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What are crown crates? And why all the fuss, are they P2W?
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BuddyAces✭✭✭✭✭
✭I also found some threads on SWtOR and its hypercrates, I would assume this is what the crown crates are being compared to? probably against the forum rules to post links to the forums, but I googled SWtOR gambling crates and almost all the posts I found were either indifferent or excited about those crates, I could not find the same negativity that seems to be here.
As for user base, I googled "SWtOR user levels dropping?" and I found positive reviews, and the fact it added 2,000,000 more users to the game when it went F2P and used the crates to create revenue and still scored an 8.3 out of 10 on the review.
I am just not seeing the doom that you have pointed out as of yet.
Nobody will deny that F2P (not saying eso is going this way) adds a bunch of people. Some people can't or don't want to pay to play an MMO. Most of those that join up to check out the game leave after a short time. Those games are relying on "whales" to keep them afloat.They nerfed magsorcs so hard stamsorcs felt it,lol - Somber97866
I'm blown away by the utter stupidity I see here on the daily. - Wrekkedd2 -
summitxho✭✭✭
Notice how in every single one of these threads that not one person has come forward and said "Thank God for loot crates. They sure helped our game!" It's because everyone that has played a game that has introduced these stupid things has noticed a rapid decline in player base and game content/quality.
Actually, the reason why no one has said that is because we do not know, we do not see the numbers, we do not see the facts. We really have no idea the effect of loot crates on a game, there are way too many variables to know unless your the developer, which coincidentally keeps going down the same path to what you claim is doom for the game, and that's exactly the argument here.....
2 -
shadoza✭✭✭✭
Notice how in every single one of these threads that not one person has come forward and said "Thank God for loot crates. They sure helped our game!" It's because everyone that has played a game that has introduced these stupid things has noticed a rapid decline in player base and game content/quality.
Actually, the reason why no one has said that is because we do not know, we do not see the numbers, we do not see the facts. We really have no idea the effect of loot crates on a game, there are way too many variables to know unless your the developer, which coincidentally keeps going down the same path to what you claim is doom for the game, and that's exactly the argument here.....
I believe I have said in more than one thread/post, that I enjoy the loot crates in the games I played that sold them.
As far as the desire for loot crate items, is there not an entire business that is focused on receiving a monthly loot crate? I believe I viewed an article that reported that the company Loot Crate was one of the fastest growing start ups currently.0 -
krashwire_ESO✭✭✭Uck, I hate the gamble boxes. Even if it is just cosmetics, they are crappy implementation that just creates negative sentiment about the game.
If you want to sell us cosmetic stuff put a price on them and put them in the store. Don't go down the road of those retched random item boxes.
Even worse is when you have to see them in loot then pay for the privilege of opening them. Please ZOS don't give us useless loot that we have to pay to access.5 -
Kendaric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I also found some threads on SWtOR and its hypercrates, I would assume this is what the crown crates are being compared to? probably against the forum rules to post links to the forums, but I googled SWtOR gambling crates and almost all the posts I found were either indifferent or excited about those crates, I could not find the same negativity that seems to be here.
As for user base, I googled "SWtOR user levels dropping?" and I found positive reviews, and the fact it added 2,000,000 more users to the game when it went F2P and used the crates to create revenue and still scored an 8.3 out of 10 on the review.
This is also an excellent read as per Five Lessons Learned as SWtOR surrenders
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/08/01/five-lessons-learned-as-swtor-surrenders/#214a827b368e
there is no mention of the gambling crates however, but there is mention of the natural drop off in an MMO as per earlier
I am just not seeing the doom that you have pointed out as of yet.
While SWTOR cartel crates (hypercrates are just a pack of 25 crates) are indeed comparable to what ESO intends to implement, there is one key difference.
Everything from the crates is tradable via their auctionhouse. Every single item (with the exception of reputation tokens). Players have the choice, buy the crates and hope to get lucky or purchase the items they want for ingame money (usually lots of ingame money).
2 -
shadoza✭✭✭✭krashwire_ESO wrote: »Uck, I hate the gamble boxes. Even if it is just cosmetics, they are crappy implementation that just creates negative sentiment about the game.
If you want to sell us cosmetic stuff put a price on them and put them in the store. Don't go down the road of those retched random item boxes.
Even worse is when you have to see them in loot then pay for the privilege of opening them. Please ZOS don't give us useless loot that we have to pay to access.
As I understand it, ESO will not injected those keyed lock boxes into this game. These crates will be sold in the crown store. It will be optional so no one is forced to purchase them.0 -
JimT722✭✭✭✭✭
✭
ZOS said they wouldn't do a lot of things. I doubt crown crates are the only thing their newly hired expert in micro transactions is working on. I don't know where they will go from here, but nothing would surprise me.krashwire_ESO wrote: »Uck, I hate the gamble boxes. Even if it is just cosmetics, they are crappy implementation that just creates negative sentiment about the game.
If you want to sell us cosmetic stuff put a price on them and put them in the store. Don't go down the road of those retched random item boxes.
Even worse is when you have to see them in loot then pay for the privilege of opening them. Please ZOS don't give us useless loot that we have to pay to access.
As I understand it, ESO will not injected those keyed lock boxes into this game. These crates will be sold in the crown store. It will be optional so no one is forced to purchase them.
Edited by JimT722 on November 2, 2016 10:02PM2 -
BuddyAces✭✭✭✭✭
✭
ZOS said they wouldn't do a lot of things. I doubt crown crates are the only thing their newly hired expert in micro transactions is working on. I don't know where they will go from here, but nothing would surprise me.krashwire_ESO wrote: »Uck, I hate the gamble boxes. Even if it is just cosmetics, they are crappy implementation that just creates negative sentiment about the game.
If you want to sell us cosmetic stuff put a price on them and put them in the store. Don't go down the road of those retched random item boxes.
Even worse is when you have to see them in loot then pay for the privilege of opening them. Please ZOS don't give us useless loot that we have to pay to access.
As I understand it, ESO will not injected those keyed lock boxes into this game. These crates will be sold in the crown store. It will be optional so no one is forced to purchase them.
