Is Maelstrom Arena Really Not For Everyone?

anitajoneb17_ESO · October 2016

Yet another topic of "assumptions".
Depending on our habits and gameplay, we'll be with different people and have the feeling that "everyone has stormproof" or "nearly noone has it". We have no idea of the actual completion rate. Nor of the expected completion rate by ZOS.

Alucardo · October 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Hm... I'm curious then. If ZOS nerfed the content further, and managed to include a token system or vendor of sorts — would those of you not interested in clearing it go for clears then?

No. I prefer fighting real players, not robots. If I wanted to fight mindless AI creatures I'd load up Skyrim

Alanar · October 2016

This is timely for me, considering that I got Flawless Conqueror yesterday.

I would argue that Veteran Maelstrom is for everyone...who is willing to put in the work.

The first half of the work is getting to a strong end-game build, champion points, skills, gear, and knowing how to use them.

The second half of the work is learning the arena, for most players, you should expect to spend as much as 100 hours in the Arena before you've mastered it.

For my journey, I was at about 400 CP when I started the Arena, I was at almost 600 CP when I cleared it the first time, and I'm at almost 700 CP now. I died over 1000 times working on my first complete, and then got my first flawless run on my 24th attempt. This is not an arena for the feint of heart, but with work and persistence it can be done.

Marto · October 2016

Just make maelstrom weapons drop from nMA...

If the meta is going to revolve around a certain weapon, the weapon has to be obtainable by most high-end players.

Otherwise all builds are basically "I'm using this crappy staff, since I'm never going to get a maelstrom weapon"

Voxicity · October 2016

I enjoy maelstrom arena

is what i said before i got my 5th sword and shield drop in a row

***********

GreenhaloX · October 2016

ravenarc wrote: »

The very first on the list is the root of all problems so VMA is not for you if
You have 250+ because no matter how you memorized patterns because they are 1.5 sec ahead of you, e.g. inability to dodge AoE, timed blocks, & dodge rolls.

A casual gamer.

A stamina Templar.

Unless..

You're build utilizes in healing, survivability, & damage TLDR Magicka build. Stamina on the other hand is hard mode so it's recommended to have the top tier gears and tons of CP e.g. 531CP then disregard all of the above. However If the requirements are met and you're still struggling then sadly it's an L2P issue.

If you look at the many youtube clips on no death runs and how-to, majority of the toons' health are averaging around 21-22k. There are a few with health around 18k. Yet, these guys (or gals) are flying through those vMA stages and bosses and seemingly without getting damaged. Knowing the mechanics or not, you can dodge, block, roll all you want.. with so many adds and enemy DoT and AOE coming at you, you are going to get hit constantly. There is no avoiding it, and many of the adds/bosses hit freaking hard, and you're constantly vigoring yourself; throwing any kind of self-heal you have.

I'm still scratching my head. I'm way over 531 with my physical and spell resist in the mid-to upper 20k, when buffed. My health is 31k and have put in as much CP into the hardy and elemental slot as possible and getting 15% for each. I'm still getting hit and can be killed within 3 shots, if I'm not careful. My weapon (non-Maelstrom) dam is in the 3800 unbuffed and can get to 4500 when procked. I can dps. I can literally sustain at most times not losing any stamina. I have no problem with trials, vet dungeons. I solo any world boss pit and can do it without dying. Yet, I'm still getting damaged like crazy in vMA and of course dying. So, how are these guys seemingly not getting damaged going through all those stages of vMA?

Similarly, in a lot of those vet dungeon and hard mode, there are many one-shot kill stuff coming at you from the bad guys and again, a lot of the youtube clips are showing toons/players seemingly not getting damaged whatsoever from those that are normally a one-shot kill hit. Not normal to me.. I still complete normal Maelstrom easily and without dying cause the adds/mobs/bosses in normal are squishy with the level/weapon dam of my toon, yet guys are blazing through vMA like I would in normal Maelstrom. Something else is up..

Chriagon · October 2016

Wollust wrote: »

It's so incredibly easy nowadays compared to launch one year ago.

Sorry my ignorance, but when did they make vMA easier?

