You NEED to delay the release of housing.....

ParaNostram · October 2016

PurifedBladez wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

PurifedBladez wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

PurifedBladez wrote: »

Housing is a desperation call from zos. They're just putting it in there now because it will keep the game alive for some more time and, probably result in some good profits on the way out. Thats also why crown crates are being put in. Make no mistake it's the beginning of the end.

Yes, making a free DLC after an earlier free DLC is a desperation call to make some money on the way out. YUP. TOTALLY TRUE. OMG WHY DIDN'T I SEE IT BEFORE!?!?!?!?!

Seriously @PurifedBladez ease up on the doom saying, alright? This game is doing the best it has in since like launch.

Uhh all they did was combine factions and add sets. I mean you can almost say it had to be free.. lol or how would it work for the players that didn't purchase it? Combining the playerbase supports my claims.

You think this is the best this game has been doing since launch? That's hilarious. If that was the case One Tam would of never happened. They're trying to bring back everyone and anyone now not with content and bug fixes but with profit driven gimmicks to get you to make a quick purchase.

I literally can't even with you, you're just too odd to even with. Your logic... I... What? One Tamriel is a complete overhaul of the game btw not a small thing. How is it a cash grab? I don't understand? Or free player housing done entirely with in game gold, how is that a cash grab? If you were talking about just the crates, you'd have an argument. The bugs, contrary to doom sayers such as yourself, have gone down overall. They release new content incredibly frequently (I want to say more frequently than any other MMO on the market but unlike you I prefer not to make claims that I'm not certain can be backed up).

Just... I have no words for you, good sir. Perhaps I should communicate in memes instead.

Lol personal attacks? When did I say it was a cash grab? Did you ever read what I wrote. All I said about one tamirel is that it supports my claims of a dying game by the need to combine the factions. You may not notice it now because it just released but, you'll see in time.

If you think housing will not have in game crown store purchases then you are wrong. Maybe not when it releases but, they will definitely find there way to the store. Guarantee there's some stuff for housing in those crates.

How can you honestly say the bugs have gone down? Crashes still occur, sets are still bugged, some parts of the game are unplayable, *** there's a thread on here at least everyday talking about some bug, exploit, etc.

How can you not see that ZOS is preparing for the end of this game as well? Combining factions and setting up some serious fluff.

[quote="PurifedBladez;3433071 profit driven gimmicks to get you to make a quick purchase.[/quote]

Sorry, you said profit driven gimmicks and not cash grab, whoops, my goodness, those mean entirely different things woooooooopsie daisy! How can I live with my shame!

How can I say bugs are down? I'm experiencing less of them and I play the game. NEXT!

This game isn't going to end soon, a major overhaul does not mean the game is just going to end, if the game was going to end they wouldn't have done a major overhaul to be released for free as that is a long term investment. If the game was going to end, just end one day like you seem to think with no warning ahead of time, they would have brought out the big guns and released the Vvardenfell expansion they've been working on in whatever form it currently exists. It would appeal to the nostalgic fans of Morrowind, it would cost money to play, and they could make a buck. Instead, there are two free DLCs, free DLC is a long term investment, how can you not understand this?

Elsonso · October 2016

andreasranasen wrote: »

"Please stop thinking of your wallets"... But One Tamriel was free? There are different departments at ZOS doing different things. The people laying out future content are not the same people dealing with bugs. OP post is not a valid argument.

OP has a valid argument, which I don't agree with.

It is too late for Update 13, and even Update 14, but if they are holding to what they said earlier, the "One Tamriel Team" is going to be working on Update 15. This may not be literally what happens, but it is good enough for this discussion.

Art, animation, writing, systems, UI, programming, audio, etc... they all form a team for an update to generate new content. Rather than doing something new for that Update, make it an update of bug fixes. There is no reason they cannot get together to work on bug fixes instead of new content.