Pretty sure we know the road they are going. Remember, it's not the devs here, it's the guys sittin at the top of the pyramid making these choices.They nerfed magsorcs so hard stamsorcs felt it,lol - Somber97866
I'm blown away by the utter stupidity I see here on the daily. - Wrekkedd2 -
summitxho✭✭✭
Notice how in every single one of these threads that not one person has come forward and said "Thank God for loot crates. They sure helped our game!" It's because everyone that has played a game that has introduced these stupid things has noticed a rapid decline in player base and game content/quality.
Actually, the reason why no one has said that is because we do not know, we do not see the numbers, we do not see the facts. We really have no idea the effect of loot crates on a game, there are way too many variables to know unless your the developer, which coincidentally keeps going down the same path to what you claim is doom for the game, and that's exactly the argument here.....
I believe I have said in more than one thread/post, that I enjoy the loot crates in the games I played that sold them.
As far as the desire for loot crate items, is there not an entire business that is focused on receiving a monthly loot crate? I believe I viewed an article that reported that the company Loot Crate was one of the fastest growing start ups currently.
And I am sure I will enjoy them as well, finally something to spend my useless crowns on, I love a surprise at the end of the day. My joy is not going to come out of what I might get in these crates, just for the simple surprise of it, maybe I will get a rare item, in which case bonus, its a gimmick, and I am at peace with that. Its going to generate revenue, I am at peace with that also. What are they going to do with the revenue? Hopefully invest the bulk back into the game, that is still unknown
You are correct in that there are plenty of businesses that operate on a "grab bag" or "loot box experience" in many different avenues of business, I mean we all saw as a kid those "grab bag" items at the front counter did we not? Or those comic book boxes where you didnt know what comics you were getting, the idea has been around for a long time. A lot of people like a fun little unknown and that in itself is the appeal. I have crowns that I have never spent from my subscription, nothing yet has interested me, these loot boxes might though, and despite giving me nothing of real value, its more value than what I have been seeing currently by watching crowns accumulate with nothing to spend it on.Edited by summitxho on November 2, 2016 11:04PM1 -
shadoza✭✭✭✭
Notice how in every single one of these threads that not one person has come forward and said "Thank God for loot crates. They sure helped our game!" It's because everyone that has played a game that has introduced these stupid things has noticed a rapid decline in player base and game content/quality.
Actually, the reason why no one has said that is because we do not know, we do not see the numbers, we do not see the facts. We really have no idea the effect of loot crates on a game, there are way too many variables to know unless your the developer, which coincidentally keeps going down the same path to what you claim is doom for the game, and that's exactly the argument here.....
I believe I have said in more than one thread/post, that I enjoy the loot crates in the games I played that sold them.
As far as the desire for loot crate items, is there not an entire business that is focused on receiving a monthly loot crate? I believe I viewed an article that reported that the company Loot Crate was one of the fastest growing start ups currently.
And I am sure I will enjoy them as well, finally something to spend my useless crowns on, I love a surprise at the end of the day. My joy is not going to come out of what I might get in these crates, just for the simple surprise of it, maybe I will get a rare item, in which case bonus, its a gimmick, and I am at peace with that. Its going to generate revenue, I am at peace with that also. What are they going to do with the revenue? Hopefully invest the bulk back into the game, that is still unknown
You are correct in that there are plenty of businesses that operate on a "grab bag" or "loot box experience" in many different avenues of business, I mean we all saw as a kid those "grab bag" items at the front counter did we not? Or those comic book boxes where you didnt know what comics you were getting, the idea has been around for a long time. A lot of people like a fun little unknown and that in itself is the appeal. I have crowns that I have never spent from my subscription, nothing yet has interested me, these loot boxes might though, and despite giving me nothing of real value, its more value than what I have been seeing currently by watching crowns accumulate with nothing to spend it on.
Loot Crate is an actual company. /https://lootcrate.com/1 -
summitxho✭✭✭I also found some threads on SWtOR and its hypercrates, I would assume this is what the crown crates are being compared to? probably against the forum rules to post links to the forums, but I googled SWtOR gambling crates and almost all the posts I found were either indifferent or excited about those crates, I could not find the same negativity that seems to be here.
As for user base, I googled "SWtOR user levels dropping?" and I found positive reviews, and the fact it added 2,000,000 more users to the game when it went F2P and used the crates to create revenue and still scored an 8.3 out of 10 on the review.
This is also an excellent read as per Five Lessons Learned as SWtOR surrenders
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/08/01/five-lessons-learned-as-swtor-surrenders/#214a827b368e
there is no mention of the gambling crates however, but there is mention of the natural drop off in an MMO as per earlier
I am just not seeing the doom that you have pointed out as of yet.
While SWTOR cartel crates (hypercrates are just a pack of 25 crates) are indeed comparable to what ESO intends to implement, there is one key difference.
Everything from the crates is tradable via their auctionhouse. Every single item (with the exception of reputation tokens). Players have the choice, buy the crates and hope to get lucky or purchase the items they want for ingame money (usually lots of ingame money).
So is SWTOR an example of how crates are done right then? I thought this was an example of a game that was failing in large part to loot crates?
I am not saying they cannot be improved to make people happy, to the contrary, in other threads I was trying to enable a conversation in which we could discuss better ways to implement these crates as a community and try to make everyone happy while ZOS keeps this source of revenue, and all I was met with by most was arguments about how crates are bad and will always be bad, or worse yet thinly veiled insults about how stupid the people are that buy them by some, oh and also how we are somehow sheep from being in the minority on the forums of supporting them. I cannot state for everyone else, but my reasons stated earlier about what I would potential get out of them do not seem stupid to me.0 -
JimT722✭✭✭✭✭
✭I also found some threads on SWtOR and its hypercrates, I would assume this is what the crown crates are being compared to? probably against the forum rules to post links to the forums, but I googled SWtOR gambling crates and almost all the posts I found were either indifferent or excited about those crates, I could not find the same negativity that seems to be here.
