REMOVED FROM GROUP FOR USING FOCUSED AIM. (LOL)

kuro-dono · October 2016

funny thing is in pvp, if bow got improved, it would become just too stupid to not do anything else but bow gank people with near 1 one shot hits, while in pve group dungeons, it truly drags down, with dual wield melee range bursting you get way more dmg out vs npc:s but in pvp its just not worth it. FUNNY ISNT IT?

Trysric · October 2016

Have to agree with the other healers here:

Im happy with a ranged dps including main bow build if he stays in front of me and as long as the dps is high enough depending what is needed for the current dungeon.

It is far more annoying to run pug with suicidal melee dps who stick to red.

However if you do more difficult group content - all roles have to adjust their gameplay depending on group setup and content played, you are no exception

Cherryblossom · October 2016

Sorry wasn't there so can't comment on your situation or behaviour in the dungeon.

It's clear you can get decent damage with a bow with the right gear and skills, it's not however clear what the OP was doing.

Most stam DPS have bow as a back bar due to the dot damage, which is your filling to your DPS, the rest of you damage comes from melee, only swapping back to the bow to re-apply dots or if you have keep range on the boss.

WuffyCerulei · October 2016

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Bow isn't really viable for PVE in the same way Twohander isn't. it isn't optimal meaning your a bad person for using it.

It usually stems from the fact that the devs seem to think burst damage is relegated to PVP. Which is weird. I've never seen a game besides this that does this, but there it is.

That said, eliteist pricks will be eliteist pricks, but lately we've all had to be them because of the untweaked dungeon scaling. It'll clear up after the nerfs.

No, we don't have to be buttholes in the new dungeons. If someone isn't the best but is willing to listen, then fine, they can stay. But if someone won't listen and won't help out the group, or if someone only stands there and complains about how "bad" the group is doing, then some butts will be kicked from the group.

MakoFore · October 2016

banished cells is a dungeon full of mobs and ur shooting single snipes on mobs?
i think alot of vet groups might have lost patience with u if thats the case.

andryuhav · October 2016

Snipes are a no go for pve, except some boss fights with ranged mechanics. I feel for those of you, who play a role of a tricky bowman, but you have to understand - there is a difference between roleplaying and effective dungeon farming. It would be better to find some RP comrades to live through dungeons together.
I personaly don't have much time to willingly spend more on dungeon runs than required.

Anti_Virus · October 2016

kuro-dono wrote: »

funny thing is in pvp, if bow got improved, it would become just too stupid to not do anything else but bow gank people with near 1 one shot hits, while in pve group dungeons, it truly drags down, with dual wield melee range bursting you get way more dmg out vs npc:s but in pvp its just not worth it. FUNNY ISNT IT?

The best way to buff bow is to nerf the burst potential and buff sustained dmg,

Increase the velocity of snipe and lower its dmg by 15%. That way arrows hit more often but hits less this should put a huge dent in one shot bow ganking and allow archer to fight in open combat.

Ch4mpTW · October 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

Chrysa1is wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Focus aim is bad

I do pretty good damage with it though. On top of that, I provide a lot of DoT so I don't get what the problem is. The group can benefit from it too as it afflicts Minor Fracture. I get is not an AoE move, but my character is good at single 1v1 damage, hence why I use it.

You just got told it's bad, which it is, and you refused to as why it's bad and ask for a build better, there are tons of builds out there and yes the game really is a meta game but it's very demanding to do good damage.
Bow doesn't exactly have a use in PvE

@Nifty2g It's pretty interesting that you say that. Part of the reason why I started doing things on my own, and solo'ing is because I got tired of putting up with other people's crap. I got tired of "the meta" trends, and started doing everything I could do solo. And only doing group content when it's an absolute must (12-man content). My enjoyment of ESO skyrocketed upon doing this, and every time I login I am super excited about what I'm going to get into next.

Azuramoonstar · October 2016

threads like this make me wish MMO were still niche...

not talking about the op, but meta sheep.

mmo died the day people started to use parser -_-;;

feel free to not up vote, been dealing with this mindset since WoW launch and rise in mmo. Prior no one complained about time or dps.

Also single target killing is just as important to aoe killing. picking off the caster and healer helps regardless of pull size.

