Will we be able to opt out of One Tamriel's battle-leveling system?

JKorr

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

PF1901 wrote: »

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

...
For crafting nodes, they will be on the 50/50 system already implemented in the DLC zones, whereby the node will either be your character level or your crafting level....

That would mean I will not be able to gather mats for my level 10 char with my level 50 char or am I reading this the wrong way?

The way mat gathering will work is 50% of the mats are at the level of the area you're in and 50% of the mats are at you're crafting skill level.

My main smith is cp330, maxed smith/wood/clothing skills, 9 traits researched for everything. The large majority of characters I have are leveled and skilled beyond ebony and voidstone.

I have to make gear for a level 10 guildmate. I have to make gear for a level 40 guildmate.

How am I going to get the mats I need? Buying them isn't possible; I don't have unlimited gold; neither does my guild.

The 50/50 system isn't going to work well, if at all, for some crafters.

Elsonso

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

PF1901 wrote: »

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

...
For crafting nodes, they will be on the 50/50 system already implemented in the DLC zones, whereby the node will either be your character level or your crafting level....

That would mean I will not be able to gather mats for my level 10 char with my level 50 char or am I reading this the wrong way?

The way mat gathering will work is 50% of the mats are at the level of the area you're in and 50% of the mats are at you're crafting skill level.

Let's hope not. Goldilocks Game Design + Love Affair With RNG

It will be ironic that Skyrim has the better MMO crafting resource system, and it isn't even an MMO.

ADarklore

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Most people agree that PvE solo content is too easy, and many have suggested a difficulty slider of some sort.

Yet, those same people are unable to name any other MMO that offers this type of ability because it would be difficult to adjust content individually in an open-world system... the ONLY way this would work was if EVERY aspect of the game was instanced, but then it would be a single-player game, and not an MMO.

Aneca

Tulki wrote: »

IMO making the entire game mandatory battle-leveled CP150/160 is a really bad idea.

...

At a minimum, each map should have an associated base level range that is fixed, and there should be an *option* to phase into a version where both you and all enemies and quests are scaled to CP160, and quest progress only counts if you picked up the quest in the battle-leveled version of the map.

At least that way, you would have control over the difficulty you want, and you can target certain material tiers if you need to. But if you have a game where everyone is max level right off the bat and levels don't make you stronger, I can pretty much guarantee people will be baffled and leave.

I agree that scaling the player down to the existing level of a zone seems much more sensible. I'm not a coder, but I would think that taking that route would require less effort for the developers. Instead of scaling everything, including crafting nodes, up to max, it would only be the player level that changed.

IMO, scaling zones (and low level players) to CP150 removes some of the sense of accomplishment and progress. Having everyone at virtually the same level seems too much like an instant-max-level shortcut. Yes, I know new players won't have the points or skills but they also won't have the same motivation to get to level X so they may finally encounter and challenge boss Y. Why explore and do content if you can get to max CP without leaving your front yard?

STEVIL

Holycannoli wrote: »

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

For crafting nodes, they will be on the 50/50 system already implemented in the DLC zones, whereby the node will either be your character level or your crafting level.

This is what pisses me off. What if I want to gather mid-level ore for my blacksmith to craft weapons and armor for one of my alts? My blacksmith is level 50 blacksmithing but only level 20. How can he gather dwarven, ebony etc?

Right now - and how it's been since beta by the way - you go to the appropriately leveled zone to gather the ore. I use my main clothier who I'm always playing. I go to the appropriate zone with him and collect the ore I need. I can't do that in orsinium so I don't go there to gather crafting mats.

After One Tamriel I will be locked out of mid-level crafting mats and I'm pissed because there's no need to change how it works right now. My level 20 blacksmith with 50 blacksmithing will either get rubedite, void ore or whatever the level 20 ore is. As I level him he will be locked out of the lower level mats.

I mean wtf. It's idiotic.

Observation #1 Dont panic.

Observation #2 Really Don't panic. Just wait, learn and adapt.

#2a With every major game overhaul, SOME character builds used to doing CERTAIN THINGS in a precise and SPECIFIC WAY with one set SKILL CHOICES and so forth often find that in the NEW WORLD ORDER things dont work quite the same and they need to RESPEC, REGEAR and basically ADAPT to the new way things work. (See any number of threads about new meta, regear costs etc.)

#2b often right before the change is occurred, right before the final changes are formalized and the whole picture is known there are tons of tons of tons of the OMG WORLD ENDING IF THEY DO THIS IDIOTIC THING!!!" posts and threads. Just go look at all the poison threads prior to Db release. they make hilarious reading. of course, all those certain doomsayers aren't posting as prolifically to say "hey guess i got that wrong" now.

