World boss loot mechanics hoses tanks

WalksonGraves · October 2016

So 4 boss death in a row I was unable to loot the corpse despite tanking it the entire time it was alive. Every time a bunch of stam sorcs roll through and aoe him down, I get xp and no loot. It seems like you need to have a higher percentage of the dps to count which screws over tanks pretty severely.

cjthibs · October 2016

If you tanked an entire boss and didn't do 3% of the damage I'd suggest you take a look at your build.

lolo_01b16_ESO · October 2016

You need to do damage equal to 3% of the boss hp to get loot. That should be doable, even as tank. If there are so many people that the boss dies in a few seconds, you don't need a pure tank build an can slot some damage skills aswell. Maybe dual wield on your off bar and then use dawnbreaker + a few times steel tornado.

WalksonGraves · October 2016

cjthibs wrote: »

If you tanked an entire boss and didn't do 3% of the damage I'd suggest you take a look at your build.

If you think tanks generate dps you need to rethink mmos entirely.

57k damage in 15 seconds when my highest hitting attack does 4k.

Uriel_Nocturne · October 2016

WalksonGraves wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

If you tanked an entire boss and didn't do 3% of the damage I'd suggest you take a look at your build.

If you think tanks generate dps you need to rethink mmos entirely.

You don't have to be a DPS-machine to do 3% of a WB's health... and thus get loot.

redspecter23 · October 2016

The problem isn't 3% of the damage. The problem is when there are more than 12 people present, only the "top 12" get loot. The way the calculation works, you can be top dps and earn loot. You can heal a bunch of damage and get loot, but no amount of taunting and blocking will bump you up into the top 12 that I know of.

If the op is in fact talking about a small group and not being able to deal enough damage, I'd suggest a slight respec into a bit of bursty damage skills for those fights. Just holding block and taunting won't be enough if extremely heavy dps crash the party.

cjthibs · October 2016

WalksonGraves wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

If you tanked an entire boss and didn't do 3% of the damage I'd suggest you take a look at your build.

If you think tanks generate dps you need to rethink mmos entirely.

This isn't most MMO's.
My DK tank has over 3k weapon damage with sword and shield and contributes to damage quite a bit while still doing his job controlling enemies.

WalksonGraves · October 2016

cjthibs wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

If you tanked an entire boss and didn't do 3% of the damage I'd suggest you take a look at your build.

If you think tanks generate dps you need to rethink mmos entirely.

This isn't most MMO's.
My DK tank has over 3k weapon damage with sword and shield and contributes to damage quite a bit while still doing his job controlling enemies.

Yeah what's your unbuffed defense and hp?

cjthibs · October 2016

WalksonGraves wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

If you tanked an entire boss and didn't do 3% of the damage I'd suggest you take a look at your build.

If you think tanks generate dps you need to rethink mmos entirely.

This isn't most MMO's.
My DK tank has over 3k weapon damage with sword and shield and contributes to damage quite a bit while still doing his job controlling enemies.

Yeah what's your unbuffed defense and hp?

Unbuffed HP is around 29k (don't have Undaunted 9 yet, so that'll go up even more.)
My resistances are in the high 20,000's.

I don't have access to the game right now to get exact numbers, but I'm plenty tough enough to finish (and have finished) all vet dungeons including WGT and ICP.

Haven't tried any trials on this guy just yet.

Currently running Dreugh King Slayer 5x, Knight-Errant's Mail 5x, and the Selene Helm set...just because I like ghost bears.

Iselin · October 2016

Why are you tanking a WB? Why not slot high DPS abilities for that fight and kite it like everyone else?

Do you know that there are many people who are not tanks soloing a lot of these bosses when no one else is around?

Whatever build gets you through Maelstrom Arena is what you should be using for those fights - not what you use to tank 4-man instances.

phreatophile · October 2016

The really heavily camped World Bosses and Dolmens like Bankorai for Spriggan's gear can be a problem for tanks.
Pretty hard for a tank to get 3% when 20 people are throwing everything they've got at the boss to make sure they aren't the one who gets nothing.

I only bring high DPS character farming in that situation.

On the other hand, in Hew's Bane where, it might take 10 minutes to get much help on a world boss, I like to bring a tank.
A long as I stay alive, the boss won't reset, so the rest of the players can respawn over and over if needed.

Solus · October 2016

3% of 1.8 million is 54,000. (assuming the WB has around that as most do)

Having said that, like stated above, you must be in the top 12 DPS-ers to get loot. I think they should bump this up threefold, as three factions now populate most maps. Thats just my opinion though. I have no problem getting loot, usually do 300-500k damage to the boss myself.

Sigtric · October 2016

The WB's don't need tanking like a pledge/group trial does. Sure, taunt and control aggro but otherwise go to town on DPSing it.

