is this game getting too easy?

Vangy · October 2016

I want to call myself a pro but i cant...... Ive done vMA, vDSA, ive done vTrials, some even on HM. But still... im a noob. Cos 2 years into this game I still cant beat one particular boss. Everytime it shows up I lose. Sometimes at night, I have nightmares about this boss..... Sometimes it even pwnz not just me, but a group of 11 other friends I brought along to fight it. Im sure all the elite players who are the best of the best stand no chance against this boss. Fengy, sypher, deltia, nifty.. you name it. They have all lost to this boss every single time. Infact, I can go so far as to say NO ONE here has beaten it, or will ever beat this boss. If by now you are still clueless as to what this boss is.... id count yourself as lucky. Boss listed below if you are a masochist. Read at your own risk...

Loading Screen boss

Doctordarkspawn · October 2016

Funkopotamus wrote: »

This game is Casual Scrolls Online.. Didn't you know?

It is "fun", but nothing about CasualScrollsOnline is anywhere near the level of other MMO's when it comes to a challenge.

The thing that kills ESO in that department is the fact that ESO doesn't know what it wants to be.. Is it a MMO.. Is it a single player RPG? It tries very hard to be both and it only makes the game fall flat in so many areas because of that fact alone.

And even as an MMO, does it want to be a freeform MMO like secret world, or one with rigid classes, like Wildstar or WoW?

The design works against itself in many places, hopefully they work on that in update 13. But you are somewhat correct, the game is too muddled in it's own design issues to have a hope in hell of being properly difficult.

Asgari · October 2016

Game is too easy.. so many free process sets that you don't need any skill to do anything anymore.

Gargath · October 2016

LaiTash wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Go to Rivenspire and find an area boss thats in a ruined tower made up of a caster and 2 skeletons, one physical and one magic. Id like to know your opinion and the difficulty of that one.

It's group content. I wouldn't even bother going there without a group. It's like saying normal group dungeons are challenging because they're hard to solo.

Aaah the Old Kalgon's Keep near the lake and close to Hoarfrost Downs village, that's actually a challenge for doing it solo in a good build. Before OT I could do it solo only on sorcerer and templar with destro/resto staffs and on tank, but I was always failing on the casters when playing NB and DK DDs, usually due to lack of strong healing abilities.
This however is very challenging spot for training skills, I plan to check it now after OT, hope bossess abilites aren't too much stronger now...

HouLiGaN · October 2016

Tabbycat wrote: »

Here's to you OP and all the others that are just too awesome for the game.

https://youtu.be/vziUC1IT0wo

This Post Made my day!!!!!
& from today I shall be sending this video clip to everyone who is generally TO OP for this Game !
Hopefully then they will understand how they sound !

Digiman · October 2016

They only changed the number of players to take down a world boss to a reasonable to avoid dead zones from getting deader when there are a few people in there but not enough for a specific boss.

I like it and still have the challenge of the DLC ones that sometimes wipes my face off.

LaiTash · October 2016

Frawr wrote: »

I had a guildie who I sat with and explained movement and aiming and use of destro staff. Her playstyle dramatically improved as a result. This does go to show that the game isn't necessarily easy for everyone. Perhaps their target audience is actually players who are new to video games...

I was thinking it's people who played and liked at least one TES game... not to say TES is 22 years old by now.

Prof_Bawbag · October 2016

Genuine question as this is the first and only mmo I have ever played, is there an MMO out there that is difficult? Not because of the micromanagement, but because it's on par with the likes of Dark Souls etc.

Meilinka · October 2016

Mei wishes she was OP and good at this game.

Doctordarkspawn · October 2016

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Genuine question as this is the first and only mmo I have ever played, is there an MMO out there that is difficult? Not because of the micromanagement, but because it's on par with the likes of Dark Souls etc.

Not really, no.

Because it physically cannot be. Dark souls difficulty, comes from things like, enemy design, level design, and that becomes infinitely harder to design for a group of four, a group of twelve, and such. The reason MMO's typically are mechanic focused is because it's the middleground. It's easier to design and sometimes provides a challenge when the mechanic itself isn't something you can ignore.

