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So many tanking sets.. *drool*
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Baconfat79✭✭✭✭You don't have higher stats or more buffs. Major Resolve and Major Ward are available to you without wasting slots on Chudan. How are you not comprehending this? Jesus...2 -
WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭You have times when you have 27k defense, I don't. My build is mathematically better.
You haven't actually put forth any better helm or any kind of facts, just your "found on youtube" opinions. 50k hp, 33k defense and 20 dodge always, even when resources are drained thanks to siphoning strikes. Stop arguing about this you don't know enough to have an opinion.0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Shuffle will proc Tavas nearly on cool down, because of this it's BiS
Also, between blocking, cp, and resist you start getting finishing returns on DR and losing build efficiency0 -
WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shuffle will proc Tavas nearly on cool down, because of this it's BiS
Also, between blocking, cp, and resist you start getting finishing returns on DR and losing build efficiency
Lol god no, even at 100% proc rate you are gaining 130 ult a min, less than half of drain. Not to mention all the set bonuses are crap on it. How the hell are you dodging that much short of blinding them with meridia's, 20% dodge chance only works so often.
There are no diminishing returns on my defense bonuses they are all with the softcaps.Edited by WalksonGraves on October 24, 2016 9:45PM0 -
Baconfat79✭✭✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »You have times when you have 27k defense, I don't. My build is mathematically better.
No I don't. I keep Major Ward and Major Resolve up 100%, just like your Chudan set does. I really don't see how you aren't understanding this. Nothing about your build is mathematically better. I HAVE 100% UPTIME ON THE EXACT SAME BUFFS, while having the head and shoulder slots open for any other set that I choose.WalksonGraves wrote: »You haven't actually put forth any better helm or any kind of facts, just your "found on youtube" opinions. 50k hp, 33k defense and 20 dodge always, even when resources are drained thanks to siphoning strikes. Stop arguing about this you don't know enough to have an opinion.
I didn't find anything on youtube, and never said I did. My point is that you are using gear to obtain buffs that you already have access to, thus wasting those slots. I don't know how you can say I don't know enough...I clearly know more than you. Have you tanked endgame content? Nope. Have I? Yep. NOBODY ELSE USES CHUDAN. You are the only one who thinks it is BiS. You are wrong, plain and simple.
Edited by Baconfat79 on October 24, 2016 9:59PM3 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »Shuffle will proc Tavas nearly on cool down, because of this it's BiS
Also, between blocking, cp, and resist you start getting finishing returns on DR and losing build efficiency
Lol god no, even at 100% proc rate you are gaining 130 ult a min, less than half of drain. Not to mention all the set bonuses are crap on it. How the hell are you dodging that much short of blinding them with meridia's, 20% dodge chance only works so often.
There are no diminishing returns on my defense bonuses they are all with the softcaps.WalksonGraves wrote: »Shuffle will proc Tavas nearly on cool down, because of this it's BiS
Also, between blocking, cp, and resist you start getting finishing returns on DR and losing build efficiency
Lol god no, even at 100% proc rate you are gaining 130 ult a min, less than half of drain. Not to mention all the set bonuses are crap on it. How the hell are you dodging that much short of blinding them with meridia's, 20% dodge chance only works so often.
There are no diminishing returns on my defense bonuses they are all with the softcaps.
Actually Tavas and drain aren't mutually exclusive and 20% dodge chance is enough to generate more ulti than any other set in the game BY FAR.
Actually, there are diminishing returns when you stack block Passives + capped resists + CP
I'm sorry you don't fully understand the game mechanics, but there's MATH involved and numbers don't lie4 -
Baconfat79✭✭✭✭Finally, another rational person in this thread. I was starting to feel like I was taking crazy pills. OP is a special kind of stupid. I'm done with this thread.2
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actosh✭✭✭✭✭Only alternative to bloodspawn in my eyes is Lord Warden. 90%+ uptime. Benefical to the Group. Only reason for bloodspawn is the 15Ult.0
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WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭WalksonGraves wrote: »Shuffle will proc Tavas nearly on cool down, because of this it's BiS
Also, between blocking, cp, and resist you start getting finishing returns on DR and losing build efficiency
Lol god no, even at 100% proc rate you are gaining 130 ult a min, less than half of drain. Not to mention all the set bonuses are crap on it. How the hell are you dodging that much short of blinding them with meridia's, 20% dodge chance only works so often.