BigBragg · October 2016

Sure the mechanics could be looked at by Zeni, but do you think doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is the best plan of attack for right now?

(I do understand that RNG has ingrained a bit of a Pavlovian response in us for this masochistic type of behavior, but it isn't always applicable for the best results.)

dodgehopper_ESO · October 2016

redspecter23 wrote: »

The problem isn't 3% of the damage. The problem is when there are more than 12 people present, only the "top 12" get loot. The way the calculation works, you can be top dps and earn loot. You can heal a bunch of damage and get loot, but no amount of taunting and blocking will bump you up into the top 12 that I know of.

If the op is in fact talking about a small group and not being able to deal enough damage, I'd suggest a slight respec into a bit of bursty damage skills for those fights. Just holding block and taunting won't be enough if extremely heavy dps crash the party.

This is a very good point. The tank is a very specialized role, but the build doesn't get much payout beside some dungeons and trials. It means a lot more swapping of gear and is a general nuisance. I agree with the sentiment that it is ridiculous you can be BiS decked to the nines and get beaten on loot drops just because you're a tank. Something ought to be said for soaking damage as well as healing as well as keeping the boss tied up. Most games use damage as the only metric because its easy, and the stupidometer is a lot easier when pressing 1-2-3-1-2-3. I'm sorry but I get annoyed with the DPS players' mindset sometimes. While I do think as Tanks we have to consider swapping into higher damage gear, we still pay a price for speccing into Tank builds, and this is only going to get worse as this game pushes more and more into specialization. Something needs to be done. I'm also going to admit a good DPS knows how to maneuver while doing his (what I consider very boring) rotation. There's definitely a skill behind it, but not when you've got 60 people bombing a boss to death before it even displays on the screen. Lets get real here, tanks are getting screwed unfairly. At this stage of the game I would recommend anyone who wants to tank to start out as DPS til they have their CP160 Tanking gear ready to go (and always have a character available to DPS so you have something to grind with). This is a flawed system though when this kind of advice becomes more and more necessary.

Sigtric · October 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

The problem isn't 3% of the damage. The problem is when there are more than 12 people present, only the "top 12" get loot. The way the calculation works, you can be top dps and earn loot. You can heal a bunch of damage and get loot, but no amount of taunting and blocking will bump you up into the top 12 that I know of.

If the op is in fact talking about a small group and not being able to deal enough damage, I'd suggest a slight respec into a bit of bursty damage skills for those fights. Just holding block and taunting won't be enough if extremely heavy dps crash the party.

This is a very good point. The tank is a very specialized role, but the build doesn't get much payout beside some dungeons and trials. It means a lot more swapping of gear and is a general nuisance. I agree with the sentiment that it is ridiculous you can be BiS decked to the nines and get beaten on loot drops just because you're a tank. Something ought to be said for soaking damage as well as healing as well as keeping the boss tied up. Most games use damage as the only metric because its easy, and the stupidometer is a lot easier when pressing 1-2-3-1-2-3. I'm sorry but I get annoyed with the DPS players' mindset sometimes. While I do think as Tanks we have to consider swapping into higher damage gear, we still pay a price for speccing into Tank builds, and this is only going to get worse as this game pushes more and more into specialization. Something needs to be done. I'm also going to admit a good DPS knows how to maneuver while doing his (what I consider very boring) rotation. There's definitely a skill behind it, but not when you've got 60 people bombing a boss to death before it even displays on the screen. Lets get real here, tanks are getting screwed unfairly. At this stage of the game I would recommend anyone who wants to tank to start out as DPS til they have their CP160 Tanking gear ready to go (and always have a character available to DPS so you have something to grind with). This is a flawed system though when this kind of advice becomes more and more necessary.

While I do understand what you're saying, a little bit of changing of skills is going to be enough to get the needed DPS in a situation like this

My pledge tank only has to swap a few things on his bars to go from full blown tank to a tanky, good enough dps for a situation like explained in the OP.

Heck, for most fights in the pledge/vet pledge group I roll with, I can do the tank things needed and still contribute 5-6k dps with ease. That's going to be sufficient enough for most world boss credit unless it's just way too many people hitting it.

zyk · October 2016

WalksonGraves wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

If you tanked an entire boss and didn't do 3% of the damage I'd suggest you take a look at your build.

If you think tanks generate dps you need to rethink mmos entirely.

57k damage in 15 seconds when my highest hitting attack does 4k.

I think you need to re-think your tank for ESO. The vast majority of encounters do not require a build so tanky that it has no dps. It's not really a trinity game most of the time.

Iselin · October 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

The problem isn't 3% of the damage. The problem is when there are more than 12 people present, only the "top 12" get loot. The way the calculation works, you can be top dps and earn loot. You can heal a bunch of damage and get loot, but no amount of taunting and blocking will bump you up into the top 12 that I know of.