As for user base, I googled "SWtOR user levels dropping?" and I found positive reviews, and the fact it added 2,000,000 more users to the game when it went F2P and used the crates to create revenue and still scored an 8.3 out of 10 on the review.
This is also an excellent read as per Five Lessons Learned as SWtOR surrenders
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/08/01/five-lessons-learned-as-swtor-surrenders/#214a827b368e
there is no mention of the gambling crates however, but there is mention of the natural drop off in an MMO as per earlier
I am just not seeing the doom that you have pointed out as of yet.
While SWTOR cartel crates (hypercrates are just a pack of 25 crates) are indeed comparable to what ESO intends to implement, there is one key difference.
Everything from the crates is tradable via their auctionhouse. Every single item (with the exception of reputation tokens). Players have the choice, buy the crates and hope to get lucky or purchase the items they want for ingame money (usually lots of ingame money).
So is SWTOR an example of how crates are done right then? I thought this was an example of a game that was failing in large part to loot crates?
I am not saying they cannot be improved to make people happy, to the contrary, in other threads I was trying to enable a conversation in which we could discuss better ways to implement these crates as a community and try to make everyone happy while ZOS keeps this source of revenue, and all I was met with by most was arguments about how crates are bad and will always be bad, or worse yet thinly veiled insults about how stupid the people are that buy them by some, oh and also how we are somehow sheep from being in the minority on the forums of supporting them. I cannot state for everyone else, but my reasons stated earlier about what I would potential get out of them do not seem stupid to me.
SWTOR crates still suck. They are just better than what we have here. As for discussing better ways of implementation, ZOS didn't take much feedback to heart when they were on pts, they likely won't now either.
An article I read about SWTOR said in 2016 profits have decreased slightly, and time people spend playing has declined significantly. That means people are paying a lot of money but few of the population plays regularly. That is for a f2p game that you don't have to purchase. Doesn't look promising to me.3 -
summitxho✭✭✭I also found some threads on SWtOR and its hypercrates, I would assume this is what the crown crates are being compared to? probably against the forum rules to post links to the forums, but I googled SWtOR gambling crates and almost all the posts I found were either indifferent or excited about those crates, I could not find the same negativity that seems to be here.
As for user base, I googled "SWtOR user levels dropping?" and I found positive reviews, and the fact it added 2,000,000 more users to the game when it went F2P and used the crates to create revenue and still scored an 8.3 out of 10 on the review.
This is also an excellent read as per Five Lessons Learned as SWtOR surrenders
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/08/01/five-lessons-learned-as-swtor-surrenders/#214a827b368e
there is no mention of the gambling crates however, but there is mention of the natural drop off in an MMO as per earlier
I am just not seeing the doom that you have pointed out as of yet.
While SWTOR cartel crates (hypercrates are just a pack of 25 crates) are indeed comparable to what ESO intends to implement, there is one key difference.
Everything from the crates is tradable via their auctionhouse. Every single item (with the exception of reputation tokens). Players have the choice, buy the crates and hope to get lucky or purchase the items they want for ingame money (usually lots of ingame money).
So is SWTOR an example of how crates are done right then? I thought this was an example of a game that was failing in large part to loot crates?
I am not saying they cannot be improved to make people happy, to the contrary, in other threads I was trying to enable a conversation in which we could discuss better ways to implement these crates as a community and try to make everyone happy while ZOS keeps this source of revenue, and all I was met with by most was arguments about how crates are bad and will always be bad, or worse yet thinly veiled insults about how stupid the people are that buy them by some, oh and also how we are somehow sheep from being in the minority on the forums of supporting them. I cannot state for everyone else, but my reasons stated earlier about what I would potential get out of them do not seem stupid to me.
SWTOR crates still suck. They are just better than what we have here. As for discussing better ways of implementation, ZOS didn't take much feedback to heart when they were on pts, they likely won't now either.
An article I read about SWTOR said in 2016 profits have decreased slightly, and time people spend playing has declined significantly. That means people are paying a lot of money but few of the population plays regularly. That is for a f2p game that you don't have to purchase. Doesn't look promising to me.
Lets be honest, there was quite a bit of anger in the PTS, I didnt read the whole thing, but I did not see much constructive discussion myself. I think if you had more people on board and did it in a proper adult oriented way, got some solid support behind it from all around, they would be much more inclined to listen to the fanbase, as it would be better represented by all, would you not agree? Another plus is at least its not such a divisive topic and working towards solutions rather than venting anger, in my opinion a divided toxic player base is also bad for a game.
as for SWTOR, ok the profits are declining, but is it due to crates? Is it due to other games? Is it due to technology? All of this must be weighed to get an accurate look into why a game is failing. Each MMO is going to have a shelf life, I would guess as a business they would have this discussion at some point, how many years do we see getting out of this game, that would also depend on various factors. How old is SWTOR at this point? It could simply be its time, and again loot crates were used as a way to milk it for what it can while it still has some players. Why is that less likely than loot crates destroyed the game?Edited by summitxho on November 3, 2016 12:09AM0 -
Kendaric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭While SWTOR cartel crates (hypercrates are just a pack of 25 crates) are indeed comparable to what ESO intends to implement, there is one key difference.
Everything from the crates is tradable via their auctionhouse. Every single item (with the exception of reputation tokens). Players have the choice, buy the crates and hope to get lucky or purchase the items they want for ingame money (usually lots of ingame money).
So is SWTOR an example of how crates are done right then? I thought this was an example of a game that was failing in large part to loot crates?
I am not saying they cannot be improved to make people happy, to the contrary, in other threads I was trying to enable a conversation in which we could discuss better ways to implement these crates as a community and try to make everyone happy while ZOS keeps this source of revenue, and all I was met with by most was arguments about how crates are bad and will always be bad, or worse yet thinly veiled insults about how stupid the people are that buy them by some, oh and also how we are somehow sheep from being in the minority on the forums of supporting them. I cannot state for everyone else, but my reasons stated earlier about what I would potential get out of them do not seem stupid to me.