There are no diminishing returns on my defense bonuses they are all with the softcaps.WalksonGraves wrote: »Shuffle will proc Tavas nearly on cool down, because of this it's BiS
Also, between blocking, cp, and resist you start getting finishing returns on DR and losing build efficiency
Lol god no, even at 100% proc rate you are gaining 130 ult a min, less than half of drain. Not to mention all the set bonuses are crap on it. How the hell are you dodging that much short of blinding them with meridia's, 20% dodge chance only works so often.
There are no diminishing returns on my defense bonuses they are all with the softcaps.
Actually Tavas and drain aren't mutually exclusive and 20% dodge chance is enough to generate more ulti than any other set in the game BY FAR.
Actually, there are diminishing returns when you stack block Passives + capped resists + CP
I'm sorry you don't fully understand the game mechanics, but there's MATH involved and numbers don't lie
I understand the math just fine, clearly better than you if you think tavas is an option. It's not even the best set for generating ult and that minor gain doesn't outweigh using a real tanking set.0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »Shuffle will proc Tavas nearly on cool down, because of this it's BiS
Also, between blocking, cp, and resist you start getting finishing returns on DR and losing build efficiency
Lol god no, even at 100% proc rate you are gaining 130 ult a min, less than half of drain. Not to mention all the set bonuses are crap on it. How the hell are you dodging that much short of blinding them with meridia's, 20% dodge chance only works so often.
There are no diminishing returns on my defense bonuses they are all with the softcaps.WalksonGraves wrote: »Shuffle will proc Tavas nearly on cool down, because of this it's BiS
Also, between blocking, cp, and resist you start getting finishing returns on DR and losing build efficiency
Lol god no, even at 100% proc rate you are gaining 130 ult a min, less than half of drain. Not to mention all the set bonuses are crap on it. How the hell are you dodging that much short of blinding them with meridia's, 20% dodge chance only works so often.
There are no diminishing returns on my defense bonuses they are all with the softcaps.
Actually Tavas and drain aren't mutually exclusive and 20% dodge chance is enough to generate more ulti than any other set in the game BY FAR.
Actually, there are diminishing returns when you stack block Passives + capped resists + CP
I'm sorry you don't fully understand the game mechanics, but there's MATH involved and numbers don't lie
I understand the math just fine, clearly better than you if you think tavas is an option. It's not even the best set for generating ult and that minor gain doesn't outweigh using a real tanking set.
No. You most certainly do not.WalksonGraves wrote: »Actually 60/1.5= 40
40 × 17% = 6.8
That's 6.8 chance of 1 ult.
So 66.8 from shalk a min.
Ww is every 5 sec so 60/5 = 12
12 x 17% = 2
62 a min from ww
Tava's is totally useless as no one can perma roll forever so lets say its active 1/3 of the time.
45 ult.
Invigorating Drain
5 ult every second = 300
60×17% = 10
310 total.
So shalk + drain wins because WW isn't as consistent since its dependant on taking damage. As for durability, it's almost impossible to die in bolstering darkness and you can run it uninterrupted.
You are forgetting that extra ult is 1 per tick not a percentage.
