Axorn wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

If you hate animation canceling, you're doing so out of some internal personal vendetta.

If they removed animation canceling from the game, they'd need to change how ultimate is built and the purpose of light or heavy attacking with a weapon, along with the speed of animations to help keep the game feeling fluid. Because it would feel very extremely sluggish without the ability to weave.

If you couldn't animation cancel, light attacks would be pointless to even bother doing. You'd just be button mashing your skill over and over, light attacks in the current system at least serve to break pure spam and perform functions (build ultimate, apply enchants, add some damage, etc).

Animation canceling is a fair part of the game, at least until the devs decide they want to reinvent the combat system again. If you think animation canceling somehow makes macro'ing possible or any worse than without, you've clearly never played any game ever. Macro's are a thing in any game, regardless of if AC is possible or not.

NO you dont need AC for all these you can increase animation speed and give skills to generate ulti feature there you go fixed.

But animation cancelling is basically speeding up an animation.

So your solution is to stop animation cancelling and then increase the speed of animations?

#Logic?

Where is the logic using a broken mechanic its not even look good while fighting people attack and i dont even see what they cast or what they do thats stupid...

There some logic for you

Well you do see what they cast, you also can hear what they cast. It doesn't make it invisible..

I love how you keep saying 'broken' mechanic when it's been greenlit by the dev's so your basically just lying.

Call it a mechanic that your too lazy to do or cant do and wont learn. It's more accurate.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

its a bad mechanic... anyone defending it just wants to exploit the extra damage because they think it adds skill...

Real skill is being able to see what your opponent is doing and reacting appropriate.. hiding attacks with animation canceling is not skill... its just reflex/macro or muscle memory

@old_mufasa

Anything with full blessings from the Devs cannot be properly termed as an exploit.

Your correct about skill is required to read the opponent properly. However, it also takes skill to get the max damage on the opponent also. I doubt most players use macros for animation canceling. It's easier to learn to do it right and works better with adjusting to the opponent.

Please learn to read.. I never said the mechanic was a exploit.... I said that you animation cancel to exploit the extra damage....

I think it's an exploit, but ZOS has acknowledged it because it'll be very very hard or impossible to remove.

Its neither good mechanics nor a cheat. Every DPS role that Ive experienced has had some type of "clipping" animation to be able to pull off a combo attack faster. DPS=Damage per second. If you decide to not hit faster you will fall behind in damage. I guess because I've always been able to cut animation times shorter in every other game, I guess Ive gotten use to it.

Personally I think its kinda crap because I can't react to and counter something I cannot see. But by far the biggiest thing is Macro's imo. Yes I understand people say they can do things faster by mucle memory. But the quick swap buffing/healing and going right back to sheer dps without even seeing whats happening is messed up.

There are people out there legit able to kill me (someone fairly decent I'd wager) in about 3 seconds. I'll look at my combat log and be like WOW the thing is filled with attacks I didn't even see happening.

I guess thats where I stand... make it so I can actually "see" what is happening. To me it just feels super cheap otherwise. The fact it is "unintended" and you have to sync up "certain" attacks/blocks in a "certain" pattern to do it should be clear evidence it is a type of exploit. But it is an accepted one, because alot like the old stranglers that "pulled" you to them... Zos couldn't fix them, so they just did the quickest fix they could. In this case it was nothing at all, in the case of stranglers it was to give them a snare instead which invalidated alot of mechanics they where originally designed to complicate (vma round 3 and electric water)

Muscle memory, quick reactions, strategic positioning, and the subtle nuances to every build are all legit parts of pvp and the game as a whole. But scripting, macroing, and these extreme forms of Animation cancling arn't very legit, and feel about as legit as firing 2 arrows and timing them so they hit at the same time. While it provides awesome burst, we all know it's wonky and completely taking advantage of the situation.

I'd prefer is not possible. Id rather see my animations and not bypass animations. If you stop an animation it should cancel the action.

well its not classed as a cheat but its no different then one, if you were playing any other game and someone hits you with 4 or 5 moves in an instant and you didn't see any of them you would class it as a cheat.

basically if the animation doesn't happen then neither should the damage, simple as that.

also while I agree it does take some skill to learn how to do it once you've practiced enough so it becomes muscle memory it requires little to no skill at all to use, most people that use it are only average at best and have to use it because they don't have the skill to adapt to battling different types of builds and situations, I know players that can adapt by analysing the other players build and finding the weaknesses, that takes real skill, also a truly skilled player wouldn't need to use it.

truth is if ZOS removed it most people would realize they aren't as skilled as they thought they were and would probably quit but given the amount of people that jumped ship after the 1Tam update it doesn't really matter anyway .