The argument is valid, as I have said, but I do not subscribe to that thinking. Rather, I would prefer that they fix bugs every Update, and assign the resources necessary to develop new content and address problems with the game simultaneously. I would prefer that they address systemic faults in how they do development to ensure that defects are found earlier, and fixed earlier, so that the number of defects that hit live, and thus need to be fixed later, is greatly reduced.

Whatever specific process they are using for their development -> build -> QA -> Live pipeline, I wish they would tell the world. I would really like to know. This has been a long term process problem that, while they have addressed in the past, is obviously not something they can fix permanently.

ParaNostram wrote: »

One Tamriel is a complete overhaul of the game btw not a small thing. How is it a cash grab? I don't understand? Or free player housing done entirely with in game gold, how is that a cash grab?

It may not be an overt cash grab, but it is definitely not being done out of the kindness of their hearts. There is no altruism here. It is not being done without compensation. They expect to be paid for One Tamriel, and Housing, and whatever else comes in 2017. There is a pay day for ZOS, and I am not talking about the candy bar. If they don't get paid, they will simply make changes to compensate. I think they will have no trouble getting paid.

Korah_Eaglecry · October 2016

Full Steam Ahead!

ParaNostram · October 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

"Please stop thinking of your wallets"... But One Tamriel was free? There are different departments at ZOS doing different things. The people laying out future content are not the same people dealing with bugs. OP post is not a valid argument.

OP has a valid argument, which I don't agree with.

It is too late for Update 13, and even Update 14, but if they are holding to what they said earlier, the "One Tamriel Team" is going to be working on Update 15. This may not be literally what happens, but it is good enough for this discussion.

Art, animation, writing, systems, UI, programming, audio, etc... they all form a team for an update to generate new content. Rather than doing something new for that Update, make it an update of bug fixes. There is no reason they cannot get together to work on bug fixes instead of new content.

The argument is valid, as I have said, but I do not subscribe to that thinking. Rather, I would prefer that they fix bugs every Update, and assign the resources necessary to develop new content and address problems with the game simultaneously. I would prefer that they address systemic faults in how they do development to ensure that defects are found earlier, and fixed earlier, so that the number of defects that hit live, and thus need to be fixed later, is greatly reduced.

Whatever specific process they are using for their development -> build -> QA -> Live pipeline, I wish they would tell the world. I would really like to know. This has been a long term process problem that, while they have addressed in the past, is obviously not something they can fix permanently.

ParaNostram wrote: »

One Tamriel is a complete overhaul of the game btw not a small thing. How is it a cash grab? I don't understand? Or free player housing done entirely with in game gold, how is that a cash grab?

It may not be an overt cash grab, but it is definitely not being done out of the kindness of their hearts. There is no altruism here. It is not being done without compensation. They expect to be paid for One Tamriel, and Housing, and whatever else comes in 2017. There is a pay day for ZOS, and I am not talking about the candy bar. If they don't get paid, they will simply make changes to compensate. I think they will have no trouble getting paid.

My point is these are long term investments in the game and the players, rewarding loyalty and faith to a degree. I know the long term goal is profit, I just wanted to point out these are not blatant cash grabs but forward thinking plans to improve and profit off of the game. Blatant cash grabs are short sighted attempts at beating profit out of something.

alexkdd99 · October 2016

Baranthus wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

You do not NEED to delay the release of housing.....

Ummmm, yes they do.

Woeler wrote: »

Content creation and bugfixing are two entirely different teams/departments. You can't just put content creators on a bugfixing team because it is needed.

So basically what you are saying is the content creators create the bugs but a DIFFERENT team who aren't involved in content creation are assigned to fixing said bugs? And thus, not having the requisite knowledge to address content creation bugs are then placed in the precarioius position of further compounding existing issues due to being prt of a seperate team. Having a seperate team JUST to address bugs would seem like a rather expensive acknowledgement of underskilled content creators?

Woeler wrote: »

Some people are really narrow minded when it comes to business structures.