Nifty2g · October 2016

Chriagon wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

It's so incredibly easy nowadays compared to launch one year ago.

Sorry my ignorance, but when did they make vMA easier?

Compared to launch and now it's a joke

The power creeps, the health nerf etc, I liked vma when it came out, annoyed the hell out of me and was a good challenge

Doctordarkspawn · October 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Hm... I'm curious then. If ZOS nerfed the content further, and managed to include a token system or vendor of sorts — would those of you not interested in clearing it go for clears then?

Possibly. It depends on how hellish it is.

Ch4mpTW · October 2016

Chriagon wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

It's so incredibly easy nowadays compared to launch one year ago.

Sorry my ignorance, but when did they make vMA easier?

I'm kinda in the same boat as you. I never noticed it getting easier from a mechanics or amount damage enemies did perspective. The only sense of it becoming easier I've sensed was from the usage of Minor Slayer-based sets, and from us (we the players) being allowed to utilize more champion points. Combining those things with overall experience and knowledge of the environment, then I suppose VMA could've been made 'easier'. But then again, that's no exactly the content being made easier in regards to nerfs.

DRXHarbinger · October 2016

Chriagon wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

It's so incredibly easy nowadays compared to launch one year ago.

Sorry my ignorance, but when did they make vMA easier?

I can now tell you where everything spawns...whilst working, cooking dinner and working on my degree all at once. It's mundane, predictable and just repetition. Nothing changes at all. That's what makes it easier.

Just by listening to the audio I could tell you everything that's going on with my eyes shut. It's what vma does to you. It ruins your life.

Ch4mpTW · October 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Chriagon wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

It's so incredibly easy nowadays compared to launch one year ago.

Sorry my ignorance, but when did they make vMA easier?

I can now tell you where everything spawns...whilst working, cooking dinner and working on my degree all at once. It's mundane, predictable and just repetition. Nothing changes at all. That's what makes it easier.

Just by listening to the audio I could tell you everything that's going on with my eyes shut. It's what vma does to you. It ruins your life.

You aren't even lying, bruh. I've quit farming VMA for a few days now, and every time I hear something that remotely sounds like a portal being opened for a spawn of an enemy — I sigh and grit my teeth. I can't even do dungeons, without thinking that I'm being timed and how an add might three or four shot me if not careful. The scars run deep...

gamerguy757 · October 2016

The problem with vMA is the weapons are awful and look awful. The only good weapons are Destructo Staves, and Daggers/Axes.
Here's what the enchants SHOULD BE:

One Handed: Ransack grants your Major Resolve for 20s and does 1000 extra damage. Gain 80 Weapon Damage
Shield: When blocking a physical attack, gain Stamina and Magicka equal to 15% of the damage caused (stacks with Constitution)
Restoration Staff: This one is good, but more magic recovered would be better.

Ch4mpTW · October 2016

gamerguy757 wrote: »

The problem with vMA is the weapons are awful and look awful. The only good weapons are Destructo Staves, and Daggers/Axes.
Here's what the enchants SHOULD BE:

One Handed: Ransack grants your Major Resolve for 20s and does 1000 extra damage. Gain 80 Weapon Damage
Shield: When blocking a physical attack, gain Stamina and Magicka equal to 15% of the damage caused (stacks with Constitution)
Restoration Staff: This one is good, but more magic recovered would be better.

I still have no idea why the Maelstrom's Shield lacks its own special enchantment. I'm happy you mentioned that. I was just talking this over with my buddy on Skype the other day. Makes no sense at all. Was it implemented for aesthetics? For what reason exactly does it exist? What purpose does it truly serve?

Pallio · October 2016

It is possible with less than BiS gear and low CP etc. All it really takes is time and practice, how long are you willing to die over and over to figure it out? 1000 hrs is a very realistic investment, most people don't have time or would rather spend their time doing other things. Terrible drop rng aside, figuring it out is definitely worth it. You will absolutely be better at playing the game, situational awareness, independent survival under focus etc. Best advise on first run would be take a break when you need to, use all the signals since score doesn't matter, never give up!