This is wrong. You start well, with doing 60/1.5 then you just go off the rails. somehow you get back to 60 uli a minute after you do the math yourself, showing that it is, in fact only 40 ulti a minute. you still end up with only an average of 47 ulti from Shalk, with decisive.
then you go and misunderstand how decisive works, it is a chance on every time you gain an ulti point, not per proc and even if it did not work like this, werewolf hide would still better Shalk, because you get the ulti from minor heroism from heroic slash AND werewolf hide. so 47ish from shalk vs, 110ish from WW hide and heroic slash.
again, i don't know why you keep bringing up Invigorating Drain, i am doing the math from the set "shalk exoskeleton" compared to other sets and the skill heroic slash, which shalk exoskeleton is stealing the ulti gen from.
I don't know of any tank that is spamming Invigorating Drain every second for the duration of the fight, if I saw a tank doing that, that is a bad tank.
and there is this.WalksonGraves wrote: »Shuffle will proc Tavas nearly on cool down, because of this it's BiS
Also, between blocking, cp, and resist you start getting finishing returns on DR and losing build efficiency
Lol god no, even at 100% proc rate you are gaining 130 ult a min, less than half of drain. Not to mention all the set bonuses are crap on it. How the hell are you dodging that much short of blinding them with meridia's, 20% dodge chance only works so often.
There are no diminishing returns on my defense bonuses they are all with the softcaps.
Tavas is 9 ulti ever 3 seconds, so that is 60/3=20 then 9*20=180 not 130 ulti.
there are diminishing returns, if you actually understand how the math works with resists, read this https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-and-list-of-options-updated-for-a-third-time/p1 and educatate yourself.
I would like to point out as well, that since you are a vamp, you will always take more damage from fire, either 1.15, 1.20 or 1.25 depending on your Vampire stage. to me that is not good for a tank but people make it work.WalksonGraves wrote: »You have times when you have 27k defense, I don't. My build is mathematically better.
You haven't actually put forth any better helm or any kind of facts, just your "found on youtube" opinions. 50k hp, 33k defense and 20 dodge always, even when resources are drained thanks to siphoning strikes. Stop arguing about this you don't know enough to have an opinion.
50k health? that is waste, there is no reason to have more then 30K. how much stam and magic do you have? how much magic regen do you have?
on my build, i have 30k spell resit and 29k physical resist all the time (more than that most of the time because of the bloodspawn procs) becuase i keep up draconic armor ALL the time. it does more then Chudan, from the passives, IE the extra 12% healing received and such, so it is worth running besides the armor buff.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on October 24, 2016 11:59PM6 -
WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ok I messed up on my calcs for tavas, I was writing this on the subway. Still requires an unsupportable amount of blocking. 180 is good for a set but as I said there are more important things. Btw the fire dmg is more than cancelled by 30% dr under 50% hp and I've never died to anything but a one shot mechanic. Fire is rarely an issue in pve and even skoria is a joke as a vampire.
Lets get back to your math though. You have to be hit at least twice a second to have 100% uptime on tavas to dodge that often. Most bosses do not attack at that rate, so if there are no adds you are screwed.
Btw decisive "When you gain ultimate you have 17% chance to gain 1 additional ultimate"
So 1.5 seconds for 1
or 5 seconds for 1 with ww
or 1 per sec with tavas assuming that you can maintain it. Either way decisive is pretty meaningless.
Yeah you are right you haven't seen my tank before, that's doesn't mean it doesn't work.
Now that the shield ult lets me block while draining im basically immortal.
You don't need regen or stam or mana with siphoning strikes. I can't be brought down by resource draining, 1 light attack and I have enough to bubble and taunt. 50k hp is for all my hp scaling abilities. Incredible that you have to explain to people why health and defense benefits a tank. It's like all people understand is dps builds.
Btw you aren't getting any use out of anything above 33k so Bloodspawn only provides you with a bit of defense and that 15 ult.Edited by WalksonGraves on October 25, 2016 12:16AM0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »Ok I messed up on my calcs for tavas, I was writing this on the subway. Still requires an unsupportable amount of blocking. 180 is good for a set but as I said there are more important things. Btw the fire dmg is more than cancelled by 30% dr under 50% hp and I've never died to anything but a one shot mechanic. Fire is rarely an issue in pve and even skoria is a joke as a vampire.
