Will we be able to opt out of One Tamriel's battle-leveling system?

Tomg999

IMHO they are going to ruin the game. I am enjoying playing my sub-level 50 chars now while I still can, picking which area I want to explore based on what level of challenge I feel like.

They have a built-in difficulty slider now, and they are removing it.

Tandor

Although I like the idea of no longer having to delay doing the DLC content until a character is level 50 for fear of out-leveling the base game content, I'd much rather One Tamriel was implemented by the zones retaining their present levels and the player being scaled up or down to it accordingly. Having every zone set at the same level just seems wrong.

However, I happily concede that it might just work. It would have been better in my view tho if it had been announced as a trial setup on the PTS with a view to getting feedback. That way it could be dropped if it didn't work out, whereas this way I fear there's no going back if it proves unworkable or unpopular.

sentientomega

I've taken a level 6 char in lvl 6 whites to the DLC zones, they did not fare well. Taking on level 6 enemies in a non-scaled zone in that same gear and at that same level is quite a different story, FAR fewer hits require to kill an enemy there than when scaled up, battle-levelled style.

So, how am I to reasonably solo anything with all the zones being scaled to max? More importantly, how is a totally new player expected to? They will not have the gear, or CP, or skills, or anything.

To hear people here talk about the game's difficulty, I do really wonder whether we're playing the same game; my experiences of combat in this game have been pretty stressful at times, to me it's not that easy a game to play combat scenarios in.

Please ZOS, think of the solo player when you implement this, as well as the group-minded ones.

benjamino613

Have they basically removed any option to lvl new characters? Everyone is right, do a dungeon lvl 10 scaled to 160 cp. it just doesnt work. How can they not forsee this impending doom?

Arora

NO, NO, NO, NO

Arora

benjamino613 wrote: »

Have they basically removed any option to lvl new characters? Everyone is right, do a dungeon lvl 10 scaled to 160 cp. it just doesnt work. How can they not forsee this impending doom?

If your level 10 the mobs will be lvl 10 I dont see the problem

AzraelKrieg

Arora wrote: »

benjamino613 wrote: »

Have they basically removed any option to lvl new characters? Everyone is right, do a dungeon lvl 10 scaled to 160 cp. it just doesnt work. How can they not forsee this impending doom?

If your level 10 the mobs will be lvl 10 I dont see the problem

Not with One Tamriel update. Everything is CP160, all players below are scaled to CP150 regardless of the content they do

Holycannoli

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

For crafting nodes, they will be on the 50/50 system already implemented in the DLC zones, whereby the node will either be your character level or your crafting level.

This is what pisses me off. What if I want to gather mid-level ore for my blacksmith to craft weapons and armor for one of my alts? My blacksmith is level 50 blacksmithing but only level 20. How can he gather dwarven, ebony etc?

Right now - and how it's been since beta by the way - you go to the appropriately leveled zone to gather the ore. I use my main clothier who I'm always playing. I go to the appropriate zone with him and collect the ore I need. I can't do that in orsinium so I don't go there to gather crafting mats.

After One Tamriel I will be locked out of mid-level crafting mats and I'm pissed because there's no need to change how it works right now. My level 20 blacksmith with 50 blacksmithing will either get rubedite, void ore or whatever the level 20 ore is. As I level him he will be locked out of the lower level mats.

I mean wtf. It's idiotic.

Tulki

IMO making the entire game mandatory battle-leveled CP150/160 is a really bad idea.

I get the need to remove levels from the game, but when you do that, what are levels 1-50 even for? For that matter, what are attributes even for? Battle-leveling already effectively makes gaining attribute points cosmetic.

At a minimum, each map should have an associated base level range that is fixed, and there should be an *option* to phase into a version where both you and all enemies and quests are scaled to CP160, and quest progress only counts if you picked up the quest in the battle-leveled version of the map.

At least that way, you would have control over the difficulty you want, and you can target certain material tiers if you need to. But if you have a game where everyone is max level right off the bat and levels don't make you stronger, I can pretty much guarantee people will be baffled and leave.

Brrrofski

Battle leveling only applies to you if you're below level 50.

So it won't change anything for you op.

Asardes

I almost soloed Rani Za. I had crappy build and gear - hybrid tank - but was a breeze together with another player. I think I could solo it now, in my DD gear. Most lower Craglorn delves are soloable. But you have to play well, have good gear and CP. And CP70 is very low for Craglorn, as mobs are either CP110, il lower, or CP130 in upper. And they are typically stronger than the CP160 mobs in Cadwell's Gold areas. So I suggest leaving Craglorn and leveling there until you reach 160-200 CP, improve your build, skills and gear.

sentientomega

IF the combat difficulty post-One Tamriel launch is pretty much like current combat in the Wailing Prison at levels 1-6 in barely any gear with barely any skills, then I'll obviously be fine, as should most totally new players after a little while.

benjamino613

Arora wrote: »

NO, NO, NO, NO

yes.

Arora wrote: »

If your level 10 the mobs will be lvl 10 I dont see the problem

No.

benjamino613

But as before, all of us talking about it begs the question, surely theve realised this too!?! Perhaps theyre going to chamge the leveling
System to something noob friendly and unlike the current system in dungeons?