Abeille · October 2016

It's for people who are determined and willing to learn, in my opinion.

Before they allowed us to log out without losing progress, I would also say it is for people who at least at first have a lot of continuous free time, but right now you can tackle one arena per day at the time if you want to.

MissBizz · October 2016

I accidently went into VMA once, didn't last long.

To me I'm perfectly fine with normal. One day would I think it's cool to complete it and get a maelstrom weapon? Definitely! I don't think my skill level is high enough yet, and I'm not hurt about that.

I think it's good they put out more difficult content once in awhile so those folks who can and do that content have something to challenge them. Meanwhile I'll keep working on 'gitting gud' and enjoy going back to old zones for quests I missed once One Tamriel comes out

[Edit] So yeah. I'm of the opinion that vma isn't for everyone. Gives folks like myself who know it isn't for us.. something to work towards.

If all the content they released was "for everyone".. welp. Content would be preeeetty easy.

MissBizz · October 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

gamerguy757 wrote: »

The problem with vMA is the weapons are awful and look awful. The only good weapons are Destructo Staves, and Daggers/Axes.
Here's what the enchants SHOULD BE:

One Handed: Ransack grants your Major Resolve for 20s and does 1000 extra damage. Gain 80 Weapon Damage
Shield: When blocking a physical attack, gain Stamina and Magicka equal to 15% of the damage caused (stacks with Constitution)
Restoration Staff: This one is good, but more magic recovered would be better.

I still have no idea why the Maelstrom's Shield lacks its own special enchantment. I'm happy you mentioned that. I was just talking this over with my buddy on Skype the other day. Makes no sense at all. Was it implemented for aesthetics? For what reason exactly does it exist? What purpose does it truly serve?

@Ch4mpTW Wrobel answered that in the Reddit ama from last week or whenever it was. Im on mobile so I can't find it right now though.

MrAppleman · October 2016

What the heck do you want them to do? Nerf it?? Yes at first it's tough but before you know it your runs go down to 1.5-1 hour and *** maybe even 40 minutes.

The players who "it's not for" don't bother learning mechanics. It's easy as crap with a little effort. I refuse to agree that content that is being completed by so many with ease should be nerfed because some people rather not put it the time everyone else has.

The arena is fine, if you want the best weapons in the game you should be able to do good damage and avoid taking damage.

AhPook_Is_Here · October 2016

I don't think as few people have completed it as you think. I also think there are lots of reasons why people don't beyond the difficulty. MMO combat systems are designed around group play and interaction with other players. Some people don't bother with it because they play MMOs to interact with other people rather than the content, cooperatively or competitively. Some people just don't want to invest the time to learn it because when they want to play a single player game they have other choices out there they'd prefer. You don't really need the weapons to be good at whatever role you undertake in co-op/competitive game play, though it isn't that they don't help. Each player must manage the utility calculation between the time investment and the reward and decide if it is worth the effort.

Have said that, it is good that hard things remain in this game, and also solo achievements remain in this game. There are enough other things to do besides this, that there is no need to fixate on it.

Wifeaggro13 · October 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

I've been noticing that there really are far and few people with Stormproof and Flawless Conqueror titles, as well as without Maelstrom weapons. The content has been out for months now, and even had a few tweaks and a 100% drop-rate added for a Maelstrom weapon to be in the last chest. And yet... There are still few people with Maelstrom clears. Let alone people who even want to be bothered with it. In fact, I know plenty of people on PS4-NA who have their buddies complete it or in a sense pay others to clear it for them. I've even been offered to do clears for people and get paid, but refused. I also noticed that on a lot of forum polls asking about people's involvement with the content, they often state how it's a waste of time. Or, how they want nothing to do with it in the slightest. Why is this?

And ZOS, are you aware of the incredibly low percentage of players with VMA clears? Let alone those who want to partake in attempting it, and or completing it? If so, that should tell you something about the content. Whether it be: Difficulty, mechanics, loot tables, and overall RNG.

not everyone enjoys the Soloist mentality ZOS enjoys

Julianos · October 2016

I have completed once for the baron polymorph and thats it its a waste of time i would farm it if it let me choose the weapon trait otherswise i wont bother with this RNG system.

