ZOS ignores feedback they specifically asked for... (Monster Sets)

RazielSR · October 2016

130 keys,about 87% training and prosperous.

And they were supossed to remove stupid traits.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · October 2016

code65536 wrote: »

Ah, but do you remember the good old days when a gold key only had a 50% chance at getting a shoulder and a silver key only had a 10% chance?

Back before Dark Brotherhood, a character doing both the normal and vet pledges each day would get, on average, 3 shoulders every 5 days.

Now, a character doing one normal-difficulty pledge and one veteran-difficulty pledge will get 3 keys, each with a 100% chance at a shoulder, for 15 shoulders every 5 days, for a five-fold increase. They could, optionally, get twice that many if they opt for three pledges all at veteran difficulty.

For someone who puts in enough time to do one normal-scaled and one vet-scaled pledge per day (and assuming that they skip half the DLC pledges, for the simplicity of the math and to also account for the greater amount of time needed for the DLC pledges), this is the reward rate that they had at various points in the game's history:
Update 5: 0.6 shoulders/day, 10 sets/chest, 6 traits; on average, once every 300 days (the trait table originally had Infused, Divines, Impenetrable, Reinforced, Well-Fitted, and Sturdy--yes, they had Sturdy in the loot table back when Sturdy just reduced armor degradation; I daresay that's even worse than Training and Prosperous)

Update 7: 0.6 shoulders/day, 12 sets/chest, 5 traits; on average, once every 300 days (Sturdy was removed from the loot table)

Update 10: 1.5 shoulders/day, 12 sets/chest, 7 traits; on average, once every 168 days (Sturdy, Prosperous, and Training were added, Impenetrable was removed, Gold rate now 100% and Silver rate now 50%)

Update 11: 1.5 shoulders/day, 14 sets/chest, 7 traits; on average, once every 196 days

Update 12: 3 shoulders/day, 12 sets/chest, 8 traits; on average, once every 96 days (Impenetrable restored)

Again, these figures are calibrated for 1 normal-difficulty and 1 veteran-difficulty pledge per day (to keep the time investment consistent for comparison purposes), but players now have the option to get up to 6 shoulders/day/character.

To be clear, I don't think Prosperous and Training are useful for endgame content (esp. Prosperous), but when it comes to the question of grindiness, for Monster sets, the vastly amped-up drop rate has more than compensated for the small amount of trait dilution that they've added.

This cannot be said for vMA weapons, though, where the botched trait rebalance meant that we went from 2 out of 3 viable traits to just 1 out of 8. But for monster sets, ZOS has been very generous.

Been here the whole time.

One thing that many have eluded to, and my rough data supports it, is that I do not believe Divines drops at the same rate of Training or Prosperous. I could certainly be wrong, but its a game changer if true.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · October 2016

I'll just leave this here...

From This discussion nearly five months ago on the PTS. The people have spoken, the message was clear.

WhiteMage · October 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

To further compound the idiocy and complete incompetency by the devs, any PVPer just needs to wait for their shoulder to show up in the vendor and buy the perfect BIS shoulder for their build in impenetrable (it doesnt need to be in the loot table).

Hey, I'll have you know that it isn't all fine and dandy for us PvPers either with the Golden vendor. It's just as bad (if not worse) RNG over here. Once per week she comes and offers a helm or shoulder piece, in all weights and in BiS trait, BUT, and this is a big but, my friend, it is not as wonderful as you make it out to be. She only offers this once per week and you can end up where I am right now. She has NEVER put up an impenetrable bloodspawn helm but has put up multiple bloodspawn shoulders. Heck, maw of the infernal was there for 2 straight weeks at one point. You can try at least 7 times per week in PvE-land (and I think with U12 up to 42 times per week! (Hard mode vet for 2 keys on all 3 pledges every day)).

The world isn't as stacked against a just you as you might think. Sometimes the grass is greener on your side.

That's said, prosperous and training traits are a problem. BEGONE WITH YE!

SkylarkX · October 2016

Cashed in all of my keys, trophies and treasure maps today - got nothing but trash traits on everything.

