Will we be able to opt out of One Tamriel's battle-leveling system?

sentientomega · August 2016

Asardes wrote: »

At level 6 you should try level 6 mobs. For example fresh out of Coldharbour you are level 4. Mobs on starter island are level 3-4 and are pretty easy to kill. I was blasting the mobs on Bleakrock after half an hour of playing the game. It was in Beta. I also did it later with my main a few months later. I had played no other MMO before that. At no level did I have any difficulty in killing mobs at my levels or 1-2 levels above, even with crap build, gear and skill. Even soloed most bosses in public dungeons and in the open. I suspect mobs in some DLC areas use different variables for scaling and they are intentionally made harder to beat. But if they just scaled it as they scale now for the normal single player content it would be OK for 90% of players.

Level 6 mobs at level 6 I've no problem with, and I typically leave the Wailing Prison at level 6 (the experience gained from turning in Soul Shriven in Coldharbour usually puts me at level 6). I would've lasted a minute in the beta, to hear people talk about how things were then. Soloing public dungeon bosses and OW group bosses, I've never been able to do, except on sorc, with pets (clannfear, at least) and overload, at least 5 levels (geared for same as well) above said bosses. ZOS have always said in their blogs that you can go straight out of the Wailing Prison and into a DLC zone to do the content, I believed them. I suggest they are...mistaken...

Why should they make ordinary mobs of 1-3 ordinaries harder to beat? They're food for grinding, why make that grind unnecessarily harder?

At any rate, I shall be testing on the PTS; I could be pleasantly surprised, but I have an horrible suspicion I won't be. If it's possible, I shall make a totally new character, level 1, no CPs, no boon, nothing, just soul-shriven clothes and a greatsword, and then test things with that configuration on the PTSA. If one-pip bosses in the open world I can handle with those inadequacies, yes, I'll be ecstatic, as well as pleasantly surprised.

Asardes · August 2016

Usually you can find scaled single attribute food in pots and lying on tables and cupboards. Sometimes I ate the "crusty bread" and other local specialties while soloing the said bosses. One of the few I couldn't solo was the group of 3 necromancers in Auridon, just across Phaer village, on Soulfire Plateau. Beside those, I soloed pretty much all the bosses in all alliance areas, with 4 different classes: hybrid tank DK, mage templar, stamina nightblade and mage sorcerer. The templar was the easiest. Just puncturing strikes all the way and the odd BoL and heavy attack. Only with the DK was hard, and that's because I had not learned how to play. So it's doable even for low skill, bad gear and low or no CP players.

sentientomega · August 2016

Food, drink and potions should really only be necessary for group content though, like trials.

I wasn't talking about being able to solo them (group bosses, public dungeon bosses) with One Tamriel, I was talking about one-gem bosses (one gem on either side of the standard game HP bar, which may not exist with an addon like FTC perhaps), like trolls, or pretty much every main story boss, for testing to see if Update 12 really is for me. I was also talking in terms of being a scaled-up lowbie, in a zone like the Gold Coast, taking on a minotaur, for instance.

All I ask is that I can reasonably take on anyone ALONE I'd expect to be able to reasonably take on alone, from one-gem bosses down to...umm...a rat.

I've no objection to grouping up to tackle a dolmen or any other content considered by the devs, not by us, to be group content. There are usually people there anyway...

Apart from that, everything else that they would, I imagine, describe as solo content, should not require me to group up with anyone to complete. Things like OW grinding of regular mobs, the Main Quest line, Mages and Fighters Guilds line, any content that isn't specifically labelled, neither here in blogs (Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood feature, respectively, heists and sacraments as possibly needing as many as four players, though it Is possible to complete these with one), nor ingame, as in any way needing more than one player to complete.

I had hoped to be able to farm mobs in any zone in order to power-level to 50 and beyond in Update 12 quite easily, and complete the MQ, MG, FG, TG and DB storylines, and the Orsinium storyline ofc, all with relative ease.