No, the crates still suck badly. It's just a slightly better implementation, because the players have the freedom to choose how to get an item they want.
That freedom of choice is taken away by way they plan to introduce the scam crates in ESO. We can't buy the cosmetic items from them in the crown store or guild trader. The only way to get the items we want is to buy the crates and in the process risk of getting collectibles we do not want to have.3 -
Mandragora✭✭✭✭I was wrong - the previous discussion does look like a joke - compared this one (OP) which looks more like PR for c.crates
Strange is, that before all the negative discussions were locked, now these new "positive" are still here, scrolling the old big negative discussion down into oblivion.
And it happened after it was explained to someone, that there are not many negative discussion, because they are all locked if they would appear...
EDIT:
"post" was a wrong word - I meant the last wierd discussionEdited by Mandragora on November 3, 2016 1:49PMPAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!2 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭I do not understand the concept of Pay to Win in an MMO either. Since every player is playing their own story/game, how does someone else even beat you. If someone Pays-to-Win in an MMO, the only player they can hurt is themselves.
Even in a PvP situation, consider if Jon the Cat created a character this day, purchased an "insta-level" next day and is involve in a PvP match on the third day, how does that change anything? Other than bringing one more player into PvP.
You're judging p2w possibilites too lightly.
Don't think in terms of 'insta-level' tokens, think in terms of the most powerful gear, the most powerful consumables being cash shop only. Things that give you a huge combat advantage in terms of stats. That's p2w.
I still wonder: How is that play-to-win? How does one player having the most powerful gear or consumables change how another player consumes the game?
In MMOs (at least those that are not co-operative based) a player can choose who they interact with. Are we concerned that powerful items will be presented outside out personal reach? Are we festering over the concept that someone might have something that we don't or cannot?
@shadoza
There's this thing.
It's called PVP.
People don't tend to take it very well when they get rolled over by a dual wielding credit card warrior in PVP.Edited by Dymence on November 3, 2016 1:38PM4 -
Solus✭✭✭✭I do not understand the concept of Pay to Win in an MMO either. Since every player is playing their own story/game, how does someone else even beat you. If someone Pays-to-Win in an MMO, the only player they can hurt is themselves.
Even in a PvP situation, consider if Jon the Cat created a character this day, purchased an "insta-level" next day and is involve in a PvP match on the third day, how does that change anything? Other than bringing one more player into PvP.
You're judging p2w possibilites too lightly.
Don't think in terms of 'insta-level' tokens, think in terms of the most powerful gear, the most powerful consumables being cash shop only. Things that give you a huge combat advantage in terms of stats. That's p2w.
I still wonder: How is that play-to-win? How does one player having the most powerful gear or consumables change how another player consumes the game?
In MMOs (at least those that are not co-operative based) a player can choose who they interact with. Are we concerned that powerful items will be presented outside out personal reach? Are we festering over the concept that someone might have something that we don't or cannot?
@shadoza
There's this thing.
It's called PVP.
People don't tend to take it very well when they get rolled over by a dual wielding credit card warrior in PVP.
hey... why does it have to be dual wielding >.>
The-Pumpkin-King // Stamblade
https://www.twitch.tv/beenerschnitzel
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
My PC: http://pcpartpicker.com/b/GGWXsY0 -
summitxho✭✭✭While SWTOR cartel crates (hypercrates are just a pack of 25 crates) are indeed comparable to what ESO intends to implement, there is one key difference.
Everything from the crates is tradable via their auctionhouse. Every single item (with the exception of reputation tokens). Players have the choice, buy the crates and hope to get lucky or purchase the items they want for ingame money (usually lots of ingame money).
So is SWTOR an example of how crates are done right then? I thought this was an example of a game that was failing in large part to loot crates?
I am not saying they cannot be improved to make people happy, to the contrary, in other threads I was trying to enable a conversation in which we could discuss better ways to implement these crates as a community and try to make everyone happy while ZOS keeps this source of revenue, and all I was met with by most was arguments about how crates are bad and will always be bad, or worse yet thinly veiled insults about how stupid the people are that buy them by some, oh and also how we are somehow sheep from being in the minority on the forums of supporting them. I cannot state for everyone else, but my reasons stated earlier about what I would potential get out of them do not seem stupid to me.
No, the crates still suck badly. It's just a slightly better implementation, because the players have the freedom to choose how to get an item they want.
That freedom of choice is taken away by way they plan to introduce the scam crates in ESO. We can't buy the cosmetic items from them in the crown store or guild trader. The only way to get the items we want is to buy the crates and in the process risk of getting collectibles we do not want to have.
All I am saying is I asked for some games to compare ESO to so I could better understand your points, you gave me an example of a game which was supposed to help show me how these crates negatively effect the game and lost customer base and was a main factor in destroying the game. When I looked into it, I saw no evidence to back up your points and posted evidence to the contrary. Now your turning your argument from crown crates are going to destroy the game to they are not fair, I have said repeatedly I can see why some would feel they are not fair, and could be implemented better.
Guess we will just have to agree to disagree, I just can't bring myself to spend any more time arguing peoples opinions vs hard based facts. Makes no sense to me to some of these claims when you look at this as a business perspective. None. I will leave you all to your anger then, its just a shame, this could have been handled so much better not only by ZOS, but by us as a community.Edited by summitxho on November 3, 2016 4:50PM4 -
Kendaric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭All I am saying is I asked for some games to compare ESO to so I could better understand your points, you gave me an example of a game which was supposed to help show me how these crates negatively effect the game and lost customer base and was a main factor in destroying the game. When I looked into it, I saw no evidence to back up your points and posted evidence to the contrary. Now your turning your argument from crown crates are going to destroy the game to they are not fair, I have said repeatedly I can see why some would feel they are not fair, and could be implemented better.
Guess we will just have to agree to disagree, I just can't bring myself to spend any more time arguing peoples opinions vs hard based facts. Makes no sense to me to some of these claims when you look at this as a business perspective. None. I will leave you all to your anger then, its just a shame, this could have been handled so much better not only by ZOS, but by us as a community.