Some MMO's have tried, however, I seem to remember a MMO where if your character died, it was perminantly dead, and so on and so fourth.

DYSEQTA · October 2016

kamimark wrote: »

I miss Doshia being an impossible barrier until you learned to play and the Feast mechanics, and even then was no joke.

Ah those were the days. I remember filing a bug report because my minimum-height Bosmer using whirlwind as my only AoE couldn't reach high enough to hit the floating health balls making her practically impossible for my character and build to beat.

Doctordarkspawn · October 2016

DYSEQTA wrote: »

kamimark wrote: »

I miss Doshia being an impossible barrier until you learned to play and the Feast mechanics, and even then was no joke.

Ah those were the days. I remember filing a bug report because my minimum-height Bosmer using whirlwind as my only AoE couldn't reach high enough to hit the floating health balls making her practically impossible for my character and build to beat.

Do you mind if I steal this? I kind of want to send this to everyone who wants to go back to Vanilla

@DYSEQTA

AzraelKrieg · October 2016

Are parts of the game getting too easy for me? Yes because I've been playing since launch. Is the game easy overall? No. Taking into account the content I've done and breezed through it vs the content I have done but struggle and the content I haven't done, the game is sitting at good difficulty level. But that's for me personally.

Prof_Bawbag · October 2016

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Genuine question as this is the first and only mmo I have ever played, is there an MMO out there that is difficult? Not because of the micromanagement, but because it's on par with the likes of Dark Souls etc.

Not really, no.

Because it physically cannot be. Dark souls difficulty, comes from things like, enemy design, level design, and that becomes infinitely harder to design for a group of four, a group of twelve, and such. The reason MMO's typically are mechanic focused is because it's the middleground. It's easier to design and sometimes provides a challenge when the mechanic itself isn't something you can ignore.

Some MMO's have tried, however, I seem to remember a MMO where if your character died, it was perminantly dead, and so on and so fourth.

Makes sense because truly difficult games are niche products and kinda goes against the longevity that is required for an MMO to remain relevant and profit making. I love the DS series and truly challenging games, but I can't sustain playing them for long periods due to the concentration required. Maybe it's just me, but I unwittingly tense up during such games because you have to remain alert because one mistake can scupper your progress. Not relaxing at all if played for hours on end.

Doctordarkspawn · October 2016

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Genuine question as this is the first and only mmo I have ever played, is there an MMO out there that is difficult? Not because of the micromanagement, but because it's on par with the likes of Dark Souls etc.

Not really, no.

Because it physically cannot be. Dark souls difficulty, comes from things like, enemy design, level design, and that becomes infinitely harder to design for a group of four, a group of twelve, and such. The reason MMO's typically are mechanic focused is because it's the middleground. It's easier to design and sometimes provides a challenge when the mechanic itself isn't something you can ignore.

Some MMO's have tried, however, I seem to remember a MMO where if your character died, it was perminantly dead, and so on and so fourth.

Makes sense because truly difficult games are niche products and kinda goes against the longevity that is required for an MMO to remain relevant and profit making. I love the DS series and truly challenging games, but I can't sustain playing them for long periods due to the concentration required. Maybe it's just me, but I unwittingly tense up during such games because you have to remain alert because one mistake can scupper your progress. Not relaxing at all if played for hours on end.

It's not just you. And yet for some reason, there is a large subset of these games that have nested in the forums, that want difficulty at the expense of people like you who dont want it for long periods of time.

And they dont much care what you or I think about that. If we dont like it we can leave, right?

LaiTash · October 2016

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Genuine question as this is the first and only mmo I have ever played, is there an MMO out there that is difficult? Not because of the micromanagement, but because it's on par with the likes of Dark Souls etc.

Not really, no.

Because it physically cannot be. Dark souls difficulty, comes from things like, enemy design, level design, and that becomes infinitely harder to design for a group of four, a group of twelve, and such. The reason MMO's typically are mechanic focused is because it's the middleground. It's easier to design and sometimes provides a challenge when the mechanic itself isn't something you can ignore.

Some MMO's have tried, however, I seem to remember a MMO where if your character died, it was perminantly dead, and so on and so fourth.

