overall group DPS is better served by the healer doing DPS, and I never run a full-support healer setup in 4-man dungeons. I don't even slot Springs for dungeons. Lay down my Regeneration and Ritual HoTs, swap to DPS bar, cast Breath or Repentance as needed if there's damage that bursts through the HoTs.

Of course, in a trial, I'll be in full-support mode. But small-group PvE is a very different beast than trials PvE, and it doesn't make sense to heal the former as if it was the latter.

Kelces · November 2016

I almost instantly know, what it is, my group needs. It seems you didn't get very lucky...

If it's a group of only magicka users, I don't bother with using radiant aura/repentance and slot orbs and throw shards exclusively to the tank. Both radiant aura and orbs in case of having both magicka and stamina users of course. Imagine, not one group complained about me not using repentance!

because you don't always get corpses laying around in every fight.

If you think most healers are so bad, then maybe it's time for you to play a healer yourself instead and be a good example...

raj72616a · November 2016

acw37162 wrote: »

Best thing I heard during this day, "wait don't start again I'm going to slot werewolf so I can tank better"

i slot werewolf on my tank too. it gives +15% stam regen. i'm not cp capped yet i still have resource problem on my stamplar tank. some healers dont help with stam so i sometimes even use drink instead of food.

W0lf_z13 · November 2016

the healer i have im working on morphing one more skill and working on obtaining 2 more skills ... currently i run combat prayer, repentance, shards, healing springs, extended ritual, force siphon ( working on morphing that to Siphon Spirit ) and working on getting my alliance rank high enough to get warhorn ... 1 more undaunted lvl to go to unlock orbs

Junipus · November 2016

code65536 wrote: »

I am of the opinion that healers should be pure support only in trials. In small-group content like dungeons, the overall group DPS is better served by the healer doing DPS, and I never run a full-support healer setup in 4-man dungeons..

I'd agree with you, but this is pug runs we're talking about and if you get lucky enough on pug runs to get away with a hybrid setup then we envy you, but most times you need to go full trial setup so you can keep everyone alive with enough buffs to not wipe themselves within 20 seconds.

Flameheart · November 2016

Kelces wrote: »

If you think most healers are so bad, then maybe it's time for you to play a healer yourself instead and be a good example...

hey, I do, but not always. I have golden healer equipments (Kagrenac + willpower + a random 2-set-bonus for magicka reg for my DK, Sorc and NB, SPC + Worm for my templar) and a golden dps equip for my NB, Sorc, DK and Templar, in the case of my NB even a golden tank equip (Tavas + Ebon + a couple of monster sets for situational use as Engine Guardian, Bloodspawn, Lord Warden Swarm Mother). I damned love to play all three roles and all my chars (which is the reason I PUG often, because I can't play them all in raids and not all in my guild have the motivation to do 2-3 pledges on up to 3 to 4 chars a day...that reminds me...get out of that damned Mahlstrom Arena already and Token system there ftw :-)

Dasovaruilos · November 2016

Flameheart wrote: »

Within the last days whenever I do vet pledges into random groups I got as a magicka dd the following over a sequel of maybe 25 vet plages:

-Elemental Drain -> never
-Siphon Soul -> never
-bubbles -> never
-warhorn -> never
-repentance (not that it would bother me as a magicka DD, but ok, helps for blocking) -> never
-5 spears (I guess I stole them from the tank)

..but I see healers busy clicking hard mode scrolls to up boss health by 2 million+ and in one case demanding a speed- and no death run after starting an instance (not even a spear btw).

Did I miss something ? [snip] is there a bug with the above support skills I don't know of ? need I to rub some feet before I carry the group through at the cost of 30+ pots because the other DD is a dead loss ?

[Edit to remove inappropriate comment.]

Let me tell you my experience from healing for a year now and playing about 5, 6 to dungeons a day, between Vet Pledges, Normal Randoms and Normal Vaults, WGT and Fungal farms (after OT):

1. Repentance and Spears are mandatory for me. I never run dungeons without them.

2. Elemental Drain and Siphon Soul are almost NEVER worth it in general for dungeons, unless in very specific cases. The raw DPS output of most healers seems to be more cost effective.

3. Bubbles: I've ran them, I've leveled them, I've used them... Only to see them floating around without a single soul activating the synergy. Everybody that knows what they do are Stamina now.

