BoP in One Tam - will it help stop the Guild Cartel

altemriel · September 2016

Lumbermill_Emperor wrote: »

Sunver wrote: »

LOL. So many socialists here...

Someone is too rich, lets make some regulations to make them as poor as everyone else, who don't have the nerve or stamina to earn big like them!

This is everything but fair people.

What would have happened if someone said to you:
This car of yours its 100k$, right? Well you see, I have only 5k$ car so lets sell mine and yours and buy two 52,5k$ cars for both of us, alright? It's unfair that you are rich and I am poor.

Hilarious, right? But that's exactly what you are proposing by "merchant rotation" or "ZOS do something".

You want to punish people for being good entrepreneurs and taking their chance when everyone else went with their mediocre income just fine out of laziness or fear to loose time/money. And now the whines and QQ's... for crying out loud, stop.

agreed under every word
poor noobs in eso already got me

I have to agree now too

AzuraKin · September 2016

KingMagaw wrote: »

If anything mate, the actions your seeing will be increased after 1T, not reduced as Zo$ will take away vet players earning money from selling gold trial gear.
I am PC EU and mainly seeing the currency of gold upgrading tempers being manipulated. Not only that but i have talked to a few players who know specifically who is buying what/when/how much for. There are guilds specifically buying the market out on these as well as a few players who think they can make profit when 1T hits.

As for guild traders blocking spots, this will also become more frequent as guilds will boil down to only a few trading ones worth being in because of the trader spot.

In my opinion these actions will simply push more into doing the mind numbing writs over multiple characters per day to get the gold tempers. I think its extremely hard for a new player now in ESO to be competitive, its basically 100k to upgrade any metal piece to gold. 300k for DW and 2H, never mind Golding the armors ))

bop will probably have the biggest impact on solo players. think it will be more about getting a group of 4-24 player to grind an area for gear. depending on how drops of new sets work may possibly allow for guilds locking down areas of desireable item drops. i pray this dont happen.

altemriel wrote: »

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

As we are experiencing (on the EU server at least) right now, there is a large Guild Cartel, acting in some ways like an in-game Mafia, taking over and trying to manipulate the game economy.

They don't even try to hide this as you will now see about 15 to 20 of these guilds have even started wearing the same tabbard. (check out Belkarth, Rawlka, Mournhold, Grahtwood and look at the tabbards)

The infamous SkyBlobber (no real names here so no name and shame...and hopefully no one else has picked the name SkyBlobber) robber baron or "The Don" has even gone about buying up certain types of mats so can then fix/manipulate the price for them.

They have also set up "dummy" Guilds with little or nothing to sell just so they can bid for traders and prevent others who are not in the cartel from getting a spot.

I am not fully sure of the ZoS terms of service, but i am sure these "so called" trading practices go against them and those doing this should be banned (ban hammer in-coming).

There are still guilds who have not been strong-armed into joining the Cartel and "paying the protection money" but they are finding it harder and harder to find a guild trader to hire.

It is my hope that with sets becoming BoP and the updated writs providing more mats, the Cartel will become starved of money.

I know BoP will hit other players too (PvE raiders for example, but at least they will be compensated a bit by the high value items they can sell to vendors to offset the cost of potions) and is frowned upon by large parts of the gaming community, but we seriously cannot continue with this current Guild System that allows such practices.

*phew* spleen vented...you see what happens to me when maintenance goes on too long

I am not sure if I understand what you mean by the cartel mafia practices and dumping the prices (maybe because I am not english native), but my english is quite good, so please explain the theory behind it more.

What do these cartel guilds do? They buy all the mats and then sell them for higher prices? Or what?
Will then the other guilds who still sell the mats for lower prices make even more profit by that?
Or do you mean that the cartel guilds sell the mats for lower prices than usual? That would be good in my opinion.

And about trader bids, that the billionaires buy out all the trader spots, that is pretty bad, but I have no idea how to solve that.

