BlanketFort wrote: »

azoriangaming wrote: »

ValkynSketha wrote: »

These that kick low lvl players are not elitists, they are bad players who want others to carry them.

this is your answer, most players with high cp just solo the normal stuff if they're farming for gear, yes the queue time should be removed because it's total unfair if you've gotta wait 15mins before you can queue again and more than likely have the same issue again with people who think there good and just assume you're not good just because you're on a low level toon.

IMHO normal dungeons are there people to level or learn the game because you could sneeze and everything would die in there with high cp toons.

But what would you call those players if not Elitists? Snobs? But that would just mean the same thing. IMO, they are elitist, whether or not they are good players.
My premise here is that not all High/max CP players are Elitists.
I don't believe that this thread is to attack and label every High CP toon as such, since, as posted by a couple of members here, not everyone is a snob.

i'd call them scrubs that aint even good enough to play vet version so they go and cause trouble for low level/cp players, I mean i know your feeling pal i'm leveling a stam sorc tank ready for pvp and i did nicp on it and the first thing i get when i enter is WHY ARE YOU HERE? I was level 20 i think, i kindly said i've max cp and i could do this with my eyes closed been tank/healing this since it was released in vet so drop the attitude, they soon changed their tune, this person who i will not name basically the whole dungeon stood there and used lightning staff heavy attack all the way through the dungeon and had over 400 cp it was totally laughable

I just came back to the game for 1T. Sounds like things have gotten pretty toxic since I first played at launch. I've been practicing "animation cancelling" all morning so I can start ticking off potential trouble sources that could get me yelled at by another player early on.

I'm in the minority that no-lifes games and can sit around reading forums and watching YT while still having time to play. Sounds like a not so friendly game for people who aren't able to do that. Kicked from low level dungeons? Guess I'll cross that off the stuff to do while leveling. Boo.

d0e1ow wrote: »

I just came back to the game for 1T. Sounds like things have gotten pretty toxic since I first played at launch. I've been practicing "animation cancelling" all morning so I can start ticking off potential trouble sources that could get me yelled at by another player early on.

I'm in the minority that no-lifes games and can sit around reading forums and watching YT while still having time to play. Sounds like a not so friendly game for people who aren't able to do that. Kicked from low level dungeons? Guess I'll cross that off the stuff to do while leveling. Boo.

It's a game and people will play as they choose one persons fun is another persons boot out of the group .

People are to easy to take offence these days yes it's annoying but there are plenty of like minded people out there for both sides of the coin.

I don't think it's elitists, to me it's typically people who want to be carried who do the kicking. (DLC dungeons are a little different, of course, especially because they are so long.)

The only time I ever got kicked, I was on my tank, level 28 at the time. The two players who kicked me were level 21 and 23, were stuck on the first boss, and had just lost their healer (he left right after I joined). I got kicked while I was using the portal to get to the first boss to reach them.

I did almost get kicked once on my main, CP400+ at the time, in Vaults of Madness, for being a Dragonknight healer. This was the group's first dungeon, and they had gone through two dps Dragonknights who had queued as healer to get in faster, and hadn't beaten the first mob pull. As soon as they realized that I was actually in chat they wanted my healing resume. I told them VoM was my favorite dungeon in the game, cast all the healing spells I had on my bar, and asked if they would need more than that. Discussion closed. (This run had a rocky start, but by the end they really picked up momentum and sailed through.)

Another run, I helped a lvl 16 and a CP130 tank who were stuck in White Gold Tower (first boss) for a few hours before I joined. The finder replaced the missing DPS with a lvl 43, and for most of the dungeon the lvl 16 was saying things like "I don't think this lvl 43 is a high enough level to do this dungeon" each time his own character died. The lvl 16 was on his highest level character; the lvl 43 was well versed in the mechanics and had clearly done WGT before. I taught the tank about taunts, and we made it through relatively intact, and only a single death on the Inhibitor to boot.