Typeous · October 2016

i am cp 340 stamblade, my dps is around 18k and i am ok with that. ofc i want to see 25k-30k dps single target but it must be hard to get it. people doing that much dps with maelstrom weapons, so it have to be that hard to get it.

i never did maelstrom arena, even normal mode and i am happy with that. i will try it, probably i cant finish entire arena at my first,2nd,3rd maybe 10th try but thats the point. i dont want that thing happen too much easy. if it get easier, there is no point with high damage, high dps.

right now i am doing normal trials for vicious orphidant pieces, after i finished my gear set, i will go maelstrom for better dps. then i will go vet trials for better gears. its step by step and thats the all point of success i guess.

easy game=boring

hard goals make this game worth

sorry for english.

Bandit1215 · October 2016

Personally, I don't know how people are unable to finish a single run after months of trying. It only took my a week to finish my first full run and now I run it every week. IMO the only rEason it should take you that long is if you have under 250 cp with garbage gear.

mr_wazzabi · October 2016

ravenarc wrote: »

The very first on the list is the root of all problems so VMA is not for you if
You have 250+ because no matter how you memorized patterns because they are 1.5 sec ahead of you, e.g. inability to dodge AoE, timed blocks, & dodge rolls.

A casual gamer.

A stamina Templar.

Unless..

You're build utilizes in healing, survivability, & damage TLDR Magicka build. Stamina on the other hand is hard mode so it's recommended to have the top tier gears and tons of CP e.g. 531CP then disregard all of the above. However If the requirements are met and you're still struggling then sadly it's an L2P issue.

Stamina that's not stamsorc is hard mode. Stam sorc is easy mode. Even easier than mageblade.

Qbiken · October 2016

Alanar wrote: »

This is timely for me, considering that I got Flawless Conqueror yesterday.

I would argue that Veteran Maelstrom is for everyone...who is willing to put in the work.

The first half of the work is getting to a strong end-game build, champion points, skills, gear, and knowing how to use them.

The second half of the work is learning the arena, for most players, you should expect to spend as much as 100 hours in the Arena before you've mastered it.

For my journey, I was at about 400 CP when I started the Arena, I was at almost 600 CP when I cleared it the first time, and I'm at almost 700 CP now. I died over 1000 times working on my first complete, and then got my first flawless run on my 24th attempt. This is not an arena for the feint of heart, but with work and persistence it can be done.

This ^

Thornen · October 2016

Wollust wrote: »

I don't understand how people can still complain about maelstrom. It's so incredibly easy nowadays compared to launch one year ago.

Agree the only issue with maelstrom is having to run it 1000 times to get the weapons you want in the trait you want.

Totalitarian · October 2016

Now that I've nearly maxed out a DPS templar, I should finish vMA.

I need to rerun nMA like 5 times to relearn the spawn points though.

alexkdd99 · October 2016

Marto wrote: »

Just make maelstrom weapons drop from nMA...

If the meta is going to revolve around a certain weapon, the weapon has to be obtainable by most high-end players.

Otherwise all builds are basically "I'm using this crappy staff, since I'm never going to get a maelstrom weapon"

If you are "high end" player whatever that means, you should be able to beat vma. When I did normal I thought how could anyone think this arena is hard.

But normal was absolutely no indication of how hard vet would be. I flew through normal like it was a public dungeon. Eventually as people have pointed out everyone will be able to complete vma as the champion point cap continue to rise.

I thought people were full of bs when they said vma gets a ton easier after your first clear, but it is true. I honestly don't understand how it is so so so much easier now.

Just push through and you will see for yourself how easy vma becomes.

olsborg · October 2016

vMA is all about what I dont like about pve:

Timed pressure to perform X action so a guaranteed death wont happen. Nothing to enjoy about it. I can enjoy certain aspects of pve, but im a pvper at heart in eso. Something about having that stress lingering above your head, "remember to do X at Y so you dont get instadead" feels like being at work instead of enjoying an hour or two at gaming.