Please, elaborate and share your extensive and, indeed, volumaic knowledge on this subject and bestow a fraction of your benevolent wisdom for us all?

You must not be aware of how large programs are created or fixed. You could have 5 people working on the same program but each person not know what the next is doing. Or have 5 teams with each team not knowing exactly what the next is doing. That is how it works.
Also programs have documentation in them so that other people are aware of exactly what everything in the program does.

Elsonso · October 2016

alexkdd99 wrote: »

You must not be aware of how large programs are created or fixed. You could have 5 people working on the same program but each person not know what the next is doing. Or have 5 teams with each team not knowing exactly what the next is doing. That is how it works.

You may have identified exactly what is wrong with the development process used by ZOS.

cjthibs · October 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

You must not be aware of how large programs are created or fixed. You could have 5 people working on the same program but each person not know what the next is doing. Or have 5 teams with each team not knowing exactly what the next is doing. That is how it works.

You may have identified exactly what is wrong with the development process used by ZOS.

ANY large software product is developed this way.
It is humanly impossible for one person to code it all or even know how in something this large and complex.

alexkdd99 · October 2016

PurifedBladez wrote: »

Housing is a desperation call from zos. They're just putting it in there now because it will keep the game alive for some more time and, probably result in some good profits on the way out. Thats also why crown crates are being put in. Make no mistake it's the beginning of the end.

And where did you obtain your crystal ball to look into the future?

Izaki · October 2016

You know that there are different teams assigned to bug fixing and to creating content right? Each one in specialized in one of the two said things. So delaying housing won't speed up the bug fixing...

Oh wait @Danikat just explained it really well.

ParaNostram · October 2016

alexkdd99 wrote: »

PurifedBladez wrote: »

Housing is a desperation call from zos. They're just putting it in there now because it will keep the game alive for some more time and, probably result in some good profits on the way out. Thats also why crown crates are being put in. Make no mistake it's the beginning of the end.

And where did you obtain your crystal ball to look into the future?

Doomsayers are OP, nerf Crystal Ball please!

KanedaSyndrome · October 2016

Digiman wrote: »

I don't see the fascination in housing, its probably going to be phased in the same spot. I don't know the length of bugs this game has still gotten but from what I read they addressed a lot of the old ones and this was a new patch release.

Hell I am surprised the game was still here on my computer when it launched the update.

Tbh, I kinda agree. Phased housing seems a bit pointless when you want to show off.

Korah_Eaglecry · October 2016

ParaNostram wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

PurifedBladez wrote: »

Housing is a desperation call from zos. They're just putting it in there now because it will keep the game alive for some more time and, probably result in some good profits on the way out. Thats also why crown crates are being put in. Make no mistake it's the beginning of the end.

And where did you obtain your crystal ball to look into the future?

Doomsayers are OP, nerf Crystal Ball please!

I accidently deleted the screenshot but Crystal Ball critted me for 500k. ZOS do something quick!

Elsonso · October 2016

cjthibs wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

You must not be aware of how large programs are created or fixed. You could have 5 people working on the same program but each person not know what the next is doing. Or have 5 teams with each team not knowing exactly what the next is doing. That is how it works.

You may have identified exactly what is wrong with the development process used by ZOS.

ANY large software product is developed this way.
It is humanly impossible for one person to code it all or even know how in something this large and complex.

Frankly, I was joking. I already know they don't operate as you describe.

Danksta · October 2016

It's too bad the people that this thread is intended for will never even hear about this thread, let alone see it.

BrianDavion · October 2016

Baranthus wrote: »

Every single update, is bringing a multitude of new bugs. We LOVE this game, but this latest update - AS PREDICTED - brought an avalanche of new bugs and game breaks.