Lets get back to your math though. You have to be hit at least twice a second to have 100% uptime on tavas to dodge that often. Most bosses do not attack at that rate, so if there are no adds you are screwed.
Yeah you are right you haven't seen my tank before, that's doesn't mean it doesn't work.
Now that the shield ult lets me block while draining im basically immortal.
That is not how it works. The extra damage is always there. It does not go away. You will always have more damage applyed to you from fire vs someone that is not a vamp. Seriously you need to read the damage mitigation thread that I posted.
My math is simply shalk vs tavas/heroic slash vs werewolf hide/heroic slash. Now you have stated in this thread you have stopped using shalk so. To be clear, for tavas to beat shalk, you only need to dodge an attack every 10 seconds.
As I have said before, that is the great thing about this game, you can make just about anything work but for passively gaining ulti, which is important because warhorn is so good you want it up all the time, you can not beat tavas.0 -
WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭Fire damage has never been an issue, with proper mitigation the extra damage isn't even noticeable.Edited by WalksonGraves on October 25, 2016 12:19AM0 -
The_Duke✭✭✭✭Not that I am religious but there is a verse in proberbs that fits this discussion perfectly.
"Never whisper wisdom to a fool for he will dispise you for your knowledge"
Lets let this Guy believe he is smarter then the rest of us while he gets booted from Vet trials. There is nothing to gain from this other than a few laughs.
The Duke
Stamplar
Guild leader of The Dukes. PS48 -
WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »Ok I messed up on my calcs for tavas, I was writing this on the subway. Still requires an unsupportable amount of blocking. 180 is good for a set but as I said there are more important things. Btw the fire dmg is more than cancelled by 30% dr under 50% hp and I've never died to anything but a one shot mechanic. Fire is rarely an issue in pve and even skoria is a joke as a vampire.
Lets get back to your math though. You have to be hit at least twice a second to have 100% uptime on tavas to dodge that often. Most bosses do not attack at that rate, so if there are no adds you are screwed.
Yeah you are right you haven't seen my tank before, that's doesn't mean it doesn't work.
Now that the shield ult lets me block while draining im basically immortal.
That is not how it works. The extra damage is always there. It does not go away. You will always have more damage applyed to you from fire vs someone that is not a vamp. Seriously you need to read the damage mitigation thread that I posted.
My math is simply shalk vs tavas/heroic slash vs werewolf hide/heroic slash. Now you have stated in this thread you have stopped using shalk so. To be clear, for tavas to beat shalk, you only need to dodge an attack every 10 seconds.
As I have said before, that is the great thing about this game, you can make just about anything work but for passively gaining ulti, which is important because warhorn is so good you want it up all the time, you can not beat tavas.
I stopped using shalk because I was generating more ult than I needed, tavas would work great since im already running mirage but I'm trying for Defending Warrior since the massive damage/self heal looks sexy with the new shield ult.
Anyways this got far too heated for a discussion about ult generation. The differences are fairly marginal in the long run. As for my immortality claim, it's pretty hard to kill 50khp, 33k def with dodge, block active AND healing 31% of missing hp per sec for 3. The game just isn't designed for it because that level of damage would instakill almost everyone. *** I can mistform while blocking.
I should also mention the nb/Argonian pot passives give 20 ult which I chug every 45 sec. prolonged healing pots.
Edited by WalksonGraves on October 25, 2016 3:15AM0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »Ok I messed up on my calcs for tavas, I was writing this on the subway. Still requires an unsupportable amount of blocking. 180 is good for a set but as I said there are more important things. Btw the fire dmg is more than cancelled by 30% dr under 50% hp and I've never died to anything but a one shot mechanic. Fire is rarely an issue in pve and even skoria is a joke as a vampire.