4. Warhorn: In top level groups, I put this on. With low level groups, the Destro ultimate is much more effective than Warhorn.

So, I understand that you want more support, but the truth is, unless you are with a very top group of DPSs and with very specific goals, the healer doing more DPS is better than just supporting.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · November 2016

Junipus wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

I am of the opinion that healers should be pure support only in trials. In small-group content like dungeons, the overall group DPS is better served by the healer doing DPS, and I never run a full-support healer setup in 4-man dungeons..

I'd agree with you, but this is pug runs we're talking about and if you get lucky enough on pug runs to get away with a hybrid setup then we envy you, but most times you need to go full trial setup so you can keep everyone alive with enough buffs to not wipe themselves within 20 seconds.

Wouldnt that be a spamming heal set up? If they are wiping themselves inside 20 seconds then Slotting more support skills wont save them. Ive never heard anyone say, 'wow this would have gone south at the 20 second mark, but that elemental drain saved our bacon.'

If you group is dying that fast you have one of two options, spam heal since they are getting mowed down like grass, and hope they recover. Or add dps hoping you can relieve some of the stress. I guess you have 3. Leave the group because your group runs out of resources 20 seconds into a fight.

Flameheart · November 2016

code65536 wrote: »

Flameheart wrote: »

Within the last days whenever I do vet pledges into random groups I got as a magicka dd the following over a sequel of maybe 25 vet plages:

-Elemental Drain -> never
-Siphon Soul -> never
-bubbles -> never
-warhorn -> never
-repentance (not that it would bother me as a magicka DD, but ok, helps for blocking) -> never
-5 spears (I guess I stole them from the tank)

..but I see healers busy clicking hard mode scrolls to up boss health by 2 million+ and in one case demanding a speed- and no death run after starting an instance (not even a spear btw).

Did I miss something ? [snip] is there a bug with the above support skills I don't know of ? need I to rub some feet before I carry the group through at the cost of 30+ pots because the other DD is a dead loss ?

[Edit to remove inappropriate comment.]

I do things very differently in a dungeon than in a trial:
Ele Drain: I'll run it if the DPS asks for it.

Siphon Spirit: I run it only if the DPS asks for it. And reluctantly. Cast time is too annoying.

Orbs: I'll run it if the DPS asks for it.

War Horn: Healer should not use War Horn is 4-man content; running a DPS ultimate like meteor will be better for the overall group DPS (or Nova)

Repentence: Should always run unless there's a stamplar in the group who prefers to run it (so that they can better control when they get resources)

Shards: Should always run because it's good DPS

I am of the opinion that healers should be pure support only in trials. In small-group content like dungeons, the overall group DPS is better served by the healer doing DPS, and I never run a full-support healer setup in 4-man dungeons. I don't even slot Springs for dungeons. Lay down my Regeneration and Ritual HoTs, swap to DPS bar, cast Breath or Repentance as needed if there's damage that bursts through the HoTs.

Of course, in a trial, I'll be in full-support mode. But small-group PvE is a very different beast than trials PvE, and it doesn't make sense to heal the former as if it was the latter.

I can agree with that...and yes I forgot to mention that I asked ("any bubbles, drain or Siphon Soul available?") and got ignored. I just wanted one.

code65536 · November 2016

Junipus wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

I am of the opinion that healers should be pure support only in trials. In small-group content like dungeons, the overall group DPS is better served by the healer doing DPS, and I never run a full-support healer setup in 4-man dungeons..

I'd agree with you, but this is pug runs we're talking about and if you get lucky enough on pug runs to get away with a hybrid setup then we envy you, but most times you need to go full trial setup so you can keep everyone alive with enough buffs to not wipe themselves within 20 seconds.

I think the opposite is true. In a PUG run, you should run even less support. If the DPS is just standing there light-attacking with a bow for 2K DPS, why on earth would I care if he's dead or alive or if he has the proper buffs? Support is wasted on a bad DPS that can't capitalize on the buffs that you provide. Heals are wasted on a DPS who isn't contributing to the group. I will play with more support in mind if it's a good group and I know that the support that I provide will actually be put to good use. Otherwise, my focus will be on my own DPS so that I can carry the group.