AlnilamE · October 2016

So you want a 100% drop rate always in Divines or Impenetrable?

kadar · October 2016

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

I'll just leave this here...

From This discussion nearly five months ago on the PTS. The people have spoken, the message was clear.

And even that 5% are just annoying types who like to disagree and argue about everything just for the sake of arguing.

Mojmir · October 2016

AlnilamE wrote: »

So you want a 100% drop rate always in Divines or Impenetrable?

I'd be happy with infused,200 keys dropped and 150 of them we're training/prosperous.

OtarTheMad · October 2016

Yup, almost threw my keyboard against the wall when I opened some chests and got awesome monster sets but they are training and useless trait number 2.

Thanks for the purple mats ZOS? Can I have my 10 keys back now and I'll use them when you realize NO ONE wants monster sets in these two traits. Thanks.

Astanphaeus · October 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

To further compound the idiocy and complete incompetency by the devs, any PVPer just needs to wait for their shoulder to show up in the vendor and buy the perfect BIS shoulder for their build in impenetrable (it doesnt need to be in the loot table). PvE players have no such option. There is no way to purchase a BIS PVE shoulder as it currently stands. If anybody talks about infused shoulder pieces, I will lose my mind. Its a mediocre trait at best on big pieces (helms) and totally F'ing useless on small pieces (shoulders).

You were doing well until you got to this point. To explain your idiocy, we now have 28 monster helm sets I believe. That means that assuming they don't give us any repeats, it would take 56 weeks to cycle through all pieces. 56 weeks is more than a year. And from experience with that fricken Maw of the Infernal, we know that they do repeat pieces. So impen does need to be in the loot table.

Astanphaeus · October 2016

For the record, I do believe that the shoulders sold or gold at the vendor should be Divines.

Jaronking · October 2016

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

I'll just leave this here...

From This discussion nearly five months ago on the PTS. The people have spoken, the message was clear.

Look at this thread https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/88049/do-you-think-there-should-be-an-aoe-cap/p1
almost 4000 people voted against AOE the largest poll I believe to date and ZOS added it anyway and every since then PVP has gotten worst and more players left.

RinaldoGandolphi · October 2016

I'd rather get nothing then a trash trait that's not worth anything more then a Decon

Looking at a prosperous or training shoulder of a set I need infuriates me far more then getting nothing. It's the ultimate troll...it's saying "here's that set you want;too bad this one is worthless haha" I'd rather get zilch then look at that..just my 2 cents

God_flakes · October 2016

I have been a loyal customer since launch. I have never in my life felt more kicked in the face with any patch than I do tonight. I logged in disgust after a couple hours. As a player who DETESTS pve and only ever purchased this game and continue to play it for the pvp aspect-I have never felt more discouraged to continue playing in my very limited spare time. I work full time and have lots of responsibilities in my life. I don't have endless time to devote to stupid dungeons in the "rare hope" of getting a piece of gear that will allow me to stay competitive in pvp. I've always relied on crafted sets or sets I could purchase. Now? I'm FORCED to pve (something I hate and don't have time for) or I will eventually be driven out of the game by all the die-hards who do have time to do dungeon after dungeon to acquire these incredibly stupidly OP monster sets. So as usual it's F U casual players who pay subs who enjoy pvp ( a lot of their player base) and come on everyone grind grind grind our boring dungeons over and over and *maybe* a piece of worthwhile gear will
drop! Crafting? Obsolete. Trading sets? Nope! Can't do that either! Buying sets? NOPE! Grind or don't play.

I give myself another couple months and I'm done. No way can I compete with the no lifers who can grind grind grind and acquire massively OP sets.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · October 2016

Best Kra'gh helm I got was Medium Prosperous. So close...

Alucardo · October 2016

And what happened to the "smart drop" system. Why did I receive a lightning staff that increases my WEAPON DAMAGE when DODGE ROLLING?

Oreyn_Bearclaw · October 2016

AlnilamE wrote: »

So you want a 100% drop rate always in Divines or Impenetrable?

What I want is an intelligent loot system that allows one to work towards a goal. I do not want anything fast or easy. I would gladly run a dungeon 50 times to get a guaranteed item, rather than continue to roll what are clearly loaded dice.

