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PC NA Dueling Tournament | Saturday 10/15 @6pm EST

  • donJay
    donJay
    ✭✭✭
    frozywozy wrote: »
    donJay wrote: »
    frozywozy wrote: »
    donJay wrote: »
    frozywozy wrote: »
    donJay wrote: »
    So sad that people still call for a ban on fasallas. Either they don't know how to counter it or they do and chose not to. L2p. People want duels that protect their comfort zone and basic gameplay

    Fasalla's counter any templar who decide to use ritual of retribution in a battle. I use ritual of retribution for extra damage and stealth detection. We are not allowed to respec skills during the tournament so I am forced to go for extended ritual to counter one set of gear, which is pathetic.

    It's an mmo with gear based PvP. I've beaten every other fasallas Templar by: not using ritual when I need to heal or any skill for that matter. You aren't forced. You are choosing to take unnecessary precautions when all you have to do is counter play. I know it sounds crazy, but a 2 sec debuff that you can hold block through and heal right after is pretty straight forward. People are also complaining about fasallas because it protects their survivability tanky meta builds. In the rules, you can even swap skills.

    I'm not worried about a templar using it. I'm worried about a dual wield dot builds or a magDK using it. I'm not going to go respec my morphs in Deshaan simply because I'm facing one of those using it. That set is over performing largely in duels.


    I just broke down this argument in my previous response to you. You can literally copy and paste the strat to playing against fasallas against any other class. Your definition of "overperforming" is not being able to handle your own use of a specific morph of a skill against a player using a specific gear in a mmo where pvp is gear based. And your solution to your problem of not withstanding higher level play is to ban a set. Do you not realize what you're saying? Let's not make this harder than it needs to be

    Give me a comparaison of any other set that counter a specific ability in the game other than shieldbreaker (shieldbreaker was banned from most dueling touirnament for this specific reason).

    What does this comment have to do with our discussion of Fasallas? or in your case lack there of. Fasallas counters the survivability meta (which most builds are centered around) but absolutely contributes nothing resource or dmg-wise to taking out an opponent or their shields. You can still re-read my responses to learn how play against. Or hell, you can get the set yourself and I or anyone else can prove to you that you can actually counter play it if you put any amount of effort in. And your question is flawed anyway. It doesn't counter any ability. It counters the player who used the ability and/or the player who doesn't want to think in duels about anything else other than their dps rotation and heals.

    Ps. Shield breaker is banned because shields are magika sorcs ONLY lifeline. They can't outplay It even if they tried because they don't have the tools. But we have the tools to play against Fasallas.(not attack for 2 sec). And if you are complaining ONLY because you don't know what do without your dmg purify morph for 2 secs, we have bigger things to talk about.
    Edited by donJay on October 9, 2016 12:26AM
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  • LeifErickson
    LeifErickson
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    donJay wrote: »
    donJay wrote: »
    frozywozy wrote: »
    donJay wrote: »
    frozywozy wrote: »
    donJay wrote: »
    So sad that people still call for a ban on fasallas. Either they don't know how to counter it or they do and chose not to. L2p. People want duels that protect their comfort zone and basic gameplay

    Fasalla's counter any templar who decide to use ritual of retribution in a battle. I use ritual of retribution for extra damage and stealth detection. We are not allowed to respec skills during the tournament so I am forced to go for extended ritual to counter one set of gear, which is pathetic.

    It's an mmo with gear based PvP. I've beaten every other fasallas Templar by: not using ritual when I need to heal or any skill for that matter. You aren't forced. You are choosing to take unnecessary precautions when all you have to do is counter play. I know it sounds crazy, but a 2 sec debuff that you can hold block through and heal right after is pretty straight forward. People are also complaining about fasallas because it protects their survivability tanky meta builds. In the rules, you can even swap skills.

    I'm not worried about a templar using it. I'm worried about a dual wield dot builds or a magDK using it. I'm not going to go respec my morphs in Deshaan simply because I'm facing one of those using it. That set is over performing largely in duels.


    in a mmo where pvp is gear based.

    Are you saying that you think it's a good thing that fights are decided by what the players are wearing and not the actual skill of that player? If so, what's the point in even dueling if the fight is only decided by the person with the better build for the specific fight?

