Do I seriously need to rely on groups now?

GuardianStriker · October 2016

Honestly, I get what they're doing with the scaling and everything. But it just comes with one flaw.

Most fights cannot be won on your own. Seriously, I prefer to fight groups of enemies and raid dungeons on my own if I can take most of the enemies down.

But now I can't do most of that now that they scale to my level. 1 vs 3 enemy battles are now more difficult and I hate having to bring friends just to win. I'm sure it's not just me that hates this part of the update. Having to rely on groups sometimes to beat most enemies or dungeons.

WhiteMage · October 2016

You don't have to group. You can still come back when you are stronger. What that entails is all that has changed. Increasing your level is not the way anymore, it is increasing your CP and improving your gear.

Abeille · October 2016

WhiteMage wrote: »

You don't have to group. You can still come back when you are stronger. What that entails is all that has changed. Increasing your level is not the way anymore, it is increasing your CP and improving your gear.

And also getting a better understanding of your class and skills.

SirAndy · October 2016

No need to group for normal content. However, the quality of your gear has become more important.

Other than that, not much has changed, the game isn't really any harder for low level characters.

disintegr8 · October 2016

Just skip the bosses you can't beat on your own if you don't want to bring others with you. A bit rude of them putting content in that you cannot solo but doesn't that just give you a bigger challenge?

I'd get bored going and defeating the same old stuff over and over again on my own. Sure, dungeons and bosses can feel repetitious, but you change characters, try different gear and skills, meet and group up with different people so runs always feel a little different.

GuardianStriker · October 2016

WhiteMage wrote: »

You don't have to group. You can still come back when you are stronger. What that entails is all that has changed. Increasing your level is not the way anymore, it is increasing your CP and improving your gear.

I feel stupid asking this, but what does CP mean? Champion points?

AzraelKrieg · October 2016

GuardianStriker wrote: »

WhiteMage wrote: »

You don't have to group. You can still come back when you are stronger. What that entails is all that has changed. Increasing your level is not the way anymore, it is increasing your CP and improving your gear.

I feel stupid asking this, but what does CP mean? Champion points?

Yup. You got it. CP=Champion Points.

Vangy · October 2016

If you are referring to world bosses, my imperial DK in his PvP spec has yet to meet one that he cannot solo. You just cant solo some bosses in full DD spec with 0 self-heals or defensive skills slotted and you really shouldnt have been able to do that in the first place imo. They are world BOSSES after all.

If you are just referring to random trash packs, just spin to win or impulse spam kills them anyway so im not too sure what the complaint is about. Maybe u might need to upgrade your gear and slot one or 2 defensive skills if need be.

GuardianStriker · October 2016

Vangy wrote: »

If you are referring to world bosses, my imperial DK in his PvP spec has yet to meet one that he cannot solo. You just cant solo some bosses in full DD spec with 0 self-heals or defensive skills slotted and you really shouldnt have been able to do that in the first place imo. They are world BOSSES after all.

If you are just referring to random trash packs, just spin to win or impulse spam kills them anyway so im not too sure what the complaint is about. Maybe u might need to upgrade your gear and slot one or 2 defensive skills if need be.

I'll be honest, I'm just really trash at this game. I'm a bow and dual wielding nightblade stamina build. I honestly don't know what I'm doing wrong. I bring potions, my gear is upgraded to my level, I use skills in battle, I bring food and drink to increase my stats and I basically just make sure I'm prepared for a fight.

I dunno if I'm preparing in the wrong ways or if I just suck at the game. Probably both.

pewbis · October 2016

This is an MMO. If you want to play solo, play Skyrim.

All sassiness aside, just find one irl or in game friend with a similar schedule as you and just always play together. I swear, it makes this game WAY more fun, and makes it twice as quick to level.

RavenSworn · October 2016

GuardianStriker wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

If you are referring to world bosses, my imperial DK in his PvP spec has yet to meet one that he cannot solo. You just cant solo some bosses in full DD spec with 0 self-heals or defensive skills slotted and you really shouldnt have been able to do that in the first place imo. They are world BOSSES after all.

If you are just referring to random trash packs, just spin to win or impulse spam kills them anyway so im not too sure what the complaint is about. Maybe u might need to upgrade your gear and slot one or 2 defensive skills if need be.