I never said the scam crates destroy MMORPGs, for me the issue has always been about the freedom to buy stuff directly.
If we're talking about SWTOR, then it should be noted that they added crates directly when the game went f2p. However, the crates' existence has a direct impact on development, as evidenced by the fact that the most elaborate armor/weapon designs were made crate-exclusive while the game itself has seen very few new armor/weapons designs.
Their subscriber numbers may have gone up again, which has nothing to do with the crates though, but with SWTOR's content and with the way they release said content.
2 -
MadLarkin✭✭✭✭
Notice how in every single one of these threads that not one person has come forward and said "Thank God for loot crates. They sure helped our game!" It's because everyone that has played a game that has introduced these stupid things has noticed a rapid decline in player base and game content/quality.
Actually, the reason why no one has said that is because we do not know, we do not see the numbers, we do not see the facts. We really have no idea the effect of loot crates on a game, there are way too many variables to know unless your the developer, which coincidentally keeps going down the same path to what you claim is doom for the game, and that's exactly the argument here.....
I believe I have said in more than one thread/post, that I enjoy the loot crates in the games I played that sold them.
As far as the desire for loot crate items, is there not an entire business that is focused on receiving a monthly loot crate? I believe I viewed an article that reported that the company Loot Crate was one of the fastest growing start ups currently.
Yes, but with Loot Crate, you know that you're receiving themed memorabilia each month. You also know its a grab bag of what you're going to get. AND, everyone gets the same items. I've also actually heard the quality his dipped significantly as of late.
With Crown Crates, the greatly desired items are, by design, supposed to be hard to obtain in order to squeeze more money out of the customer. This would be like if Loot Crate had an Elder Scrolls themed box, with one box in every thousand being filled with maps of Tamriel, figurines, clothing, and more, while the majority of the boxes comes with a refrigerator magnet and that's all. Would that seem fair? Would you pay for that loot crate multiple times? I sure wouldn't.4 -
Blackbird71✭✭✭I also found some threads on SWtOR and its hypercrates, I would assume this is what the crown crates are being compared to? probably against the forum rules to post links to the forums, but I googled SWtOR gambling crates and almost all the posts I found were either indifferent or excited about those crates, I could not find the same negativity that seems to be here.
As for user base, I googled "SWtOR user levels dropping?" and I found positive reviews, and the fact it added 2,000,000 more users to the game when it went F2P and used the crates to create revenue and still scored an 8.3 out of 10 on the review.
This is also an excellent read as per Five Lessons Learned as SWtOR surrenders
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/08/01/five-lessons-learned-as-swtor-surrenders/#214a827b368e
there is no mention of the gambling crates however, but there is mention of the natural drop off in an MMO as per earlier
I am just not seeing the doom that you have pointed out as of yet.
As someone who came to ESO after having left SWtOR, I can state that what you seem to have found is definitely not representative of the game/playerbase as a whole (or at least was not at the time I left last year). At that time, SWtOR was releasing monthly "chapters", but there was a growing dissatisfaction with the quality of these mini-content packs, as well as the quality of the overall game. With each month's release, new bugs and other issues were introduced. Meanwhile, old bugs were going unaddressed, with game-killing issues still a problem a year or more after they were first encountered and reported. Each month, the game would plow ahead with a new release, with little to no apparent QA, and the bugs would roll out and add on to the pile. Every once in a while you would hear about a token bugfix for some minor issue or another, but the vast bulk just grew and grew.
Meanwhile, there were the random loot crates - all the time the quality of the game was in decline, more and more useful/desirable items were being put into the loot crates. Then, the rarity of these items was increased dramatically. Also, the structure of the loot crates (in terms of what they contained and could drop) was adjusted so that there was even less of a chance to get items belonging to that particular crate's theme, in exchange for recycling old items from past crates.
I can't offer evidence to support it, but there was a general feeling among the players that Bioware/EA had been pulling people off of content development/bugfixing and putting them onto item development for the loot crates. Since it shouldn't take nearly as many developers to generate loot crate content, it is conceivable that they may have also downsized the development staff in order to cut costs. Again, there was no hard evidence of this, but these were the general suppositions made by the players in response to observations on the continual decline in quality of the game and corresponding focus on and restructuring of random loot crates.
It was this overall decline and blatant cash grab that finally drove me away from SWtOR. I was MMO-less for a time, until a relative pointed me towards ESO. I came here and enjoyed it for some time, but now that I see ESO is going in a similar direction as SWtOR, I am quite apprehensive about the future of this game. As they say, "once bitten, twice shy".
As another piece of trivia, around the same time that the SWtOR loot crate changes reached their peak of awfulness, and the overall game decline was at its sharpest, they also implemented a game-wide level scaling system "to make old content relevant again". It could be a coincidence, or it could be another sign of a game trying to capitalize on its resources with minimal investment. I'm not saying that in and of itself is a bad thing, but it taken in context of everything else it could be one more indicator of a game desperate to increase revenue and cut costs.
Here are a few links turned up in a quick search (hint: when looking for info on SWtOR, use "cartel packs" in place of "loot crates" or "RNG boxes"):
http://massivelyop.com/2016/02/23/hyperspace-beacon-an-open-letter-to-the-creators-of-the-swtor-cartel-packs/
https://www.reddit.com/r/swtor/comments/4qak8m/psa_new_packs_contain_less_and_cost_more/
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=890511
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=870240
2 -
BuddyAces✭✭✭✭✭
✭Blackbird71 wrote: »I also found some threads on SWtOR and its hypercrates, I would assume this is what the crown crates are being compared to? probably against the forum rules to post links to the forums, but I googled SWtOR gambling crates and almost all the posts I found were either indifferent or excited about those crates, I could not find the same negativity that seems to be here.
As for user base, I googled "SWtOR user levels dropping?" and I found positive reviews, and the fact it added 2,000,000 more users to the game when it went F2P and used the crates to create revenue and still scored an 8.3 out of 10 on the review.