Lets get back to your math though. You have to be hit at least twice a second to have 100% uptime on tavas to dodge that often. Most bosses do not attack at that rate, so if there are no adds you are screwed.
Yeah you are right you haven't seen my tank before, that's doesn't mean it doesn't work.
Now that the shield ult lets me block while draining im basically immortal.
That is not how it works. The extra damage is always there. It does not go away. You will always have more damage applyed to you from fire vs someone that is not a vamp. Seriously you need to read the damage mitigation thread that I posted.
My math is simply shalk vs tavas/heroic slash vs werewolf hide/heroic slash. Now you have stated in this thread you have stopped using shalk so. To be clear, for tavas to beat shalk, you only need to dodge an attack every 10 seconds.
As I have said before, that is the great thing about this game, you can make just about anything work but for passively gaining ulti, which is important because warhorn is so good you want it up all the time, you can not beat tavas.
It's funny, he thinks the only job for a tank is to hold agro and spam invigorating drain...Not that I am religious but there is a verse in proberbs that fits this discussion perfectly.
"Never whisper wisdom to a fool for he will dispise you for your knowledge"
Lets let this Guy believe he is smarter then the rest of us while he gets booted from Vet trials. There is nothing to gain from this other than a few laughs.
Truth5 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »So Im confused, you think tanks shouldn't hold aggro or pop warhorn?
no he meant use other skills, like talons or chain to hold and pull mobs to the tank. now you are a nb tank, i dont know how you would do this. he also mean do this like buff the team with armor set, like ebony or alkosh, bebuff the mob or boss with things like minor maim and the major armor debuffs, or minor armor debuffs if you are temp. using things like an infused crusher enchant weapon to remove even more armor. being a tank is much then just surviving.
nbs are undoubtedly the best at generating ulti, cause of the catalyst passive and the ultimate soul harvest, that you have that actually generates ulti. but tanking is more then that as well, dks are simply the best as it stands right now.WalksonGraves wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »Ok I messed up on my calcs for tavas, I was writing this on the subway. Still requires an unsupportable amount of blocking. 180 is good for a set but as I said there are more important things. Btw the fire dmg is more than cancelled by 30% dr under 50% hp and I've never died to anything but a one shot mechanic. Fire is rarely an issue in pve and even skoria is a joke as a vampire.
Lets get back to your math though. You have to be hit at least twice a second to have 100% uptime on tavas to dodge that often. Most bosses do not attack at that rate, so if there are no adds you are screwed.
Yeah you are right you haven't seen my tank before, that's doesn't mean it doesn't work.
Now that the shield ult lets me block while draining im basically immortal.
That is not how it works. The extra damage is always there. It does not go away. You will always have more damage applyed to you from fire vs someone that is not a vamp. Seriously you need to read the damage mitigation thread that I posted.
My math is simply shalk vs tavas/heroic slash vs werewolf hide/heroic slash. Now you have stated in this thread you have stopped using shalk so. To be clear, for tavas to beat shalk, you only need to dodge an attack every 10 seconds.
As I have said before, that is the great thing about this game, you can make just about anything work but for passively gaining ulti, which is important because warhorn is so good you want it up all the time, you can not beat tavas.
I stopped using shalk because I was generating more ult than I needed, tavas would work great since im already running mirage but I'm trying for Defending Warrior since the massive damage/self heal looks sexy with the new shield ult.
Anyways this got far too heated for a discussion about ult generation. The differences are fairly marginal in the long run. As for my immortality claim, it's pretty hard to kill 50khp, 33k def with dodge, block active AND healing 31% of missing hp per sec for 3. The game just isn't designed for it because that level of damage would instakill almost everyone. *** I can mistform while blocking.