*Replying to original post only:


Yes, it is exploiting a bug... in many cases but NOT all cases.

IMO weaving(chaining lights between skills and/or charging 'mediums' during skill animations) is fine. It makes combat fluid, and does seem logical (and adds that element of skill a player can add to the 'mix' and improve his performance)

But the tards who 'twitch' and shower out a bunch of arrows, or send steel slicing though everything around them, or healing, etc that imo is cheating and should be stopped.(IE the guys who u KNOW use macros because they are chaining 4-5 skills/attacks/etc with blocks between each faster than its humanly possible to react/move, as well as, to lesser extent, those who CAN do it and do it well, without macros...but anyone can tell those two players apart.)

It should have the MOMENT it came to light, but zos, as they have proven over and over, are lazy and will NOT fix their game if there's no money in it for them.

For certain skills, that really, logically, 'demand' the full animation (Example: arrow hail) if you cancel it (Bar swap, block, etc) the skill should simply NOT GO OFF.

For other skills with channeled effects, it should NOT be cancel-able (IE you cannot block, cannot bar swap, etc, the skill, once started, has to finish.)

I have learned to use said skills with and without canceling, and I admit that now(And partially BECAUSE Of this issue they never stepped up to and fixed) one can't really expect to do the harder content in the game and pull the 'expected' damage values without doing, but that has only lead and fed the 'power creep' that has pretty much killed this game.

So TL/DR version is, yes it is exploiting, and it is a bug, but in some cases(IE weaving) its fine and should be kept in, but other (IE barswap/block cancels) it should be 'fixed' and prevented.

Trublz wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

its a bad mechanic... anyone defending it just wants to exploit the extra damage because they think it adds skill...

Real skill is being able to see what your opponent is doing and reacting appropriate.. hiding attacks with animation canceling is not skill... its just reflex/macro or muscle memory

I agree being able to see and react appropriately is a skill
But having good reflexes and muscle memory is a skill too...
using an accepted mechanic of a game to its fullest is what everyone should aspire to do. Not cry because they don't have the "skill" to do it

Are you even playing ESO? Animation canceling is dooable once you practice enough and thinking it is some kind of skill laughable.

Anyone who defends animation canceling as skill seems to be hiding from a truly skill based . One where skill means properly reacting to a situation and not mindlessly blasting with every gun until someone dies.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

If you hate animation canceling, you're doing so out of some internal personal vendetta.

If they removed animation canceling from the game, they'd need to change how ultimate is built and the purpose of light or heavy attacking with a weapon, along with the speed of animations to help keep the game feeling fluid. Because it would feel very extremely sluggish without the ability to weave.

If you couldn't animation cancel, light attacks would be pointless to even bother doing. You'd just be button mashing your skill over and over, light attacks in the current system at least serve to break pure spam and perform functions (build ultimate, apply enchants, add some damage, etc).

Animation canceling is a fair part of the game, at least until the devs decide they want to reinvent the combat system again. If you think animation canceling somehow makes macro'ing possible or any worse than without, you've clearly never played any game ever. Macro's are a thing in any game, regardless of if AC is possible or not.

NO you dont need AC for all these you can increase animation speed and give skills to generate ulti feature there you go fixed.

But animation cancelling is basically speeding up an animation.

So your solution is to stop animation cancelling and then increase the speed of animations?

#Logic?

Where is the logic using a broken mechanic its not even look good while fighting people attack and i dont even see what they cast or what they do thats stupid...

There some logic for you

Well you do see what they cast, you also can hear what they cast. It doesn't make it invisible..

I love how you keep saying 'broken' mechanic when it's been greenlit by the dev's so your basically just lying.

Call it a mechanic that your too lazy to do or cant do and wont learn. It's more accurate.

That's such utter nonsense. My heavy attack animation cancelling of wrecking blow wants a word with you. Along with 10 other routine combos.

If everyone can learn to do it deliberately, then it is not a cheat/exploit.

On the other hand this was a bug in beta but they obviously couldn't fix it without some sort of major problem so they gave up and stated that it was now a feature, so everyone was allowed to exploit it.