#2c While it is often that this applies to more active tactical aspects than crafting, there is no reason crafting isn't also subject to the same basic "MMO changes and characters adapt" rule.

Observation #3 just don't panic. I dont think that word means what you think it means.

#3a As Mark twain said in his inaugural address "idiotic is in the eye of the beholder. The third from the left beside the nullify magic." When they recently changed enchantments runes harvesting, even after they tweaked it, there were still plenty telling of the doom... but not the case in fact. When they revamped enchant harvesting, the also made the level control ingredients more accessible (cheap purchase for the mid-tiers) AND removed the narrow window cap on them (used to be that those potencies only covered a small band of levels but now they have no upper limit.)

#3b its quite likely when they redo the node scaling worldwide for other mats they will do some similar levelling tweaks to how that crafting works too. i would not be surprised to see NPC vendor sales of mid-level stuff at cheap prices or to see a change to or removal of in the upper limit or lower limit on mats for equipment.

#3c its not certain they will, but its also not certain they wont. they haven't released the full picture yet so... maybe idiotic is a bit premature a certainty?

Observation #4 OMG PANIC PANIC PANIC ... no wait... thats not sarin gas just a mild panic attack..

#4a its all more big picture than some people realize. If every node in every zone always scales to the character traits, then every character in every zone can pick up mats related to his character. That is a significant change allowing many more characters to harvest stuff at any zone at any time. THIS IS KEY when there is no longer a linear flow linking zone progression and level progression. It is vital and will allow much more to ALL CHARACTERS in general while yes it may not serve some needs of some specific cases.

#4b fact is, with the new progression scheme, the removal of vet ranks, we have already seen a massive drop in the need and demand for cp10-cp80 and even cp90-140 mats. Many characters just skip those mat needs now. Just this morning i was harvesting quicksilver out of reflex and wondering "why is this still in my cp160 zone?" Zone-set-mats makes no sense now and will make no sense on the BIG SCALE even more when OneT removes the linear progression by zones entirely from the levelling process.

#4c Even if some characters doing some activities certain ways have to change their operations, the bigger gains in every character getting useful mats everywhere will better serve the overall community. Sure, some folks used to making tggreat hay out of mid-tier crafting for others might have some adapting to do or might even find it not worthwhile to do that anymore (reduced need/reward for providing mats to others when every node everywhere provides useful mats for everyone and when many mid-tier levels are just skipped) but again, every major change some folks have to adapt prior activities and methods. Even with my anticipated alterations to mats-v-level-crafting, there will be changes that will affect "how things are now."

Observation #5 DIFFERENT is not PANIC

Posions destroying the game, enchantment nodes destroying enchantments, magica Op after TG, Stamina OP after Db, heavy armor useless, heavy armor OP after Db... etc etc etc... not even needing to repeat the many "meta is changing end of the world" ones... one T will be different with different demands leading to significant changes in all aspects - economy and crafting being part of that mix.

So far, nothing about OneT, battle levelling or node scaling makes me think it will be worse than having like 2/3 of the zones being ones i avoid because the harvesting in those zones is useless. In OneT you can play in whetever zones you like and collect equally useful stuff in any of them with new dailies content etc for all. That is a YUGE gain for the mass body of characters.... and if the ones who make hay out of mid-tier off-level crafting have to react and refigure a bit or learn the "new methods" of OneT crafting and adapt... thats not out of whack with what others have had to do all along.... many of whom also cried "there is no reason to change How *I* am doing things."

Zone-set linear mat nodes and narrow range material usage limiting a materials utility to a 2-4 level range are both legacy components to the byegone days of linear level progression tied to content zones. they are the horse in that older horse and buggy crafting-level-progression design. With the massive overhaul of level progression when VEt were removed and the upcoming decoupling of zones with level progression in OneT with the addition of repeatable dailies in every zone those horses need to be put to pasture so gas stations can be built to provide fuel for the cars crafted in OneT.

sentientomega

ADarklore wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Most people agree that PvE solo content is too easy, and many have suggested a difficulty slider of some sort.

Yet, those same people are unable to name any other MMO that offers this type of ability because it would be difficult to adjust content individually in an open-world system... the ONLY way this would work was if EVERY aspect of the game was instanced, but then it would be a single-player game, and not an MMO.

You could do it if you kept the Open World constant, but made the slider change player stats depending on difficulty setting, so particular need to instance anything.

I'd definitely benefit from a difficulty slider, as would people looking for the virtual equivalent of running uphill through sand; I'd set mine to, most likely, the easiest, and they'd pick whatever.

Jade1986

Dahveed wrote: »

My argument about ESO in general is that the game has vast potential which is squandered by the childishly stupid difficulty of solo questing. Literally nothing kills you ever unless you are utterly incompetent and don't know how to press buttons on a keyboard.

