So apparently the Stalhrim Motif is a CS exclusive?

Elsonso · October 2016

branstark wrote: »

They've given us a practically free motif in Hollowjack which looks incredible btw don't forget zenimax is a business they need to make money. Stop your sulking

Exactly. You are not spending enough.

Tryxus · October 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

branstark wrote: »

They've given us a practically free motif in Hollowjack which looks incredible btw don't forget zenimax is a business they need to make money. Stop your sulking

Exactly. You are not spending enough.

Actually, we weren't spending enough on Mimic Stones

Abeille · October 2016

Tryxus wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

branstark wrote: »

They've given us a practically free motif in Hollowjack which looks incredible btw don't forget zenimax is a business they need to make money. Stop your sulking

Exactly. You are not spending enough.

Actually, we weren't spending enough on Mimic Stones

Well, we would be if they could be used to change the appearance of existing items, akin to the Transmutation Charges in GW2 (that used to be Transmutation Stones).

Sotha_Sil · October 2016

Abeille wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

branstark wrote: »

They've given us a practically free motif in Hollowjack which looks incredible btw don't forget zenimax is a business they need to make money. Stop your sulking

Exactly. You are not spending enough.

Actually, we weren't spending enough on Mimic Stones

Well, we would be if they could be used to change the appearance of existing items, akin to the Transmutation Charges in GW2 (that used to be Transmutation Stones).

Actually when they first announced the mimic stones I thought it was trammutation stones. I was so disappointed after that. I still think they miss something by not making it possible in game because of the costume feature. Both features are not competing against another it's what they need to figure out.

Pandorii · October 2016

Mephilis78 wrote: »

Magicka_DK wrote: »

This is just sad if thats the case. Slowly adding more and more exclusives to the game when you promised things obtaining In CS would be obtainable in game. I am very close to quitting as I feel this game game slowly progress into a P2W game that requires me to pay $50 to enter cyrodil and month.

Edit: Learn to read never did I say this sas P2W I said I feel its slowly progressing there step by step. Wont be too long until Mats are sold in the store

How is a crown store exclusive motif pay to win? It's cosmetic and gives you literally no extra benefits. It's not like ZOS is selling OP gear sets for crowns...

I saw someone selling the grinstone style material on PS4 for 11k each. Imagine that you have 54 mimic stones from buying the motif. You craft 54 pieces of grim harlequin armor. You decon them. You get maybe 50 pieces of grinstone, and you sell those for 10k each. You just made 500k with 2200 crowns. This is how you can convert the style to money.

Osteos · October 2016

Pandorii wrote: »

Mephilis78 wrote: »

Magicka_DK wrote: »

This is just sad if thats the case. Slowly adding more and more exclusives to the game when you promised things obtaining In CS would be obtainable in game. I am very close to quitting as I feel this game game slowly progress into a P2W game that requires me to pay $50 to enter cyrodil and month.

Edit: Learn to read never did I say this sas P2W I said I feel its slowly progressing there step by step. Wont be too long until Mats are sold in the store

How is a crown store exclusive motif pay to win? It's cosmetic and gives you literally no extra benefits. It's not like ZOS is selling OP gear sets for crowns...

I saw someone selling the grinstone style material on PS4 for 11k each. Imagine that you have 54 mimic stones from buying the motif. You craft 54 pieces of grim harlequin armor. You decon them. You get maybe 50 pieces of grinstone, and you sell those for 10k each. You just made 500k with 2200 crowns. This is how you can convert the style to money.

So what? It still isnt p2w. Buying a grinstone gives you 0 advantage over another player and neither does selling one and have gold.

Abeille · October 2016

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

branstark wrote: »

They've given us a practically free motif in Hollowjack which looks incredible btw don't forget zenimax is a business they need to make money. Stop your sulking

Exactly. You are not spending enough.

Actually, we weren't spending enough on Mimic Stones

Well, we would be if they could be used to change the appearance of existing items, akin to the Transmutation Charges in GW2 (that used to be Transmutation Stones).

Actually when they first announced the mimic stones I thought it was trammutation stones. I was so disappointed after that. I still think they miss something by not making it possible in game because of the costume feature. Both features are not competing against another it's what they need to figure out.

Yeah, me too, which is why I still insist they should be used for that

Iluvrien · October 2016

Osteos wrote: »

Pandorii wrote: »

Mephilis78 wrote: »

Magicka_DK wrote: »

This is just sad if thats the case. Slowly adding more and more exclusives to the game when you promised things obtaining In CS would be obtainable in game. I am very close to quitting as I feel this game game slowly progress into a P2W game that requires me to pay $50 to enter cyrodil and month.