ForsakenSin · October 2016

God_flakes wrote: »

I have been a loyal customer since launch. I have never in my life felt more kicked in the face with any patch than I do tonight. I logged in disgust after a couple hours. As a player who DETESTS pve and only ever purchased this game and continue to play it for the pvp aspect-I have never felt more discouraged to continue playing in my very limited spare time. I work full time and have lots of responsibilities in my life. I don't have endless time to devote to stupid dungeons in the "rare hope" of getting a piece of gear that will allow me to stay competitive in pvp. I've always relied on crafted sets or sets I could purchase. Now? I'm FORCED to pve (something I hate and don't have time for) or I will eventually be driven out of the game by all the die-hards who do have time to do dungeon after dungeon to acquire these incredibly stupidly OP monster sets. So as usual it's F U casual players who pay subs who enjoy pvp ( a lot of their player base) and come on everyone grind grind grind our boring dungeons over and over and *maybe* a piece of worthwhile gear will
drop! Crafting? Obsolete. Trading sets? Nope! Can't do that either! Buying sets? NOPE! Grind or don't play.

I give myself another couple months and I'm done. No way can I compete with the no lifers who can grind grind grind and acquire massively OP sets.

This is one of the main reason i and allot of my friends quit destiny , for the fact you need 12 people ( or 6 i can't remember) to do this trials that lasted for 3hr at least just so there is a chance you will get a drop items that was right for you in order to lv up and be competitive ... and guess what ? if you didn't good luck finding another 12 people who 1st want to do that trial and 2end will allow you cos of your low level and dps that you had no choice in it...

this is getting to be very similar... in order to stay on par with other players u need to run trials which will take time .... at least up until now i could do the following..

limited time ? ok i will do writs and just get mats ... refine mats get temper ..sell mats and temper wax ect get gold... buy the item i need... get stronger and be able to have fun in pvp OR spending time with my friends farming monster helm

but now its all changed.. if i want that item i need to find time to .. find the actual people who will run it and not give up in the end or leave... and then run it.. pray to God i will get the item i need , pray again somebody else will get it and either sell it to me and hope nobody else will outbid me...

i really really hate the BOP items

Nefas · October 2016

Prosperous is Preposterous, Training is Draining.

DRXHarbinger · October 2016

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

They asked for suggestions....ignored it. Just removed the two from trials and dungeons iirc and that was it...enjoy your guaranteed prosperous illambris shoulders.

Oh man... At least the Helm will be a guaranteed drop on HM Crypt of Heart 1. A few hours of farming and we'll have our BiS helm. The shoulder is a whole other story... Savin up those damn keys man.

Make sure you got the day off work @IzakiBrotheSs I got the day after launch off. With pc release taking like 9hrs console launch is a write off. We will farm it all day long. COH and vaults. Need me some Grothdarr too.

227 keys and counting. 16 today from wgt too.

MarRyb · October 2016

What a surprise.

Prosperous and Training trait should NOT be part of any end game drops.

This is just highlighting the fact that ZOS decisions makers do not care about their player base. It is just pure ignorance and it proves that they do not know their own game lol.

What a shame lol.

Joy_Division · October 2016

AlnilamE wrote: »

So you want a 100% drop rate always in Divines or Impenetrable?

No.

We want what we told ZoS way back in the Thieve's guild PTS when they change the traits: make sure every trait at least has some tangible and desirable combat bonus such that they are useful to a build even if not BiS.

This way even if I don't get divines or impen, I don't feel the need to run the same dungeon 278 times because what I got is good enough to play/compete with.

God_flakes · October 2016

ForsakenSin wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

I have been a loyal customer since launch. I have never in my life felt more kicked in the face with any patch than I do tonight. I logged in disgust after a couple hours. As a player who DETESTS pve and only ever purchased this game and continue to play it for the pvp aspect-I have never felt more discouraged to continue playing in my very limited spare time. I work full time and have lots of responsibilities in my life. I don't have endless time to devote to stupid dungeons in the "rare hope" of getting a piece of gear that will allow me to stay competitive in pvp. I've always relied on crafted sets or sets I could purchase. Now? I'm FORCED to pve (something I hate and don't have time for) or I will eventually be driven out of the game by all the die-hards who do have time to do dungeon after dungeon to acquire these incredibly stupidly OP monster sets. So as usual it's F U casual players who pay subs who enjoy pvp ( a lot of their player base) and come on everyone grind grind grind our boring dungeons over and over and *maybe* a piece of worthwhile gear will
drop! Crafting? Obsolete. Trading sets? Nope! Can't do that either! Buying sets? NOPE! Grind or don't play.