I like to feel like my character is relatively weak compared to the enemies but can (and will) get stronger to face the challenges by crafting, buffing, leveling etc.

In a previous forum post I put up a video of my level 7 naked, CP-less noob Nightblade running around one-shotting stuff.. then running into a pack of level 12s and killing them all without breaking a sweat.

It's hard to get excited about rolling a new character when I know how excruciatingly boring everything will be forever.

Oh the days when the game was remotely difficult. Unfortuntaely that was coupled with unbearable lag for anyone outside of the US, just compounding the problem. So instead of getting the EU datacenter up and running, they dumbed down the mobs and THEN after another 6 months got the EU servers up.

Holycannoli

JKorr wrote: »

My main smith is cp330, maxed smith/wood/clothing skills, 9 traits researched for everything. The large majority of characters I have are leveled and skilled beyond ebony and voidstone.

I have to make gear for a level 10 guildmate. I have to make gear for a level 40 guildmate.

How am I going to get the mats I need? Buying them isn't possible; I don't have unlimited gold; neither does my guild.

The 50/50 system isn't going to work well, if at all, for some crafters.

Yep that's what I'm saying. Low and mid level mats will become extremely rare if they do this and people will be stuck wearing quest rewards until they hit cp150.

Forget even buying the mats, nobody will be able to gather them in the first place unless they make crafters that stay at a particular level and crafting level to collect those level's mats.

It works OK for limited areas like Orsinium because we still have the base game zones to collect mats in, but I guess soon we won't.

It's a terrible idea and is the main reason I'm opposed to One Tamriel.

I'll give an example, and as I'm familiar with DC I'll use DC:

New player starts questing and adventuring in Glenumbra and wants to level blacksmithing. All ore nodes are iron and at his low level of 7 and 2 blacksmithing all weapon and heavy armor drops are iron. He reaches level 16 in Glenumbra while training blacksmithing to 10 and now half of all ore nodes and all drops are steel, the other half of ore nodes are orichalcum. He moves to a random zone (they're all the same now, doesn't matter which) and gets to level 26 and 20 blacksmithing. He can use that orichalcum now but now half the ore nodes are ebony. He continues this way until he's in his 40's with 35 blacksmithing.

He decides it's time to make a new character. He wants to have his main craft weapons for his new character as he levels. Surprise, he can't gather the ore he needs to supply his character. His main is too high level to gather lower level mats, and his new alt can get drops that can be deconstructed for mats but by the time he's done gathering enough to deconstruct to make a full set of armor and weapons he will have outleveled them already. Can't find any on guild vendors because nobody can gather the mats. His guild crafters don't have nearly enough of the mats because they too can't gather the mats. They suggest he just forgets all those lower level mats and focus on leveling with what he has.

That's what's going to happen.

Hallothiel

@STEVIL

Prefer horses; cars & gas stations always bad for the environment.

STEVIL

Holycannoli wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

My main smith is cp330, maxed smith/wood/clothing skills, 9 traits researched for everything. The large majority of characters I have are leveled and skilled beyond ebony and voidstone.

I have to make gear for a level 10 guildmate. I have to make gear for a level 40 guildmate.

How am I going to get the mats I need? Buying them isn't possible; I don't have unlimited gold; neither does my guild.

The 50/50 system isn't going to work well, if at all, for some crafters.

Yep that's what I'm saying. Low and mid level mats will become extremely rare if they do this and people will be stuck wearing quest rewards until they hit cp150.

Forget even buying the mats, nobody will be able to gather them in the first place unless they make crafters that stay at a particular level and crafting level to collect those level's mats.

It works OK for limited areas like Orsinium because we still have the base game zones to collect mats in, but I guess soon we won't.

It's a terrible idea and is the main reason I'm opposed to One Tamriel.

I'll give an example, and as I'm familiar with DC I'll use DC:

New player starts questing and adventuring in Glenumbra and wants to level blacksmithing. All ore nodes are iron and at his low level of 7 and 2 blacksmithing all weapon and heavy armor drops are iron. He reaches level 16 in Glenumbra while training blacksmithing to 10 and now half of all ore nodes and all drops are steel, the other half of ore nodes are orichalcum. He moves to a random zone (they're all the same now, doesn't matter which) and gets to level 26 and 20 blacksmithing. He can use that orichalcum now but now half the ore nodes are ebony. He continues this way until he's in his 40's with 35 blacksmithing.