Asardes · August 2016

If something is there it's with a purpose. Single stat food is not sufficient in 4 man dungeons, even on normal mode. There you need 2 stat at least, either normal blue food with max health + max magicka/stamina of appropriate level, or blue Orsinium food with max health + magicka/stamina recovery if you lack sustain. For trials purple tri-stat food/drink may be required for tanks. That's what all people who go there should use, depending on their build. DDs and healers have little health to begin with because they put most and usually all their points in stamina or magicka in order to max their damage/healing. Base health around 10-12K. They should be able to reach 17-18K with food and passive skill multipliers from undaunted and other skill lines. Rest should be the main stats. Even tanks can go with full stamina if they use tri-glyphs on their gear.

STEVIL · August 2016

sentientomega wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

sentientomega wrote: »

They could add refined mats (has to be refined, because they're much cheaper in the stores than raw anyway) to the crafting vendors at 15 gold a unit or some such price, said price increasing with each tier upgrade of mat. Obviously, endgame mats should not be there at all.

@STEVIL

That would be an interesting way of streamlining the crafting system to accommodate One Tamriel, but none of mine would be able to gather tier 2 equipment crafting mats, because I intend to try and get all mine to level 26 before the update arrives. Not that it matters, I've got plentiful tier 2s for levelling gear crafting, with only one set being made before hitting level 26, whereupon I get some tier 3s for the better looks. My main crafters are on tier 4s for equipment, so they should have no shortage of those mats either, and I'd make sure I got plenty of them (at least 2000 of each) before getting to the next tier, aided by just doing nothing but gathering before the character's level ticks over into the next tier (in my crafters' cases, 46).

My main concern is not crafting though, my main concern is surviving solo combat under a system where the scaling is totally inadequate, to say the least.

For the scaling issue i have no idea what to tell you. My four new slot characters have all done a quest into the scalable dlc areas - at levels 4-35, without any Cp beyond 10 in the regen one for harvest passive and it wasn't by any means lethal difficulty. As such, i dont expect to see any sort of excessive survival problems after OneT. It will be tougher than now, to be sure depending on how one plays.

Understatement of all time...it'll be totally impossible...

So much for this being for new players, I will test it on the PTS, and if I'm finding myself stressing too much, as I'm absolutely positive I will be, that'll be me finished with ESO for now. I really like this game, I'd rather not leave it, but I can see no other option if the devs are going to make this game super-duper hard just to appease a bunch of people who've totally monopolised forum opinion on game difficulty.

This change cannot possibly be for new players, never in a bazillion years would they make a game harder and expect new players.

I really would like to stay, but no amount of beautiful scenery, or story, or RP could possibly be worth the colossal ordeals of self-punishment I'll have no alternative to put myself through just to get anywhere in the game.

It would be something for the devs to pipe up and reassure everyone that this game isn't become a Dark Souls or Secret World type, if that is the case; if they happen to agree with my view that games should not be stress-fests...

Ok so first off i have not experienced the impossible difficulty you describe in normal casual play such as quests (main, zone, side, repeatables). The difficult content comes into play with yrials, some dungeons, some world bosses and some group content.

Second, their current scsling snd iirc future scsling provides lower level charsacers extras above the scale they would have and evens it back out to on par by about 15 iirc.so there is simple direct evidence that tge intent of scaling is not to wipe new characters over and over.

Third, asking someone to deny any and all "what ivworty they might do even tho they havent done it so far" is a tad unreaslistic. They have not yet shown ANY signs of hammering newbies with super hard content so why suddenly think they are gonna and ask for a denial? There are a gazillion bad things they havent done, they would be denying all day unending.

The biggest difficult change imo, other than dpecific changes tp optional content for difficulty and flavor, will be the removal of out levelling.

I am NOT one of those wanting casual content, questing, repeatables to be super difficult. Casual play should not be stressful. I have argued that often. But i see nothing so far that even hints at the fear you are expressing being in the works.

Do you have any evidence to say or suggest a massive up-tick in casual difficulty is their plan?

sentientomega · August 2016

@STEVIL

How many CPs have you got? Not that it really matters, on EU I have a mere 46, on NA I have no CPs.

