How do I complete dungeons without getting kicked from group?

GreasyDave · October 2016

There's just a huge disconnect between players' perceptions and reality on this. BEing good is NOT what many people here think it is.

I don't get a lot of time to play - max an hour a day. I take time out from the game. So I'm "casual" if you want to call me that. BUT, I understand the most of the mechanics regards stam builds.

I'm at a point where I'm "between" levelling and endgame. I've got 200 CP's. I've just run a new stam DK up to lvl 50. And I hit the dps wall. I don't have the mats for 160 cp gear. I don't have the money to buy end game or BiS stuff. I put together what I can scrape together.

I run purple self-crafted sets (140CP). I have a good rotation - I spend time on other forums and research which skills to use, what rotation. I get good advice from experienced players about what sets, traits etc to use. I animation cancel. I use tri-pots and the appropriate food. I'm putting the best build I can together for the time I have available to grind out mats and still enjoy time actually playing.

And as a stam DK my dps is god awful. I'm not going to post it here - but it is lower than the tank I regularly group with

It is that bad!

I know where I need to be. I know how to get there - better gear being the bottom line. BUT there is block in the way for me to achieve that 15k + dps (I see 15k as the minimum - not best) - the amount of time I have to play. That's the bottom line.

So I kind of get annoyed by hostility in PUGs and on this forum. BEing aa "good"player is not just a question of git gud - or how many CP's you have - the main barrier to getting better and better dps is gear which means time investment. My dps is low? I have a life outside of tamriel. YEs it exists

Just because I don't have as much time to play as others, does that mean I shouldn't try vet dungeons?

Bottom line is, if you join a pug - be excellent to each other. Noone knows anything about the lives of the others in the group. So someone doesn't pull excellent dps -it doesn't mean they're a loser who can't play - they might be doing their damned best to get better. Carry them along a little. IF you wipe more than twice, explain politely why it's not working and leave.

As a rule I don't run the vet dungeons I know are hard. I also run with a tank who is very "cool" and despite dpsing more than me, is happy to carry me as I slowly earn the gear and learn the trade. WE sometimes group with guildies, we sometimes group with the finder. WE sometimes wipe, we mostly win. Bottom line it's cool. But if it goes pear-shaped, the tank, who is a "good" player -doesn't sulk that I'm not good enough and not pulling my weight. More people need to learn from his/ her example.

lardvader · October 2016

Best tip regardless of level is find a guild that run pledges. If you're on pc try to join someone with teamspeak so you can communicate (and make some new friends

).

In the meantime try to find ppl at aprox same level. I would also grind CP at least to lvl. 160 so you can get some max gear.

MakoFore · October 2016

guys are just farming sets by the drove s now . monster sets are so desired- and hard to come by- player want to run them 10 times to get a sets, likewise- underpowered players are running them to get better. its noone s fault but the grouping need s to put people in at a same level who are after the same thing - be it a challange/ a mask / or just fun.

Cherryblossom · October 2016

Hazel_knox wrote: »

I have a champion level 90 Sorc, with a seducer set, and ashen grip set as a secondary/extra. Since the update i've been in dungeons and not one has been completed. Every group disbands or I get kicked because there is not enough dps. What do I do? I beat a lot of people in duels, Soloing is just fine for me, and I feel like I hit hard. So what is going on? Do they kick me just because they see my number is smaller? 90 cp instead of 500+

Is there a way to dungeons, or am I stuck in the "You're not strong enough" loop, so I'll never be able to get better gear?

you say you are good at duels, does this mean you are set up for single target burst!

For group content you need more AOE and sustain for the mobs and boss.

I did Dire Frost Keep last night, with a group as the tank, but the DPS did not have the output to get the last bosses health to go down! (I did send a message to the two DPS offering to help them with gear and rotation, but I assume they thought I was being snarky)
Thankfully they left the group and the next two blasted her down in about a minute.
DPS is very important in some encounters, sometimes you can ignore the fact and have a long protracted fight and still win.