Asardes

One of the dangers I see with the automatic level scaling is that people will have even less incentive to explore past the 1st zone in their alliance and most will go there, power level to 50. So those zones will be even more crowded than today. I would be happier with keeping the current system for alliance zones and Coldharbour and making a separate complete "world" of battle leveled areas for veteran chars.

sentientomega

benjamino613 wrote: »

But as before, all of us talking about it begs the question, surely theve realised this too!?! Perhaps theyre going to chamge the leveling
System to something noob friendly and unlike the current system in dungeons?

I really really REALLY hope they do, because I really am the High Empress of all noobs everywhere; I'm that bad, and I really don't want to forced to group with anyone and everyone for basic stuff.

Asardes

Well, dungeons are designed to be completed by a team of 4 players. The mob and boss health is scaled accordingly and in some the mechanics are designed as such they are not solo-able (ex. Blackheart Haven, Vet. Fungal Grotto). Nevertheless, many high level and skilled players are able to solo most normal dungeons, even some veteran ones. Even average players with good gear and at the CP cap can duo most of those. Open world is designed to be played solo. So it won't scale the same way dungeons are scaled. It's like playing with normal enemies always at your level. Currently is it hard clearing level 9 solo dungeons or level 9 trash packs in the 1st alliance area when you are at level 9?

Mic1007

That is a group event for 4 people.

ADarklore

Dungeons that are 'part of the main Craglorn story' will have their difficulty adjusted to soloable range... as they've already stated, the main story will be completely soloable and all puzzles will be individual, not group activated. Dungeons that are outside of the main zone will remain group, but will be able to be completed by groups of 2 or more.

ADarklore

Brrrofski wrote: »

Battle leveling only applies to you if you're below level 50.

So it won't change anything for you op.

That's actually not true, battle leveling is now based upon CP and anyone below CP160 will be battle leveled to CP160.

ADarklore

Tulki wrote: »

IMO making the entire game mandatory battle-leveled CP150/160 is a really bad idea.

I get the need to remove levels from the game, but when you do that, what are levels 1-50 even for? For that matter, what are attributes even for? Battle-leveling already effectively makes gaining attribute points cosmetic.

At a minimum, each map should have an associated base level range that is fixed, and there should be an *option* to phase into a version where both you and all enemies and quests are scaled to CP160, and quest progress only counts if you picked up the quest in the battle-leveled version of the map.

At least that way, you would have control over the difficulty you want, and you can target certain material tiers if you need to. But if you have a game where everyone is max level right off the bat and levels don't make you stronger, I can pretty much guarantee people will be baffled and leave.

Try this if you think attribute points are cosmetic... remove ALL your attribute points and go against a CP160 mob or group boss... now try again with full attribute points and see the difference. With 64 points of Stamina or Magicka makes a WORLD of difference- not only as far as how much damage you do but also your sustainability.

benjamino613

ADarklore wrote: »

Try this if you think attribute points are cosmetic... remove ALL your attribute points and go against a CP160 mob or group boss... now try again with full attribute points and see the difference. With 64 points of Stamina or Magicka makes a WORLD of difference- not only as far as how much damage you do but also your sustainability.

Indeed. And THIS is real issue with one tamriel and newer players.

ADarklore

benjamino613 wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Try this if you think attribute points are cosmetic... remove ALL your attribute points and go against a CP160 mob or group boss... now try again with full attribute points and see the difference. With 64 points of Stamina or Magicka makes a WORLD of difference- not only as far as how much damage you do but also your sustainability.

Indeed. And THIS is real issue with one tamriel and newer players.

Agreed... but we'll have to see what One Tamriel is like on PTS before we can really make any judgements. I know I still see new players getting killed in the Wailing Prison and by mudcrabs on Khenarthi's Roost... so clearly not every player will be capable of dealing with CP160 enemies even with battle leveling. And now, you won't be able to do what ZOS used to suggest... 'go to back to a lower level zone and level up a bit more and then come back'.

Elsonso

Tomg999 wrote: »

IMHO they are going to ruin the game. I am enjoying playing my sub-level 50 chars now while I still can, picking which area I want to explore based on what level of challenge I feel like.

They have a built-in difficulty slider now, and they are removing it.

They cannot leave the game as it is. The battle-leveled DLC zones destroy the questing and XP in the game.

I have a level 42 right now that Is well beyond the quests that he should be doing. I had to move to Coldharbour just to get both monster and quest XP. I have not even finished the zone quest for the second leveling zone, and I am blocked in the main quest until I can complete Messages Across Tamriel. Edit: Normally, I would just do the grey quests, but I am waiting for PTS to see how this character would progress.

The real question is how will they fix it. I see no optimal path that does not have some drawbacks. I am expecting the quick and dirty solution, which will have more drawbacks than other solutions.

It will be interesting, and possubly disappointing, to see how they solved the various problems with leveling, questing, monsters, and resources.

Zolron

ADarklore wrote: »

Tulki wrote: »

IMO making the entire game mandatory battle-leveled CP150/160 is a really bad idea.