I was talking about content in the DLC zones, not the 1-50 zones, and speaking of that; a friend told me in the last half-hour that they read that items will now scale with the character, something they've not done in the past. Because not doing so did offer the kind of challenge I suggested I was facing, so if that's true, about items scaling with the character, it does change things. When I asked if grinding mobs in a 160 zone wearing CP150/160 gear was like grinding mobs as a level 1-5 in the Wailing Prison, they said for ordinary mobs (I presume they included 1-gem mini-boss types in this), yes.

I'm perfectly happy to group up with people for content designated as being for groups, like the group bosses etc.

Right now, I don't have much, if any trouble with the 1-50 zones, though the only char I've gotten to Coldharbour is a sorc with overload, the clannfear and twilight matriarch, not really a true indication of accuracy in determining difficulty. The only other char I have at such a high level is a stamina templar at level 30.

Well, like I said about the scaling, players not geared for CP160 mobs are still at a disadvantage against them, even when scaled up in level. And if they planned to scale ALL zones in the exact same way as Hew's, the Gold Coast and Wrothgar, are currently scaled, anyone below CP160 and geared 150/160 is going to have a rough kind of time, because something is clearly wrong with their scaling. It has to be, why else would peeps accuse my dps of being low, at level 10, in a random dungeon scaled to CP160? I do everything I can, use all the skills I have, they have nothing to blame me for, it's not my fault if the scaling renders my char weak.

I simply meant that ZOS could reassure us that the scaling they're going to implement in all the zones is not going to be solo-unfriendly, especially for new players, and myself. They've not brought anything to live yet, but they are going to; and it's not unreasonable to wonder, given how poorly low-level chars are scaled in the DLC zones, whether the exact same experience I've had in the DLC zones is going to be carried over into the newly-scaled-up 1-50 zones when One Tamriel hits live, given that apparently, disregarding what my friend suggested, will be exactly the same way as the DLC zones. So no, it's not what anyone hasn't done that concerns me, it's what's going to happen. Unlike the other zones, 1-50, the DLC ones, I find to be no cakewalk, even with set-bonus gear.

I never sad you were about wanting things harder, I apologise if it did sound that way.

I've not seen your posts reflecting your views about exactly that, so where you stood on things wasn't totally clear.

No, but then I've no evidence that they're not, either; if the way they do the scaling for all the zones is exactly the way they do it for DLC zones now, then it is going to be tough for totally fresh players who have just started playing. Therefore, I cannot conclude anything other than they wanted to make things more difficult. Of course, if my friend is right, and other similar rumours are true, then perhaps they really could be doing this for new players, if the battle-levelling in all the zones, DLC ones included, is to be tweaked. Besides, their motives are for them to declare, if they care to. I can only draw conclusions based on what little evidence I do have, and it doesn't make sense if they declare their intention to help new players, only to make things harder for them instead. But if there is going to be a change in the nature of the scaling for everything, including DLC zones, then I would appear to be wrong in my conclusions.

Asardes · August 2016

I've had no trouble clearing all content, including most group content - all normal dungeons and all veteran dungeons except VCoA and the IC ones at VR2-3 with less than 100 CP (which I didn't spend) in level 44 green gear. I cleared VCoA - which was not nerfed at the time - at VR4 in VR3 (CP30) blue quality gear, which I kept up 'till VR16. By that time I had 240 CP, I had just cleared Cadwell's silver and the 1st Cadwell's Gold zone (Auridon). I had completely cleared Gold and moved on to Craglorn when I decided to craft VR14 (CP140) purple gear, which carried me trough to 400 CP+ when I had gathered enough materials, primarily trough deconstruction. to craft gold CP160 armor. This was just before veteran ranks were removed.

STEVIL · August 2016

@sentientomega

I have well over cap in cp but when i run my new chars at lvls 3-49, i only allocate 10 to regen for the harvest thing.

I think you have a misunderstanding about the scaling and content.

This is seen when running thru silver and gold.

There is a YUGE difference between cp160 content such as you see in the dlc zones and the lower level content in auridon or glenumbra or stonefalls SCALED UP TO cp160.