I'll be honest, I'm just really trash at this game. I'm a bow and dual wielding nightblade stamina build. I honestly don't know what I'm doing wrong. I bring potions, my gear is upgraded to my level, I use skills in battle, I bring food and drink to increase my stats and I basically just make sure I'm prepared for a fight.

I dunno if I'm preparing in the wrong ways or if I just suck at the game. Probably both.

Are you questing alone? Are you in a guild? How's your build? Just spamming skills without knowledge is akin to just bringing a hammer to a gun fight, it's possible just not necessarily a good choice. But yes, public delves, instances dungeons can't be done alone technically. (it can be done if you are maxed out on levels and have the right skills and build) but for now, grouping up is a much better option for you.

If you are afraid to deal with strangers, than join a guild, preferably one that supports questing or even casual guilds. It's a huge start to making friends and ultimately having the right people around you.

Or you can take it as a challenge and learn as much about your class, your build, rotations and see if you can manage it yourself out in the wilderness. We all start as trash somewhere. Just as we were noobs once.

Curragraigue · October 2016

Low level stam NBs have limited heal options. If you are low level and you are having trouble fighting groups of mobs try getting a 5 piece Vampire's Kiss set made for you. Also trying wearing 2 heavy (chest, legs or helm) and 5 medium pieces of armour. If you are still having problems both the bow and dual wield weapon skill lines have skills that morph to give a heal return when you attack using the skill.

Lumenn · October 2016

OT drops for us console in a few hours. Seeing posts claiming you have to group now, others saying no you don't. Seems cp is a big part of it. I honestly don't think(least I hope) zos would change the game to force grouping all the time. That was a mistake EQ1 made(one of the biggest but not the only one) this is one of the most solo friendly mmos I've tried(which isn't many) and they seem to be casual friendly.

Since you don't outlevel anything anymore I'd echo everyone's advice and get some skill points and knowledge under your belt, and come back to it if you don't have any cp.

raglau · October 2016

Lumenn wrote: »

OT drops for us console in a few hours. Seeing posts claiming you have to group now, others saying no you don't. Seems cp is a big part of it. I honestly don't think(least I hope) zos would change the game to force grouping all the time. That was a mistake EQ1 made(one of the biggest but not the only one) this is one of the most solo friendly mmos I've tried(which isn't many) and they seem to be casual friendly.

Since you don't outlevel anything anymore I'd echo everyone's advice and get some skill points and knowledge under your belt, and come back to it if you don't have any cp.

With both my CP300 NB and a lowbie Templar I've only had to group for world bosses and group dungeons (obviously). I can do everything else solo.

I like this, I was a lazy pig who solo'd everything before, despite being in a great guild, now I need to team up for a tiny %age of content. That's no bad thing in a multiplayer game, but the game is still very casual friendly. I consider myself a casual player anyway.

Lumenn · October 2016

Yeah, I have a 200 cp stam sorcerer and just started a magplar(and a mageblade but I figured a templar would be less frustrating while adjusting to the changes since everyone says they are easiest to solo. My sorcerer has 7-8 traits on most things so gtg) the sorcerer was easy to solo(my first character) but trying another class for a bit.

SanSan · October 2016

This game isn't about spamming 1 skill and standing still.
You gotta move around pal.
Let's get that carpal tunnel going!

ArgoCye · October 2016

@GuardianStriker also realise that running around in armor/weapons that are substantially under your level will penalise you heavily. Make sure you upgrade these every few levels or so so you are not a level-40 in level-10 gear. Also, try and equip complete armor/weapon sets, not just bits and pieces that give you few or no bonuses.

As a squishy low-level NB use your health pots - NBs also have a passive that gives you more ulti, so drink deep and drink often.

And never be afraid to call out for help in chat - there may be some trolls who write something dumb, but thankfully the helpful outnumber the unhelpful in Tamriel. The more you do team up, the more you will learn about playing your NB better.

IwakuraLain42 · October 2016

ArgoCye wrote: »

@GuardianStriker also realise that running around in armor/weapons that are substantially under your level will penalise you heavily. Make sure you upgrade these every few levels or so so you are not a level-40 in level-10 gear. Also, try and equip complete armor/weapon sets, not just bits and pieces that give you few or no bonuses.

As a squishy low-level NB use your health pots - NBs also have a passive that gives you more ulti, so drink deep and drink often.

And never be afraid to call out for help in chat - there may be some trolls who write something dumb, but thankfully the helpful outnumber the unhelpful in Tamriel. The more you do team up, the more you will learn about playing your NB better.