Makes sense because truly difficult games are niche products and kinda goes against the longevity that is required for an MMO to remain relevant and profit making. I love the DS series and truly challenging games, but I can't sustain playing them for long periods due to the concentration required. Maybe it's just me, but I unwittingly tense up during such games because you have to remain alert because one mistake can scupper your progress. Not relaxing at all if played for hours on end.

It's not just you. And yet for some reason, there is a large subset of these games that have nested in the forums, that want difficulty at the expense of people like you who dont want it for long periods of time.

And they dont much care what you or I think about that. If we dont like it we can leave, right?

Like you care what we think. "Go play dark souls" is your general attitude to those who find the game not challenging enough. Ah yes, we do have VMA, what a relief...

Wing · October 2016

the forums and various internet sites are always going to say the game is too easy by nature of if you visit and post in them you are probably more experienced in the game then most, as most normal players don't bother to check forums.

I consider myself a rather good player, but I am the best out of my small group we play with, and that being said there is stuff in this game too hard for me and my group that we will sadly never complete.

such as the new 4 man dungeons in IC and SotH, it sucks because we paid for them and don't really ever have a chance of beating them, some of us are very casual, others are just older and have *** reflexes.

when you know the game, know the mechanics of encounters, do it with a group equally as good, have good sets and good gear all purple or gold enchanted with the best. . .I expect they game to be easy for you, it damn well better.

Doctordarkspawn · October 2016

LaiTash wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Genuine question as this is the first and only mmo I have ever played, is there an MMO out there that is difficult? Not because of the micromanagement, but because it's on par with the likes of Dark Souls etc.

Not really, no.

Because it physically cannot be. Dark souls difficulty, comes from things like, enemy design, level design, and that becomes infinitely harder to design for a group of four, a group of twelve, and such. The reason MMO's typically are mechanic focused is because it's the middleground. It's easier to design and sometimes provides a challenge when the mechanic itself isn't something you can ignore.

Some MMO's have tried, however, I seem to remember a MMO where if your character died, it was perminantly dead, and so on and so fourth.

Makes sense because truly difficult games are niche products and kinda goes against the longevity that is required for an MMO to remain relevant and profit making. I love the DS series and truly challenging games, but I can't sustain playing them for long periods due to the concentration required. Maybe it's just me, but I unwittingly tense up during such games because you have to remain alert because one mistake can scupper your progress. Not relaxing at all if played for hours on end.

It's not just you. And yet for some reason, there is a large subset of these games that have nested in the forums, that want difficulty at the expense of people like you who dont want it for long periods of time.

And they dont much care what you or I think about that. If we dont like it we can leave, right?

Like you care what we think. "Go play dark souls" is your general attitude to those who find the game not challenging enough. Ah yes, we do have VMA, what a relief...

Considering what you want is a nuanced, difficult experience designed to challenge you and Dark souls is the best example of a game that has successfully done that, and considering the mechanical challenge in creating difficulty you likely glossed over, I dont see what response you expect, or what response I could give you without lying to you. If I told you lets make the game difficult, everyone will love it, this is lying to you because people will not love it, and there will be a signifigant audience that may want refunds. If I tell you it's a sustainable buisnes model, you run into the same issue, for the same reasons.

It's not that I dont care. It's that what you think and what you want are a No-win senario.

PS: Yes, I'll continue to tell people who whine about how this game isn't hard enough for them. People will demand it in the face of facts and numbers and better experiences. Those people need to be told no for their own good.

Double edit: This is what I posted as to why this game cant give you what you want. You should read it.

Because it physically cannot be. Dark souls difficulty, comes from things like, enemy design, level design, and that becomes infinitely harder to design for a group of four, a group of twelve, and such. The reason MMO's typically are mechanic focused is because it's the middleground. It's easier to design and sometimes provides a challenge when the mechanic itself isn't something you can ignore.

LaiTash · October 2016

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

LaiTash wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Genuine question as this is the first and only mmo I have ever played, is there an MMO out there that is difficult? Not because of the micromanagement, but because it's on par with the likes of Dark Souls etc.

Not really, no.