I should also mention the nb/Argonian pot passives give 20 ult which I chug every 45 sec. prolonged healing pots.
so why not go with a set like ebony, to further buff the group that you are in? instead of a set that only impacts yourself.
just to be clear again, this is a huge reason why i love this game, so many options, that you can do, especially for tanking.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on October 25, 2016 3:48AM0 -
Osteos✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »So Im confused, you think tanks shouldn't hold aggro or pop warhorn?
no he meant use other skills, like talons or chain to hold and pull mobs to the tank.now you are a nb tank, i dont know how you would do this. he also mean do this like buff the team with armor set, like ebony or alkosh, bebuff the mob or boss with things like minor maim and the major armor debuffs, or minor armor debuffs if you are temp. using things like an infused crusher enchant weapon to remove even more armor. being a tank is much then just surviving.
nbs are undoubtedly the best at generating ulti, cause of the catalyst passive and the ultimate soul harvest, that you have that actually generates ulti. but tanking is more then that as well, dks are simply the best as it stands right now.
I have a NB tank and I started using Swarm Mother it works really well.DAGGERFALL COVENANTNA PCFormer Vehemence MemberOnistka Valerius <> Artemis Renault <> Gonk gra-Ugrash <> Karietta <> Zercon at-Rusa <> Genevieve Renault <> Ktaka <> Brenlyn Renault0 -
WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ok first off the only thing dks can do that nb cant is pull, which isn't that useful. Either way it can be done via monster helm so you can swap it in for that one fight it matters in.
If they are far I can teleport, everything just follows once you taunt them.
So just so you know, I maim the boss via shades for 25 seconds a shot and bolstering darkness is a 30% def increase with heal that gives me an extra 60% for 18 (I think)seconds. So pretty useful in clutch situations.
As for ebony, 1k hp is garbage. Alemaxias mercy heals for like 4k aoe when hit. Ive considered running redistributor since im always overhealing and have 55% bonus healing.
Ideally I want Alemaxias and defending warrior, be an explosive fountain of health.
Right now I'm trying baharas curse and 7th legion.Edited by WalksonGraves on October 25, 2016 5:44AM0 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »Ok first off the only thing dks can do that nb cant is pull, which isn't that useful. Either way it can be done via monster helm so you can swap it in for that one fight it matters in.
If they are far I can teleport, everything just follows once you taunt them.
So just so you know, I maim the boss via shades for 25 seconds a shot and bolstering darkness is a 30% def increase with heal that gives me an extra 60% for 18 (I think)seconds. So pretty useful in clutch situations.
As for ebony, 1k hp is garbage. Alemaxias mercy heals for like 4k aoe when hit. Ive considered running redistributor since im always overhealing and have 55% bonus healing.
Ideally I want Alemaxias and defending warrior, be an explosive fountain of health.
Right now I'm trying baharas curse and 7th legion.
First off, it is Almalexia, not Alemaxias. Defending Warrior is crap. It will only help with clearing trash (and even then only a little as you should only get 2 procs of defending warrior per trash clear) which you really don't need help with anyway. You're giving up a 5 piece bonus that will only do 4k dmg/heal every 10 seconds in a solo target boss fight? No thanks. Almalexia is also poop. If there was a set with a 5piece bonus of add 1600 health regen to everyone in your group (best possible performance of Almalexia) NO ONE would use it. I don't think you will understand why 1600 health regen is bad though unfortunately, just like you don't see the value in Ebon armor hp bonus.
I'll take it you aren't doing trials, so you need to understand the role of a tank in vet dungeons is far from being a block spamming meat shield that sits there and just taunts. So many vet dungeons don't even need a tank at all, just a DPS with 25k+ HP and a taunt on their bar.
The thing to consider is that as long as it is working for you, that's cool. Play how you want.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points1 -
WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭You realize defending warrior heals you for the damage right? Getting 4k x the enemies around you hp every 10 seconds Is the highest self heal proc I've seen. I can't believe you think it's use is clearing trash, lol. 30% chance to heal everyone for 3k(closer to 5k for me) every 3rd time you are hit is obviously much better than 1k base hp. That hp bonus isn't even noticeable from ebony is pretty close to the worst set bonus in the game.Edited by WalksonGraves on October 26, 2016 2:46PM0 -
Autolycus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »Baconfat79 wrote: »I don't think that any of these are a valid replacement for the Ultimate-focused sets (Bloodspawn, Tava's, Potentates, Werewolf Hide, etc.) While the bonuses on the sets you listed are cool, none of them are going to be as helpful to the group as having better uptime on Warhorn. Warhorn is just way too good.