    Idc if it's bad or good. You're the one playing an mmo. Play tekken or super smash if you want 1v1's where you can't customize your abilities or gear. You are literally asking for perfectly neutral no slight advantage whatsoever for EVERY MATCHUP in an mmo. Classes already have disadvantages against other regardless of armor. You want to comment on each matchup too? But if you want to comment on fasallas specifically, look at my previous comments directed to frozn.

    Where do I say that I'm asking for perfectly neutral fights?
  • donJay
    donJay
    ✭✭✭
    donJay wrote: »
    donJay wrote: »
    frozywozy wrote: »
    donJay wrote: »
    frozywozy wrote: »
    donJay wrote: »
    So sad that people still call for a ban on fasallas. Either they don't know how to counter it or they do and chose not to. L2p. People want duels that protect their comfort zone and basic gameplay

    Fasalla's counter any templar who decide to use ritual of retribution in a battle. I use ritual of retribution for extra damage and stealth detection. We are not allowed to respec skills during the tournament so I am forced to go for extended ritual to counter one set of gear, which is pathetic.

    It's an mmo with gear based PvP. I've beaten every other fasallas Templar by: not using ritual when I need to heal or any skill for that matter. You aren't forced. You are choosing to take unnecessary precautions when all you have to do is counter play. I know it sounds crazy, but a 2 sec debuff that you can hold block through and heal right after is pretty straight forward. People are also complaining about fasallas because it protects their survivability tanky meta builds. In the rules, you can even swap skills.

    I'm not worried about a templar using it. I'm worried about a dual wield dot builds or a magDK using it. I'm not going to go respec my morphs in Deshaan simply because I'm facing one of those using it. That set is over performing largely in duels.


    in a mmo where pvp is gear based.

    Are you saying that you think it's a good thing that fights are decided by what the players are wearing and not the actual skill of that player? If so, what's the point in even dueling if the fight is only decided by the person with the better build for the specific fight?

    Idc if it's bad or good. You're the one playing an mmo. Play tekken or super smash if you want 1v1's where you can't customize your abilities or gear. You are literally asking for perfectly neutral no slight advantage whatsoever for EVERY MATCHUP in an mmo. Classes already have disadvantages against other regardless of armor. You want to comment on each matchup too? But if you want to comment on fasallas specifically, look at my previous comments directed to frozn.

    Where do I say that I'm asking for perfectly neutral fights?

    "what's the point of dueling if the fight is only decided by the person with the better build for the specific fight?"

    As I said, we have the tools to play against Fasallas. Choosing to cry for a ban is choosing to acknowledge that you don't know how or want to play against it and is nothing to do with it "over performing".
    Edited by donJay on October 9, 2016 12:32AM
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  • LeifErickson
    LeifErickson
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    donJay wrote: »
    donJay wrote: »
    donJay wrote: »
    frozywozy wrote: »
    donJay wrote: »
    frozywozy wrote: »
    donJay wrote: »
    So sad that people still call for a ban on fasallas. Either they don't know how to counter it or they do and chose not to. L2p. People want duels that protect their comfort zone and basic gameplay

    Fasalla's counter any templar who decide to use ritual of retribution in a battle. I use ritual of retribution for extra damage and stealth detection. We are not allowed to respec skills during the tournament so I am forced to go for extended ritual to counter one set of gear, which is pathetic.

    It's an mmo with gear based PvP. I've beaten every other fasallas Templar by: not using ritual when I need to heal or any skill for that matter. You aren't forced. You are choosing to take unnecessary precautions when all you have to do is counter play. I know it sounds crazy, but a 2 sec debuff that you can hold block through and heal right after is pretty straight forward. People are also complaining about fasallas because it protects their survivability tanky meta builds. In the rules, you can even swap skills.

    I'm not worried about a templar using it. I'm worried about a dual wield dot builds or a magDK using it. I'm not going to go respec my morphs in Deshaan simply because I'm facing one of those using it. That set is over performing largely in duels.


    in a mmo where pvp is gear based.

    Are you saying that you think it's a good thing that fights are decided by what the players are wearing and not the actual skill of that player? If so, what's the point in even dueling if the fight is only decided by the person with the better build for the specific fight?