He decides it's time to make a new character. He wants to have his main craft weapons for his new character as he levels. Surprise, he can't gather the ore he needs to supply his character. His main is too high level to gather lower level mats, and his new alt can get drops that can be deconstructed for mats but by the time he's done gathering enough to deconstruct to make a full set of armor and weapons he will have outleveled them already. Can't find any on guild vendors because nobody can gather the mats. His guild crafters don't have nearly enough of the mats because they too can't gather the mats. They suggest he just forgets all those lower level mats and focus on leveling with what he has.

That's what's going to happen.

That is ONE scenario... out of many many many many many many many many many many...

For many people, who already have more than one character at higher level, when character hit 50 they jump way beyond the scaling currently supported by the next zones in the linear progression... so they now run in zones where nodes produce mats they cant use because the zone level and their levels dont sync anymore. Those players arent stuck with basically ten zones or is it 11 zones where materials that drop are useless - serving up mat tiers (formerly vet 1 thru vet 14) that no character of theirs will ever see use for again and which are pretty much worthless.

For many people who run more than just two characters, all those "non-smith" character find iron ore etc and can provide stuff to allow that new character to level as they progress at the usual quick rate thru the 3-50 levels.

For may people, who now run many characters at many zones, every node they find produces mats related to their character level, useful either for them or by them (char level 50/50 vs skill level 50/50) - all the time everywhere. Resulting in a lot more useful mats.

For many people, etc etc etc...

yes... as stated, some folks will have to change how they work towards things under the new system... some will... SOME... but MANY will be served well by having all nodes everywhere provide mats related to the character - either usable by or usable for - and MANY will be very happy to be able to run in any zone with dailies and delves and so on and repeatable content and also see the nodes andd drops useful to them or useful for them.


This is a forest for trees.

Like with every other major game change, some prior ways to approach things will change. Its just now those used to making gold off people for mats who are looking at a major game change in terms of character's being more self-sufficient.

Currently, with my new characters, i tend to do things differently than i used to - because it works smoother even now with the current setup.

Used to be i would go for gear, craft gear etc for at the advancing characters towards the start of a mat level. Like say at lvl 4. Then not change it until the start of the next.

Now, i make the sets at lvl4... then at lvl 14 i make a new set... because my various alts find plenty of the first tierso i have them to burn (that 50/50 thing pays off.) instead of running with lvl 16 gear, i run with lvl 14 gear during the period from say 16-36. At that point i currently have to look to HARVEST THE GEAR (since my lvl 35ish gets 50/50 at his level) buy or just decide "its fine at this level gear." Either is OK.

having characater gather their own gear isn't an aberation... its the norm... and OneT supports them getting useful/usable gear everywhere anytime all the time....

Once OneT comes out and we see if they have made changes to the obsolete "mats level into obsolete after a few levels" horse and buggy restrictions like they did with enchantments, I will have other options. But even if not the character can still harvest useful/usable mats everywhere anytime always and that is just fine.

Always getting useful/usable mats anywhere, anytime everytime serves a lot more people than the current linear zone scaling nodes does and yes if that means those select few who want to gather nodes for others for profit or whatever reason shave to change current practices... well every major patch there are those who see their previous modus operandi need to adapt.

there is nowhere in any ZOS promise that while playing ESO your current way of doing X will never change... will always be the "good thing to do" etc.

EIT TO ADD Again to be clear, i expect there will also be changes in the "mats obsolete after a few levels of progression" thing in oneT, most likely making higher mats able to be used to make lower gear types - sub rubedite for quicksilver for instance or maybe use more lower to serve higher but not so much - but even if not, still better off for most.

STEVIL

Hallothiel wrote: »

@STEVIL

Prefer horses; cars & gas stations always bad for the environment.

The half dozen times or so i have been in the back of ambulances... i was really think now how glad i am they weren't horses.

Doctordarkspawn

LadyLethalla wrote: »

IMO it would have been better to to implement something like in Borderlands 2, for group dungeons and trials. If you join a friend or they join you in B2, a message pops up that says "the monsters of (whatever place name it is) just got stronger!" = meaning that there were either more of them or they got more hit points because you weren't soloing. Or both, idk.

Hopefully that is what they're doing with the Craglorn revamp.

Well, that and the fact nobody does craglorn anymore. "Hey guys! Wanna go to Craglorn? Just to be clear I intend to lisen to all the quest diologue and run in random directions!"

Nobody groups with that guy. People like to quest at their own pace

newtinmpls

jphipps85b14_ESO1 wrote: »

on Craglorn though, they have admitted (and are fixing it with the same patch) that it was much harder than they meant and after update 12, it will be doable with 1-2 (or 4) if you prefer.

Ohhhh.... bummer

STEVIL

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

LadyLethalla wrote: »

IMO it would have been better to to implement something like in Borderlands 2, for group dungeons and trials. If you join a friend or they join you in B2, a message pops up that says "the monsters of (whatever place name it is) just got stronger!" = meaning that there were either more of them or they got more hit points because you weren't soloing. Or both, idk.