This is also an excellent read as per Five Lessons Learned as SWtOR surrenders
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/08/01/five-lessons-learned-as-swtor-surrenders/#214a827b368e
there is no mention of the gambling crates however, but there is mention of the natural drop off in an MMO as per earlier
I am just not seeing the doom that you have pointed out as of yet.
As someone who came to ESO after having left SWtOR, I can state that what you seem to have found is definitely not representative of the game/playerbase as a whole (or at least was not at the time I left last year). At that time, SWtOR was releasing monthly "chapters", but there was a growing dissatisfaction with the quality of these mini-content packs, as well as the quality of the overall game. With each month's release, new bugs and other issues were introduced. Meanwhile, old bugs were going unaddressed, with game-killing issues still a problem a year or more after they were first encountered and reported. Each month, the game would plow ahead with a new release, with little to no apparent QA, and the bugs would roll out and add on to the pile. Every once in a while you would hear about a token bugfix for some minor issue or another, but the vast bulk just grew and grew.
Meanwhile, there were the random loot crates - all the time the quality of the game was in decline, more and more useful/desirable items were being put into the loot crates. Then, the rarity of these items was increased dramatically. Also, the structure of the loot crates (in terms of what they contained and could drop) was adjusted so that there was even less of a chance to get items belonging to that particular crate's theme, in exchange for recycling old items from past crates.
I can't offer evidence to support it, but there was a general feeling among the players that Bioware/EA had been pulling people off of content development/bugfixing and putting them onto item development for the loot crates. Since it shouldn't take nearly as many developers to generate loot crate content, it is conceivable that they may have also downsized the development staff in order to cut costs. Again, there was no hard evidence of this, but these were the general suppositions made by the players in response to observations on the continual decline in quality of the game and corresponding focus on and restructuring of random loot crates.
It was this overall decline and blatant cash grab that finally drove me away from SWtOR. I was MMO-less for a time, until a relative pointed me towards ESO. I came here and enjoyed it for some time, but now that I see ESO is going in a similar direction as SWtOR, I am quite apprehensive about the future of this game. As they say, "once bitten, twice shy".
As another piece of trivia, around the same time that the SWtOR loot crate changes reached their peak of awfulness, and the overall game decline was at its sharpest, they also implemented a game-wide level scaling system "to make old content relevant again". It could be a coincidence, or it could be another sign of a game trying to capitalize on its resources with minimal investment. I'm not saying that in and of itself is a bad thing, but it taken in context of everything else it could be one more indicator of a game desperate to increase revenue and cut costs.
Here are a few links turned up in a quick search (hint: when looking for info on SWtOR, use "cartel packs" in place of "loot crates" or "RNG boxes"):
http://massivelyop.com/2016/02/23/hyperspace-beacon-an-open-letter-to-the-creators-of-the-swtor-cartel-packs/
https://www.reddit.com/r/swtor/comments/4qak8m/psa_new_packs_contain_less_and_cost_more/
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=890511
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=870240
Ty for that post. People who haven't seen this crap added just don't understand it. They want links and proof. How do you prove that while the game you were playing took a massive nose dive in player base and content quality? You just had to be there to witness it. You watch entire guilds disappear in a month. Your friends list diminish to nothing in no time. Yes, we all know, people come and go with MMOs. We're talking about a noticeable difference in game while it's happening.
Take for instance this game. Let's say crates are added today and in a years time the game has lost half of it's player base or better. Half of the half that is left aren't even subscribers. Content is released way less than it is now and the quality of it is half as good as it use to be. This is why people leave in droves after it happens.
Now take in a year or 2 after this fact and we're all playing a new MMO that comes and decides some time later that it wants to add crates. You were here, you seen it happen, heard all your friends and guildies cry about the crates and watch them leave because content sucks and crates are good yadda yadda yadda. So now you're on a new MMO forum trying to warn people what will happen and someone wants proof....They nerfed magsorcs so hard stamsorcs felt it,lol - Somber97866
I'm blown away by the utter stupidity I see here on the daily. - Wrekkedd3 -
summitxho✭✭✭And we will see with ESO wont we? Looks like I will get my proof one way or another.... I will laugh, and laugh hard at all the drama in here circle jerking each other, if I am wrong I will admit it. Bring on the crown crates
Have a good one guys.3 -
shadoza✭✭✭✭Blackbird71 wrote: »...I can't offer evidence to support it, but there was a general feeling among the players that Bioware/EA had been pulling people off of content development/bugfixing and putting them onto item development for the loot crates. Since it shouldn't take nearly as many developers to generate loot crate content, it is conceivable that they may have also downsized the development staff in order to cut costs. Again, there was no hard evidence of this, but these were the general suppositions made by the players in response to observations on the continual decline in quality of the game and corresponding focus on and restructuring of random loot crates.
EA has some serious management issues in the high levels. The Sims franchise have suffered in development and bug fixing as well and it does not have loot crates.
0 -
Abeille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Blackbird71 wrote: »...I can't offer evidence to support it, but there was a general feeling among the players that Bioware/EA had been pulling people off of content development/bugfixing and putting them onto item development for the loot crates. Since it shouldn't take nearly as many developers to generate loot crate content, it is conceivable that they may have also downsized the development staff in order to cut costs. Again, there was no hard evidence of this, but these were the general suppositions made by the players in response to observations on the continual decline in quality of the game and corresponding focus on and restructuring of random loot crates.
EA has some serious management issues in the high levels. The Sims franchise have suffered in development and bug fixing as well and it does not have loot crates.
The Sims franchise is not by any stretch of logic comparable to a MMO. It is a single player franchise with a thriving modding community that easily ignores stuff in the store and in stuff packs in favor of the custom content made by the community, with a fanbase that is radically different from most games. That's not the case with your average MMO.
The Sims franchise went all well and nicely up to The Sims 3. Bugs? Yes, but not more than any Bethesda single player game. But they tried to make The Sims 4 an online game at first. Google "Project Olympus".