PLEASE STOP THINKING OF YOUR WALLETS FOR JUST ONE UPDATE ONLY AND INSTEAD ADDRESS AS MANY OF THE BUGS AND GLITCHES AS IS POSSIBLE. We don't expect miracles. But fix the things that damage the game or cause people tio lose faith or feel like they are being ignored. As stated, you have a wide-ranging and eclectic community who love this game, to the point where we'll spend a lot of money on it. But recently the superb new content releases are being crushed by associated bugs - almost a week to fix the EU server login issue (which should never ever have happenned in the first place!) is breathtakingly inept.

if they never released new content until they addressed the bugs Imperial city would still be a "some day we'll release this" item.

itscompton · October 2016

Woeler wrote: »

You do not NEED to delay the release of housing.....

Content creation and bugfixing are two entirely different teams/departments. You can't just put content creators on a bugfixing team because it is needed.

Some people are really narrow minded when it comes to business structures.

While it might be true that content creators can't be reassigned to bug fixing every addition to the content, especially a whole new mechanic like housing or dueling, adds to the complexity of the code and makes fixing the base code without breaking other things that much more of a prohibitive task.

nimander99 · October 2016

Please ignore the heck out of this OP. There will always be bugs in MMO's. Its unrealistic to expect otherwise. This update is the best update we've had thus far. I have yet to run into a game breaking bug, the only bugs ive noticed are gap closers are sometimes taking me 'out of reality'... As it were.

itscompton · October 2016

Fixing bugs and lag needs to become not just priority #1 but the only priority until they get the game straightened out. For every person that has no issues there are twice as many others for whom the game is in a mostly unplayable state. I'm one of those people. I sign in every day to try playing PvP but 3/4 of the time I sign back out within five minutes. Sure there have been days where the game was laggy yet still playable but the vast majority of days the lag is so bad every skill/bar swap I initiate takes a full 1-2 seconds before it registers that button press and getting CC'ed is an automatic death sentence because it's impossible to break free when it's lagging that bad.
And if we believe all those who claim the game always runs smoothly for them it means that some people are being given an insurmountable advantage. In the last two months there was ONE night when everything worked perfectly for me and I felt absolutely invincible, even taking on and winning fights as large as 1v6 (even when it was all 531's) quite a few times that night. Which makes it even more frustrating when I get hammered by a single Stam character using proc sets and I'm dead on the server side before the first hit even displays on the client side because a 2 second delay is enough time for them to kill me since I don't know I'm even being attacked and so don't have a chance to do something to mitigate/heal the damage.
Just for clarity the lag isn't on my end, I'm on PS4 with a wired connection and using the built in connection test on the console consistently gives me results of above 140 Mb down and 14 Mb up. I had been a subscriber since console launch but the game performance had degraded to the point that I refuse to put another dime into the game until they fix these crippling issues.

SilentFox22 · October 2016

Sometimes I want to ask folks who complain about bugs just how much time they've actually logged on the PTS before the content they complain is 'buggy' goes live. o.0

Uriel_Nocturne · October 2016

That went pretty quick.

It only took three pages for the conversation to devolve into petty squabbling...

Impressive.

Elsonso · October 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@lordrichter

What are you basing your comments on?

It would be expected that content developers are working on a project of mumtiple projects at various stages of developement when working in a larger environment with decent organization. It would also be expected there would be a team that Zooey focused on discovering the cause of "bugs" and work on developing fixes though they may consult with members of the original design team.

Finding the cause of bugs and devlolkmg solutions is a very specific type of experience in software developement.

Wouldn't be prudent to have people working all over the place and without focus. It just doesn't make sense.

Statements made in passing, or deliberately, by various memners of the development team in streams. I am led to believe that they do not have separare resources dedicated to bug fixes outside of the core developers.

Tandor · October 2016

PurifedBladez wrote: »

Housing is a desperation call from zos. They're just putting it in there now because it will keep the game alive for some more time and, probably result in some good profits on the way out. Thats also why crown crates are being put in. Make no mistake it's the beginning of the end.