Hopefully that is what they're doing with the Craglorn revamp.

Well, that and the fact nobody does craglorn anymore. "Hey guys! Wanna go to Craglorn? Just to be clear I intend to lisen to all the quest diologue and run in random directions!"

Nobody groups with that guy. People like to quest at their own pace

I am looking forward to running craglorn quests now... once 12 is live. its basically a new dlc zone for my POV.

sentientomega

They could add refined mats (has to be refined, because they're much cheaper in the stores than raw anyway) to the crafting vendors at 15 gold a unit or some such price, said price increasing with each tier upgrade of mat. Obviously, endgame mats should not be there at all.

@STEVIL

That would be an interesting way of streamlining the crafting system to accommodate One Tamriel, but none of mine would be able to gather tier 2 equipment crafting mats, because I intend to try and get all mine to level 26 before the update arrives. Not that it matters, I've got plentiful tier 2s for levelling gear crafting, with only one set being made before hitting level 26, whereupon I get some tier 3s for the better looks. My main crafters are on tier 4s for equipment, so they should have no shortage of those mats either, and I'd make sure I got plenty of them (at least 2000 of each) before getting to the next tier, aided by just doing nothing but gathering before the character's level ticks over into the next tier (in my crafters' cases, 46).

My main concern is not crafting though, my main concern is surviving solo combat under a system where the scaling is totally inadequate, to say the least.

Thevampirenight

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

Some of you seem to mis-understand the way One Tamriel is going to work.

So, the entire game, all maps, will be CP160. Your character will be battle-levelled to CP150 if you are below that.

With the way the BL system currently works, it means you will be at your most OP around level 35, when the system gives you far greater boosts than you can possibly attain once you hit CP160.

With One Tamriel, when you start a new char, you will be placed on the starter island of the faction you chose in the creator.

However, you won't need to do that alliance if you don't actually want to. When you first zone in, the wayshrines on the other starter islands for the other factions will also become available. You can wander freely around Tamriel, and all mobs will be the same strength, and it will only be you getting stronger.

For crafting nodes, they will be on the 50/50 system already implemented in the DLC zones, whereby the node will either be your character level or your crafting level.

I suspect that come implementation all that will happen is everyones chars will simply be transferred to the "gold" version of their current alliance zones if the char is parked in one.

Remember, the CP160 version of all the alliance zones already exists in the form of the Cadwells Gold areas. After that, they will switch off the old versions of the zones, and probably use the server space to allow for more phases and instances of each zone to prevent overcrowding, and for future DLC's such as Vvardenfell.

It could be possible thats what they are doing. Switching off the other zones, would be the best way to make more room in game for future content plus also adding space for housing and other things. Possibly the main reason why they are doing this in the first place. If they moved everyone to gold instance and shut off the old zones it would definitely improve performance. The game would not have to run those copies of zones. So basically they remove your faction level 1 through fifty zones, and the cadwell silver zones leaving only the cadwells gold zones basically transferring everyone to an instance of cadwells gold zones then that would leave enough room to add future content. It would also lesson the strain on the mega server.

I would expect performance to increase and the game to load up a little bit faster. Main reason they have to do this is because all those zones and server caculations take so much space it strains their systems and they would not be able to add housing without making room for it to exist. They would need to remove the cadwells silver and level three through fifty zones in order to bring the space the server needs to instance housing.

Jeremy

When the player is scaled to the zone you do not have to worry about out-leveling the content, which is a big problem on this game. After Tamriel One comes out, players will be able to enjoy the game at their own pace.

I don't see why anyone would be against this.

STEVIL

sentientomega wrote: »

They could add refined mats (has to be refined, because they're much cheaper in the stores than raw anyway) to the crafting vendors at 15 gold a unit or some such price, said price increasing with each tier upgrade of mat. Obviously, endgame mats should not be there at all.

@STEVIL

That would be an interesting way of streamlining the crafting system to accommodate One Tamriel, but none of mine would be able to gather tier 2 equipment crafting mats, because I intend to try and get all mine to level 26 before the update arrives. Not that it matters, I've got plentiful tier 2s for levelling gear crafting, with only one set being made before hitting level 26, whereupon I get some tier 3s for the better looks. My main crafters are on tier 4s for equipment, so they should have no shortage of those mats either, and I'd make sure I got plenty of them (at least 2000 of each) before getting to the next tier, aided by just doing nothing but gathering before the character's level ticks over into the next tier (in my crafters' cases, 46).

My main concern is not crafting though, my main concern is surviving solo combat under a system where the scaling is totally inadequate, to say the least.