As a vampire all I really need is invigorating drain. Bloodspawn is lackluster now because shalk blows every ult generator away and the defense bonus is too uncommon to be useful. Warhorn regularly is great but your primary concern is survivability.
http://esoitem.uesp.net/itemLinkImage.php?itemid=7382&level=66&quality=5&version=12pts
SHALK EXOSKELETON is terrible buddy, Minor Heroism is something that you get from heroic slash, so you get that buff from an ability that you ought to be running anyways as a tank. nothing beats the set that Wlak mentioned. maybe for a mag dk, that does use the heroic slash for minor main.
survivability is easy to gain from other sources, other then hard capped armor resists. healing, shields and the like.
This is counterintuitive to NB tanking. NBs benefit most from Deep Slash, not Heroic, because of its inherent ability to proc Siphoning Attacks more reliably. Non-NB tanks use Heroic. For a NB tank (particularly one that builds properly as a magicka tank) Shalk is actually a strong contender for non-hardmode trials and all dungeons as a primary or secondary set.
NB tanks can and do use Heroic Slash. This is a choice by the player that trades sustain and CC for ultimate regen. There's nothing wrong with doing this, either. But your suggestion that all tanks should be using Heroic is inaccurate.Edited by Autolycus on October 26, 2016 3:53PM1 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »You realize defending warrior heals you for the damage right? Getting 4k x the enemies around you hp every 10 seconds Is the highest self heal proc I've seen. I can't believe you think it's use is clearing trash, lol. 30% chance to heal everyone for 3k(closer to 5k for me) every 3rd time you are hit is obviously much better than 1k base hp. That hp bonus isn't even noticeable from ebony is pretty close to the worst set bonus in the game.
If you really truly believe a 4k dmg/heal every 10 seconds is good, I guess there's nothing I can do to convince you otherwise. Almalexias gold tool tip is 2.5k heal so no matter what type of CP distribution you have, you aren't getting it to 5k. It is very clear from your bashing of Ebon that you have zero experience in a competitive trial environment. That 1k health is essential because it allows DPS in trials to 100% stack dmg and invest zero into health and gives them 17k HP which is the matter of life or death in many situations in trials.
If you wanted to make a healer/tank, I could maybe see using Almalexias in vet dungeons, but it still isn't worth giving up a whole set for. A 2.5k (3.2-3.5 with CP/buffs) 7m AOE ranged heal every 3 seconds is useless for so many reasons. Bunching up on the tank is a bad idea in many encounters and if you're heal/tanking already, your other heals are outclassing the heal from Almalexia so much that it isn't worth using.
You're stuck in this mindset that you need to be as tanky as possible when what you should really be doing is making yourself just as tanky as is necessary and devoting everything else to group buffs/debuffs, dps, group heals, or wahtever else you need to focus on. My tank runs with 27k HP and 28k armor/spell resist and I get by just fine while self healing entirely, 50% uptime on aggressive warhorn, and am capable of 10k single target DPS and 30k+ aoe dps.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points7 -
Autolycus✭✭✭✭✭
✭WalksonGraves wrote: »You realize defending warrior heals you for the damage right? Getting 4k x the enemies around you hp every 10 seconds Is the highest self heal proc I've seen. I can't believe you think it's use is clearing trash, lol. 30% chance to heal everyone for 3k(closer to 5k for me) every 3rd time you are hit is obviously much better than 1k base hp. That hp bonus isn't even noticeable from ebony is pretty close to the worst set bonus in the game.