A PUG in Blackheart Haven, a lvl 23 who refused to eat food and queued as tank on his bow/staff build kept trying to vote to kick the level 16. The lvl 16 was listening to chat and trying to learn but could not use a mic; the lvl 23 was not in chat and did not care about anyone else. The CP500+ DPS and I carried both, and afterwards the lvl 16 thanked us for showing him the mechanics while the CP500+ was excited we had finished before his trials group that night so he didn't have to drop group.


If people get kicked from group finder before they even start, it's due to insecurity on the part of the people kicking. This is what my experience has shown me.

azoriangaming wrote: »

Agobi wrote: »

I just dont get it to be honest .. o.O

High CP doesn't equal skill or knowledge...it just means much xp gained during the times spent ingame...

So why is it the benchmark for "being good" ?

because the mentality of the min/max player, you've got 2 players equally as good as each other with the same gear but one has 561 cp and the other only has say 160 cp, so if the players are skilled equally, the one higher cp is better the player due to the extra stats they've got via the champion point system.

Ah...forgot about the possible statgains

Still ,if the high CP person is like me...and pick stuff at random in the cp menu with no idea whats good or bad...then many points still does little

I can understand kicking someone who has super bad deeps, doesn't obey the tactics, or hates on the other players in the group mid-dungeon, but not kicking solely based on the players level when you haven't even seen them perform yet. That's a pretty low thing to do.

Even then, if a player is doing the wrong thing/doesn't obey the mechanics, you still give them a chance by pointing out what's a better way for them to approach the fight etc.

Dungeon time penalty should be shortened/removed conditionally, especially for those who get kicked.

Well of course elitists kick people who they think will drag them down. How else will they be able to put the fact that they beat vMoL on their resume if people keep dragging them down?

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

I don't complain about lowbies in normal dungeons, or even low cp in vet dungeons. As long as you don't ruin the entire run for everyone, you're fine.

^This.^

... BUT ...

... why would high CP players choose normal mode for either farming or pledges?

Would be nice to hear the other side of the story.

If they already have the jewelery and monster helm but want set weapons or set armour faster, farming normal mode takes half the time. Everybody and their mother can upgrade a blue item to purple and gold if it's BiS

I've done exactly the same as the OP, I started a stam sorc just because of the witches festival exp boost. I got level 50 in no time at all but My main is cp 220 so hitting level cap wasn't a massive boost for me as it would others. Being a tank since I started the game it's all I've researched so the change to a damage dealer has be a breath of fresh air and one I'm enjoying maybe more than my main. The issue now for me though is I'm worried if I enter dungeons (normal or vet) I won't be doing enough damage or damage expected for the pugs in my group so I've stayed well clear and will do til I manage to farm sets or have enough traits to craft what I want

As a tank, a roll I've grown to know in and out, I would be booted from pug groups on a regular basis. Just like the OP it would be before the fight even starts so I'm saving myself wasted time. It's a real same but a reminder to me that when I hit CP cap, any lowbie who enters a dungeon with me can take as long as they want, the advantage of the gear at the end of the run will be more benifical to them than it will be to me..... Unless I get the drop I want of coarse but the RNG gods normally aren't watching over me

Curragraigue wrote: »

Hempyre wrote: »

Alright, I'll be the bad guy.

Clearly no one in this thread has had their pugged pledge agonisingly drawn out because of a low level player not being able to pull their own weight. Hmm? Riiight...

Maybe you in particular are a rock star on your lowby. Good for you. Couldn't be happier...
However, chances are, you're not geared, don't have the cp, light on skills and most importantly, don't know the conduct required for the group and or the mechanics.

I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the number of times, some undergeared lowbie has blown the fight by rushing past the tank , or drawing agro, and adds outside the circle of death, and they won't back off the attack or can't block, or roll dodge out of the big red circles.

This just put more strain on the healer to keep their low resists asses alive. Not to mention the tank having to re grab agro over and over. All so some lowby yahoo can go all Serious Sam like the rest of the group is his personal keep alive squad.

Oh, but wait. The rest of the group should be able to carry the lowby, right?