The opening content scaled up gains hpasnd damage etc but still lacks the complexity of threat that makes true cp160 content tough. Most of the Glenumbra, stonefall etc is solo adversary with little or no cc stuns etc. It is a simpler type of threat because it is designed to be met by characters with only a few skills unlocked, maybe not even a full five slots, definitely no bar swap and none of the plethora of options a higher level two bar ten skill plus ults have.

So when glenumbra gets SCALED it wont suddenly transform its groups of single, maybe double, imps into three to four varmint mobs with their own healers, own stunners, etc. The one or two imps will just be tougher and hit harder if your level requires it.

Right now running into ssy Wrothgar with a level 10 character, you are running into more complex threats, true cp160 threats which are often multi-faceted hitting from multiple angles and which are intended to be playing against fully fleshed out characters. Trying those with half armor slots filked, no sets, before bar swapping is going to make that comlkexity of threat "impossible" for many, imo. Its not the fault of SCALING but that the character is allowed in beforevthey have sufficient tools to handle those threats.

Imo.

But when i ran silver and gold over and over before cp, the early zones SCALED UP TO VET were simple to finish just because of the limited sophistication... one or two cc vulnerable enemy grouping without their on heal or ability to stun interrupt a "vet 2" pc is not a threat where size matters. I disorient one, kill the other then heal and kill the second... options not available to real low level characters.

So if you hear SCALING and think "lvl 10 character in wrothgar" you have the wrong picture. I expect there will be little to no difference for the difficulty in casual play for new players.

Dahveed · September 2016

Brrrofski wrote: »

Battle leveling only applies to you if you're below level 50.

So it won't change anything for you op.

If this is true, then that is fantastic.

scorpiodog · September 2016

Dahveed wrote: »

Hiya.

I am a pretty casual ESO player (still nowhere even close to CP cap after almost 2 years), but I still like to be challenged by the content.

Currently my level 50 Dragon Knight is at CP 70, but I'm doing Craglorn stuff and mostly getting my butt kicked, which is great. I have managed to complete about a dozen quests and 3 or 4 group delves by myself, despite it being a group zone which greatly outlevels my character. I die a lot, and I fail a lot... I am currently stuck on Craglorn's main quest because the Trial dungeon (forget the name) keeps destroying me... but I plan on leveling up another 10 or 20 CPs to try again later.

However I am worried that once One Tamriel comes out, this will ruin my way of playing. If I am auto-scaled to the zone's level I worry that all the quests will once again become an idiotic face-roll, just like all the rest of this game's leveling.

I have made a couple different new discussions on the forums asking for various forms of difficulty sliders (my best idea would be a player-centered debuff), but most short-sighted posters just yell me out of the forums and tell me to "make my own challenge" by doing stuff that outlevels me, i.e. Craglorn. But it seems that this will no longer be possible.

Will I be able to disable battle-leveling so that the entire game doesn't become a giant, boring faceroll again?

After CP 160 becomes easier because you can start really investing in good gear.

For me the worst thing about pre-160 was that I didn't want to spend money or mats on gear that I would out-grow in 5 playing sessions. Or you get cool dropped sets that are under 160. What can you do with a CP 70 Malubeth helm, lol? Or a level 49 Vicecannon ring, lmao.

There's a huge difference between 11-12 blue/purple items with white glyphs and 11-12 gold items with gold glyphs. I don't think one tamriel will change that.

Shadowshire · September 2016

Holycannoli wrote: »

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

For crafting nodes, they will be on the 50/50 system already implemented in the DLC zones, whereby the node will either be your character level or your crafting level.

This is what pisses me off. What if I want to gather mid-level ore for my blacksmith to craft weapons and armor for one of my alts? My blacksmith is level 50 blacksmithing but only level 20. How can he gather dwarven, ebony etc?
....
After One Tamriel I will be locked out of mid-level crafting mats and I'm pissed because there's no need to change how it works right now. My level 20 blacksmith with 50 blacksmithing will either get rubedite, void ore or whatever the level 20 ore is. As I level him he will be locked out of the lower level mats.