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Trublz wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

its a bad mechanic... anyone defending it just wants to exploit the extra damage because they think it adds skill...

Real skill is being able to see what your opponent is doing and reacting appropriate.. hiding attacks with animation canceling is not skill... its just reflex/macro or muscle memory

I agree being able to see and react appropriately is a skill
But having good reflexes and muscle memory is a skill too...
using an accepted mechanic of a game to its fullest is what everyone should aspire to do. Not cry because they don't have the "skill" to do it

Are you even playing ESO? Animation canceling is dooable once you practice enough and thinking it is some kind of skill laughable.

Anyone who defends animation canceling as skill seems to be hiding from a truly skill based . One where skill means properly reacting to a situation and not mindlessly blasting with every gun until someone dies.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

If you hate animation canceling, you're doing so out of some internal personal vendetta.

If they removed animation canceling from the game, they'd need to change how ultimate is built and the purpose of light or heavy attacking with a weapon, along with the speed of animations to help keep the game feeling fluid. Because it would feel very extremely sluggish without the ability to weave.

If you couldn't animation cancel, light attacks would be pointless to even bother doing. You'd just be button mashing your skill over and over, light attacks in the current system at least serve to break pure spam and perform functions (build ultimate, apply enchants, add some damage, etc).

Animation canceling is a fair part of the game, at least until the devs decide they want to reinvent the combat system again. If you think animation canceling somehow makes macro'ing possible or any worse than without, you've clearly never played any game ever. Macro's are a thing in any game, regardless of if AC is possible or not.

NO you dont need AC for all these you can increase animation speed and give skills to generate ulti feature there you go fixed.

But animation cancelling is basically speeding up an animation.

So your solution is to stop animation cancelling and then increase the speed of animations?

#Logic?

Where is the logic using a broken mechanic its not even look good while fighting people attack and i dont even see what they cast or what they do thats stupid...

There some logic for you

Well you do see what they cast, you also can hear what they cast. It doesn't make it invisible..

I love how you keep saying 'broken' mechanic when it's been greenlit by the dev's so your basically just lying.

Call it a mechanic that your too lazy to do or cant do and wont learn. It's more accurate.

That's such utter nonsense. My heavy attack animation cancelling of wrecking blow wants a word with you. Along with 10 other routine combos.

True that.
Dawnbreaker can be pretty much completely clipped.
Just today a nb ambushed me, the onky sound audible was teleport strike, the only animation was teleport strike followed by me dying, the death recap:- teleport strike, viper, Incapacitating Strike, killers blade.
(PvP in 5 light while not playing a sorc is not a good idea lol, but a trials build mdk is jokes dps with good support)

Do we really need such a thread every week? It upsets the poor carebears so much

It's a *** bad example of "User Interface Design". If a User does something there should be a visible result.

Maybe I gotta l2p, but when I use (or try to use) AC one of a multitude of things happens:
1. I get what I wanted: a dmg-number and the animation was cancelled
2. the whole action was cancelled and I just lost some dps, although I timed it exactly like when 1. happened
3. something like 1., but the next action is delayed and takes longer, rendering my AC attempt pointless, because my first and second action together took the same amount of time if I hadn't tried AC in the first place..
4. something like 1., but the next action I want to AC isn't executed at all, in spite of the yellow circle clearly being displayed for a second or more, e.g. when using templar shards, or endless hail with quick aoe cast option enabled + AC via bar swap or block.

And then there's the skills that say "Cast time 1.1s", but take something between 1.5 and 2s - oh, and the next button push won't be registered if the animation's still running. So far I've found no consistent way to cancel that without the risk of cancelling the whole action.. maybe if I time my block according to my current ping!?

So I view AC as incosistent and very dependent on your ping/lag/response time/delay/whatever... and I hate it. I want to push a button and see its result and the next thing I push shall be queued and executed afterwards and not partly overwrite the animation, just because some of the animation happens after the actual impact of my blow.

Ah.. here's a nice video https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279879/animation-cancelling-how-is-this-possible/p2
But I still don't get it.. If I do AC like in the example starting at 0:27 I get the circle on the ground faster, wow - but I gain NOTHING, because the NEXT skill I want to trigger is delayed like I didn't use AC for the first skill..!? So what the hell did I win by ACing the first action?!?

Or is this whole AC thing just about cancelling your light and heavy attacks, and about cancelling skills only if you want to block/dodge/bar swap directly afterwards. And not to speed up chaining of skills?