Guild Trader Bidding system needs work

babylon · September 2014

GnatB wrote: »

2. Remove the whole "bid" concept entirely, as well as first come first serve. Allow stalls to serve as many guilds as hire it (at a fixed price), but a guild can only hire 1 stall per week. Have hiring a stall automatically roll over unless explicitely cancelled, as long as there is enough money in the guild coffers. Better locations would have a higher price. When somebody buys from said merchant, they just see the combined listing of all guilds who have hired that particular stall. So sure, if the megaserver agrees, they could decide "NPC Y" is going to be the global merchant.

I came up with a similar idea to this as well.

Guild shops can be listed at kiosks in a range of areas.
Guild kiosks charge a range of flat fees depending on area.
Each guild paying the flat fee (depending on area) gets listed at the guild kiosk they chose, with a maximum of 100 guild shop listings at each kiosk (or whatever ZOS feels is an okay maximum).
Players are able to favourites shops so it's easier to find the ones they liked in the past.
Players now can go to an area and search through a lot more guild shops without needing to trek across 20 maps, and guilds can now all get a guild kiosk in the area they want to trade in (so long as they can pay the flat fee for that area).

jelliedsoup · September 2014

Don't understand the obsession with paying a gold fee to no one, to obtain rights. Does this money pay the devs wages? If so, I'm all for it. Otherwise, take it out. It's rubbish.

GnatB · September 2014

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Don't understand the obsession with paying a gold fee to no one, to obtain rights. Does this money pay the devs wages? If so, I'm all for it. Otherwise, take it out. It's rubbish.

Assuming guild sales are the only way to put money into the guilds coffers, (which I'd argue should be true) then different prices on the different stalls would sort of help categorize the quality of the goods sold by the guilds at those stalls. If guild X is only earning 30k gold per week, then they wouldn't be able to afford the "best location" stall that charges 40k per week. And it means that the 40k per week stall probably has higher quality stuff on it. Maybe higher end raid drops or whatever.

ThePonzzz · September 2014

It just feels they are doing everything in their power to keep us from going into an Auction House. If there was one centralized area for the traders, we'd basically have an Auction House.

At some point, someone has to realize what this does for a gaming economy is very poor. It doesn't really promote a healthy economy. It doesn't give a whole lot of purpose to having gold. There isn't a drive to farm really. The only people this helps are people who want big gains over a short period of time. Which is what they think they are trying to prevent without going to an Auction House.

jelliedsoup · September 2014

I don't see a problem with accessing all guilds stores like is done with your own guilds.

It would make the market flourish more than it does now. Sure some guilds would benefit more but that would be due to the ground work and deals offered. I cannot be bothered going round trying to find guild stores when most having nothing in them worth buying.

Giraffon · September 2014

There are certain guilds that carry things I'm most interested in. I currently have no way of finding their shop (guild trader) easily from week to week.

There are lots of ways to handle this in a lore-friendly way, but maybe the easiest would be to make available a "Guild Trader Roster" from any guild trader kiosk. The roster would show the trader names, description of location (ie: Coldharbor), and most importantly a "Currently Employed by" field. In my mind, the traders would know what the competition in the area is doing.

So as to avoid giving out TOO much information, I think the roster should only include entries for the current map. If you want to know what's going on in Glenumbra, you can't do it from Coldharbor.

curlyqloub14_ESO · September 2014

DenverRalphy wrote: »

While I'm not bagging on small guilds... To be honest, small guilds really have no business bidding on kiosks unless they sell enough to justify the ownership.

Lately, a lot of small guilds have been bidding high on kiosks, and a substantially large portion of the player base is wondering why they even bothered, because there aren't enough wares to justify the purchase.

But that's neither here nor there... Small guilds without the sales will eventually stop because they're just wasting money.

I think a lot of small guilds bid on kiosks simply because they think they have to. They don't take time to consider the ramifications. A PvE/PvP guild with no emphasis on merchant trade, and less than 75 members, really has no business bidding. (quite frankly, my 75 members estimate is WAY low...)

Yeah, I get your point, but that's exactly MY point also: on their own, small guilds don't have enough to support/justify a kiosk. Of COURSE they don't sell enough to justify ownership, because...obviously...they are small, so there's not as many people in the guild to buy or sell stuff. But if there was a way for small guilds to go in on a single kiosk together, then the guilds (or rather, the kiosk) would have more goods available for sale, and they would in turn sell more, because they'd have more exposure to buyers, just like bigger guilds.

Just because small guilds don't have as much sales as big trade guilds, doesn't mean they have nothing to sell. And of COURSE they want to use the kiosks too - because it's more exposure to buyers so that they CAN sell more. I don't think they bid on kiosks b/c they feel they have to, I think they do it for the same reasons anyone else does: more buyers, more sales. Big or small, motivation is the same.