For the scaling issue i have no idea what to tell you. My four new slot characters have all done a quest into the scalable dlc areas - at levels 4-35, without any Cp beyond 10 in the regen one for harvest passive and it wasn't by any means lethal difficulty. As such, i dont expect to see any sort of excessive survival problems after OneT. It will be tougher than now, to be sure depending on how one plays.

sentientomega

STEVIL wrote: »

sentientomega wrote: »

They could add refined mats (has to be refined, because they're much cheaper in the stores than raw anyway) to the crafting vendors at 15 gold a unit or some such price, said price increasing with each tier upgrade of mat. Obviously, endgame mats should not be there at all.

@STEVIL

That would be an interesting way of streamlining the crafting system to accommodate One Tamriel, but none of mine would be able to gather tier 2 equipment crafting mats, because I intend to try and get all mine to level 26 before the update arrives. Not that it matters, I've got plentiful tier 2s for levelling gear crafting, with only one set being made before hitting level 26, whereupon I get some tier 3s for the better looks. My main crafters are on tier 4s for equipment, so they should have no shortage of those mats either, and I'd make sure I got plenty of them (at least 2000 of each) before getting to the next tier, aided by just doing nothing but gathering before the character's level ticks over into the next tier (in my crafters' cases, 46).

My main concern is not crafting though, my main concern is surviving solo combat under a system where the scaling is totally inadequate, to say the least.

For the scaling issue i have no idea what to tell you. My four new slot characters have all done a quest into the scalable dlc areas - at levels 4-35, without any Cp beyond 10 in the regen one for harvest passive and it wasn't by any means lethal difficulty. As such, i dont expect to see any sort of excessive survival problems after OneT. It will be tougher than now, to be sure depending on how one plays.

Understatement of all time...it'll be totally impossible...

So much for this being for new players, I will test it on the PTS, and if I'm finding myself stressing too much, as I'm absolutely positive I will be, that'll be me finished with ESO for now. I really like this game, I'd rather not leave it, but I can see no other option if the devs are going to make this game super-duper hard just to appease a bunch of people who've totally monopolised forum opinion on game difficulty.

This change cannot possibly be for new players, never in a bazillion years would they make a game harder and expect new players.

I really would like to stay, but no amount of beautiful scenery, or story, or RP could possibly be worth the colossal ordeals of self-punishment I'll have no alternative to put myself through just to get anywhere in the game.

It would be something for the devs to pipe up and reassure everyone that this game isn't become a Dark Souls or Secret World type, if that is the case; if they happen to agree with my view that games should not be stress-fests...

Asardes

The problem with the actual system is that you actually outlevel the highest difficulty content in the area by reaching roughly mid way trough it, just doing the quests and killing the odd mobs. For the last quarter you are already a full 5-6 level about it, and you start getting no XP or drops from mobs, not to mention they are extremely weak and most can be one shotted even by AoE skills. I've leveled 4 chars 1-50, and another 4 from 1-15 and I encounter the same problem. All were 6-7 levels above the max zone level by the time they passed into the next one. Level 50 was reached either just before, or just after arriving in Coldharbour. This is clearly broken and I'm looking forward to the announced changes in update 12. I would be way nicer to level my remaining 4 characters trough scaled areas instead of constantly steamrolling enemies 5-6 levels below while doing the quests, getting shards, lore etc.

sentientomega

Asardes wrote: »

The problem with the actual system is that you actually outlevel the highest difficulty content in the area by reaching roughly mid way trough it, just doing the quests and killing the odd mobs. For the last quarter you are already a full 5-6 level about it, and you start getting no XP or drops from mobs, not to mention they are extremely weak and most can be one shotted even by AoE skills. I've leveled 4 chars 1-50, and another 4 from 1-15 and I encounter the same problem. All were 6-7 levels above the max zone level by the time they passed into the next one. Level 50 was reached either just before, or just after arriving in Coldharbour. This is clearly broken and I'm looking forward to the announced changes in update 12. I would be way nicer to level my remaining 4 characters trough scaled areas instead of constantly steamrolling enemies 5-6 levels below while doing the quests, getting shards, lore etc.

Sorry, but that has never ever been my experience.

ArcanusMagus

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

Wtb tamriel pre-vet-nerf

This. So much this. I was hammered each and every day of Cadwell's silver and gold when the game launched. I made it through with alot of soul gems and thoughts on ways to improve my gameplay.

Then they nerfed it. Hard.