Yesterday, I queued for a random normal dungeon on my alt account for the daily reward. I was assigned the role of tank. On the very first pull, I did 50% of the overall group DPS in my tank setup. I immediately gear-swapped to pure DPS and just ran the rest of the dungeon as if I was soloing it. I could've continued to tank it, but it would've made no sense to do so.

Dasovaruilos · November 2016

code65536 wrote: »

Flameheart wrote: »

Within the last days whenever I do vet pledges into random groups I got as a magicka dd the following over a sequel of maybe 25 vet plages:

-Elemental Drain -> never
-Siphon Soul -> never
-bubbles -> never
-warhorn -> never
-repentance (not that it would bother me as a magicka DD, but ok, helps for blocking) -> never
-5 spears (I guess I stole them from the tank)

..but I see healers busy clicking hard mode scrolls to up boss health by 2 million+ and in one case demanding a speed- and no death run after starting an instance (not even a spear btw).

Did I miss something ? [snip] is there a bug with the above support skills I don't know of ? need I to rub some feet before I carry the group through at the cost of 30+ pots because the other DD is a dead loss ?

[Edit to remove inappropriate comment.]

I do things very differently in a dungeon than in a trial:
Ele Drain: I'll run it if the DPS asks for it.

Siphon Spirit: I run it only if the DPS asks for it. And reluctantly. Cast time is too annoying.

Orbs: I'll run it if the DPS asks for it.

War Horn: Healer should not use War Horn is 4-man content; running a DPS ultimate like meteor will be better for the overall group DPS (or Nova)

Repentence: Should always run unless there's a stamplar in the group who prefers to run it (so that they can better control when they get resources)

Shards: Should always run because it's good DPS

I am of the opinion that healers should be pure support only in trials. In small-group content like dungeons, the overall group DPS is better served by the healer doing DPS, and I never run a full-support healer setup in 4-man dungeons. I don't even slot Springs for dungeons. Lay down my Regeneration and Ritual HoTs, swap to DPS bar, cast Breath or Repentance as needed if there's damage that bursts through the HoTs.

Of course, in a trial, I'll be in full-support mode. But small-group PvE is a very different beast than trials PvE, and it doesn't make sense to heal the former as if it was the latter.

Well, you basically nailed it. If I had seen this before I wouldn't even post because you said it all.

I also don't even run Healing Springs unless the situation very specifically requires it. I love HS, but people in general just doesn't know how it works so most of the times in dungeons Healing Springs is more work than necessary for the healer.

bottleofsyrup · November 2016

I'm pretty new to healing. Just got my Templar geared for it about a week ago, but I had a pretty good idea just from observing good healers I've ran with. I'll look at the group setup when we first port in to determine what I should run. Ele drain if either DPS are magicka users, even orbs if another Templar is already running Repentance. Shards I keep on no matter what. If both DPS are magicka then I just keep shards on the tank.

Junipus · November 2016

code65536 wrote: »

Junipus wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

I am of the opinion that healers should be pure support only in trials. In small-group content like dungeons, the overall group DPS is better served by the healer doing DPS, and I never run a full-support healer setup in 4-man dungeons..

I'd agree with you, but this is pug runs we're talking about and if you get lucky enough on pug runs to get away with a hybrid setup then we envy you, but most times you need to go full trial setup so you can keep everyone alive with enough buffs to not wipe themselves within 20 seconds.

I think the opposite is true. In a PUG run, you should run even less support. If the DPS is just standing there light-attacking with a bow for 2K DPS, why on earth would I care if he's dead or alive or if he has the proper buffs? Support is wasted on a bad DPS that can't capitalize on the buffs that you provide. Heals are wasted on a DPS who isn't contributing to the group. I will play with more support in mind if it's a good group and I know that the support that I provide will actually be put to good use. Otherwise, my focus will be on my own DPS so that I can carry the group.

Yesterday, I queued for a random normal dungeon on my alt account for the daily reward. I was assigned the role of tank. On the very first pull, I did 50% of the overall group DPS in my tank setup. I immediately gear-swapped to pure DPS and just ran the rest of the dungeon as if I was soloing it. I could've continued to tank it, but it would've made no sense to do so.

That's fair enough, as has been pointed out before in this thread - each to their own as I would take the approach of trying to keep alive the rest of the group while they slugged out poor dps (although 2k would cause me to quit the group since there'd be no hope).

Speaking of hyperbole, 20 seconds would be too short obviously but the message is the same.