I mean wtf. It's idiotic.

First of all, in One Tamriel the Inspiration Level of a craft does not affect the materials that the PC can gather. The rank of the first passive in Blacksmithing (and in Clothing and in Woodworking) will determine which raw material is available 50% of the time. For the consumables, the rank of the first, or sometimes the second, passive will determine which raw material is available 50% of the time.

But you are right. There has been no direct correlation before between "combat level" (e.g., your "Level 20" PC) and the materials gained by foraging. However, in the current system, there is a "combat level" for each zone and a PC cannot enter that zone until and unless the PC's combat level is equal to or higher than the level for the zone. Each zone also has the raw materials that are needed to make armor, weapons, glyphs, etc. for PCs that are at the "combat level" for the zone.

In One Tamriel, 50% of the time -- regardless of the actual zone in which a PC is present -- the PC will receive materials that currently would be in a zone that has the combat level equal to or a bit lower than the PC's current combat level, regardless of the PC's crafting passive(s). This allows a PC to gather materials to sell, or to give to another player whose PC has the crafting skill to make armor, weapons and/or consumables for the other PC which that PC can equip or use.

Frankly, I do not consider this as a good compromise. Recall that the first rank of at least one passive in each of the six crafts is "unlocked" by default when a PC is created. On the face of it, if the PC doesn't have any additional Skill Points in a crafting passive, then 50% of the time the PC receives the first-rank crafting material regardless of the PC's combat level. (NOTE: I do not know yet whether this is how it has actually been implemented in the game software, currently on the PTS.)

On the other hand, if the PC's crafting passive is at a higher rank, then 50% of the time the PC should receive the crafting material used required for the current rank of the crafting passive(s), which can be used to make armor, weapons, glyphs, etc. which the PC cannot currently use (again, regardless of the zone in which the PC is present). This is not altogether bad, because a player is better off when they can gather materials for higher-level gear and consumables before the PC has reached the combat level at which they can be equipped. That is, they will be on hand when they are needed to upgrade the PC's armor and weapons, etc.

In conclusion, it seems to me that players should consider investing Skill Points in the passives which determine the level of the crafting materials which their PC will receive -- at least for Blacksmithing, Clothing, and/or Woodworking (i.e., as appropriate for the PC). Else their PC should receive the materials that are needed to craft for the PC's current level only 50% of the time.

SwaminoNowlino · October 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

For crafting nodes, they will be on the 50/50 system already implemented in the DLC zones, whereby the node will either be your character level or your crafting level.

This is what pisses me off. What if I want to gather mid-level ore for my blacksmith to craft weapons and armor for one of my alts? My blacksmith is level 50 blacksmithing but only level 20. How can he gather dwarven, ebony etc?

Right now - and how it's been since beta by the way - you go to the appropriately leveled zone to gather the ore. I use my main clothier who I'm always playing. I go to the appropriate zone with him and collect the ore I need. I can't do that in orsinium so I don't go there to gather crafting mats.

After One Tamriel I will be locked out of mid-level crafting mats and I'm pissed because there's no need to change how it works right now. My level 20 blacksmith with 50 blacksmithing will either get rubedite, void ore or whatever the level 20 ore is. As I level him he will be locked out of the lower level mats.

I mean wtf. It's idiotic.

Observation #1 Dont panic.

Observation #2 Really Don't panic. Just wait, learn and adapt.

#2a With every major game overhaul, SOME character builds used to doing CERTAIN THINGS in a precise and SPECIFIC WAY with one set SKILL CHOICES and so forth often find that in the NEW WORLD ORDER things dont work quite the same and they need to RESPEC, REGEAR and basically ADAPT to the new way things work. (See any number of threads about new meta, regear costs etc.)

#2b often right before the change is occurred, right before the final changes are formalized and the whole picture is known there are tons of tons of tons of the OMG WORLD ENDING IF THEY DO THIS IDIOTIC THING!!!" posts and threads. Just go look at all the poison threads prior to Db release. they make hilarious reading. of course, all those certain doomsayers aren't posting as prolifically to say "hey guess i got that wrong" now.