I give myself another couple months and I'm done. No way can I compete with the no lifers who can grind grind grind and acquire massively OP sets.

This is one of the main reason i and allot of my friends quit destiny , for the fact you need 12 people ( or 6 i can't remember) to do this trials that lasted for 3hr at least just so there is a chance you will get a drop items that was right for you in order to lv up and be competitive ... and guess what ? if you didn't good luck finding another 12 people who 1st want to do that trial and 2end will allow you cos of your low level and dps that you had no choice in it...

this is getting to be very similar... in order to stay on par with other players u need to run trials which will take time .... at least up until now i could do the following..

limited time ? ok i will do writs and just get mats ... refine mats get temper ..sell mats and temper wax ect get gold... buy the item i need... get stronger and be able to have fun in pvp OR spending time with my friends farming monster helm

but now its all changed.. if i want that item i need to find time to .. find the actual people who will run it and not give up in the end or leave... and then run it.. pray to God i will get the item i need , pray again somebody else will get it and either sell it to me and hope nobody else will outbid me...

i really really hate the BOP items

The sets are bind on pick up in dungeons now-can't even trade or sell them anymore.

(or at least that's what I'm told.)

Flak · October 2016

The so-called "smart-drops" are also working rly well... got two Bows of Twilight Remedy (Healerset) yesterday in vMoL.
Good job

Oreyn_Bearclaw · October 2016

God_flakes wrote: »

ForsakenSin wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

I have been a loyal customer since launch. I have never in my life felt more kicked in the face with any patch than I do tonight. I logged in disgust after a couple hours. As a player who DETESTS pve and only ever purchased this game and continue to play it for the pvp aspect-I have never felt more discouraged to continue playing in my very limited spare time. I work full time and have lots of responsibilities in my life. I don't have endless time to devote to stupid dungeons in the "rare hope" of getting a piece of gear that will allow me to stay competitive in pvp. I've always relied on crafted sets or sets I could purchase. Now? I'm FORCED to pve (something I hate and don't have time for) or I will eventually be driven out of the game by all the die-hards who do have time to do dungeon after dungeon to acquire these incredibly stupidly OP monster sets. So as usual it's F U casual players who pay subs who enjoy pvp ( a lot of their player base) and come on everyone grind grind grind our boring dungeons over and over and *maybe* a piece of worthwhile gear will
drop! Crafting? Obsolete. Trading sets? Nope! Can't do that either! Buying sets? NOPE! Grind or don't play.

I give myself another couple months and I'm done. No way can I compete with the no lifers who can grind grind grind and acquire massively OP sets.

This is one of the main reason i and allot of my friends quit destiny , for the fact you need 12 people ( or 6 i can't remember) to do this trials that lasted for 3hr at least just so there is a chance you will get a drop items that was right for you in order to lv up and be competitive ... and guess what ? if you didn't good luck finding another 12 people who 1st want to do that trial and 2end will allow you cos of your low level and dps that you had no choice in it...

this is getting to be very similar... in order to stay on par with other players u need to run trials which will take time .... at least up until now i could do the following..

limited time ? ok i will do writs and just get mats ... refine mats get temper ..sell mats and temper wax ect get gold... buy the item i need... get stronger and be able to have fun in pvp OR spending time with my friends farming monster helm

but now its all changed.. if i want that item i need to find time to .. find the actual people who will run it and not give up in the end or leave... and then run it.. pray to God i will get the item i need , pray again somebody else will get it and either sell it to me and hope nobody else will outbid me...

i really really hate the BOP items

The sets are bind on pick up in dungeons now-can't even trade or sell them anymore. (or at least that's what I'm told.)