If the op is in fact talking about a small group and not being able to deal enough damage, I'd suggest a slight respec into a bit of bursty damage skills for those fights. Just holding block and taunting won't be enough if extremely heavy dps crash the party.

This is a very good point. The tank is a very specialized role, but the build doesn't get much payout beside some dungeons and trials. It means a lot more swapping of gear and is a general nuisance. I agree with the sentiment that it is ridiculous you can be BiS decked to the nines and get beaten on loot drops just because you're a tank. Something ought to be said for soaking damage as well as healing as well as keeping the boss tied up. Most games use damage as the only metric because its easy, and the stupidometer is a lot easier when pressing 1-2-3-1-2-3. I'm sorry but I get annoyed with the DPS players' mindset sometimes. While I do think as Tanks we have to consider swapping into higher damage gear, we still pay a price for speccing into Tank builds, and this is only going to get worse as this game pushes more and more into specialization. Something needs to be done. I'm also going to admit a good DPS knows how to maneuver while doing his (what I consider very boring) rotation. There's definitely a skill behind it, but not when you've got 60 people bombing a boss to death before it even displays on the screen. Lets get real here, tanks are getting screwed unfairly. At this stage of the game I would recommend anyone who wants to tank to start out as DPS til they have their CP160 Tanking gear ready to go (and always have a character available to DPS so you have something to grind with). This is a flawed system though when this kind of advice becomes more and more necessary.

"Tanks" don't exist in ESO - we're all just players playing with a system that easily allows us to switch to at least 2 if not all 3 of the roles provided we're flexible.

I can see someone who is low level and doesn't yet have enough skill points to have trained multiple roles and who decided to train tank skills and gear first, having a legitimate complaint about this. But anyone who is high enough level to have trained S&B + other weapon lines and heavy + either medium or light armor, who insists in doing all content as a tank and then complains about not doing enough damage in these impromptu mini-raids to get the loot is just being pig-headed.

If you're able to flex with the situation and decide not to do it, it's your own fault.

WalksonGraves · October 2016

BigBragg wrote: »

Sure the mechanics could be looked at by Zeni, but do you think doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is the best plan of attack for right now?

(I do understand that RNG has ingrained a bit of a Pavlovian response in us for this masochistic type of behavior, but it isn't always applicable for the best results.)

1

zyk wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

If you tanked an entire boss and didn't do 3% of the damage I'd suggest you take a look at your build.

If you think tanks generate dps you need to rethink mmos entirely.

57k damage in 15 seconds when my highest hitting attack does 4k.

I think you need to re-think your tank for ESO. The vast majority of encounters do not require a build so tanky that it has no dps. It's not really a trinity game most of the time.

Yeah I play games to min max, not to make *** hybrids. This is why half of the player base thinks everyone should dps at all times. Sure you can do a little damage at a huge cost to your build but it's counter productive.

cjthibs · October 2016

WalksonGraves wrote: »

BigBragg wrote: »

Sure the mechanics could be looked at by Zeni, but do you think doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is the best plan of attack for right now?

(I do understand that RNG has ingrained a bit of a Pavlovian response in us for this masochistic type of behavior, but it isn't always applicable for the best results.)

1

zyk wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

If you tanked an entire boss and didn't do 3% of the damage I'd suggest you take a look at your build.

If you think tanks generate dps you need to rethink mmos entirely.

57k damage in 15 seconds when my highest hitting attack does 4k.

I think you need to re-think your tank for ESO. The vast majority of encounters do not require a build so tanky that it has no dps. It's not really a trinity game most of the time.

Yeah I play games to min max, not to make *** hybrids. This is why half of the player base thinks everyone should dps at all times. Sure you can do a little damage at a huge cost to your build but it's counter productive.

Tanking isn't about min/maxing. It's about supporting a group.
To do so to the fullest you need to be able to control aggro, do damage and provide buffs/debuffs. Otherwise you're just a boring damage sponge who occasionally taunts stuff.

Iselin · October 2016

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Yeah I play games to min max, not to make *** hybrids. This is why half of the player base thinks everyone should dps at all times. Sure you can do a little damage at a huge cost to your build but it's counter productive.

So you're insisting that ESO adapt itself to you instead of you adapting your style to ESO... got it.

And BTW we're not talking about hybrid builds. We're talking about switching builds using different armor, different weapons, different skills that fit what you're trying to do.

A hybrid implies that you try to build a jack of all trades and always use that build. There's no need to do that here.

Teridaxus · October 2016

Since i craft and not farm sets...

did zos seriously added that stupid 12 people loot cap from molag bal to world bosses despite people complaining for months for the opposite?

MasterSpatula · October 2016

For those saying WBs don't need tanks, some of the World Bosses now have 25K attacks that, if they telegraph, I sure as hell never saw it. So yeah, a damage sponge is quite helpful at some of them.

bellanca6561n · October 2016

I agree with the author of this topic but I did as one person suggested and simply swapped out some gear and a weapon.