HegemonIQ · November 2016

Flameheart wrote: »

Within the last days whenever I do vet pledges into random groups I got as a magicka dd the following over a sequel of maybe 25 vet plages:

-Elemental Drain -> never
-Siphon Soul -> never
-bubbles -> never
-warhorn -> never
-repentance (not that it would bother me as a magicka DD, but ok, helps for blocking) -> never
-5 spears (I guess I stole them from the tank)

..but I see healers busy clicking hard mode scrolls to up boss health by 2 million+ and in one case demanding a speed- and no death run after starting an instance (not even a spear btw).

Did I miss something ? [snip] is there a bug with the above support skills I don't know of ? need I to rub some feet before I carry the group through at the cost of 30+ pots because the other DD is a dead loss ?

[Edit to remove inappropriate comment.]

-Elemental Drain - was your healer running a destro staff? I use double swords and a resto, so this is never on my rotation.
-Siphon Soul - never use it, hate the channel and my healing springs returns more magicka
-Bubbles - if I'm running with mags, sure I can slot this, but it's expensive and has a channel, lately, have been running with a lot of stams - so thankfully not needed
-Warhorn - I have it leveled and will slot only if the tank doesn't have it...which is frankly rare
-Repentance - usually have this on (since it improves regen), but it depends on the team, do you have a stamplar in the group with it slotted, no need to duplicate if someone is already running it
-Spears - ok agree with you here...if you are a templar healer spears are a must...aside from the obvious stam return (I use blazing, sorry no magicka return, my spears are intended for the tank and they need the stam more than you), spears stun and apply an aoe dot...so mob control and dps plus a return, so a must have. Though, have also had complaints from DPS that since they have to be synergized, they don't want to use them and prefer that I repent the mob instead.

But here's the issue I have with your post. If you've chosen to build a character that sacrifices regen and resource management in the pursuit of the ultimate burst DPS. If you can't get through a single mob or rotation without completely depleting your resource pool and have no skills or way to replenish your own resources...then the problem is deeper than a healer that doesn't have bubbles slotted.

SpAEkus · November 2016

Practical question for this thread maybe?

I'm finishing morphing all the healer main and support skills during Witches and want to start some training after that (I have Dwrath, Destro and Spears complete as well for off-dps when slotted).

Would anyone recommend a skills swap addon to have saved skill sets based on all the knowledge in this thread? Or if I matrix out the many BIS bars discussed here are there going to be just a few flex spots that I can swap manually before starting each phase?

I don't want to be the fumbler trying to get set as the DD/Tanks start every pull.

HegemonIQ · November 2016

Hamiltonmath wrote: »

I pug as a healer, and use ele drain, aether, worm cult, spell power, shards, repentance, warhorn, purifying light....I have orbs but I don't use them much unless someone asks. I also don't use spirit syphon much unless asked. I just got talked into using Power of the Light too. We'll see.

Hmmm...aether, worm cult and spell power...interesting. Last I checked, it's not possible to get full procs on three 5 piece sets. Please explain how you achieving this glorious feat.

Lava_Croft · November 2016

I didn't know there was any 4-player content requiring any of the things you listed.

Flameheart · November 2016

Lava_Croft wrote: »

I didn't know there was any 4-player content requiring any of the things you listed.

You might really do it from time to time and experience the new hardmode bosses with up to 7m+ life, with another DD that pulls just half of average. You might encounter some issues, even on a magicka NB with Siphoning Attacks after several magicka skills were upped in costs, Funnel Health included.

You won't encounter any issues of course if you do LA spam.

Lava_Croft · November 2016

Flameheart wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

I didn't know there was any 4-player content requiring any of the things you listed.

You might really do it from time to time and experience the new hardmode bosses with up to 7m+ life, with another DD that pulls just half of average. You might encounter some issues, even on a magicka NB with Siphoning Attacks after several magicka skills were upped in costs, Funnel Health included.

You won't encounter any issues of course if you do LA spam.

I tank and/or heal with randoms. All it does is take more time, not add any challenge.

Maybe try to stop being a scrub?