Edit: Learn to read never did I say this sas P2W I said I feel its slowly progressing there step by step. Wont be too long until Mats are sold in the store

How is a crown store exclusive motif pay to win? It's cosmetic and gives you literally no extra benefits. It's not like ZOS is selling OP gear sets for crowns...

I saw someone selling the grinstone style material on PS4 for 11k each. Imagine that you have 54 mimic stones from buying the motif. You craft 54 pieces of grim harlequin armor. You decon them. You get maybe 50 pieces of grinstone, and you sell those for 10k each. You just made 500k with 2200 crowns. This is how you can convert the style to money.

So what? It still isnt p2w. Buying a grinstone gives you 0 advantage over another player and neither does selling one and have gold.

So you are alleging that having gold offers a player "0 advantage" over not having any?

Interesting. I look forward to receiving the contents of your gold pouch as a proof of your point.

Cherryblossom · October 2016

Magicka_DK wrote: »

This is just sad if thats the case. Slowly adding more and more exclusives to the game when you promised things obtaining In CS would be obtainable in game. I am very close to quitting as I feel this game game slowly progress into a P2W game that requires me to pay $50 to enter cyrodil and month.

Edit: Learn to read never did I say this sas P2W I said I feel its slowly progressing there step by step. Wont be too long until Mats are sold in the store

Not quite sure how a Motif is P2W or on the way to P2W (yes, I read the post) you've not explained why it is.
There is nothing in the Crown Store you have buy to be competitive, in fact I wish they would put something in there I want to spend Crowns on.

Chickenstein · October 2016

Iluvrien wrote: »

So you are alleging that having gold offers a player "0 advantage" over not having any?

He didn't. He just said it's not P2W (which it isn't because P2W includes balance changing items, which neither gold nor motifs are).

serenity_painted · October 2016

It's a B2P game, this is normal. They need to make money and a motif is just cosmetic, you don't need it and it doesn't increase your performance. Infact both ZoS and Anet are very reasonable with their cash shops.
If you want to see a B2P game that screws it's customers go try Black Desert Online. Or any F2P game if you want to see P2W...

Iluvrien · October 2016

Chickenstein wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

So you are alleging that having gold offers a player "0 advantage" over not having any?

He didn't. He just said it's not P2W (which it isn't because P2W includes balance changing items, which neither gold nor motifs are).

Actually, he did. The logic he used to try and prove it wasn't P2W was that either having a grinstone or selling it and having gold would provide "0 advantage"... but let's set that aside for now.

Your assertion seems to be that the criterion for P2W is only met balance changing items. Am I getting that right? Would you define your position as one where anything short of actually selling gear in the Crown Store is acceptable to you?

arkansas_ESO · October 2016

Ashtaris wrote: »

Well so far I have not seen one credible link or source that tells me that the Stalhrim motif will be a crown store exclusive. Until I do, I'm not taking the OP's comments that seriously.

@Ashtaris They haven't confirmed that Stahlrim will be crown store only, but everybody testing the New Life Festival on PTS reported getting only Skinchanger pages from the New Life quests, not Stahlrim. We also only received a "Crown Motifs: Stahlrim Frostcaller" with our template characters, when every other motif was named like "Motif 1: Breton". It seems like ZOS wants one in-game motif (Hollowjack, Skinchanger) and one crown store motif (Grim Harlequinn, Stalhrim) per event.

You can see the PTS testers talking about it here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3357275/#Comment_3357275

Chickenstein · October 2016

Iluvrien wrote: »

Your assertion seems to be that the criterion for P2W is only met balance changing items. Am I getting that right? Would you define your position as one where anything short of actually selling gear in the Crown Store is acceptable to you?

I don't yet know if I have something as a "position" here really. At this point, I would put it the other way round; if you define gold (moreso, indirect gold as it is not sold directly on the CS) as P2W then any game would be P2W since you can buy gold (unofficially, albeit) for almost any game from dubious sources I guess.

Of course that changes balance since it enables a time/money exchange, but it's not anybody not paying couldn't attain - which, for me, would be the P2W criterion.

Nickernator · October 2016

Idk about this one, they gave us this new update for 100% free. If they also create some cosmetic stuff and place it in the crown store, I don't see a problem.