Why the *** should they keep your lowby stam/mana sponge ass alive? Yes, I like more work to make your game experience better. You need to keep up, not expect to be carried.

Not my job buddy.

I ran pledges on Friday, and just new, I mean really knew.. that the 140 something CP was gonna be a problem as soon as he whipped out his 2h sword... Sigh, this is gonna be a long boss fight... He didn't disappoint. Crit rushed past the tank, ran adds away from the group, overworked the healer and died excessively. Just being a general cockup, even after being told what to do.
Full hero mode.

All I wanted was my two *** keys...

I wish I had booted that guy from the start.

Now on an easy norm, weeeelll... Maybe, but once bitten, twice shy.

So ya, your 38 would get the Adios from me too.

Reread the opening post. Over CP cap and not his first rodeo. Hence wasn't given a chance was just kicked.

Reread my part about being undergeared. I don't care if he's full cp or not, rolling in at 38 means you're not geared. End of story, go find someone else to carry you. Even if this particular player was geared and all, that would be the exception, not the rule. So again, out you go. I don't bet long odds.

@BlanketFort reread the part about "not my job"

Honestly the level of entitlement in this thread is laughable. You want your lowbies run through pledges, then ask in your own guilds to get run through. I dont run pledges to spend bloody hours on them for your sake. I run them to get my keys and get the hell out. Simple. You want to cry "elitist" over that, well, be my guest. Ive run enough dungeons with lowbies to know i don't want to do it. You don't like that? Start your own groups then. I'll gladly not join them so you can be elite too.

I will admit that a lot of new and returned players have come back with 1T and there are a lot of people new to the group finder, Some are seeing some of the newer dungeons for the first time (especially non-vet versions of the old vet dungeons) and there seem to be a lot more people changing their role to show healer or tank to speed up getting into dungeons.

Every player of every level has every right to use group finder and we all have our reasons for using it. Some are running them for the first time, some are doing undaunted daily's, some are farming for gear, while some are just getting their daily random XP bonuses. What group finder does wrong is put lower level players in dungeons they cannot selectively queue for - as a level 15, you cannot queue for Tempest Island, but random dungeon finder might place you there.

While a lot of high CP players might be able to 1, 2 or 3 man normal dungeons, they are still entitled to use group finder as it is the only way for them to get their daily random dungeon bonus. I have no issue with this at all except to say that if the group finder puts a fourth in the group, do not kick them because you don't need them or don't want anyone slowing you down. You are choosing to use group finder whereas the other person may be relying on it as their only way of running a dungeon.

Until ZOS decide to modify the grouping tool, we all have to respect each others right to use it and show some courtesy and manners.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

MopeyHat wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

MopeyHat wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Once again, the only reason this happens is because people are vindicated in it. The One Tamriel scaling brought alot of it back because now suddenly we cant carry people through dungeons anymore.

It's totally possible to carry people through normals, at least. Don't think I've had a normal run in years that I had to give up on for something other than a) needing to leave for real life reasons or b) rest of the group dropping because a key role left and the queue's too long. Then again, I usually run tank or healer in randoms for fast queues.

There's just no rational reason to kick someone from a group at first sight of them. And if you're a geared, high-cp person - if you can't carry a few lowbies or you just want a fast run, should you really be jumping in the normal queue without some buddies?

Possible, yeah. Faster just to kick them if their the only non-CP player in the group.

And it's a lot faster if you just have a few friends, but I guess you're not making many.

Alot of assumptions being made here.

I actually do have a few friends I run and do pledges with, but when I do queue for random normal, I do it with the people that I'm set with unless one of them is being genuinely stupid on the level of 'light attacking and expecting that to cut it'.

What I -have- done, is kicked people who dont fit the bill who try to run Vet. And that's not really their fault. I've gone over many times how this game is bad about teaching people how to make effective characters, But I'd like to clear up any assumptions before people start calling me 'eliteist'.

The way you replied made it look like you would kick the only non-cp person in a normal dungeon at first sight, so perhaps you could understand my assumptions. Thanks for the clarification, though.