DocFrost72 · October 2016

That awkward moment when we start crapping on bow attacks that keep the dps out of the red so the healer can focus on resource management and dps.

Protip: 20k is more than enough dps for any non DLC 4 man. You can reach 25-30k on a bow. All those who said it is "bad", I can fix that for you. It isn't (and shouldn't be) as good as melee dps, magic OR stam.

That said OP without a video, I'd be skeptical to blame either side.

dday3six · October 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Chrysa1is wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Focus aim is bad

I do pretty good damage with it though. On top of that, I provide a lot of DoT so I don't get what the problem is. The group can benefit from it too as it afflicts Minor Fracture. I get is not an AoE move, but my character is good at single 1v1 damage, hence why I use it.

You just got told it's bad, which it is, and you refused to as why it's bad and ask for a build better, there are tons of builds out there and yes the game really is a meta game but it's very demanding to do good damage.
Bow doesn't exactly have a use in PvE

@Nifty2g It's pretty interesting that you say that. Part of the reason why I started doing things on my own, and solo'ing is because I got tired of putting up with other people's crap. I got tired of "the meta" trends, and started doing everything I could do solo. And only doing group content when it's an absolute must (12-man content). My enjoyment of ESO skyrocketed upon doing this, and every time I login I am super excited about what I'm going to get into next.

But here's the kicker, you aren't solo-ing with a Stamina build that centers around the Bow and Focused Aim.

susmitds · October 2016

dday3six wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Chrysa1is wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Focus aim is bad

I do pretty good damage with it though. On top of that, I provide a lot of DoT so I don't get what the problem is. The group can benefit from it too as it afflicts Minor Fracture. I get is not an AoE move, but my character is good at single 1v1 damage, hence why I use it.

You just got told it's bad, which it is, and you refused to as why it's bad and ask for a build better, there are tons of builds out there and yes the game really is a meta game but it's very demanding to do good damage.
Bow doesn't exactly have a use in PvE

@Nifty2g It's pretty interesting that you say that. Part of the reason why I started doing things on my own, and solo'ing is because I got tired of putting up with other people's crap. I got tired of "the meta" trends, and started doing everything I could do solo. And only doing group content when it's an absolute must (12-man content). My enjoyment of ESO skyrocketed upon doing this, and every time I login I am super excited about what I'm going to get into next.

But here's the kicker, you aren't solo-ing with a Stamina build that centers around the Bow and Focused Aim.

Apart from Stamsorcs in some of easiest dungeons, I haven't yet seen any stamina build solo anything. Heck, stamina nightblades fall like pins in a full group, I wonder if they can solo anything.

DocFrost72 · October 2016

susmitds wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Chrysa1is wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Focus aim is bad

I do pretty good damage with it though. On top of that, I provide a lot of DoT so I don't get what the problem is. The group can benefit from it too as it afflicts Minor Fracture. I get is not an AoE move, but my character is good at single 1v1 damage, hence why I use it.

You just got told it's bad, which it is, and you refused to as why it's bad and ask for a build better, there are tons of builds out there and yes the game really is a meta game but it's very demanding to do good damage.
Bow doesn't exactly have a use in PvE

@Nifty2g It's pretty interesting that you say that. Part of the reason why I started doing things on my own, and solo'ing is because I got tired of putting up with other people's crap. I got tired of "the meta" trends, and started doing everything I could do solo. And only doing group content when it's an absolute must (12-man content). My enjoyment of ESO skyrocketed upon doing this, and every time I login I am super excited about what I'm going to get into next.

But here's the kicker, you aren't solo-ing with a Stamina build that centers around the Bow and Focused Aim.

Apart from Stamsorcs in some of easiest dungeons, I haven't yet seen any stamina build solo anything. Heck, stamina nightblades fall like pins in a full group, I wonder if they can solo anything.

My stamplar is a house, vigor +rally all day.

Lukums1 · October 2016

This is a l2p issue...

sorry but it is.

Azuramoonstar · October 2016

Lukums1 wrote: »

This is a l2p issue...

sorry but it is.

not really.. its a "don't kick people for petty reasons" issue.

pre wow mmo never really had this issue.