Because it physically cannot be. Dark souls difficulty, comes from things like, enemy design, level design, and that becomes infinitely harder to design for a group of four, a group of twelve, and such. The reason MMO's typically are mechanic focused is because it's the middleground. It's easier to design and sometimes provides a challenge when the mechanic itself isn't something you can ignore.

Some MMO's have tried, however, I seem to remember a MMO where if your character died, it was perminantly dead, and so on and so fourth.

Makes sense because truly difficult games are niche products and kinda goes against the longevity that is required for an MMO to remain relevant and profit making. I love the DS series and truly challenging games, but I can't sustain playing them for long periods due to the concentration required. Maybe it's just me, but I unwittingly tense up during such games because you have to remain alert because one mistake can scupper your progress. Not relaxing at all if played for hours on end.

It's not just you. And yet for some reason, there is a large subset of these games that have nested in the forums, that want difficulty at the expense of people like you who dont want it for long periods of time.

And they dont much care what you or I think about that. If we dont like it we can leave, right?

Like you care what we think. "Go play dark souls" is your general attitude to those who find the game not challenging enough. Ah yes, we do have VMA, what a relief...

Considering what you want is a nuanced, difficult experience designed to challenge you and Dark souls is the best example of a game that has successfully done that, and considering the mechanical challenge in creating difficulty you likely glossed over, I dont see what response you expect, or what response I could give you without lying to you. If I told you lets make the game difficult, everyone will love it, this is lying to you because people will not love it, and there will be a signifigant audience that may want refunds. If I tell you it's a sustainable buisnes model, you run into the same issue, for the same reasons.

It's not that I dont care. It's that what you think and what you want are a No-win senario.

PS: Yes, I'll continue to tell people who whine about how this game isn't hard enough for them. People will demand it in the face of facts and numbers and better experiences. Those people need to be told no for their own good.

I don't want a DS-level difficulty. I want to fight a quest boss for longer then 3 seconds. I want to be unable to solo a group dungeon with my far from perfect character. I do value my time and that's the reason i don't feel too well about spending months in a game that provide no challenge.

Doctordarkspawn · October 2016

LaiTash wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

LaiTash wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Genuine question as this is the first and only mmo I have ever played, is there an MMO out there that is difficult? Not because of the micromanagement, but because it's on par with the likes of Dark Souls etc.

Not really, no.

Because it physically cannot be. Dark souls difficulty, comes from things like, enemy design, level design, and that becomes infinitely harder to design for a group of four, a group of twelve, and such. The reason MMO's typically are mechanic focused is because it's the middleground. It's easier to design and sometimes provides a challenge when the mechanic itself isn't something you can ignore.

Some MMO's have tried, however, I seem to remember a MMO where if your character died, it was perminantly dead, and so on and so fourth.

Makes sense because truly difficult games are niche products and kinda goes against the longevity that is required for an MMO to remain relevant and profit making. I love the DS series and truly challenging games, but I can't sustain playing them for long periods due to the concentration required. Maybe it's just me, but I unwittingly tense up during such games because you have to remain alert because one mistake can scupper your progress. Not relaxing at all if played for hours on end.

It's not just you. And yet for some reason, there is a large subset of these games that have nested in the forums, that want difficulty at the expense of people like you who dont want it for long periods of time.

And they dont much care what you or I think about that. If we dont like it we can leave, right?

Like you care what we think. "Go play dark souls" is your general attitude to those who find the game not challenging enough. Ah yes, we do have VMA, what a relief...

Considering what you want is a nuanced, difficult experience designed to challenge you and Dark souls is the best example of a game that has successfully done that, and considering the mechanical challenge in creating difficulty you likely glossed over, I dont see what response you expect, or what response I could give you without lying to you. If I told you lets make the game difficult, everyone will love it, this is lying to you because people will not love it, and there will be a signifigant audience that may want refunds. If I tell you it's a sustainable buisnes model, you run into the same issue, for the same reasons.

It's not that I dont care. It's that what you think and what you want are a No-win senario.

PS: Yes, I'll continue to tell people who whine about how this game isn't hard enough for them. People will demand it in the face of facts and numbers and better experiences. Those people need to be told no for their own good.