The current kiosk system is just creating a larger rift in the economy...funnily enough...kinda like our real economy. The big guys get richer, and the little guys get shut out b/c they can't compete on their own. But, unlike the real world economy, this is a game - it doesn't have to be that way.

philip.ploegerb16_ESO · September 2014

+1 for Auction House.

curlyqloub14_ESO · September 2014

Yeah, as much as I don't care for another WoW clone, they did get that part right. I'd be happy to see an Auction House system implemented here if they can't find another way to address these issues.

olemanwinter · October 2014

Slurg wrote: »

I would instead propose a non blind bid system where one could see the high bid. And the ability for a guild to retract their bid and place it on a new trader if the bidding goes too high.

So simple. So obvious.

Why isn't it already like this? Sheesh.

abigfishy · November 2014

Sylvyr wrote: »

I used to have a very prosperous trade guild prior to the guild merchant implementation. Had about 400 active members with only a handful inactive for over a week. Had a large store and lots of trades in history.

I did get a merchant the first week at a very affordable price. Trades and guild bank grew quite well for that first week. The next week I lost the bid using a similar bid with a bit of upping it anticipating someone that lost the first week upping their bid. Lost the 2nd week. And sales dropped dramatically, recruiting came to a standstill as everyone started asking do you have a merchant? I dumped the entire guild bank on a bid the 3rd week and lost. between week 2 and 3 lost a lot of members and a ton of listings as people moved to guilds and goods to those with merchants. Haven't been able to recover since.

This system is rotten.

I had the exact same experience. My guild wasn't as big but around 250 members and going strong. Got traders for the first few weeks but haven't had one for ages. I bid every single gold in the bank and still fail. I bid on bad locations and still fail. Meanwhile I am bleeding members of the guild as they too move to guilds that have a trader. This has a snowball effect as the most active traders leave and the guild store becomes a lot worse.

Still have around 150 members but the great majority are inactives now. This system killed the guild. We can't afford 200,000 gold to bid on a kiosk, never getting one with our lower bids, can't recruit serious traders without a kiosk. Catch 22.

duncanmacleod08 · July 2015

Option 1:

What they need to do is have a centralized npc in each of the main starting cities that lists all guildstores on that alliance and one in the outlaws refuge like a blackmarket that list all alliances guildstores... make the guild traders in outlaws refuges the blackmarket ones with a higher listing fee then normal rest based on how many zones they would have to travel to reach said npc in city have a higher listing fee this would increase the value of certain prime guild traders and lower value of others... but been two weeks without a guild trader due to current blind bid system as well they need to list current bid when bidding and notify the person who placed bid via mail or something they have been outbid on a trader. also the guild stores need a damn search bar that goes by names and sort by color of gear to make it easier to find certain items we may be looking for.

Option 2:

that or they need to make guild store just list to everyone once it unlocked pay a flat fee to make it available for other ppl to see each week. then anything listed appears on a generalized auction house npc and guilds still get advantages of current guild store system cut only up the listing fee this would get rid of the need to having bidding wars each week and having to have ppl actually find your guild store to buy said item instead they just go to the auction house or whatever place you choose to call npc that list all guild stores on said faction and use search options to find what they are looking for. this would also allow a guild to choose when they put their store available to see based on quality store listings currently available on the store.

GTech_1 · July 2015

As much as I'd like to see some of the changes mentioned in this thread come to pass, from the lack of response, I gather that ZeniMax has no intention of changing the guild trader bidding system.

I say that, because my original post creating this thread was made over 10 months ago (Sept 2014), and the unsatisfactory bidding system is still exactly the same now as it was then.

Just in case this happens to actually work, I'll tag @ZOS_RichLambert and @ZOS_GinaBruno to see what happens.

For the record, I still like the suggestion of @DenverRalphy the best. For convenience, you can see it here:

GTech_1 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

The best method would be to create a new currency that can only be generated by guild store sales. Instead of the guild cut providing regular gold, Guild Store sales should reward 1 guild token for every 1000g received from guild cut taxes. The guild tokens can only be spent on kiosk bids, and the tokens cannot be traded, sold, or acquired in any other way.

This would force guilds to bid based on their sales income. Bid too much, and the guild takes a loss that can't be padded through member donations.

[edit]I mentioned the 1/1000 trade ratio as a mechanic to prevent guild members from just buying/selling items back and forth to their own members for the sole purpose of generating tokens. 1/1000 ratio would result in a significant loss of gold income should anybody try to pad their tokens.

This is a *great* idea Denver.
So many issues would be fixed with a change like this.
Imo, the biggest one would be the inability to pad the guild's earnings, and the bids, with player generated gold.

This is good stuff man, good stuff.