A couple of years before the planned release (which end up delayed a couple of times), the whole concept was scrapped and the game was remade into something more faithful to the franchise, but with a concept closer to a time management game than an actual simulation game. However, with much less time to make the game than they originally had, a lot of things that players consider important to the game was left out. The game released without pools (added through a free patch later), toddlers (never added and probably never will be, if the interviews are any indication of it), color wheel and open world (engine doesn't even support it), it had simplified maps (colored later but still very simple), no possibility of making new neighborhoods, no family trees (added later through a free patch)... It was more bare bones than the base games of the franchise usually are, much more.
The problems The Sims franchise had were completely unrelated to the way the game was monetized. It was really an idea that didn't take into consideration that Simmers are NOT your average gamers, they are a completely different demographic that won't be pleased by the same thing that gamers in general will. Yes I was there too, which is why I can say that the problems with The Sims franchise are completely different and can not be compared to the problems with the MMOs where I saw the development's focus shift happen after the change of business model to F2P + RNG boxes.
What happened to The Sims 4 is completely different than what happened to all the MMOs in The Lady's list. Look, I don't blame you for not believing us. This is the kind of thing that you would have to be there to understand, I guess. I really just ask you to pay attention to what is happening.
Here's why you won't find many negative threads about the effects of these boxes in one MMO specifically nowadays, although you can find older threads and articles on it: Because the fanbase was replaced by younger, inexperienced people who always had the crates and find them to be an absolutely fine thing to have in a MMO, especially after the F2P transition happens. People who have very little experience with this kind of thing in the past and find it all very normal are the players the company wants. That's who they are going to cater to. Slowly, the fanbase will be replaced; the people who know what this kind of scam does to the game will jump ship, the people who don't will stay/come to the game and stay until they find out - and then be replace by more players who have no experience with them, because there is no shortage of new MMO players (and then there are the poor sods like me who will stay because of the lore and watch the game degrading).
Honestly, I explained everything I could to you. Unfortunately, I can't do much more than this - explain, explain and explain. You know when someone tells you a funny story that happened to them and you don't find it funny, and they say "I guess you had to be there"? It's the case here. The best you can do to understand is to read about it in gaming sites, really, but I doubt you will believe them either.Edited by Abeille on November 4, 2016 12:49AMJust so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.
Meet my characters:Command: Do the thing.
Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.0 -
shadoza✭✭✭✭Blackbird71 wrote: »...I can't offer evidence to support it, but there was a general feeling among the players that Bioware/EA had been pulling people off of content development/bugfixing and putting them onto item development for the loot crates. Since it shouldn't take nearly as many developers to generate loot crate content, it is conceivable that they may have also downsized the development staff in order to cut costs. Again, there was no hard evidence of this, but these were the general suppositions made by the players in response to observations on the continual decline in quality of the game and corresponding focus on and restructuring of random loot crates.
EA has some serious management issues in the high levels. The Sims franchise have suffered in development and bug fixing as well and it does not have loot crates.
The Sims franchise is not by any stretch of logic comparable to a MMO. It is a single player franchise with a thriving modding community that easily ignores stuff in the store and in stuff packs in favor of the custom content made by the community, with a fanbase that is radically different from most games. That's not the case with your average MMO.
The Sims franchise went all well and nicely up to The Sims 3. Bugs? Yes, but not more than any Bethesda single player game. But they tried to make The Sims 4 an online game at first. Google "Project Olympus".
A couple of years before the planned release (which end up delayed a couple of times), the whole concept was scrapped and the game was remade into something more faithful to the franchise, but with a concept closer to a time management game than an actual simulation game. However, with much less time to make the game than they originally had, a lot of things that players consider important to the game was left out. The game released without pools (added through a free patch later), toddlers (never added and probably never will be, if the interviews are any indication of it), color wheel and open world (engine doesn't even support it), it had simplified maps (colored later but still very simple), no possibility of making new neighborhoods, no family trees (added later through a free patch)... It was more bare bones than the base games of the franchise usually are, much more.
The problems The Sims franchise had were completely unrelated to the way the game was monetized. It was really an idea that didn't take into consideration that Simmers are NOT your average gamers, they are a completely different demographic that won't be pleased by the same thing that gamers in general will. Yes I was there too, which is why I can say that the problems with The Sims franchise are completely different and can not be compared to the problems with the MMOs where I saw the development's focus shift happen after the change of business model to F2P + RNG boxes.
What happened to The Sims 4 is completely different than what happened to all the MMOs in The Lady's list. Look, I don't blame you for not believing us. This is the kind of thing that you would have to be there to understand, I guess. I really just ask you to pay attention to what is happening.
Here's why you won't find many negative threads about the effects of these boxes in one MMO specifically nowadays, although you can find older threads and articles on it: Because the fanbase was replaced by younger, inexperienced people who always had the crates and find them to be an absolutely fine thing to have in a MMO, especially after the F2P transition happens. People who have very little experience with this kind of thing in the past and find it all very normal are the players the company wants. That's who they are going to cater to. Slowly, the fanbase will be replaced; the people who know what this kind of scam does to the game will jump ship, the people who don't will stay/come to the game and stay until they find out - and then be replace by more players who have no experience with them, because there is no shortage of new MMO players (and then there are the poor sods like me who will stay because of the lore and watch the game degrading).
Honestly, I explained everything I could to you. Unfortunately, I can't do much more than this - explain, explain and explain. You know when someone tells you a funny story that happened to them and you don't find it funny, and they say "I guess you had to be there"? It's the case here. The best you can do to understand is to read about it in gaming sites, really, but I doubt you will believe them either.
The reason I brought up the The Sims was to demonstrate that EA had issues beyond loot crates so maybe it is not the loot crate's fault that their games aren't as popular as they once were.
I am neither young nor inexperience in gaming or in MMOs. So, we can't really blame either.
I was there and I still do not view loot crates (those purchased in store) as an issue. I do not view them as a scam because I understand them for what they are.2 -
Abeille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Blackbird71 wrote: »...I can't offer evidence to support it, but there was a general feeling among the players that Bioware/EA had been pulling people off of content development/bugfixing and putting them onto item development for the loot crates. Since it shouldn't take nearly as many developers to generate loot crate content, it is conceivable that they may have also downsized the development staff in order to cut costs. Again, there was no hard evidence of this, but these were the general suppositions made by the players in response to observations on the continual decline in quality of the game and corresponding focus on and restructuring of random loot crates.