That's strange, I thought that the lag in Cyrodiil was the beginning of the end. Or was it the lighting enhancement patch? No, wasn't it the switch to F2P that turned out to be B2P? Then again I could have sworn it was the final cash grab, otherwise known as the crafting bag bait and shut move.

I'm sure that in some years time when ESO celebrates its long-term success, you'll post here and tell us how you never doubted it for a moment

!

Bam_Bam · October 2016

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Baranthus wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

You do not NEED to delay the release of housing.....

Ummmm, yes they do.

Woeler wrote: »

Content creation and bugfixing are two entirely different teams/departments. You can't just put content creators on a bugfixing team because it is needed.

So basically what you are saying is the content creators create the bugs but a DIFFERENT team who aren't involved in content creation are assigned to fixing said bugs? And thus, not having the requisite knowledge to address content creation bugs are then placed in the precarioius position of further compounding existing issues due to being prt of a seperate team. Having a seperate team JUST to address bugs would seem like a rather expensive acknowledgement of underskilled content creators?

Woeler wrote: »

Some people are really narrow minded when it comes to business structures.

Please, elaborate and share your extensive and, indeed, volumaic knowledge on this subject and bestow a fraction of your benevolent wisdom for us all?

You must not be aware of how large programs are created or fixed. You could have 5 people working on the same program but each person not know what the next is doing. Or have 5 teams with each team not knowing exactly what the next is doing. That is how it works.
Also programs have documentation in them so that other people are aware of exactly what everything in the program does.

My brother works for TT Fusion (formerly Traveller's Tales Games until they were bought out by Warner Brothers) - he is one of the lead coders and tool makers for the range of Lego Games (Lord of the Rings franchise, Batman franchise etc etc). You're right, I don't know the in's and out's. He certainly has an excellent insight on game design, development and production though.
But to be honest, I've got home from work and instead of finding my post to be full of interesting, differences of opinion that have inspired healthy debate about the game we ALL love and want the best for, unfortunately its descended into the usual poisonous, pi55ing contest.
I give up on the general discussion forums, they are utter dross.Ta-ta. x

bedlom · October 2016

They do not and they hopefully will not.

Tandor · October 2016

Baranthus wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Baranthus wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

You do not NEED to delay the release of housing.....

Ummmm, yes they do.

Woeler wrote: »

Content creation and bugfixing are two entirely different teams/departments. You can't just put content creators on a bugfixing team because it is needed.

So basically what you are saying is the content creators create the bugs but a DIFFERENT team who aren't involved in content creation are assigned to fixing said bugs? And thus, not having the requisite knowledge to address content creation bugs are then placed in the precarioius position of further compounding existing issues due to being prt of a seperate team. Having a seperate team JUST to address bugs would seem like a rather expensive acknowledgement of underskilled content creators?

Woeler wrote: »

Some people are really narrow minded when it comes to business structures.

Please, elaborate and share your extensive and, indeed, volumaic knowledge on this subject and bestow a fraction of your benevolent wisdom for us all?

You must not be aware of how large programs are created or fixed. You could have 5 people working on the same program but each person not know what the next is doing. Or have 5 teams with each team not knowing exactly what the next is doing. That is how it works.
Also programs have documentation in them so that other people are aware of exactly what everything in the program does.

My brother works for TT Fusion (formerly Traveller's Tales Games until they were bought out by Warner Brothers) - he is one of the lead coders and tool makers for the range of Lego Games (Lord of the Rings franchise, Batman franchise etc etc). You're right, I don't know the in's and out's. He certainly has an excellent insight on game design, development and production though.
But to be honest, I've got home from work and instead of finding my post to be full of interesting, differences of opinion that have inspired healthy debate about the game we ALL love and want the best for, unfortunately its descended into the usual poisonous, pi55ing contest.
I give up on the general discussion forums, they are utter dross.Ta-ta. x

Pretty inevitable, I'd have thought, if the original post is flamebait.