They can be traded in the group, but that's it. The dungeon loot must be farmed at this point. It's really not all that bad as each dungeon has very specific sets, and they drop a lot. Helms arent bad either. I got my Divines Llambris in about 6 runs.

The Bind on Group really does help a LOT, and to be honest, other then no BOE for trials, I dont hate most of the new loot system. The problem remains is that there are 2 chests that are still at the mercy of pure RNG with a loot table much bigger than it should be: Monster Shoulders and VMA weapons.

Admittedly, the trait on one piece of armor is not game breaking by any means, but the trait on your weapon is a deal breaker. For example, a magic DPS has one choice in Maelstrom Weapon, a Sharp Destro. Oh you have a precise or nirn? Guess what, its complete trash, you are better off with a crafted non-set piece that is sharp. This is a different issue, but the balance in weapon traits has totally disappeared. It's sharp or nothing.

Flak wrote: »

The so-called "smart-drops" are also working rly well... got two Bows of Twilight Remedy (Healerset) yesterday in vMoL.
Good job

As far as I can tell, this is non-existent in dungeons, but havent tried a trail yet. What you are saying is really infuriating. I got all kinds of non-sense weapons yesterday in my Llambris farm in 4-man stuff. I was really hoping that the mystical Infallable sharp Destro would be a little easier to come by now...

Oreyn_Bearclaw · October 2016

Astanphaeus wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

To further compound the idiocy and complete incompetency by the devs, any PVPer just needs to wait for their shoulder to show up in the vendor and buy the perfect BIS shoulder for their build in impenetrable (it doesnt need to be in the loot table). PvE players have no such option. There is no way to purchase a BIS PVE shoulder as it currently stands. If anybody talks about infused shoulder pieces, I will lose my mind. Its a mediocre trait at best on big pieces (helms) and totally F'ing useless on small pieces (shoulders).

You were doing well until you got to this point. To explain your idiocy, we now have 28 monster helm sets I believe. That means that assuming they don't give us any repeats, it would take 56 weeks to cycle through all pieces. 56 weeks is more than a year. And from experience with that fricken Maw of the Infernal, we know that they do repeat pieces. So inpen does need to be in the loot table.

For the record, I am perfectly fine with Impen in the loot table. It's useful, and I PVP. The point I was making is that PVP players do eventually have the option to buy there BIS at some point where PVE players do not. Maybe I didnt quite get around to saying it, but what I was really suggesting is that they should add divines to the gold vendor.

Transairion · October 2016

ZOS never ignored feedback, they just didn't cater to the whining people:

We have an update for you. We will be making the following changes to Trait attainability with the launch of Update 12:

Prosperous and Training will be removed as a valid Trait for all items that drop in Trials
Valid Traits for Trials and Leaderboard rewards are as follows:
Weapons – Infused, Powered, Precise, Defending, Sharpened, Charged, Decisive
Armor – Infused, Divines, Well-Fitted, Reinforced, Sturdy
Items drops in the overland and in dungeons will have a chance of dropping with all available Traits, including Impenetrable

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts with us on this subject. We appreciate how constructive this discussion has been, and the ideas shared.

They did exactly what they promised to do, nothing more nothing less.

If you incorrectly assumed traits you didn't like were being removed, that's your own fault.

130 keys,about 87% training and prosperous.

I'd love to see screenshots of this, and other completely hyperbolic claims of "I got 90% droprate from my keys!!".

RNG is bad, but not that bad.

God_flakes · October 2016

A 1 in 234 chance is draconian and cruel. If zos wants to keep players they're going to have to alter that.

phreatophile · October 2016

Flak wrote: »

The so-called "smart-drops" are also working rly well... got two Bows of Twilight Remedy (Healerset) yesterday in vMoL.
Good job

Had trouble giving away a Battleaxe of the Warlock and Bow of the Combat physician.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · October 2016

phreatophile wrote: »

Flak wrote: »

The so-called "smart-drops" are also working rly well... got two Bows of Twilight Remedy (Healerset) yesterday in vMoL.
Good job

Had trouble giving away a Battleaxe of the Warlock and Bow of the Combat physician.

Nobody wanted my Bow of the Lich either...