    Idc if it's bad or good. You're the one playing an mmo. Play tekken or super smash if you want 1v1's where you can't customize your abilities or gear. You are literally asking for perfectly neutral no slight advantage whatsoever for EVERY MATCHUP in an mmo. Classes already have disadvantages against other regardless of armor. You want to comment on each matchup too? But if you want to comment on fasallas specifically, look at my previous comments directed to frozn.

    Where do I say that I'm asking for perfectly neutral fights?

    "what's the point of dueling if the fight is only decided by the person with the better build for the specific fight?"

    As I said, we have the tools to play against Fasallas. Choosing to cry for a ban is choosing to acknowledge that you don't know how or want to play against it and is nothing to do with it "over performing".

    From reading my quote, you proved me right. And I never said that fasallas is op.
  • frozywozy
    frozywozy
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    donJay wrote: »
    frozywozy wrote: »
    donJay wrote: »
    frozywozy wrote: »
    donJay wrote: »
    frozywozy wrote: »
    donJay wrote: »
    So sad that people still call for a ban on fasallas. Either they don't know how to counter it or they do and chose not to. L2p. People want duels that protect their comfort zone and basic gameplay

    Fasalla's counter any templar who decide to use ritual of retribution in a battle. I use ritual of retribution for extra damage and stealth detection. We are not allowed to respec skills during the tournament so I am forced to go for extended ritual to counter one set of gear, which is pathetic.

    It's an mmo with gear based PvP. I've beaten every other fasallas Templar by: not using ritual when I need to heal or any skill for that matter. You aren't forced. You are choosing to take unnecessary precautions when all you have to do is counter play. I know it sounds crazy, but a 2 sec debuff that you can hold block through and heal right after is pretty straight forward. People are also complaining about fasallas because it protects their survivability tanky meta builds. In the rules, you can even swap skills.

    I'm not worried about a templar using it. I'm worried about a dual wield dot builds or a magDK using it. I'm not going to go respec my morphs in Deshaan simply because I'm facing one of those using it. That set is over performing largely in duels.


    I just broke down this argument in my previous response to you. You can literally copy and paste the strat to playing against fasallas against any other class. Your definition of "overperforming" is not being able to handle your own use of a specific morph of a skill against a player using a specific gear in a mmo where pvp is gear based. And your solution to your problem of not withstanding higher level play is to ban a set. Do you not realize what you're saying? Let's not make this harder than it needs to be

    Give me a comparaison of any other set that counter a specific ability in the game other than shieldbreaker (shieldbreaker was banned from most dueling touirnament for this specific reason).

    What does this comment have to do with our discussion of Fasallas? or in your case lack there of. Fasallas counters the survivability meta (which most builds are centered around) but absolutely contributes nothing resource or dmg-wise to taking out an opponent or their shields. You can still re-read my responses to learn how play against. Or hell, you can get the set yourself and I or anyone else can prove to you that you can actually counter play it if you put any amount of effort in. And your question is flawed anyway. It doesn't counter any ability. It counters the player who used the ability and/or the player who doesn't want to think in duels about anything else other than their dps rotation and heals.

    Ps. Shield breaker is banned because shields are magika sorcs ONLY lifeline. They can't outplay It even if they tried because they don't have the tools. But we have the tools to play against Fasallas.(not attack for 2 sec). And if you are complaining ONLY because you don't know what do without your dmg purify morph for 2 secs, we have bigger things to talk about.

    As I said, Fasalla's on a dot build counters entirely a magplar using RItual of Retribution to purge. Everytime I try to purge all the debuffs from myself (it removes only 2 debuffs unlike Extended Ritual so I have to literally spam it especially against MagDK), it keeps the Fasalla's debuff on me permanently.