You are also not meantioning if you die a lot? Sometimes you get a person who spends their time standing in stupid, these people get kicked most of the time, it's a waste of stones and time.

Whilst it nice to educate people, but some people won't listen to advice as they think their right, even when the evidence is pointing to the opposite. It's at this point even I reach for the vote button.

Wolfhammer · October 2016

Johngo0036 wrote: »

@Hazel_knox - If you are on EU PC megaserver look me up, i will gladly run dungeons with you @Johngo0036 is my ingame account,

@Hazel_knox yeah so will I - Got a 37 Temp healer and a new lvl 17 Stam Sorc/summoner - I'll run normal's anytime pretty much.

Kodrac · October 2016

Hazel_knox wrote: »

Holy moly I did not expect this much people.

@Kodrac The people I know are traders, nobody's good at PVE/PVP

That's because people in MMOs are competitive, even when giving advice. Sometimes it's more dictating than advice and they don't realize, or possibly care, to look at it through the perspective of being new. Too often people expect everyone to know everything immediately.

My guild is a trader guild too but we'll have nights when someone wants to try out their new character in a dungeon or a new set up or whatever and we'll run a normal or a random just to get the feel of things. And that's what I meant by running with people you know. You get a chance to feel out the dungeons, your skill and your guildies. You gain a familiarity with each other even if you're not good at it yet and can learn and progress in a comfortable environment.

Otherwise, the toxicity you see in this thread is what you end up with in dungeon finder. Everyone's an expert and no one is ever wrong. That's why I avoid it like the plague.

Bigevilpeter · October 2016

well you just said group gets disbanded because of low dps, so thats why.

advice, grind till cp160 then go for engame gear and things should be a lot better.

another way, roll a healer or tank till you get to ok cp level people will accept you more if you are at low cp if you are a tank or healer

worst thing ever is a low damage slow run.

AhPook_Is_Here · October 2016

I wouldn't mind if they just made new players who level from 49 to 50, and old players, start their first cp rank at cp 160.

You should be sure you know how to play, that's a big part of kicking. If you are a sorc and all you do is light attack and hard cast crystal blast, people are going to raise an eyebrow after a few trash pulls.

The problem is the content in all the solo stuff and leveling areas are so easy you can do them naked with a white ornate weapon and you will still never be taught to block or interrupt or move out of harmless red circles. 2 years ago the gold and silver levels really gave you a decent training in the basics of animation canceling (the core concept of the game and dps), blocking, dodging, interrupting and moving.

Now your first lesson in game-play is with 3 other people. They may or may not want to help, but they will still have to compensate for your lack of real training in the games methods.

The best thing you can do is get some CPs, and learn about your class and how to play it. learn about animation canceling, and at least be able to hold 10-15k dps. Another alternative is to just learn to tank or heal. Both of those roles are harder to fill, and you won't be kicked and you will often be the party leader. Tanking is the easiest role in this game. For most vet dungeons you can just taunt, bock heavy attacks and use a basic buff rotation and be considered an acceptable tank.

old_mufasa · October 2016

I have to ask OP: are you trying to do vet dungeons at your CP or normal.. I don't see hardly anyone ever get kicked out of normal.. unless its a person queing for a role they had no intention of doing.. such as the people who que all three roles but cant heal or tank.. they normally get kicked..

If you queing vet at your CP level.. ya that's normal to get kicked unless your CP 300+

Asardes · October 2016

Seducer is a magicka set, ashen grip is a stamina set. It makes no sense combining those on a build.

Cously · October 2016

newtinmpls wrote: »

Cously wrote: »

From a business standpoint is simple. As a pug, you aren't worth an investment. Let me explain by using a personal example. I never pug, always I go do pledges is with friends or I don't even bother. Time is precious and I want to squeeze as much of it as possible. The only way I join pugs is when a friend ask my help and I'll tank for him and then he brings pugs or grope finder, I won't let my friend down in that case.

My mileage varies.