Bam_Bam · October 2016

Tandor wrote: »

Baranthus wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Baranthus wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

You do not NEED to delay the release of housing.....

Ummmm, yes they do.

Woeler wrote: »

Content creation and bugfixing are two entirely different teams/departments. You can't just put content creators on a bugfixing team because it is needed.

So basically what you are saying is the content creators create the bugs but a DIFFERENT team who aren't involved in content creation are assigned to fixing said bugs? And thus, not having the requisite knowledge to address content creation bugs are then placed in the precarioius position of further compounding existing issues due to being prt of a seperate team. Having a seperate team JUST to address bugs would seem like a rather expensive acknowledgement of underskilled content creators?

Woeler wrote: »

Some people are really narrow minded when it comes to business structures.

Please, elaborate and share your extensive and, indeed, volumaic knowledge on this subject and bestow a fraction of your benevolent wisdom for us all?

You must not be aware of how large programs are created or fixed. You could have 5 people working on the same program but each person not know what the next is doing. Or have 5 teams with each team not knowing exactly what the next is doing. That is how it works.
Also programs have documentation in them so that other people are aware of exactly what everything in the program does.

My brother works for TT Fusion (formerly Traveller's Tales Games until they were bought out by Warner Brothers) - he is one of the lead coders and tool makers for the range of Lego Games (Lord of the Rings franchise, Batman franchise etc etc). You're right, I don't know the in's and out's. He certainly has an excellent insight on game design, development and production though.
But to be honest, I've got home from work and instead of finding my post to be full of interesting, differences of opinion that have inspired healthy debate about the game we ALL love and want the best for, unfortunately its descended into the usual poisonous, pi55ing contest.
I give up on the general discussion forums, they are utter dross.Ta-ta. x

Pretty inevitable, I'd have thought, if the original post is flamebait.

Not sure what 'flamebait' is? I made the original post sincerely and I hoped to spark debate but I'm learning that it's impossible here

Taternater · October 2016

Well the game will probably end one day so you might say this is the beginning of an end that might happen years from now.

A lot of games added player housing and have persisted for years since.

They wouldn't be putting all this time and resources into a game they thought would be ending soon.

Those crown crates they're going to add are similar to what a lot of other games use. I intend to spend my accumulated eso plus points on them since I don't have much else I spend the crowns on. I don't really collect mounts, costumes, motifs I don't like the looks of just because they're there, or xp scrolls that I can get in the form of ambrosia for like 3k gold I think it was when last I looked.

Still I pity the gambling addicts out there.

TheValkyn · October 2016

Woeler wrote: »

You do not NEED to delay the release of housing.....

Content creation and bugfixing are two entirely different teams/departments. You can't just put content creators on a bugfixing team because it is needed.

Some people are really narrow minded when it comes to business structures.

QA Engineers or Analysts are usually entry level game designers. It's where you start in order to move up to other positions.

So to rephrase your line "Some people are really narrow minded when it comes to business structures that I know nothing about but think I do."

Bam_Bam · October 2016

Taternater wrote: »

Well the game will probably end one day so you might say this is the beginning of an end that might happen years from now.

A lot of games added player housing and have persisted for years since.

They wouldn't be putting all this time and resources into a game they thought would be ending soon.

Those crown crates they're going to add are similar to what a lot of other games use. I intend to spend my accumulated eso plus points on them since I don't have much else I spend the crowns on. I don't really collect mounts, costumes, motifs I don't like the looks of just because they're there, or xp scrolls that I can get in the form of ambrosia for like 3k gold I think it was when last I looked.

Still I pity the gambling addicts out there.

I think ESO has many more years left. The ideas behind the game are superb - all that is lacking is the correct implentation.

Serious question - what exactly are the crates in question? I've heard of them but I've no idea what they are and why everyone is going loopy about them

KingYogi415 · October 2016

We NEED housing asap!