I don't want a DS-level difficulty. I want to fight a quest boss for longer then 3 seconds. I want to be unable to solo a group dungeon with my far from perfect character. I do value my time and that's the reason i don't feel too well about spending months in a game that provide no challenge.

Their working on making boss fights take longer then 3 seconds.

To highlight my point, so in your opinion everyone who has a problem with peldges taking 2 hours can get *** and die?
This is why I say it is a No-win senario. When we bend over backwards to please you, we lose. You lose, because then a signifigant portion of people keeping the game afloat, go away.

And this comes with other issues. Just how long should they take? Do the people with high DPS need to have their DPS cut in half in order to make difficult? How many must suffer, for your version of the game?

And how many are you willing to tell in the flesh to get over it?

Nobody wins.

PS. Soloing isn't going away, it's a fundmental -design- thing, so that's not geting fixed anytime soon.

gard · October 2016

Typhoios wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

I like that there are world bosses that a group of four can NOT take.

Which ones? I haven't found any that hard yet.

That's because you haven't found a wb without a dozen people waiting to take it down.

OrphanHelgen · October 2016

Try group tool for a vet dungeon and see how easy this game is XD

Doctordarkspawn · October 2016

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Try group tool for a vet dungeon and see how easy this game is XD

IT'S LIKE PLAYING ON ULTRAHRD.

Dracane · October 2016

It's too easy.
Especially when the NPCs try to tell you. how scary a certain creature is and that death awaits.

Best example yesterday. All these craglorn bosses have only 130k health, that's very low.
But this Mantikora Mother thing beat them all... 60k health. I killed it in 3 shots.
It's not satisfying at all. I must solo pledge dungeons to find something challenging.

purple-magicb16_ESO · October 2016

OP is so tough, he eats his steak with a straw!

Seriously tho, I seem to have a tougher time taking down a boss with a group than by myself. That's the scaling I think. But, if I'm going to have trouble, I'd rather it in a group.

LaiTash · October 2016

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

To highlight my point, so in your opinion everyone who has a problem with peldges taking 2 hours can get *** and die?

I hate to say that, but no, they can L2P instead. Why must i suffer because someone is too lazy for that? Is it your opinion that everyone who find facerolling through content dumb and repetitive and boring can get *** and die?

Doctordarkspawn · October 2016

Dracane wrote: »

It's too easy.
Especially when the NPCs try to tell you. how scary a certain creature is and that death awaits.

Best example yesterday. All these craglorn bosses have only 130k health, that's very low.
But this Mantikora Mother thing beat them all... 60k health. I killed it in 3 shots.
It's not satisfying at all. I must solo pledge dungeons to find something challenging.

Then perhapse you should go play a game explicitly ballanced to challenge an individual game through level, enemy design and counter design?

I cant say Darksouls, cuz that offends people, so I'ma just list it's merits instead.

X3ina · October 2016

This game is freaking hard, even if people say its easy. Btw this "easy" is mostly used by people who got carried by more skilled players.

If you think that this game is TOO EASY, plz show me the vid (or invite me in a group) where u solo vICP. Personally i think it is possible for a nightblade only. Because developers add 1 stupid mechanics called "Lever" and I can't seem to pull both in 1 second. And remember this content is more than 1 year old.

Btw vMA is not a challenge, it used to be a hard only for the first month after release.

Ep1kMalware · October 2016

magnusthorek wrote: »

I'm a good player but way far from the, sad to say, arrogant elite that pulls astronomical number in DPS.

Maybe it's me, maybe the role I love to play is not for me anymore. But definitely, this game is not "too easy", at leastto the vast majority of players.

because they suck. They're not expected to improve, so why would thy get any better? In the past, if you did not improve you did not advance. These days are obviously over as people do not want to improve.

Be that as it may, there is always darksouls.

Luigi_Vampa · October 2016

gard wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

I like that there are world bosses that a group of four can NOT take.

Which ones? I haven't found any that hard yet.

That's because you haven't found a wb without a dozen people waiting to take it down.

Nah, I play at off times sometimes and have solo'd and duo'd some bosses already. A few other times I've had bosses down to half health before others showed up. Most of the bosses I've encountered can't out damage my sweeps from my Templar. I can literally hit one skill and just interupt / sidestep their big attacks.