LEGENDARYYY · July 2015

The current system works just fine. I run four trading guilds. Why this system isn't a problem for me is probably because I've learned to embrace it. I do research, use spies, invest millions of my personal savings into guild banks, evil tactics, alliances.

That's what it takes to win, and I think it's intriguing.

Running trading guilds in this game is not for the lazy or those who wanna profit. I like that.

djinn1148 · October 2016

Ok. While reading most of this, I realize many people are less than happy with the design of the guild trader bidding system, but some of these suggestions seem more troublesome than the current system.
There is no perfect, please all fix, but I might have a suggestion to help ease the trouble of placing a bid.
1. Keep blind bidding, but only take half the amount between the winning bid, & the second highest bid. This allows for a more stable idea of what to spend on a trader.
2. Allow for bidding on up to three traders, allowing guilds to have more opportunities to acquire a trader. This would work as follows: bid on trade A - 250K, bid on trader B - 250K, and bid on trader C - 250K. Guild wins trader A, and the bids on traders B and C become null. In the instance that traders A and B are winners, trader A is obtained, and trader B is null, and goes to the runner up.

All of this is merely a suggestion, and could be improved on, I'm sure.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GaryA Any ideas?

Runs · October 2016

I really just want to see a bazaar where all the guild traders are circled around a waysrhine.

Nothing would need to change with the current guild traders either. You bid on them just like now. But when you win the bid you get the guild trader you bid on, and your guild gets an additional kiosk at the bazaar. The location at the bazaar is purely based on the winning bid amounts. Higher bids are closer to the wayshrine.

This would give us a system where we don't have to travel to every zone to find what we are looking for. Every trader kiosk would have value.

Also... Yo dawg, I heard you like necros...

AmberLaTerra · October 2016

just throw a 2nd winner in each kiosk with the high Bid having their name and store listed first as well as their name on the trader and the 2nd guild being a menu choice to look at. This would both effectively lower the cost of hub traders as there would be more access to being in them as well as cover a guild being out bid at the last minute in that they would still have their regular trader just be listed 2nd.

The primary problem with the system as it stands now is there are far more max size guilds then their are traders and they all want to be in the best places to get sales for their members causing competition and prices on traders to skyrocket, this is driving the mid tier guilds to bid more on non prime traders to not lose them to the major trade guilds who have lost their spot and causing even out of the way traders that do not do big sales to cost more then they could ever bring in sales wise.

The current system just keeps feeding itself in a vicious cycle of every increasing bid amounts to keep a trader making it so it is stagnating and only the richest guilds will be left standing, while other large trade guilds begin to collapse under the weight of the bids and newly rising guilds cannot even come close to getting a trader to begin with to step into the void when that finally happens.

The current bidding system is leading to a massive economic crash and drop in value of items due to a sheer lack of sales that would be nearly as bad as the massive inflation a global auction house would cause in prices.

Sirvandal · October 2016

The system as it is is perfect.

- Only guilds who take effort to recruit, promote, advertise and have a good marketing strategy are able to gain enough coin to bid on top locations.
- Prices are very diverse, you can find a lot of stuff for very nice prices (mostly at the lesser trade guilds) and resell it at the top guild your in with a nice profit (for you and the guild).
- 1 global market sytem will destroy the economie and trade guilds will be obsolete.
- Its THE perfect goldsink against inflation. Lots of gold is taken out the economie so prices not going skyhigh.
- Trade guilds will always come and go. This sytem makes it a challenge to start one and to become the best at the server.

Most of the guild owners who complain about this sytem are frustrated cause there guild blew up in there face. They refuse to work for it or were simply not fit to do the job (for me for example, my guild was always in the top 10 trade guilds at the EU server, I burned out of gold, inspiration and didn't know how to run it anymore. So I tried to find a buyer. I sold the guild and now its THE number 1 trade guild at the EU server).

Most buyers who complain about this sytem and want a global market are lazy players who refuse to do a round thru Tamriel to find goodies. Because they are lazy they go to the guild trader who got it all and then start complaining about the prices, DUHUH?!? some players did the work and want a little profit! In ESO you always have to work for the goodies you want, one way or the other.

A token system will not work. If this comes in game nobody wants to start a trade guild. Most trade guilds are started by traders who got gold to spend. They need to force themselves with ther new guild into the market to gain a good traderspot. With tokes they never can get a good location in the beginning and thats very important to have a succesful tradeguild.

Trade guilds are not just only trade guilds. Its a very important social system in the game. Trade guilds are used to find groups, trade secretly under the guild boss his nose, finding items you can't find at any guild trader in the world from some ones secret stash and so on, its simply fun a trade guild and to be in a few (global market system will kill this).

Tbh I do not understand why this topic pops up each few months at the forums and I seriously doubt that Zeni will change the guild trader sytem as it is....ITS PERFECT! :O)

AzraelKrieg · October 2016

craftycarper73 · October 2016

spam and scam guilds will always win.