I am online very intermittent hours, and I work a LOT. So despite my guild memberships (and I am part of some wonderful guilds) I'm rarely doing undaunted with them. I often go with pugs. By far the most annoying frustrating people to do a delve with are the min-maxed "I do this 5,000 times a day to farm" speed runners.

When I'm healing, if they get to damn far ahead, I don't cry when they die.

The most fun are people who are relaxed, who ask or answer questions, who make silly or cool comments, who have cute pets or who ask about mine.

Time is precious and I'm here to have fun, and for me, its the interacting, the given and take and the participation in the world and with others that is joyful.

It's why I don't PUG. Anyone who wants to farm dungeons for their sets and pug then complain is stupid in my opinion. Just like alcohol when driving, you knew the risks of doing so. I used to think like you but after a couple of years I got jaded to stop and help people who won't have use for me in the future.

ZOS_JohanaB · October 2016

Several post have been removed because they were not bringing anything to the conversation. As you continue to post on here remember; be civil, be constructive, and follow the Community Rules.

Hazel_knox · October 2016

@ZOS_JohanaB That was kind, ty

@AlnilamE You would help me craft?

@Oreyn_Bearclaw I need to be honest with you, I barely made it through any of my math classes, going through school. Is this all data I'm actually analyzing? Or it it simple numbers that you can compare to other people?

@NewBlacksmurf I wasn't dying a lot unless the entire group died, what else could there be besides low DPS? People want results, I'm a dps, I don't attack extra mobs, I stay out of Aoe's, I may not know how to DPS well but I feel like Id o everything else at least at an adequate level.

@Johngo0036 Sorry I'm American (>^.^)>

@lardvader I found one, I'll try giving them a go

@Cherryblossom I'm good vs people close to my level, since everyone in this game is so tanky and duels take anywhere from 1-5 minutes Iwould consider my damage to be over time, not really bursty.
I also don't die often, I have Hardened ward, and a healing Pet.
And dire frost was the one I got kicked from the other night...

@Wolfhammer Sorry USA (> ;_; )>

@Bigevilpeter Maybe I can try tanking

@AhPook_Is_Here what exactly is 15k dps? I can get Soul strike and I've done 15k Dps in one ult? Alot of people are assuming I just know what all these terms are and I feel like I wouldn't be here if I simply understood what everyone is talking about.

@Asardes That's all I had access to, I wasn't implying that my build was based around around that, or that I thought it was a great build. It's all I had at the time, because I couldn't make anything else. I know that already...

Oreyn_Bearclaw · October 2016

Hazel_knox wrote: »

@ZOS_JohanaB That was kind, ty

@AlnilamE You would help me craft?

@Oreyn_Bearclaw I need to be honest with you, I barely made it through any of my math classes, going through school. Is this all data I'm actually analyzing? Or it it simple numbers that you can compare to other people?

@NewBlacksmurf I wasn't dying a lot unless the entire group died, what else could there be besides low DPS? People want results, I'm a dps, I don't attack extra mobs, I stay out of Aoe's, I may not know how to DPS well but I feel like Id o everything else at least at an adequate level.

@Johngo0036 Sorry I'm American (>^.^)>

@lardvader I found one, I'll try giving them a go

@Cherryblossom I'm good vs people close to my level, since everyone in this game is so tanky and duels take anywhere from 1-5 minutes Iwould consider my damage to be over time, not really bursty.
I also don't die often, I have Hardened ward, and a healing Pet.
And dire frost was the one I got kicked from the other night...

@Wolfhammer Sorry USA (> ;_; )>

@Bigevilpeter Maybe I can try tanking

@AhPook_Is_Here what exactly is 15k dps? I can get Soul strike and I've done 15k Dps in one ult? Alot of people are assuming I just know what all these terms are and I feel like I wouldn't be here if I simply understood what everyone is talking about.

@Asardes That's all I had access to, I wasn't implying that my build was based around around that, or that I thought it was a great build. It's all I had at the time, because I couldn't make anything else. I know that already...