    It is riduclous to say "wait two second to deal dmg. That would mean to wait 12seconds for my ritual to fade, then an extra 2seconds for the fasalla's to disappears, which is pathetic to think of in the first time. I can't believe I have to actually explain this.
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    • Fix Volendrung (spawn location - weapon white on the map causing the wielder to keep it forever - usable with emperorship)
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  • donJay
    donJay
    ✭✭✭
    donJay wrote: »
    donJay wrote: »
    donJay wrote: »
    frozywozy wrote: »
    donJay wrote: »
    frozywozy wrote: »
    donJay wrote: »
    So sad that people still call for a ban on fasallas. Either they don't know how to counter it or they do and chose not to. L2p. People want duels that protect their comfort zone and basic gameplay

    Fasalla's counter any templar who decide to use ritual of retribution in a battle. I use ritual of retribution for extra damage and stealth detection. We are not allowed to respec skills during the tournament so I am forced to go for extended ritual to counter one set of gear, which is pathetic.

    It's an mmo with gear based PvP. I've beaten every other fasallas Templar by: not using ritual when I need to heal or any skill for that matter. You aren't forced. You are choosing to take unnecessary precautions when all you have to do is counter play. I know it sounds crazy, but a 2 sec debuff that you can hold block through and heal right after is pretty straight forward. People are also complaining about fasallas because it protects their survivability tanky meta builds. In the rules, you can even swap skills.

    I'm not worried about a templar using it. I'm worried about a dual wield dot builds or a magDK using it. I'm not going to go respec my morphs in Deshaan simply because I'm facing one of those using it. That set is over performing largely in duels.


    in a mmo where pvp is gear based.

    Are you saying that you think it's a good thing that fights are decided by what the players are wearing and not the actual skill of that player? If so, what's the point in even dueling if the fight is only decided by the person with the better build for the specific fight?

    Idc if it's bad or good. You're the one playing an mmo. Play tekken or super smash if you want 1v1's where you can't customize your abilities or gear. You are literally asking for perfectly neutral no slight advantage whatsoever for EVERY MATCHUP in an mmo. Classes already have disadvantages against other regardless of armor. You want to comment on each matchup too? But if you want to comment on fasallas specifically, look at my previous comments directed to frozn.

    Where do I say that I'm asking for perfectly neutral fights?

    "what's the point of dueling if the fight is only decided by the person with the better build for the specific fight?"

    As I said, we have the tools to play against Fasallas. Choosing to cry for a ban is choosing to acknowledge that you don't know how or want to play against it and is nothing to do with it "over performing".

    From reading my quote, you proved me right. And I never said that fasallas is op.


    Lol, then we gucci. Thought you were saying Fasallas is op.
    frozywozy wrote: »
    donJay wrote: »
    frozywozy wrote: »
    donJay wrote: »
    frozywozy wrote: »
    donJay wrote: »
    frozywozy wrote: »
    donJay wrote: »
    So sad that people still call for a ban on fasallas. Either they don't know how to counter it or they do and chose not to. L2p. People want duels that protect their comfort zone and basic gameplay

    Fasalla's counter any templar who decide to use ritual of retribution in a battle. I use ritual of retribution for extra damage and stealth detection. We are not allowed to respec skills during the tournament so I am forced to go for extended ritual to counter one set of gear, which is pathetic.

    It's an mmo with gear based PvP. I've beaten every other fasallas Templar by: not using ritual when I need to heal or any skill for that matter. You aren't forced. You are choosing to take unnecessary precautions when all you have to do is counter play. I know it sounds crazy, but a 2 sec debuff that you can hold block through and heal right after is pretty straight forward. People are also complaining about fasallas because it protects their survivability tanky meta builds. In the rules, you can even swap skills.

    I'm not worried about a templar using it. I'm worried about a dual wield dot builds or a magDK using it. I'm not going to go respec my morphs in Deshaan simply because I'm facing one of those using it. That set is over performing largely in duels.


    I just broke down this argument in my previous response to you. You can literally copy and paste the strat to playing against fasallas against any other class. Your definition of "overperforming" is not being able to handle your own use of a specific morph of a skill against a player using a specific gear in a mmo where pvp is gear based. And your solution to your problem of not withstanding higher level play is to ban a set. Do you not realize what you're saying? Let's not make this harder than it needs to be

    Give me a comparaison of any other set that counter a specific ability in the game other than shieldbreaker (shieldbreaker was banned from most dueling touirnament for this specific reason).