As long as you contribute, you are welcome. Since WoW and widespread use of parser everyone tries to act pro when they are not.

They put on high expectations, and belief that meta = pro and pro=good. When that isn't the case.

All it does is stress people out, make them feel bad.. and write threads like this. I have seen this thread in every multiplayer game I've played after WoWs launch. People put too much into leader boards and dps, and forget the content.

they bring up "waste of time" forgetting players of various levels play. Some are vets going through the motions, some are new to content.

Every style has its pros and cons, it is up to the team to try and work together. Pissing on each other doesn't promote good teamwork.

Giving people a hard time over something arbitrary is very idiotic. Using "waste of time" as a complaint is juvenile.

Same as refusing to play your role due to other people.

I've been playing mmo since 2004, and seems year after year since WoW made mmo mainstream communities get worst and worst.
only time you should kick a person is if they are being hostile, get disconnected for over 10min, or afk for ever 5 min unless specified.

elder scrolls always promoted play style versatility. Why ruin it?

mmo now a day to cater to the meta styles, they cut out job versatility.

people ff14 complain how rigid the class system there is, how there is no customization.

we got a game that promotes it... don't ruin it

dday3six · October 2016

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Lukums1 wrote: »

This is a l2p issue...

sorry but it is.

not really.. its a "don't kick people for petty reasons" issue.

pre wow mmo never really had this issue.

As long as you contribute, you are welcome. Since WoW and widespread use of parser everyone tries to act pro when they are not.

They put on high expectations, and belief that meta = pro and pro=good. When that isn't the case.

All it does is stress people out, make them feel bad.. and write threads like this. I have seen this thread in every multiplayer game I've played after WoWs launch. People put too much into leader boards and dps, and forget the content.

they bring up "waste of time" forgetting players of various levels play. Some are vets going through the motions, some are new to content.

Every style has its pros and cons, it is up to the team to try and work together. Pissing on each other doesn't promote good teamwork.

Giving people a hard time over something arbitrary is very idiotic. Using "waste of time" as a complaint is juvenile.

Same as refusing to play your role due to other people.

I've been playing mmo since 2004, and seems year after year since WoW made mmo mainstream communities get worst and worst.
only time you should kick a person is if they are being hostile, get disconnected for over 10min, or afk for ever 5 min unless specified.

elder scrolls always promoted play style versatility. Why ruin it?

mmo now a day to cater to the meta styles, they cut out job versatility.

people ff14 complain how rigid the class system there is, how there is no customization.

we got a game that promotes it... don't ruin it

Just a bit of a history lesson. FF11 predates WoW and it had players using parsers with expectations of players to pull their own weight. If you want to carry players go ahead, but don't go getting upset when not every player shares your point of view.

ESO doesn't promote customization. That's a fantasy some cling to, hoping that one day ESO will mystically morph into v2.0 of insert your favorite single player Elder Scrolls title. There are clear winners and losers amongst skills and builds, and even ZOS promotes selective skill usage with things like Maelstrom weapons. You've never going to get this mythical meta-smasher of a game that some try-hards want ESO to be.

clocksstoppe · October 2016

susmitds wrote: »

Focused Aim is bad, huh?

Lmao major brut and crit from potions on non-trial dungeons. Maybe if you had money to burn and the boss did literally nothing (*cough* bloodspawn) you could justify using bow.

SteveCampsOut · October 2016

Chrysa1is wrote: »

I literally started the Banished Cells II Pledge. And I got asked to stop spamming the bow skill Focused Aim, and just for the record. I don't stand there using the move, I use other moves as well. After beating Maw of the Infernal. I got told to stop using it, then one member passed the crown to the guy complaining and I got removed from the group.

Basically, I got removed for using a move someone else didn't like because I was apparently doing bad dps.

Has it really gotten to the stage where you get told how to play the game and what skills you can use? Almost like a ''My way, or the highway'' thing.

What are your thoughts on this?

Regardless of how good or bad a skill is, it's more about your refusal to take advice from a group mate and repeatedly using skill that doesn't help the group Could they have been nicer and explained why you should use something else? Sure. SHould you have asked why? Again, sure. What we have here is a failure to work together.