It would be a problem is they stop bringing updates and only add cosmetic stuff in the Crown Store.

olsborg wrote: »

Motif schmotif. 90% of the crafted sets are lackluster and outdated weakling sets. Why should I get any of the new motifs when the BiS for my kind playstyle is in the draugr motif. ZOS f-u on this one imo. Give crafters an option to change the motif of a dropped item..

And this please, since we can already change items to Imperial Style.. add the other styles too (If you know the motif for it)

Apherius · October 2016

not a very big problem for me ... as long as there have no achivement for learn CS motif , it's ok .
i will ask to some of my Guildmate who buy these CS motif ... to craft me some parts .BUT i think that the " Stone " for create these CS motif should be available !

Alucardo · October 2016

I don't always buy CS motifs
But when I do it'll be Stalhrim

OrphanHelgen · October 2016

You dont have to buy it, you know

Wow · October 2016

Consumers defending bad business practices of companies to justify their own purchases are worse than the companies that made bad business descisions in the first place.
Stop defending ZOS over the grim harlequin thing, they *** up, they are a big company they dont need your support or your petty downvoting of people that dont want to be screwed over.

This kind of thing pisses me off. You are the consumers, you are not the PR people of a company. Stop beeing unpaid shills and have some dignity.

Alucardo · October 2016

Wow wrote: »

Consumers defending bad business practices of companies to justify their own purchases are worse than the companies that made bad business descisions in the first place.
Stop defending ZOS over the grim harlequin thing, they *** up, they are a big company they dont need your support or your petty downvoting of people that dont want to be screwed over.

This kind of thing pisses me off. You are the consumers, you are not the PR people of a company. Stop beeing unpaid shills and have some dignity.

Bruh that motif was fairly priced AND came with a generous supply of mimic stones. I really can't fault them for that. This game is Buy 2 Play, which means they need to make their income from the crown store, but they also have to be careful not to include P2W items, which they haven't done so far, god bless them.
They can add all the crown store motifs they want as far as I'm concerned, as long as they aren't ridiculously priced, like 5k crowns for just a motif.

Majic · October 2016

Wow wrote: »

Consumers defending bad business practices of companies to justify their own purchases are worse than the companies that made bad business descisions in the first place.
Stop defending ZOS over the grim harlequin thing, they *** up, they are a big company they dont need your support or your petty downvoting of people that dont want to be screwed over.

This kind of thing pisses me off. You are the consumers, you are not the PR people of a company. Stop beeing unpaid shills and have some dignity.

Here's a little tip about disagreeing with people: throwing a tantrum and saying bad things about them doesn't make your case any stronger, and will never convince anyone you're right.

While there is no shortage of legitimate things to complain about in ESO (and which I'm always happy to elaborate on), a lack of options for character appearances is definitely not one of them. The game launched with and has since included an unusually wide range of motifs available to all players at no additional cost. Funding additional motifs above and beyond those already offered by charging for them is by no means unreasonable -- but expecting something for nothing most definitely is.

If ESO was a fashion show simulator where players progressed based on how fabulous they looked, then maybe Crown Store exclusive motifs might be pay-to-win.

But it's not, so they aren't, and there ain't no such thing as a free lunch..

Troneon · October 2016

Lets be honest, ZOS has always been pretty scummy when it comes to their business practices, all the way back to locking imperial race behind a pay wall with pre orders....

This is just another step in a long line of scummy decisions....

They will do what they always do, play dumb and stay silent and watch the cash flow in from the sheeple....who even defend this kind of thing not only pay for it....

Also did you notice ZOS did NOT add achievements into the game for this motif unlike all others? Why? So they could not be accused of having Crown Store Exclusive In Game Achievements.....which would cross a whole other line....

ZOS can play dumb all they like, they know what they are doing and they are being clever about it, only sheeple fall for it...

Wow wrote: »

Consumers defending bad business practices of companies to justify their own purchases are worse than the companies that made bad business descisions in the first place.
Stop defending ZOS over the grim harlequin thing, they *** up, they are a big company they dont need your support or your petty downvoting of people that dont want to be screwed over.

This kind of thing pisses me off. You are the consumers, you are not the PR people of a company. Stop beeing unpaid shills and have some dignity.

Exactly ^^

Majic · October 2016

"Sheeple" is a word which, when used, exposes an insular and nescient perspective. As such, it ultimately functions as a self-directed insult.

That this is invariably evident only to those who don't use the word merely compounds the irony.