If you really truly believe a 4k dmg/heal every 10 seconds is good, I guess there's nothing I can do to convince you otherwise. Almalexias gold tool tip is 2.5k heal so no matter what type of CP distribution you have, you aren't getting it to 5k. It is very clear from your bashing of Ebon that you have zero experience in a competitive trial environment. That 1k health is essential because it allows DPS in trials to 100% stack dmg and invest zero into health and gives them 17k HP which is the matter of life or death in many situations in trials.
If you wanted to make a healer/tank, I could maybe see using Almalexias in vet dungeons, but it still isn't worth giving up a whole set for. A 2.5k (3.2-3.5 with CP/buffs) 7m AOE ranged heal every 3 seconds is useless for so many reasons. Bunching up on the tank is a bad idea in many encounters and if you're heal/tanking already, your other heals are outclassing the heal from Almalexia so much that it isn't worth using.
You're stuck in this mindset that you need to be as tanky as possible when what you should really be doing is making yourself just as tanky as is necessary and devoting everything else to group buffs/debuffs, dps, group heals, or wahtever else you need to focus on. My tank runs with 27k HP and 28k armor/spell resist and I get by just fine while self healing entirely, 50% uptime on aggressive warhorn, and am capable of 10k single target DPS and 30k+ aoe dps.
I suggest that you consider spending your forum time elsewhere, rather than this thread (or this OP). I argued with him for days about the fundamentals of tanking and nuances for NB tanks. He is a troll, plain and simple. And you're right, he has zero experience tanking in a competitive environment.4 -
WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's not 4k heal, its 4k TIMES THE NUMBER OF ENEMIES. See the difference? That's an average of 8k - 60k heal every 10 sec.
1k is not going to save anyone, if your dps has zero points in health they have a crap build. Those 10 points missing stam aren't going to make a huge impact on your dps.Edited by WalksonGraves on October 26, 2016 4:48PM0 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »It's not 4k heal, its 4k TIMES THE NUMBER OF ENEMIES. See the difference? That's an average of 8k - 60k heal every 10 sec.
That's why I said it is only kinda good for trash... but honestly if you need a heal that big while clearing trash, you're doing something wrong. The other problem is it will only proc about once or twice per trash clear which really comes down to only one steel tornado from a DPS. You're basically adding terrible terrible DPS and a useless heal for no reason at all and giving up on useful sets to do so.WalksonGraves wrote: »1k is not going to save anyone, if your dps has zero points in health they have a crap build. Those 10 points missing stam aren't going to make a huge impact on your dps
LOLOLOL ok I am also now convinced that you are just trolling. Carry on WalksonGraves. I suggest you join a guild that does trials and try to enlighten them on how 1k HP won't save anyone and that the DPS should put more points into health so that you can run a set that heals you every 10 seconds or heals people within a 7m radius of you. Seriously try it.
Edited by Erock25 on October 26, 2016 5:06PMYou earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points3 -
WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭You realize 1k is nothing right? It's 10% of base hp, 1/4 of what your food bonus is.
Enjoy your eggshell dps.
It's better than "just for trash" since bosses almost always have adds and a massive heal every 10 seconds Is nothing to sneeze at. Less pressure on healing you the better the healer can keep dps up.Edited by WalksonGraves on October 26, 2016 5:14PM0 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »You realize 1k is nothing right? It's 10% of base hp, 1/4 of what your food bonus is.
Enjoy your eggshell dps.
Going from 16.2k HP to 17.3k HP is the line between life and death for MANY dmging abilities in trials.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points2 -
WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭WalksonGraves wrote: »You realize 1k is nothing right? It's 10% of base hp, 1/4 of what your food bonus is.
Enjoy your eggshell dps.
Going from 16.2k HP to 17.3k HP is the line between life and death for MANY dmging abilities in trials.
Take some points out of stam/mag. You don't need to be a glass cannon to dps and the dps gain is negligible from a few points.0