    What does this comment have to do with our discussion of Fasallas? or in your case lack there of. Fasallas counters the survivability meta (which most builds are centered around) but absolutely contributes nothing resource or dmg-wise to taking out an opponent or their shields. You can still re-read my responses to learn how play against. Or hell, you can get the set yourself and I or anyone else can prove to you that you can actually counter play it if you put any amount of effort in. And your question is flawed anyway. It doesn't counter any ability. It counters the player who used the ability and/or the player who doesn't want to think in duels about anything else other than their dps rotation and heals.

    Ps. Shield breaker is banned because shields are magika sorcs ONLY lifeline. They can't outplay It even if they tried because they don't have the tools. But we have the tools to play against Fasallas.(not attack for 2 sec). And if you are complaining ONLY because you don't know what do without your dmg purify morph for 2 secs, we have bigger things to talk about.

    As I said, Fasalla's on a dot build counters entirely a magplar using RItual of Retribution to purge. Everytime I try to purge all the debuffs from myself (it removes only 2 debuffs unlike Extended Ritual so I have to literally spam it especially against MagDK), it keeps the Fasalla's debuff on me permanently.

    It is riduclous to say "wait two second to deal dmg. That would mean to wait 12seconds for my ritual to fade, then an extra 2seconds for the fasalla's to disappears, which is pathetic to think of in the first time. I can't believe I have to actually explain this.


    THEN REMORPH IT! You just answered your own question. You are literally saying "when I use this skill I put myself at a disadvantage, but I chose to because I don't want to remorph it". Wtf lol?!?!? If you are complaining that you have to think hard to figure out another way to win...lol
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  • Magnex
    Magnex
    ✭✭
    Instead of banning specific sets, it might be fun to make a only crafted sets rule (other than jewelry). There is less barrier of entry this way. You could also say no CP, which lowers the barrier of entry even more.

    Depending on the turn out of this one, a no CP tournament is something I would also want to do.
  • Magnex
    Magnex
    ✭✭
    NBrookus wrote: »
    I'd probably just lose the first match with my 5k, so I'll probably pass, but may come to watch. I assume spectators are allowed or even encouraged?
    Instead of banning specific sets, it might be fun to make a only crafted sets rule (other than jewelry). There is less barrier of entry this way. You could also say no CP, which lowers the barrier of entry even more.

    That sounds like a fun set of rules, and since we now have dueling, maybe someone will organize a tournament along those lines.

    Nothing wrong with coming to watch, you are more than welcome.
  • Zeuq
    Zeuq
    ✭✭✭
    Magnex wrote: »
    Zeuq wrote: »
    You should ban all poisons, black rose, and fassalas guile, and also how do you know if someone is using lingering health potions, I'm pretty sure there is no indicator right?

    shouldnt buff tracker show someone's major vitality?

    I'm not sure actually I heard that it does and someone told me it doesn't I guess whoever is hosting the tourny should check that
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  • Asgari
    Asgari
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    For magicka users who use fasalla they give up a decent amount of dmg which is a fair trade off. However, stamina users using cassava give up almost no dmg regardless of what people might think. This is especially true for all classes excluding Stamplar who have no active stamina return through passives or skills.

    In my opinion for duels fassala should not be allowed. There's are other ways to heal debuff that do not have a 100% uptime.
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  • PrinceFabious
    PrinceFabious
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    For magicka users who use fasalla they give up a decent amount of dmg which is a fair trade off. However, stamina users using cassava give up almost no dmg regardless of what people might think. This is especially true for all classes excluding Stamplar who have no active stamina return through passives or skills.

    In my opinion for duels fassala should not be allowed. There's are other ways to heal debuff that do not have a 100% uptime.
    But stamplars who camp there major vitality circle and blackrose/duneripper meta builds dont deserved to be heal debuffed? Lol
  • PainfulFAFA
    PainfulFAFA
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Fasallas is trash just like anybody who still uses it lol
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  • arkansas_ESO
    arkansas_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    You can't pick and choose what to ban. A build is a build. If your going to ban things the only real fair fight is no cp, no gear, no skills. L2P

    People seem to forget that ESO was a game designed and balanced around large scale PVP. It makes sense that certain items and abilities can be balanced in the context of large scale PVP (20v20 and up) but unbalanced in the context of a 1v1, and since ESO was originally designed and balanced as a large scale PVP game, certain aspects are going to be unbalanced in the context of a 1v1. Since the ultimate goal of any tournament is to provide fun, balanced fights for it's participants and entertaining fights for it's spectators, it makes sense to ban certain items (certain sets, potions, poisons, etc.) that detract from this goal.