While these are in theory useful tips they are completely useless for new players. Lets take a step back down memory lane and try to remember how the game felt when you just bought it:
* After finishing a tutorial chapter that barely explains any of the important game mechanics your are just thrown in a complex world with a million to different choices to do (blacksmithing, alchemy, etc, etc). Again without any explanation how or why they are important
* So you just begin fighting/questing the starter zone, putting on anything you find. Different types of armor or sets ? The game explains nothing to you, so you just try to pick stuff.
* Crafted gear ? Again, nowhere is that explained, unless you figure it out for yourself. Few do, until very much later (my own experience)
* Potions ? Buff Food ? Again, not explained anywhere. And remember, potions have a cooldown of nearly a minute, so on average you can use one in a fight. And they where hard to find (this might have changed)

So, I'm not sure if these changes, requiring updated gears, is good for new players. I don't think that ZOS is doing itself a favor here.

ArgoCye · October 2016

That's all fair enough, @IwakuraLain42. I played from beta and understand that there is a steep learning curve. But there's plenty of time and a lot of resources online to help a player out - Deltia's site for one.

The point from most of these comments in this thread is that there is no need to panic. The newly scaled content is doable. It just may take a little time to get there, but that's cool.

IwakuraLain42 · October 2016

Yes, there is a ton of useful information out there (although hard to find at times), but my point is that players usually don't look that up until very much later. If the game actually discourages early players then most of them will stop playing. One of the points of 1T was to make the game easier for new players.

And as I mentioned the game does a really, really, REALLY poor job of explaining itself (mechanics, etc, etc). There really should be more (optional) or better tutorial quests in the (like explaining in the blacksmith quest why that is important, what traits are, why collecting and researching is required, etc)

Coatmagic · October 2016

As I log in my alts to do the witches festival runaround, am discovering many things. For instance, (so far) one of my characters current set ups is easy to kill if she gets more than 5 spawns on her. On another, survivability is heavily dependent on food which I found out last night fighting a mini anchor and was one shot by the boss when food buff dropped. How embarrassing! xD

So I will be doing some reworking in the coming months. I don't do group dungeons or pvp, and don't need to be able to take out world bosses and anchors by myself as I enjoy the comradery of the dog pile, but need to be able to quest by myself since all my friends quit long ago.

Don't give up!

Rune_Relic · October 2016

1T is much less forgiving.

Before 1T:
Food, potions, good gear, buffs, debuffs, CP were not required to complete alot of the content.
New player friendly.

After 1T:
Food, potions, good gear, buffs, debuffs, CP are required.. especially if you want to solo world bosses and such.
As is watching the mechanics for interrupts/block/dodge as they will one shot you.

So where as all the stackable buffing was 'optional' but preferable before.
Now all those stacked buffs are becoming compulsory. [Unless you team up]
Unfortunately what that usually equates to is playing whack a mole.
And many dont have the coordination or physical ability to play finger gymnastics and whack a mole at the same time.
Unless of course you use a macro... which becomes more and more unavoidable if you want to compete with physically able players.

Andohir · October 2016

Rune_Relic wrote: »

After 1T:
Food, potions, good gear, buffs, debuffs, CP are required.. especially if you want to solo world bosses and such.
As is watching the mechanics for interrupts/block/dodge as they will one shot you.

But it's not that hard to learn and use. CPs might be required for soloing world bosses, but also without them it's possible to defeat them together with other players. And it's even not necessary to form a party. Worst case: one has to wait a few minutes for others arriving there.

E.g. there is the giant bat/gargoyle(?) in Rivenspire. First we were in two and died one after the other. We tried different skills, swapped weapons, aso, nothing helped. Then a third player came along. More meal for the mob :-D It has a nasty stun and hits quite hard, additionally it follows the player a quite far distance. But we didn't surrender. After a few minutes there were 7+ players who joined the fight and together we finally killed it and its adds. It was fun and I also learned to better not get back to life on red ground^^

Especially as a new player one shouldn't care about soloing everything, I think. I play this way: trying what's possible but also growing with challenges, and not being upset when it didn't work like I thought. Then I try something different. In most cases other than world bosses, my death was an avoidable fault, because I forgot something, didn't prepare with food, had the wrong pot on q or something like that. It would be much more punishing when I lose XP a/o items on death, like in other games. In ESO1T I lose a soul stone and a bit of hubris.

probablyafk · October 2016

WhiteMage wrote: »

You don't have to group. You can still come back when you are stronger. What that entails is all that has changed. Increasing your level is not the way anymore, it is increasing your CP and improving your gear.