Flameheart · November 2016

HegemonIQ wrote: »

Flameheart wrote: »

Within the last days whenever I do vet pledges into random groups I got as a magicka dd the following over a sequel of maybe 25 vet plages:

-Elemental Drain -> never
-Siphon Soul -> never
-bubbles -> never
-warhorn -> never
-repentance (not that it would bother me as a magicka DD, but ok, helps for blocking) -> never
-5 spears (I guess I stole them from the tank)

..but I see healers busy clicking hard mode scrolls to up boss health by 2 million+ and in one case demanding a speed- and no death run after starting an instance (not even a spear btw).

Did I miss something ? [snip] is there a bug with the above support skills I don't know of ? need I to rub some feet before I carry the group through at the cost of 30+ pots because the other DD is a dead loss ?

[Edit to remove inappropriate comment.]

-Elemental Drain - was your healer running a destro staff? I use double swords and a resto, so this is never on my rotation.
-Siphon Soul - never use it, hate the channel and my healing springs returns more magicka
-Bubbles - if I'm running with mags, sure I can slot this, but it's expensive and has a channel, lately, have been running with a lot of stams - so thankfully not needed
-Warhorn - I have it leveled and will slot only if the tank doesn't have it...which is frankly rare
-Repentance - usually have this on (since it improves regen), but it depends on the team, do you have a stamplar in the group with it slotted, no need to duplicate if someone is already running it
-Spears - ok agree with you here...if you are a templar healer spears are a must...aside from the obvious stam return (I use blazing, sorry no magicka return, my spears are intended for the tank and they need the stam more than you), spears stun and apply an aoe dot...so mob control and dps plus a return, so a must have. Though, have also had complaints from DPS that since they have to be synergized, they don't want to use them and prefer that I repent the mob instead.

But here's the issue I have with your post. If you've chosen to build a character that sacrifices regen and resource management in the pursuit of the ultimate burst DPS. If you can't get through a single mob or rotation without completely depleting your resource pool and have no skills or way to replenish your own resources...then the problem is deeper than a healer that doesn't have bubbles slotted.

to 1) cool, Elemental Drain even decreases resistances (but ok, should be delivered already by the tank with Pierce Armor at least on bosses)
to 2) awesome and you know that the difference is to whom magicka gets restored ?
to 3) what channel ?

My build is the absolute standard magicka DD build for a NB, not much changed there since ages. You can look it up on Tamriel Foundry, and on Alqast's website.

I have around 800 magicka reg as a DD which is the usual for a NB. Add to that the usual 100 CP in Magician, rest in Arcanist. I also use Funnel Health instead of the more expensive Force Pulse (Force Pulse might return more magicka instead if Elemental Drain is up, but ok, therefore it has to be up first).

Slot 1: Wall of Elements
Slot 2: Crippling Grasp
Slot 3: Force Pulse/ Funnel Health
Slot 4: Merciless Resolve
Slot 5: Inner Light
Ulti: Shooting Star

Inferno Staff / 2 swords 2nd Bar:
Slot 1: Siphoning Attacks
Slot 2: Sap Essence
Slot 3: Twisting Path / Refreshing Path (maybe Rearming Trap if you can go melee)
Slot 4: Impale
Slot 5: Inner Light
Ulti: Soul Harvest

code65536 · November 2016

Flameheart wrote: »

You might really do it from time to time and experience the new hardmode bosses with up to 7m+ life, with another DD that pulls just half of average.

It depends on what the healer's doing. If the healer is sacrificing support for more healing, that's not good. But if the healer doesn't run as much support so that the healer can do more DPS, that's fine, and in bad PUGs, I would compensate for a "half of average" DPS not by buffing him, but by doing DPS myself to make up for it.

Many of the healers that I run with do a substantial amount of DPS, and as a result, I try to be a bit more self-sufficient as a DPS so that they can worry less about me and spend more time doing damage.

Edit: Since you bring up your magblade, I'll add that I am completely fine with absolutely zero healer support when I'm on my magblade. I always run Funnel in 4-man because the extra heals means the healer can do more DPS, and the lower cost means the healer doesn't have to worry about doing Ele. Siphoning Attacks with Funnel weave means I have zero problems in single-target fights. For AoE, I like to have a lightning staff on the back bar instead of dual swords. Why? Because if I run low on magicka, I can do a lightning heavy channel that both restores magicka and does a lot of AoE damage. So I'll sap until I start getting a little low, then a lightning channel or two, and the sap again. A staff on the back bar also means that I can weave my execute.