    @OP, I definitely agree on banning Fasalla's. A 50% healing debuff that stacks with Major and Minor Defile and is realistically up for 80+% of the fight doesn't make for fun or fair fights.
    Edited by arkansas_ESO on October 10, 2016 9:31AM


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  • arkansas_ESO
    arkansas_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    donJay wrote: »
    frozywozy wrote: »
    donJay wrote: »
    frozywozy wrote: »
    donJay wrote: »
    frozywozy wrote: »
    donJay wrote: »
    So sad that people still call for a ban on fasallas. Either they don't know how to counter it or they do and chose not to. L2p. People want duels that protect their comfort zone and basic gameplay

    Fasalla's counter any templar who decide to use ritual of retribution in a battle. I use ritual of retribution for extra damage and stealth detection. We are not allowed to respec skills during the tournament so I am forced to go for extended ritual to counter one set of gear, which is pathetic.

    It's an mmo with gear based PvP. I've beaten every other fasallas Templar by: not using ritual when I need to heal or any skill for that matter. You aren't forced. You are choosing to take unnecessary precautions when all you have to do is counter play. I know it sounds crazy, but a 2 sec debuff that you can hold block through and heal right after is pretty straight forward. People are also complaining about fasallas because it protects their survivability tanky meta builds. In the rules, you can even swap skills.

    I'm not worried about a templar using it. I'm worried about a dual wield dot builds or a magDK using it. I'm not going to go respec my morphs in Deshaan simply because I'm facing one of those using it. That set is over performing largely in duels.


    I just broke down this argument in my previous response to you. You can literally copy and paste the strat to playing against fasallas against any other class. Your definition of "overperforming" is not being able to handle your own use of a specific morph of a skill against a player using a specific gear in a mmo where pvp is gear based. And your solution to your problem of not withstanding higher level play is to ban a set. Do you not realize what you're saying? Let's not make this harder than it needs to be

    Give me a comparaison of any other set that counter a specific ability in the game other than shieldbreaker (shieldbreaker was banned from most dueling touirnament for this specific reason).

    What does this comment have to do with our discussion of Fasallas? or in your case lack there of. Fasallas counters the survivability meta (which most builds are centered around) but absolutely contributes nothing resource or dmg-wise to taking out an opponent or their shields. You can still re-read my responses to learn how play against. Or hell, you can get the set yourself and I or anyone else can prove to you that you can actually counter play it if you put any amount of effort in. And your question is flawed anyway. It doesn't counter any ability. It counters the player who used the ability and/or the player who doesn't want to think in duels about anything else other than their dps rotation and heals.

    Ps. Shield breaker is banned because shields are magika sorcs ONLY lifeline. They can't outplay It even if they tried because they don't have the tools. But we have the tools to play against Fasallas.(not attack for 2 sec). And if you are complaining ONLY because you don't know what do without your dmg purify morph for 2 secs, we have bigger things to talk about.

    The issue with Fasalla's is that it's a very, very hard counter to most builds, like you've said. The set is so above and beyond any other options we have available that you'd basically be shooting yourself in the foot by not running it (and, in addition, shooting yourself in the foot by not playing a class with access to a cheap purge, AKA Templar)

    For the record, I'm not a fan of the fact that so many builds can sustain resources indefinitely, and, if no-CP duels were an option, I'd likely play them exclusively. But keeping Fasalla's in the tournament isn't the way to go about it, as it will only serve to decrease build variety at the tournament.
    Edited by arkansas_ESO on October 10, 2016 8:24AM


    Grand Overlord 25/8/17
  • Hans4n6
    Hans4n6
    ✭✭
    How did this go? Did you use a program to control the brackets? If so would you mind telling me which one
      <Legion of the Bloodworks(GM) - a PvE Training Guild
      <Westwind Claws- a WW RP guild
      <Epic Synergy
      <ETU


      PC,NA
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