AmberLaTerra · October 2016

Sirvandal wrote: »

The system as it is is perfect.

- Only guilds who take effort to recruit, promote, advertise and have a good marketing strategy are able to gain enough coin to bid on top locations.
- Prices are very diverse, you can find a lot of stuff for very nice prices (mostly at the lesser trade guilds) and resell it at the top guild your in with a nice profit (for you and the guild).
- 1 global market sytem will destroy the economie and trade guilds will be obsolete.
- Its THE perfect goldsink against inflation. Lots of gold is taken out the economie so prices not going skyhigh.
- Trade guilds will always come and go. This sytem makes it a challenge to start one and to become the best at the server.

Most of the guild owners who complain about this sytem are frustrated cause there guild blew up in there face. They refuse to work for it or were simply not fit to do the job (for me for example, my guild was always in the top 10 trade guilds at the EU server, I burned out of gold, inspiration and didn't know how to run it anymore. So I tried to find a buyer. I sold the guild and now its THE number 1 trade guild at the EU server).

Most buyers who complain about this sytem and want a global market are lazy players who refuse to do a round thru Tamriel to find goodies. Because they are lazy they go to the guild trader who got it all and then start complaining about the prices, DUHUH?!? some players did the work and want a little profit! In ESO you always have to work for the goodies you want, one way or the other.

A token system will not work. If this comes in game nobody wants to start a trade guild. Most trade guilds are started by traders who got gold to spend. They need to force themselves with ther new guild into the market to gain a good traderspot. With tokes they never can get a good location in the beginning and thats very important to have a succesful tradeguild.

Trade guilds are not just only trade guilds. Its a very important social system in the game. Trade guilds are used to find groups, trade secretly under the guild boss his nose, finding items you can't find at any guild trader in the world from some ones secret stash and so on, its simply fun a trade guild and to be in a few (global market system will kill this).

Tbh I do not understand why this topic pops up each few months at the forums and I seriously doubt that Zeni will change the guild trader sytem as it is....ITS PERFECT! :O)

Do you have any idea how much Kiosk prices have gone up in just the past 3 weeks? Grant it I don't know how it is outside of PC NA, but in PC NA the bid prices have more then tripled over the past 3 weeks. It is not a matter of guilds blowing up in guild owners faces, it is a matter of economics. There are traders costing over 8 million gold a week to keep them now. It is just not a sustainable system how it stands at current.

I love the system as it is, but the massive inflation in kiosk prices combined with most gold jewelry and other big ticket items becoming BoP or only popping up with luck on the Cyro vendor is going to massively hurt sales. Yes the overland sets will sell well for week or two, but the market on them will quickly be flooded.

How will gold improvement items, motifs, potions, flowers, and mats sustain costs as they have become without there being a major crash in trade guilds.

This topic is not about doing away with the trader system, it is about keeping it sustainable and operating as it if far more beneficial and far harder to manipulate then any other system. We are nearing a cross roads with one tam however where their have to be some adjustments to keep it available and usable and not see it crash due to the costs being at the point where even with raffles, auctions, and mass amounts of sales trade guilds banks are still getting smaller and smaller due to the costs being far more then all of those things combined can bring in.

The BOP changes are also going to have a massive negative impact on those auctions and raffles bringing in money as all new end game drops will not be able to be sold at auctions or raffled off to raise funds to pay for the Kiosk's. That makes the situation even more dire if a way to bleed off the stress on kiosk prices is not found.

Think about it, all this gold goes into bid and is removed from the game, as prices on gear crash and Motifs always drop over time what is going to cover the sales income to keep traders going, as they run out of money at the quickly increasing prices of kiosks yes new guilds will take their place, but how long will they last at the ever inflating prices that will eventually lead to more money leaving the game on trader bids then is coming into the game.

As money becomes more scares sales will drop making the problem worse as the only way to generate more sales will be to lower item prices resulting in both less taxes on sales brought in and less money the members have to spend on the other methods of off setting the cost of a trader.

It will cause the prices of traders to drop when no one has these insane amounts to bid anymore yes, but by then the damage to the games economy will already be done.

Sirvandal · October 2016

Players will burn there gold thru the bid system. Its temporarily and will not have ANY effect on the economie. It only effect there own pockets. And how manny players are involved? A handfull. They just end up broke (and then start complaining at the boards it needs a change).

Clearly there is a war going on between guilds at the NA server, the ones who burn out loose. There members will go to an other guild to sell. Same cash flow, different guild.

Survival of the fittest! PERFECT SYSTEM! :O)

Immortal_Dark410 · October 2016

Well I was going to post when i realized that the OP posted this thread like 2 years ago LMAO wow

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