Yeah but that kinda annoys me. If you're having trouble with a mob at level 24 what the hell do you do to come back and beat it later with satisfaction? Level up to 50 then get CPs to 100 or so where it starts having impact? That's a long, long, time to wait to come back to something. In the old system you could come back when you were 28 and smash the things face.

I don't have these sort of problems, I'm not having difficulty problems, but for those players who do there is almost no recourse now to get 'better' beyond just getting better at their class. And that's fine but it also sends a very clear message to players about whom ZOS is courting here.

I like the One Tamriel update but I think there still needs to be a way to vary the difficulty of mobs you fight within open world and leveling up play. Specifically something that allows players flexibility over how they tackle difficulty.

p.s.
Bare in mind that getting better gear isn't a solution really either - it scales to level as well so as you get gear, your level goes up and your average stats go down. You *can* get better gear through sets or getting gear of your current level at a higher quality ... but that's a lot to ask of new players. They should have the gear they need for the standard challenges around them. Instead now it feels like gear outdates way harder on you than prior to 1T. You'd easilly wear a decent 5 set of 10 levels below and not blink before, but have you tried doing that recently? You're scaled much harder.

altemriel · October 2016

GuardianStriker wrote: »

Honestly, I get what they're doing with the scaling and everything. But it just comes with one flaw.

Most fights cannot be won on your own. Seriously, I prefer to fight groups of enemies and raid dungeons on my own if I can take most of the enemies down.

But now I can't do most of that now that they scale to my level. 1 vs 3 enemy battles are now more difficult and I hate having to bring friends just to win. I'm sure it's not just me that hates this part of the update. Having to rely on groups sometimes to beat most enemies or dungeons.

well dungeons are usually made for groups (but still can be soloed when you are skillful enought), delves can be soloed without problem even now, world bosses I believe too can be soloed, but require more skill than before 1T

failkiwib16_ESO · October 2016

Use Area-of-Effect skills to beat mobs, once you see groups of 3-4 enemies at once, it no longer pays off to use single target skills to kill with.

Have some sort of self healing skill, if needed go with a restoration staff in your backbar and cast Regeneration on yourself and swap to main weapon to kill.

I know that Regeneration is a Restoration staff skill, and it's magicka based while your build stamina based ...but it might just save your life, untill you unlock better skills and learn more about your class.

MaKTaiL · October 2016

Damn ZoS for making an MMO that requires groups to play! That's unacceptable!

lol

Trublz · October 2016

This game is a MMO.
That's Massively Multiplayer Online game. It is all built and centered around playing with others...

KingYogi415 · October 2016

Stamina nightblade can be the hardest class for a new player.

How is your animation canceling skills? Do you have vigor?

failkiwib16_ESO · October 2016

@KingYogi415 all classes have to deal with animation cancelling at endgame, vigor is a pvp skill and not needed for pve solo questing. OP is a low level who struggles at 3 mobs in solo quest content.

His issue at this point is not how skilled he is in a fight, it's his lack of basic knowledge of his class and skills in the game because we have no real tutorials. New players are penalized for not knowing what skills to slot, morphs to get and what to do if they fail at something.

Abeille · October 2016

MaKTaiL wrote: »

Damn ZoS for making an MMO that requires groups to play! That's unacceptable!

lol

Trublz wrote: »

This game is a MMO.
That's Massively Multiplayer Online game. It is all built and centered around playing with others...

There seems to be a little confusion being made here. "Massive Multiplayer Online" doesn't in any way equals "no solo content" or "mandatory group play". It means there is a massive number of player sharing a persistent online world in a game. That's all.

There are certainly games that are supposed to be played in group only, but that's not the case with all MMOs (it is not even the case with most popular MMOs) and it certainly isn't the case with a MMO that was developed based on a single player series and that therefore has a huge solo playerbase, which is ESO's case. That doesn't make these games not MMOs.

That being said, almost everything in ESO is solo-friendly, even after 1T. It is a matter of learning the ins and outs of your class and of the game. New players will benefit from learning to dodge, block and interrupt, to start using food, to keep their equipment up to date, to pay more attention to buffs and debuffs instead of only slotting skills that do direct damage. We older players had been there and done that back when veteran content was a challenge.