As for the addons I mentioned, there is no fancy math you need to do. FTC and Combat metrics will both give you a raw DPS number for a given fight, pretty self explanatory. The nice thing about Combat Metrics is that it shows uptime percentage (based out of 100%) of your buffs, so you can see how well you keep them up. Again, no fancy math required.

Remember almost any DPS build is going to have a lot in common:
-You will have a spam skill. This is a skill you spam when everything else is running. Molten Whip and Force Pulse are great examples of single target spam sklls and Steel Tornado and Impulse are examples of AOE spam skills.

-You will have self buffs. These are skills you cast to buff your stats in some way. Examples include Molten Armaments, Mercless Resolve, Structured Entropy, Surge, etc.

-You will have enemy Debuffs. These are skills that debuff (lower) the enemies stats in some way. Examples include Engulfing Flames, Reapers Mark, Elemental Drain, Power of the Light.

-You will have Damage over Time (DOTs). These are skills you want to cast and let run their course. Take burning embers. If you spam it over and over, it wont do much damage. But if you cast it and let it run its course, it does a lot of damage for one press of a button. One of the biggest pitfalls people run into is that they reapply DOTs to early. This is where a Addon like Srendarr is highly useful. As a general rule, DOTS are only worth casting if they have a chance to run their full course. DOTS do not stack with themselves, but the do stack with other DOTs. Some magic DK builds are based on the premise of keeping 7-8 DOTS going at once.

-You have executes. These are skills that replace your spam skll at a given health level on the boss. Templars, NBs, and Sorcs all have class executes.

Not all rotations will contain all things, and some skills serve more than one purpose (engulfing flames is both a debuff and a DOT for example). The real trick to any DPS build is to put skills together that compliment one another, and then its about keeping up your DOTs/Debuffs/Buffs as close to 100% of the time (without over casting) and then weaving your spam skill when you have nothing else to do. Combat Metrics is great for telling you where you are screwing up.

Hazel_knox · October 2016

@Oreyn_Bearclaw I guess add ons are my next step

Oreyn_Bearclaw · October 2016

Hazel_knox wrote: »

@Oreyn_Bearclaw I guess add ons are my next step

Ha! They certainly help. I am always impressed when I see console players getting Flawless Conqueror or VetHM completions in trials. PC players have it easier, no question.

purple-magicb16_ESO · October 2016

SquareSausage wrote: »

Low CP always have a hard time getting groups

Its quite common for them to be kicked from harder dungeons and vets.

I didn't think level mattered anymore b/c of scaling. I'm still trying to figure out exactly how the scaling is working so I can tell what he impacts are. I understood that if two players were duelling, for example, cp 90 and cp 531 didn't matter b/c they're scaled so they would both be cp 531. No? Not being sarcastic or anything, different things people are saying have me confused.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · October 2016

do normal versions until cp 160

AhPook_Is_Here · October 2016

Hazel_knox wrote: »

@AhPook_Is_Here what exactly is 15k dps? I can get Soul strike and I've done 15k Dps in one ult? Alot of people are assuming I just know what all these terms are and I feel like I wouldn't be here if I simply understood what everyone is talking about.

When people say DPS they are usually talking about average damage on a single target over a period of at least a minute or longer. It's quite easy for well geared and high cp players to break out above 100k dps on trash packs in the second or so it takes to push 2 or 3 buttons and kill them all but usually when people are talking about sustained dps they are talking about single target. It's not a rule, just an expectation for theoretical output.

altemriel · October 2016

learn basic game mechanics, learn your role, get proper gear and build, (most important:) find a group of players, that are not elitist *****, nor s*t*up*i*d immature kids - there you go

newtinmpls · October 2016

"Cously wrote: »

Anyone who wants to farm dungeons for their sets and pug then complain is stupid in my opinion. Just like alcohol when driving, you knew the risks of doing so. I used to think like you but after a couple of years I got jaded to stop and help people who won't have use for me in the future.