#2c While it is often that this applies to more active tactical aspects than crafting, there is no reason crafting isn't also subject to the same basic "MMO changes and characters adapt" rule.

Observation #3 just don't panic. I dont think that word means what you think it means.

#3a As Mark twain said in his inaugural address "idiotic is in the eye of the beholder. The third from the left beside the nullify magic." When they recently changed enchantments runes harvesting, even after they tweaked it, there were still plenty telling of the doom... but not the case in fact. When they revamped enchant harvesting, the also made the level control ingredients more accessible (cheap purchase for the mid-tiers) AND removed the narrow window cap on them (used to be that those potencies only covered a small band of levels but now they have no upper limit.)

#3b its quite likely when they redo the node scaling worldwide for other mats they will do some similar levelling tweaks to how that crafting works too. i would not be surprised to see NPC vendor sales of mid-level stuff at cheap prices or to see a change to or removal of in the upper limit or lower limit on mats for equipment.

#3c its not certain they will, but its also not certain they wont. they haven't released the full picture yet so... maybe idiotic is a bit premature a certainty?

Observation #4 OMG PANIC PANIC PANIC ... no wait... thats not sarin gas just a mild panic attack..

#4a its all more big picture than some people realize. If every node in every zone always scales to the character traits, then every character in every zone can pick up mats related to his character. That is a significant change allowing many more characters to harvest stuff at any zone at any time. THIS IS KEY when there is no longer a linear flow linking zone progression and level progression. It is vital and will allow much more to ALL CHARACTERS in general while yes it may not serve some needs of some specific cases.

#4b fact is, with the new progression scheme, the removal of vet ranks, we have already seen a massive drop in the need and demand for cp10-cp80 and even cp90-140 mats. Many characters just skip those mat needs now. Just this morning i was harvesting quicksilver out of reflex and wondering "why is this still in my cp160 zone?" Zone-set-mats makes no sense now and will make no sense on the BIG SCALE even more when OneT removes the linear progression by zones entirely from the levelling process.

#4c Even if some characters doing some activities certain ways have to change their operations, the bigger gains in every character getting useful mats everywhere will better serve the overall community. Sure, some folks used to making tggreat hay out of mid-tier crafting for others might have some adapting to do or might even find it not worthwhile to do that anymore (reduced need/reward for providing mats to others when every node everywhere provides useful mats for everyone and when many mid-tier levels are just skipped) but again, every major change some folks have to adapt prior activities and methods. Even with my anticipated alterations to mats-v-level-crafting, there will be changes that will affect "how things are now."

Observation #5 DIFFERENT is not PANIC

Posions destroying the game, enchantment nodes destroying enchantments, magica Op after TG, Stamina OP after Db, heavy armor useless, heavy armor OP after Db... etc etc etc... not even needing to repeat the many "meta is changing end of the world" ones... one T will be different with different demands leading to significant changes in all aspects - economy and crafting being part of that mix.

So far, nothing about OneT, battle levelling or node scaling makes me think it will be worse than having like 2/3 of the zones being ones i avoid because the harvesting in those zones is useless. In OneT you can play in whetever zones you like and collect equally useful stuff in any of them with new dailies content etc for all. That is a YUGE gain for the mass body of characters.... and if the ones who make hay out of mid-tier off-level crafting have to react and refigure a bit or learn the "new methods" of OneT crafting and adapt... thats not out of whack with what others have had to do all along.... many of whom also cried "there is no reason to change How *I* am doing things."

Zone-set linear mat nodes and narrow range material usage limiting a materials utility to a 2-4 level range are both legacy components to the byegone days of linear level progression tied to content zones. they are the horse in that older horse and buggy crafting-level-progression design. With the massive overhaul of level progression when VEt were removed and the upcoming decoupling of zones with level progression in OneT with the addition of repeatable dailies in every zone those horses need to be put to pasture so gas stations can be built to provide fuel for the cars crafted in OneT.

Come duel me. I'll use poisons and you don't, then talk to me about the impact of poisons on this game.