Enslaved · October 2016

dday3six wrote: »

ESO doesn't promote customization. That's a fantasy some cling to, hoping that one day ESO will mystically morph into v2.0 of insert your favorite single player Elder Scrolls title. There are clear winners and losers amongst skills and builds, and even ZOS promotes selective skill usage with things like Maelstrom weapons. You've never going to get this mythical meta-smasher of a game that some try-hards want ESO to be.

TBH, in every game you have optimal setup, several other decent ones and that is pretty much it. It is fairly impossible to tweak so many different sets for them to be on the same, top shelf of usefulness.
I don't have any problem with this, it is simply how life works. I find that t is a thing of courtesy to give your best when in group with other ppl. If that means that I have to adapt to certain play style I might not be overly hyped for, it is fine. Some setups are simply better for group dungeons, other are better for solo play and that is it. If you know what is your role in the party, try to make everyone's life easier by doing it properly. And do find nice and friendly guilds. There are ppl out there willing to spend some of their time while you test your own builds, but PuGs ain't best place to search for these.

Alucardo · October 2016

Acrolas wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

This game has no room for people who want to play as archers

This response made me literally lol for like 5 minutes

Alucardo · October 2016

ParaNostram wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

This game has no room for people who want to play as archers

Congratulations, you are what's wrong with this game.

I don't think you actually understood where I was coming from. I'm actually on the OPs side. Maining a bow has always been less than satisfactory in ESO, no matter how many buffs and sets they try to give it.
But I thank you for jumping to conclusions and just assuming I was being offensive.

Yamenstein · October 2016

Chrysa1is wrote: »

I literally started the Banished Cells II Pledge. And I got asked to stop spamming the bow skill Focused Aim, and just for the record. I don't stand there using the move, I use other moves as well. After beating Maw of the Infernal. I got told to stop using it, then one member passed the crown to the guy complaining and I got removed from the group.

Basically, I got removed for using a move someone else didn't like because I was apparently doing bad dps.

Has it really gotten to the stage where you get told how to play the game and what skills you can use? Almost like a ''My way, or the highway'' thing.

What are your thoughts on this?

You need to do your role though. DPS though it can be difficult, has only really one purpose in dungeon runs - dps - healers and tanks provide lots of support. DPS you just turn off and you aoe down mobs, maybe dodge roll something, but at the end of the day you are looking out for yourself and only have to DPS down mobs or bosses. I say good on that group for kicking you. But that depends on what you were doing. Bow attacks, any of the abilities, don't do enough DPS. Maybe in a normal dungeon run - but now with 1T you will be put with people who have higher DPS to make up for your lack of DPS and how is that fair them? I don't want to carry you. I would rather run the dungeon with just the tank and the healer and kick you so I don't feel like you are their for the easy carry.

It's not simply a move some one doesn't like - it's using a move that isn't doing anything. I would rather you spam rapid strikes, at least then I can just think that you don't have a rotation down.

What is your rotation?

Yamenstein · October 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Chrysa1is wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Focus aim is bad

I do pretty good damage with it though. On top of that, I provide a lot of DoT so I don't get what the problem is. The group can benefit from it too as it afflicts Minor Fracture. I get is not an AoE move, but my character is good at single 1v1 damage, hence why I use it.

You just got told it's bad, which it is, and you refused to as why it's bad and ask for a build better, there are tons of builds out there and yes the game really is a meta game but it's very demanding to do good damage.
Bow doesn't exactly have a use in PvE

@Nifty2g It's pretty interesting that you say that. Part of the reason why I started doing things on my own, and solo'ing is because I got tired of putting up with other people's crap. I got tired of "the meta" trends, and started doing everything I could do solo. And only doing group content when it's an absolute must (12-man content). My enjoyment of ESO skyrocketed upon doing this, and every time I login I am super excited about what I'm going to get into next.