Well my take is definitely different than yours.

I share a run/undaunted/pledge with people because it's fun. It's not just me helping them - it's us sharing an experience. We may never meet again, but hey, that's okay.

I don't need to view them as any kind of investment that I will "have use for" in the future.

I enjoy the conversation, the learning (and it always goes both ways - there is always something I hadn't thought of).

Wir2ality · May 2017

what level should one be to play Ruin of Muzuntun vet ??

FlyLionel · May 2017

Wir2ality wrote: »

what level should one be to play Ruin of Muzuntun vet ??

@Wir2ality that's the most difficult vet dungeon in the game as a whole, you don't need max cp but anywhere close to it is acceptable. You'd need a strong build and communication with your group though, there are DPS checks and technical mechanics throughout the boss fights. I got both the DLC skins and don't even think about going into VMazzatun unless it's a group I personally make to get it done; with mic's.

TL;DR Almost capped level; mainly about mechanics/skill/group as a whole. A game.

Zyrudin · May 2017

Regardless of the sets (premature at this point), you should focus on building your rotation. Don't worry about pressure, just be really basic to begin.

Get a string of Buffs > DoT's (Damage over Time) > Direct Damage and perform them in as much a fluid motion as you can.

Keep an eye on the buff indicator. Let's say a Major Sorcery buff lasts for 15 seconds. This means that you need to try to fit in a sequence of attacks that last more or less that time, so that the first step of each cycle is buffing Major Sorcery again. All DoT's should, in principle, be applied at the beginning of the sequence, so that the full damage is dealt during that time frame. Deal a few direct damage attacks in between refreshing your DoT's until the buff is about to expire and you come back to it and start the sequence again.

After you get these basics, then you can develop (or browse for, your choice) other knowledge about the abilities and sets that work best for what you are able to deliver.

Do not be disheartened if you feel you cannot pull it as a DPS. If so, go for Tank or Healer and learn those roles - there's a shortage of them and you will usually get quickly queued for content.

Massive_Stain · May 2017

You said you beat people in duels. That tells me that you are not speced for PVE. 5 Julianos, 3 wp, monster set or good two piece (torugs pact). Make it purple. Level yourself higher and get to 160.

AnnieK · May 2017

OMG...Elitism - ugh! If a group is doing OK and moving through , there is NO reason to kick. If a group just isn't working well then maybe abandoning is the better choice. A game should be fun to play, not a ton of work but then I would say you really should run normals til you know the dungeons well and feel confident that you can contribute to a group before ramping up the difficulty. I admit, I'm an ESO noob but I spent many years (10) in WOW watching Elitism grow and make the game no longer fun, watching my friends and husband get kicked from smooth runs because some Elitist didn't like what he saw on a DPS meter...I really didn't ever get kicked because I was always a healer for raiding but often left when my friends were kicked. Finally I left the game all together due to Elitism and gating.

I'm loving ESO so far but really hate seeing the rise of Elitism here too and frankly have so far avoided dungeons because I do not want to see the kind of attitude I suspect exists there in ESO. I do have a couple max level toons around cp 248 that I will eventually tweak and attempt some dungeon runs with.

Rouven · May 2017

This is so 2016.

Absalon · May 2017

Do not get back before 160cp to a veteran dungeon, or I will kick you. Show some respect and run normal dungeons till that.

Rianai · May 2017

Am i just super lucky with dungeon finder groups or are people exaggerating with all those "elitists" that would kick low level and/or inexperienced players on sight?

I mean, i started playing the game 2 months ago, joined my first normal dungeons way below level 50, started with veteran runs just recently with about cp 200. Now i have done all normal dungeons (except shadow of the hist dungeons) multiple times and most of them at least once on veteran mode - everything via dungeon finder - and i never got kicked or saw another one being kicked (and at least on normal there are a lots of new players). Even if those runs were not always fast or without wipes, people usually continued the run till the end. Probabaly because completing a dungeon slowly is still less wasted time than leaving or kicking and waiting for another one, that might end up being even worse. Only 2 times a dungeon was not completed (1x normal White Gold Tower and 1x vet City of Ash 2) and in those cases people started leaving by themselves instead of kicking someone.