Stopnaggin · October 2016

P2W not exactly, but I can say that as a crafter I'm disappointed. I really enjoy the crafting aspect of the game. Now part of that is hidden behind a paywall. Yes I have ESO+ and I get crowns so I can afford to purchase these motifs. I would like to see all these people that don't care about crafting just stop defending this practise. It may not affect you but it does affect some of us. How about they start dropping tokens from bosses and you can use those tokens to buy with real money the set pieces you want? I understand that it's not apples to apples but just imagine it, you would be throwing fits then because a part of the game for you would locked behind a paywall.

Plain and simple this is not what was advertised. Play how you want, and I will play how I want. No need to bag on crafters because part of the game for us has been put behind a paywall.

On a side note, if I can sell those crafted pieces and make in game gold, I could then go to the gold vendor in cyro and purchase gold jewelry which in a way is pay to win. Just sayin.

Iluvrien · October 2016

Chickenstein wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Your assertion seems to be that the criterion for P2W is only met balance changing items. Am I getting that right? Would you define your position as one where anything short of actually selling gear in the Crown Store is acceptable to you?

I don't yet know if I have something as a "position" here really. At this point, I would put it the other way round; if you define gold (moreso, indirect gold as it is not sold directly on the CS) as P2W then any game would be P2W since you can buy gold (unofficially, albeit) for almost any game from dubious sources I guess.

I wouldn't specifically define gold as P2W. Although I would suggest it does give enough of an advantage to preclude this particular type of sale. I am also not sure why the existence of a mechanism (gold sellers) that most developers actively try to decrease or disrupt is a good reason why those same developers should make decisions like this one.

Chickenstein wrote: »

Of course that changes balance since it enables a time/money exchange, but it's not anybody not paying couldn't attain - which, for me, would be the P2W criterion.

And what if your goal, your "win" is defined differently? What if your desire is not to be standing atop a mound of your defeated foes... but to contribute to your guild/community in the role of an accomplished crafter. A supplier of materials and items to improve the playing experience of others. Is it still possible to reach the apex of this particular endeavour without paying?

me_ming · October 2016

magnusthorek wrote: »

IMHO Crown Style motifs are wrong because one can craft items in that style, put to sell and get a lot of in-game money that this player can use to buy-off those items extremely rares that drop once every 50 completions (or more).

Money this that will be spent probably one single time that will cost the buyer MUCH cheaper in dollars than in other countries' currencies (unless the exchange rate favors the other country, of course), which is some sort of financial advantage for some players.

Sidenote: This is not the first time. Remember the "one million dollars" campaign in which several countries were prohibited to participate?

Also, another point I could notice from the picture above and others from another topic, about the Grim Harlequin style, is that Crown Style motifs are much better looking than those available in-game "for free".

They don't seem to have ugly flaps or hairy details nor anything. Dyes seem to match them more flawlessly, without bad shadows or misleading tones.

The overall situation makes me sad because I see the extreme effort I had to put in game to become a master crafter (well, before One Tamriel) which is something I really enjoy, not only because of the achievements related to styles, and I see in the very near future that this pleasure is being taking from me and other like me.

That's why I think this is wrong

LOOOOOL Never met anyone in game who actually was exclusively a crafter by profession. I mean, I haven't sold 200k gold just from someone asking me to craft them a set in a specific motif. Definitely never met anyone in game who became rich just for crafting a specific motif.

I craft for free (I appreciate people who send in donations-- definitely not required though). And I am a part of a guild, that will craft for free for members (with or without mats). I know you can sell crafted gear in guild stores, but mostly it's because of the set bonuses, not the style. I know there are people who are particular with style, but again, never really met or know anyone who actually got ridiculously rich (or better at the game) because of an exclusive CS motif. hahaha. o.O

PS if you're really that worried that you won't get enough crowns next time that they have an exclusive CS motif, save your crowns so you can buy them next time. lol.

Perwulf · December 2016

That's what you get when you feed them through grim harlequin

.

Dymence · December 2016

ravenarc wrote: »

That's what you get when you feed them through grim harlequin .

As if it wasn't predetermined already that this one will be crown store exclusive aswell.

Sallington · December 2016

KriHavok wrote: »

What is your source of information for this being a CS exclusive?

Common sense.

Peekachu99 · December 2016

"Pay to Win" is a term that came about during the advent of Westernized Korean MMORPGs, in games where you could literally pay for gambling boxes or direct equipment upgrades to your toon. There's a lot of distortion and conflation over "looking good" and "being better", and, since ESO isn't billed as a fashion simulator first, if you find your enjoyment through the former, great, but that's not the foundation of the game.

There is no statistical advantage to any Crown Store items, unless you count the potions, which are outclassed by crafted stuff anyway.