This was far worse for Dolman bosses which, until today's patch, were being vaporized before even hitting the ground.

When the tougher world bosses were first reinstated with Update 12, groups of three or four were doing them. And a tank was useful for that.

Now it's very large groups of skeleton clad locusts running shuttles between world bosses or between dolmens and nearby world bosses.

Best work around has been the fact that many form large groups that include anyone who cares to join. Rather than judge either this phenomenon or its participants I simply join in.....though not as a skeleton

Prof_Bawbag · October 2016

MasterSpatula wrote: »

For those saying WBs don't need tanks, some of the World Bosses now have 25K attacks that, if they telegraph, I sure as hell never saw it. So yeah, a damage sponge is quite helpful at some of them.

Yeah, people are talking as if they're all cake walks. Most are, but some aren't and those 'some' bosses hit like a freight train.

Osteos · October 2016

This has been a problem since IC dropped. Tanks should get a chance at loot. Also it is really nice to have a tank at the world bosses or even dailies.

Kammakazi · October 2016

What kind of tank are you?

It sounds like you just taunt one time, and hold block.

I think you should be doing a lot of heavy attack, ransack, bash combos. Throw in a Venomous Claw and Noxious Breath in there.

WalksonGraves · October 2016

Kammakazi wrote: »

What kind of tank are you?

It sounds like you just taunt one time, and hold block.

I think you should be doing a lot of heavy attack, ransack, bash combos. Throw in a Venomous Claw and Noxious Breath in there.

The boss is dead before my first taunt has worn off, even if I was a DK which im not there is no time. The point is I should not have to respec and gimp my build because ZOS thinks dps is a smart way to measure all classes.

cjthibs · October 2016

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Kammakazi wrote: »

What kind of tank are you?

It sounds like you just taunt one time, and hold block.

I think you should be doing a lot of heavy attack, ransack, bash combos. Throw in a Venomous Claw and Noxious Breath in there.

The boss is dead before my first taunt has worn off, even if I was a DK which im not there is no time. The point is I should not have to respec and gimp my build because ZOS thinks dps is a smart way to measure all classes.

Do you run sword and board on both bars?
...do you not have any sort of heavier attack slotted at all?
Do you not even try and help DPS when bosses are down to execute range?

Anyway, you asked for advice, it was given, you don't want to listen. Good luck with maxing resistances only and being relevant in any content other than dungeons.

WalksonGraves · October 2016

cjthibs wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Kammakazi wrote: »

What kind of tank are you?

It sounds like you just taunt one time, and hold block.

I think you should be doing a lot of heavy attack, ransack, bash combos. Throw in a Venomous Claw and Noxious Breath in there.

The boss is dead before my first taunt has worn off, even if I was a DK which im not there is no time. The point is I should not have to respec and gimp my build because ZOS thinks dps is a smart way to measure all classes.

Do you run sword and board on both bars?
...do you not have any sort of heavier attack slotted at all?
Do you not even try and help DPS when bosses are down to execute range?

Anyway, you asked for advice, it was given, you don't want to listen. Good luck with maxing resistances only and being relevant in any content other than dungeons.

There is no end game content other than dungeons. My front bar is tanking skills my back bar is buffs. My executes hit for 3k dmg it's hardly worth it. You realize half the party serves no purpose but dps, they don't need my attacks they need my Warhorn.

cjthibs · October 2016

WalksonGraves wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Kammakazi wrote: »

What kind of tank are you?

It sounds like you just taunt one time, and hold block.

I think you should be doing a lot of heavy attack, ransack, bash combos. Throw in a Venomous Claw and Noxious Breath in there.

The boss is dead before my first taunt has worn off, even if I was a DK which im not there is no time. The point is I should not have to respec and gimp my build because ZOS thinks dps is a smart way to measure all classes.

Do you run sword and board on both bars?
...do you not have any sort of heavier attack slotted at all?
Do you not even try and help DPS when bosses are down to execute range?

Anyway, you asked for advice, it was given, you don't want to listen. Good luck with maxing resistances only and being relevant in any content other than dungeons.

There is no end game content other than dungeons. My front bar is tanking skills my back bar is buffs. My executes hit for 3k dmg it's hardly worth it. You realize half the part serves no purpose but dps, they don't need my attacks they need my Warhorn.

Well, if you're satisfied with that, that's great.
I taunt, throw down my warhorn, and lay down DoT's and AoE's in dungeons. (AoE's also help control aggro if they do enough DPS.)

Are you one of those guys who taunts every single mob?

Also, there is other endgame content. PvP, Trials, vMA.
And actually...I can see the need to max resistances only in Trials...dungeons not so much.