Asardes

A concrete example: My level 48 sorcerer was spamming impulse at the level 43 mobs in Dawnmead Dolmen in north Reaper's March or simply dropping liquid lightning on the ground and the weaker went poof after the 1st or 2nd tick. With boundless storm active and the combined damage there I barely saw them spawn before they turned to bluish mist. The bigger mobs I "helped" with a heavy attack from resto staff. And the rest of my bar was taken up by useless skills I just keep there to level, without actually using them so my DPS was far from max. I didn't even bother activating the damage buff from power surge. I was soloing the dolmen for the fighters guild line increase (there's hardly anyone in the zone outside Rawl'kha).

Bonzodog01

sentientomega wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

The problem with the actual system is that you actually outlevel the highest difficulty content in the area by reaching roughly mid way trough it, just doing the quests and killing the odd mobs. For the last quarter you are already a full 5-6 level about it, and you start getting no XP or drops from mobs, not to mention they are extremely weak and most can be one shotted even by AoE skills. I've leveled 4 chars 1-50, and another 4 from 1-15 and I encounter the same problem. All were 6-7 levels above the max zone level by the time they passed into the next one. Level 50 was reached either just before, or just after arriving in Coldharbour. This is clearly broken and I'm looking forward to the announced changes in update 12. I would be way nicer to level my remaining 4 characters trough scaled areas instead of constantly steamrolling enemies 5-6 levels below while doing the quests, getting shards, lore etc.

Sorry, but that has never ever been my experience.

Look at his sig - he has 531 CP, and places them in when he starts a new char. This makes him OP from the get go. Mobs would just melt around him, 531 CP on a low level char makes them virtually unkillable and able to put out decent DPS, and he probably has one of his high levels crafting set piece armor in blue which also provides massive boosts. Thats why he finds the low level content too easy - its faceroll mode.

sentientomega

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

sentientomega wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

The problem with the actual system is that you actually outlevel the highest difficulty content in the area by reaching roughly mid way trough it, just doing the quests and killing the odd mobs. For the last quarter you are already a full 5-6 level about it, and you start getting no XP or drops from mobs, not to mention they are extremely weak and most can be one shotted even by AoE skills. I've leveled 4 chars 1-50, and another 4 from 1-15 and I encounter the same problem. All were 6-7 levels above the max zone level by the time they passed into the next one. Level 50 was reached either just before, or just after arriving in Coldharbour. This is clearly broken and I'm looking forward to the announced changes in update 12. I would be way nicer to level my remaining 4 characters trough scaled areas instead of constantly steamrolling enemies 5-6 levels below while doing the quests, getting shards, lore etc.

Sorry, but that has never ever been my experience.

Look at his sig - he has 531 CP, and places them in when he starts a new char. This makes him OP from the get go. Mobs would just melt around him, 531 CP on a low level char makes them virtually unkillable and able to put out decent DPS, and he probably has one of his high levels crafting set piece armor in blue which also provides massive boosts. Thats why he finds the low level content too easy - its faceroll mode.

Faceroll for him, not for people who don't have what he has, and all those goodies take a LOOOOOOOOONG time to get.

I saw his signature, and my point of my comment there, and apologies for not making myself clear, is that not only do I not have CPs on NA (46 on EU), new players will not have CPs either, or armour upgrade parts, or basically everything they're going to need to survive ALONE from the get-go, with basic mobs, once this thing hits live.

Asardes

Well, it was just a little harder on my 1st char, which was a hybrid build while leveling - just dropped a point in each attribute because I had no idea about how I should do it - and was using 1H+S and bow, was clad in 2-3 trait set green heavy armor and had no CP. There was basically no difficult content in the open world, not even in the gold and silver areas, which I completed in the same build. Only in Craglorn I was forced to go full stamina.

I remember how hard it was to transition from solo content in the open world to group dungeons - I did the normal one in each area for the sake of completion and skill point. The problem I see here is that people will be totally unprepared for the real game content. I've seen countless "healers" come in dungeons with a 2H sword and heavy armor or "tanks" with light armor and destro staff, with predictable results. So actually making solo content just a bit harder so people understand their skills (I suspect most don't even read the tool tip, even some that have reached level 50) and getting better at picking and using them will make it easier in the long run for them.

Passable and even very good sets require just 2-3 traits to craft so you can do them yourselves after a few weeks in the game. BiS ones rarely require more than 6. Only very specialized ones like TBS require 9 but the difference is minimal and can only be seen in really hard content, with adequate support. On my magicka builds I use 5 Armor of the Seducer and 3 Torug's Pact, which are both 3 trait craftable sets. 3 traits can be researched in a couple of weeks. If you can't craft them yourself you can join a guild and ask people to craft one. Most will do it for free if you give them the mats which you can easily get by deconstructing trash drops - which also levels your crafting.

sentientomega

I have enough bonuses for 5- and 6-trait sets, one-gem bosses (like the main story ones) in the DLC zones are still impossible, I find. Twilight/Julianos, Hunding's/Gladiator would've been good sets to use for current content, but useless, I fear, for me, in DLC zones. A little bit better than having no set bonuses, but still inadequate because the scaling is so miserly and new-/casual-player-unfriendly.