I get the need to remove levels from the game, but when you do that, what are levels 1-50 even for? For that matter, what are attributes even for? Battle-leveling already effectively makes gaining attribute points cosmetic.

At a minimum, each map should have an associated base level range that is fixed, and there should be an *option* to phase into a version where both you and all enemies and quests are scaled to CP160, and quest progress only counts if you picked up the quest in the battle-leveled version of the map.

At least that way, you would have control over the difficulty you want, and you can target certain material tiers if you need to. But if you have a game where everyone is max level right off the bat and levels don't make you stronger, I can pretty much guarantee people will be baffled and leave.

Try this if you think attribute points are cosmetic... remove ALL your attribute points and go against a CP160 mob or group boss... now try again with full attribute points and see the difference. With 64 points of Stamina or Magicka makes a WORLD of difference- not only as far as how much damage you do but also your sustainability.

Will they not be fairly cosmetic with the new Battle leveling system?? If I;m a new player and go to orsinium, how do my stats compare to a level 49 that goes to Orsinium ?( or any new battle leveled zone) . I'm under the impression that they will be fairly equal, other wise wouldn't it be a nightmare to balance mob difficulty? If this is the case then it does trivialize the stat points we get every level

Asardes

Imagine that. People will actually need to learn how to play even before they hit veteran ranks

benjamino613

Zolron wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Tulki wrote: »

IMO making the entire game mandatory battle-leveled CP150/160 is a really bad idea.

I get the need to remove levels from the game, but when you do that, what are levels 1-50 even for? For that matter, what are attributes even for? Battle-leveling already effectively makes gaining attribute points cosmetic.

At a minimum, each map should have an associated base level range that is fixed, and there should be an *option* to phase into a version where both you and all enemies and quests are scaled to CP160, and quest progress only counts if you picked up the quest in the battle-leveled version of the map.

At least that way, you would have control over the difficulty you want, and you can target certain material tiers if you need to. But if you have a game where everyone is max level right off the bat and levels don't make you stronger, I can pretty much guarantee people will be baffled and leave.

Try this if you think attribute points are cosmetic... remove ALL your attribute points and go against a CP160 mob or group boss... now try again with full attribute points and see the difference. With 64 points of Stamina or Magicka makes a WORLD of difference- not only as far as how much damage you do but also your sustainability.

Will they not be fairly cosmetic with the new Battle leveling system?? If I;m a new player and go to orsinium, how do my stats compare to a level 49 that goes to Orsinium ?( or any new battle leveled zone) . I'm under the impression that they will be fairly equal, other wise wouldn't it be a nightmare to balance mob difficulty? If this is the case then it does trivialize the stat points we get every level

You would get destroyed. You only get scaled to the base hp /stam/magi and you dnt grt the 49 lvls worth of atribute points. Work it out and its a massive difference

starlizard70ub17_ESO

PF1901 wrote: »

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

...
For crafting nodes, they will be on the 50/50 system already implemented in the DLC zones, whereby the node will either be your character level or your crafting level....

That would mean I will not be able to gather mats for my level 10 char with my level 50 char or am I reading this the wrong way?

The way mat gathering will work is 50% of the mats are at the level of the area you're in and 50% of the mats are at you're crafting skill level.

ADarklore

Zolron wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Tulki wrote: »

IMO making the entire game mandatory battle-leveled CP150/160 is a really bad idea.

I get the need to remove levels from the game, but when you do that, what are levels 1-50 even for? For that matter, what are attributes even for? Battle-leveling already effectively makes gaining attribute points cosmetic.

At a minimum, each map should have an associated base level range that is fixed, and there should be an *option* to phase into a version where both you and all enemies and quests are scaled to CP160, and quest progress only counts if you picked up the quest in the battle-leveled version of the map.

At least that way, you would have control over the difficulty you want, and you can target certain material tiers if you need to. But if you have a game where everyone is max level right off the bat and levels don't make you stronger, I can pretty much guarantee people will be baffled and leave.

Try this if you think attribute points are cosmetic... remove ALL your attribute points and go against a CP160 mob or group boss... now try again with full attribute points and see the difference. With 64 points of Stamina or Magicka makes a WORLD of difference- not only as far as how much damage you do but also your sustainability.

Will they not be fairly cosmetic with the new Battle leveling system?? If I;m a new player and go to orsinium, how do my stats compare to a level 49 that goes to Orsinium ?( or any new battle leveled zone) . I'm under the impression that they will be fairly equal, other wise wouldn't it be a nightmare to balance mob difficulty? If this is the case then it does trivialize the stat points we get every level

In all honesty I don't know exactly every stat that battle leveling impacts including adjustments based upon worn gear, or how they will apply it in One Tamriel. With One Tamriel, a new player coming out of the Wailing Prison would seem to be at a HUGE disadvantage... how they will offset that I'm not sure. They have yet to offer any DETAILS, which are apparently coming later this week I believe.

Khaos_Bane

Most people agree that PvE solo content is too easy, and many have suggested a difficulty slider of some sort.