I love going outside of the meta - my DressingRoom addon is full of different sets for when I want to muck around. Some people just need to know when to use what, or not do the content because it's putting everyone else at a disadvantage. Some of the minimum requirements I have, for myself, make sure I reach a DPS of at least 20k (18k minimum) this is for group vet dungeons. I can do that with most of my DPS builds. I have some DPS builds for doing zone content - exploring/delves/WB/etc. I have a vet Tanking build, and an aggressive tanking build so I can dps a bit at the same time for the easier vet dungeons (or basically all normal dungeons). I am even putting together a stamina healer which I want to use for normal dungeons with my friends. If it's good then I might even try it with randoms, and possibly move onto vet dungeons as well (no, never trials).

Ajaxduo · October 2016

People forcing others into 'optimal' builds is just ugh. I mean sure you need to pull your weight as a dps but you do realize you can get a solid 30k+ with stam bow now right? Focused Aim, Endless Hail, Poison Injection, Lightweight Beast Trap, Bow ulti/Meteor then possible class based ranged abilities - it's actually pretty good. But yeah, I mean sure if you are only spamming focused aim then that's bad.

hedna123b14_ESO · October 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

ajback_ESO wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Focused aim is bad

how so? I'm a archer build, and I pull 24k+ using Lethal Arrow(focused Aim skill line). FTC and LUI was showing that I sent out the most DPS when I did BC2 this morning.

I won't call focused aim bad (it has its uses), but it's all relative. You can spec into bow an pull passable DPS, no question. In the current meta, 24K DPS is average at best (30k is good, 40k+ is elite). Play how you want, but bow single target PVE DPS is bottom of the barrel, has been for a while. If I were in a group struggling for DPS, I would look first to the DPS main barring a sword and board or resto staff (it happens), followed closely by the guy main barring a bow.

Also, Group damage was purposely disabled. Only way you know if you are pulling more than the next guy is if everyone has damage sharing on FTC enabled (which is not always reliable) or everyone was posting damage in chat (maybe they did).

I am certainly not advocating anyone be kicked from group. Personally, I dont think vote kicks should be allowed until the group has wiped 2 or 3 times.

Both group damage and combat metrics show your percenrage of group DPS, which kind of gives you a rough idea.

SodanTok · October 2016

I like how so many people joined this discussion to chip on that bow is bad. That is it. They probably dont know what bow does, how it does, what are numbers for it. They only know that when they joined this game someone told them its bad.
You can meet players that say its bad while they do less DPS. They may not know how to properly play (yet), but they already know bow is worse than what they are using.

KingYogi415 · October 2016

Every single stam end game build in pve uses poisen injection and volley.

Being an "archer" is the meta. Just not roleplaying one with snipe.

Cheers!

Alucardo · October 2016

Maybe if they made the Marksman sets bonus work against enemies instead of just "players" we might see some better numbers with a bow. You could run Hawk's eye + Marksman then for a 13% damage increase of bow abilities.
Like wtf was going through their minds in the meeting room when designing this set "Guys, make sure Marksman can be utilised in PVP only. We don't want bow DPS getting out of control in trials and dungeons!"

vyndral13preub18_ESO · October 2016

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Every single stam end game build in pve uses poisen injection and volley.

Being an "archer" is the meta. Just not roleplaying one with snipe.

Cheers!

How i wish there was another stam ranged weapon. Would be so cool. And another magicka weapon while i am wishing for stuff.

AnviOfVai · October 2016

I kind of get this, but at the same time I don't. Surely you can use what ever skills you want.

Its like being told, Oh your not using *so and so's build* I don't want you in the group.

I hate this. No one can yell you how to play this game. Yes when you are in dungeons and you are a dps you defiantly need to do the job you have said you can do, if using focus aim is part of that skill then yeah go ahead and use it. Just don't spam it like others said. The group leader was rather harsh as well...

Sometimes I read these forums and I see proper strategic ways of playing this game, which is great! but in the end it is a game, make your own build, play how YOU would play.

I run around with pets in PVP (and yes they are not the best to have in pvp but they are fun). I have a build which is mixed with the Shepards build. I love playing the way I play, its not about being the strongest for me, or beating players, its about enjoying the game gaining points and money to get gear you want, unlocking skills you can mix and match with your character, and generally having fun with your friends! (occasionally naked parties) Heck I have had this game since release, I am on it when I can get on it... I am no where near champ level 531.

People want to get these dungeons done fast, to get the gear as fast as possible...kind of gets rid of the aspect of the game for me.