I still think a player-stat-changing difficulty slider (for PvP, auto-disable it ofc) would be better for those who do not wish to gain the ESO equivalent of a PhD in fractal geometry, I am NOT by any stretch of the imagination anything more than a simple casual player who would prefer not to be stressed to the point of dying of a heart attack just grinding basic mobs. I'm happy just to do the basic quests and main story and the like, and steer clear of group content for the most part, and RP ofc. It's really not fair that basic mobs should be trial difficulty, which I can only guess at, not having done one; they would probably literally be the death of me...

You cannot imagine how much of a chore getting wrapped up in all the maths, complex details and whatnot is, casual players are unlikely to care about that. I play a game to have fun, putting myself through virtual university just to be able to play this game is not my idea of fun, nor should it be anyone's if they don't want that.

You talk as if transitioning from the open world solo to group content is a given, and something absolutely nobody should not do. And when people say they're not interested in endgame, people like the above then question their right to be in the game. I, myself, was so challenged by some such person in swtor, after telling them how little I cared to hear their "You will be at one with the hardcores, resistance is futile" style lectures.

There should be something in an MMO for everyone, not just the "waaaaaaah make things harrderr!!!!" crowd; whose playstyles I respect, to even my surprise, now if only they'd respect those other than their own. Surely ZOS knows that the majority playing this game aren't theory-crafters or mathematical whizzes or gaming geniuses...

I want to have fun in this game, I do not want to fill my brain with a whole mass of info I shouldn't really need to know to basically survive, and that I'd never remember anyway; it's a game, it's not supposed to be a 2nd stressful life I'd be better off without.

People should not have to put themselves through nine kinds of hell just to play the basic portions of the game, but I accept that group content is different because everyone has to give their best, or else whatever it is cannot be finished. But that is no reason to shove that mentality down everyone's throats simply for even thinking about playing the game...

Despite me seeking fun, I do end up trying to learn everything I can to be better (in swtor, TERA, STO, as well as here) but only to make things easier for myself, and not to satisfy some gamers' pudding-club-type membership committee of my "worth", but to no avail in the end; I've done all I can, I CANNOT hope to be as good as any of you. It's way beyond my mere capacity...

But then nor should that even be a consideration for anyone who just wants to have some casual fun in the game, should it?

@Asardes

I do really see where you're coming from, but I could never even BEGIN to hope to understand the nuances you do; in short, become "at one" with the game, or any game really.

Asardes

The only DLC area I tried until now is IC. The casual mobs are easy to kill. Sewer static bosses are mildly difficult to kill. I've only died there when attacking the patrolling bosses above and in sewers and of course to players. If the mobs in the other DLC areas are scaled at the same level it would be a bit challenging but in no case impossible even for low level players.

sentientomega

Asardes wrote: »

The only DLC area I tried until now is IC. The casual mobs are easy to kill. Sewer static bosses are mildly difficult to kill. I've only died there when attacking the patrolling bosses above and in sewers and of course to players. If the mobs in the other DLC areas are scaled at the same level it would be a bit challenging but in no case impossible even for low level players.

At, say, lvl 6, in non-set white armour and weapons, with no CPs placed at all, and no Mundus boon?

And, since it is also a PvP area, they could've made them easier, so I would suggest trying Orsinium, Hew's Bane and the Gold Coast, because of no PvP to worry about, I'll wager enemies in those zones are stronger. I've not been to IC, and because it IS a PvP zone as well as a PvE one (that is, no immunity from any player's marauding whatsoever), wild horses wouldn't drag me there, ever.

And if there's one thing more stressful for me than PvE challenge, it's PvP ANYTHING.

Incidentally, if I can beat any one-gem boss in the outfit and at the level and with the other characteristics (or lack of) I stated above, then I'd know I'd be fine for main story and the like, when One Tamriel drops.

In every other way, I like One Tamriel; but I'm still very much in the dark, and afraid.

Asardes

At level 6 you should try level 6 mobs. For example fresh out of Coldharbour you are level 4. Mobs on starter island are level 3-4 and are pretty easy to kill. I was blasting the mobs on Bleakrock after half an hour of playing the game. It was in Beta. I also did it later with my main a few months later. I had played no other MMO before that. At no level did I have any difficulty in killing mobs at my levels or 1-2 levels above, even with crap build, gear and skill. Even soloed most bosses in public dungeons and in the open. I suspect mobs in some DLC areas use different variables for scaling and they are intentionally made harder to beat. But if they just scaled it as they scale now for the normal single player content it would be OK for 90% of players.