@Hazel_knox
As some have already mentioned: Make sure to join normal dungeons. Maybe you accidentially entered veteran dungeons, because they are on top of the list once they got unlocked (almost happened to me at lvl 45). Veteran dungeons can be quite frustrating or even impossible with lack of dps. Normal dungeons on the other hand can be completed by inexperienced players with low level and bad gear just fine, so there isn't really a reason to kick anybody, and as i mentioned above, i didn't experienced that issue at all. Avoid veteran dungeons below cp 160 and until you can complete the normal versions without any problems.

ArvenAldmeri · May 2017

Axorn wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

Hazel_knox wrote: »

I have a champion level 90 Sorc, with a seducer set, and ashen grip set as a secondary/extra. Since the update i've been in dungeons and not one has been completed. Every group disbands or I get kicked because there is not enough dps. What do I do? I beat a lot of people in duels, Soloing is just fine for me, and I feel like I hit hard. So what is going on? Do they kick me just because they see my number is smaller? 90 cp instead of 500+

Is there a way to dungeons, or am I stuck in the "You're not strong enough" loop, so I'll never be able to get better gear?

1. Are you entering Vet dungeons ?
2. Your armor setup is not optimized for DPS
3. You should get 160cp at least so you can upgrade your gear at least purple and get gold enchants on them
4. Prolly you dont have good jewelry
5. Dont enter Vet dungeons till get 160cp its just so easy nowadays just get to 160
6. Get gold weapons
7. Find and test optimized dps rotation
8. Learn the boss tactics get 18k health at least(with food)

Easy to craft gear suggestion:

5x julianos
3x torugs pact
3x willpower jewelry

Get these 160 and upgrade to purple enchant them all with magicka make them all divines and use atronach mundus.

Lots of people don't realize, but some armor pieces are bigger than others, and this affects the glyphs.

A c160 kuta magica glyph will give less if it is put on a hand slot than if it is put on a chest slot. Head, chest, legs are the 3 'full strength' glyph locations. Feet, hands, waist, and shoulders will chop that glyph in half.

So, while divines will give the same percent boon no matter if it is on a chest or a boot, if you take the glyphs into consideration you get more by making those 3 full strength pieces as Infused, so you get the full strength glyph *plus* the infused trait increase.

It's a balance across multiple categories, when you factor in undaunted passive. You'll hope for 5 of your main armor weight, then 1 of each of the other types.

Mine, example

Chest - infused - light
Legs - infused - light
Feet - divine - light
Hands - divine - light
Waist - divine - light
Head - monster - heavy (hidden)
Shoulder - monster - medium

Undaunted passive gives a 3% increase to my pools, for the low low cost of taking advantage of gear mechanics. Most often, the random generator doesn't coordinate with you. If I was stuck with my monster set as both heavy or both medium, I would make the belt into whichever weight I needed, with minimal impact of the look of the character.

Atro mundus, if you run out of magica. Otherwise, run Mage for a bigger max pool or Apprentice for spell penetration.

No dude ful divines are way better you get huge benefits from mundus stones with infused on 3 pieces you get like 600 extra magicka from enchants which is kind a useless next to huge bonuses from mundus stones especially with twice born star set

It depends on your setup and your mundus. Sometimes it's better to go infused on the big pieces and divines on the small pieces, and sometimes it's better to go full divines. If you're using Twice Born Star it's always better to go all divines.

Nope according to my math full divines is always better on every set. Also it gives you flexibility to change your stats and your mundus and if you need extra pool you can get mage or tower and get extra 700 magicka

Infused on big piece is better for mag sorc running moondancer. Trust me, or trust Yolo. As you want. Either way, dont say "always" when you dont know much about all the possibilities.