EA has some serious management issues in the high levels. The Sims franchise have suffered in development and bug fixing as well and it does not have loot crates.
The Sims franchise is not by any stretch of logic comparable to a MMO. It is a single player franchise with a thriving modding community that easily ignores stuff in the store and in stuff packs in favor of the custom content made by the community, with a fanbase that is radically different from most games. That's not the case with your average MMO.
The Sims franchise went all well and nicely up to The Sims 3. Bugs? Yes, but not more than any Bethesda single player game. But they tried to make The Sims 4 an online game at first. Google "Project Olympus".
A couple of years before the planned release (which end up delayed a couple of times), the whole concept was scrapped and the game was remade into something more faithful to the franchise, but with a concept closer to a time management game than an actual simulation game. However, with much less time to make the game than they originally had, a lot of things that players consider important to the game was left out. The game released without pools (added through a free patch later), toddlers (never added and probably never will be, if the interviews are any indication of it), color wheel and open world (engine doesn't even support it), it had simplified maps (colored later but still very simple), no possibility of making new neighborhoods, no family trees (added later through a free patch)... It was more bare bones than the base games of the franchise usually are, much more.
The problems The Sims franchise had were completely unrelated to the way the game was monetized. It was really an idea that didn't take into consideration that Simmers are NOT your average gamers, they are a completely different demographic that won't be pleased by the same thing that gamers in general will. Yes I was there too, which is why I can say that the problems with The Sims franchise are completely different and can not be compared to the problems with the MMOs where I saw the development's focus shift happen after the change of business model to F2P + RNG boxes.
What happened to The Sims 4 is completely different than what happened to all the MMOs in The Lady's list. Look, I don't blame you for not believing us. This is the kind of thing that you would have to be there to understand, I guess. I really just ask you to pay attention to what is happening.
Here's why you won't find many negative threads about the effects of these boxes in one MMO specifically nowadays, although you can find older threads and articles on it: Because the fanbase was replaced by younger, inexperienced people who always had the crates and find them to be an absolutely fine thing to have in a MMO, especially after the F2P transition happens. People who have very little experience with this kind of thing in the past and find it all very normal are the players the company wants. That's who they are going to cater to. Slowly, the fanbase will be replaced; the people who know what this kind of scam does to the game will jump ship, the people who don't will stay/come to the game and stay until they find out - and then be replace by more players who have no experience with them, because there is no shortage of new MMO players (and then there are the poor sods like me who will stay because of the lore and watch the game degrading).
Honestly, I explained everything I could to you. Unfortunately, I can't do much more than this - explain, explain and explain. You know when someone tells you a funny story that happened to them and you don't find it funny, and they say "I guess you had to be there"? It's the case here. The best you can do to understand is to read about it in gaming sites, really, but I doubt you will believe them either.
The reason I brought up the The Sims was to demonstrate that EA had issues beyond loot crates so maybe it is not the loot crate's fault that their games aren't as popular as they once were.
I am neither young nor inexperience in gaming or in MMOs. So, we can't really blame either.
I was there and I still do not view loot crates (those purchased in store) as an issue. I do not view them as a scam because I understand them for what they are.
Here is the thing, the issues that EA had the causes the problems with The Sims 4 are not the same issues that caused the problems with their other games. And that is fairly easy to see: The Sims 4 still puts out content at generally the same pace as before (they just released another expansion less than a week ago), while the MMOs presented as examples of The Lady's work do not. Their content release slowed down, and a lot (and population dropped eventually because of that, and the game's reputation was dragged through the mud, you know, the usual).
Now, why is The Sims 4 still putting out content at generally the same pace as before? Because that's where the money is for them, because of how their player base is. This isn't the case with MMOs that become Free to Play with RNG Boxes. The money, on this case, is on the boxes. That's where the investment goes. This is just business and it makes sense from a business standpoint, but it sucks for the players who play for content and not for opening random boxes, and for the health and longevity of the game.
The problems in the MMOs were caused by them being monetized in a bad way, and the boxes were part of that bad model. If you didn't notice that while playing them, and you did play them before and after the RNG boxes were introduced, then again I urge you to pay more attention to it this time.
You say you are not inexperienced in MMOs, but your posts show the opposite.Edited by Abeille on November 4, 2016 2:10AMJust so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.
Meet my characters:Command: Do the thing.
Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.0 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭The same gripe as all microtransactions in games have.
Players know they are purely there to milk the consumer for cash. Its always been this way, granted in such things you can get great stuff from them depending on the game but frankly they're one of the most venomous types of micro-transaction as its real cash for RNG items.
This is the main reason, when games do this its lazy and foolish, it'll work it always does..and of course they are a business they have to make money but that a side they should be setting the standard if they want their game to be great not join the industry marketing meta.
They need to find more innovative ways to entice the consumer to invest in the product not just put these cash grab crates up.
Mark my words it wont stay cosmetic forever; This is where the pay to win factor comes in.
Overtime they will start adding exclusive motiffs to them including polys and all sorts (some are probably in there already).
Eventually though they will want to entice them some more so they will try to sneak a weapon or a unique trait into the crates and then low and behold you have the worst P2W situation you could ever have. Cash crates are a very slippery slope to which publishers and developers can easily fall over and slide down, they need to be extremely careful.
As for exclusives well...do the math. If there are exclusives people will impulse buy like no tomorrow. Then there will be 100s of threads about how the crates are unfair and how that customer should get one because they want one. It will happen unfortunately. There isnt an MMO with cash crates that any of this hasnt happened in.Edited by xeNNNNN on November 4, 2016 2:21AMAh, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.2 -
Abeille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
No, because of the arguments use you have been using to disagree with me and your selective replies that avoid the explanations people give you. Have you ever been through a f2p transition in a MMO at all?Just so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.
Meet my characters:Command: Do the thing.
Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.2