I wrote that many months before, that this game allows the people to become insanely rich, but I am not sure if it is bad or good.
I have just basic knowledge of the economy theory. Maybe there should be a cap (a few millions) that how max gold can one account accumulate.

here is the underlying problem. 1. a completely unregulated economy allows for guilds (usually oriental) to control the economy by selling items at x value and buying up any stock below y% of that value and reselling at x. 2. a fully regulated economy kills player interaction, leaves gold income to the whim of zos. the only way zos could do to elleviate prices would be to return chance at gold upgrade mats via mail back to what it was originally. it is when zos changed the drop rate from mails that the cost of gold upgrade particularly blacksmithing went through roof (from 3k b/s, 2.5k clothing 2k wood to 6k+ b/s, 5k + clothing 4k+ wood)

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

I find these topics hilarious/sad. I run a trading guild on NA PC, probably a sort of mid range guild. I do not tell people how to price their goods, or interfere in any way with anyones trading. If goods are selling for x amount, it is not because there is any conspiracy to force people to sell at x amount, it's because people have worked out for themselves that they can get x amount for that/those item(s). And people are buying them for x amount.

Put away the tin foil hats!

I think you forget most traders use an Addon to decide the price, so if you can get the most popular spots selling for the same sort of price it's incredibly easy to manipulate the Price.
You never need to tell people to sell at a certain price, because most will sell close or just below the normal price in the guild, if anyone goes well below, someone in the guild buys and puts straight back up for the Price they want it manipulated to.

It's not difficult and more or less any fool can do it if they have the gold. with 4 accounts you can belong to the guilds in the 20 most popular locations and do this solo if you want.

AzuraKin · September 2016

most people cannot afford 4 accounts let alone who would want to.

AzuraKin · September 2016

strikeback1247 wrote: »

Buying tempers when there is a low demand and selling them when prices skyrocket is a common smart investment strategy. It's basic economics and I see nothing wrong with that. Only when a guild can create a monopoly on an item, that's when things start to go bad, but freshly farmed items are pumped into the economy every day. No-one has enough gold to buy all the mats in the game and all the new farmed ones every day.

actually there is a problem, back in the day you could count on a gold upgrade mat every 3-5 mails. at this time regardless of new gear releasing the price of gold upgrade mats was fairly consistent, 2-3k. then zos pretty much made it impossible to get gold upgrade mats (i get one every couple months all 3 types combined) from mails they added writs but where the fun in writs? if i was to do writs on 8 characters i would spend all my play time doing nothing but writs and the drop rate of gold mats is maybe 2-3x that of what mail is. that drove prices up. merchanters used that as an excuse to raise prices from 2-3k to 4-6k. and now merchanters are trying to raise prices again. trust me the odds of temp alloy dropping down is nearly 0. all you will ever see is the price continue to soar. sad to say, the only people who can afford to gold gear, is those who dont do crafting for a living. (motiff pricing is another thing that zos *** the game up with they should never have broken motiff books into pages. worst *** idea ever.) only way you will see a return of tempering alloy to a decent price point would be to increase the chance to aquire gold upgrade mats. personally i say since it takes 72 - 88 gold mats to upgrade gear to gold per character, and zos apparently deciding to push new content with new gear every 3 months (90 days), i say a character should have a 20% chance to get a gold mat per mail this would mean that a character should be able to gold out a complete set of gear in 6 months. this would allow players to gold out new gear every 6 months. this would return gold mats back to to 2-3k per gold mat. and deter merchanting as the stock of gold upgrade mats being higher means people would be less likely to pay 8-9k as current pricing on tempers is at.

bertenburnyb16_ESO · September 2016

AzuraKin · September 2016

Legedric wrote: »

This thread is kinda amusing to me being a very active trader on PC EU and being in 4 trade guilds with major spots in Belkrath (top trade spot in EU) and some faction Undaunted areas.

You do know there is actually still (for over a year now?) a "war" going on between at least two of the largest trade guilds on PC EU competing over trader spots, spying, ruining each others reputation etc.? So they barely communicate with each other and of course would never work together for any reason.

You do know many of the top trading guilds in EU (like TTG, AT, TTM) do not belong to any larger alliance at all and don't care about other's prices at all from a pure guild view?

You do know that the largest trading guild alliance (the one you are calling a cartel here) on EU (called UTE, containing like ~15 guilds) is just there to protect itself against spot-stealing and not to manipulate prices in the first place?
Yes, they are controling like 100% of Rawl'kha (2nd best trade spot on PC EU), but they usually only have 1 trade spot (Just Traders) in Craglorn and the rest is spread out over the 3 Undaunted areas, starting zones and Tamriel in general.
I think the largest of these guilds is Just Traders and that one is even "small" (like ~50% of the total sales only) compared to the other three independent guilds I mentioned above.
Some of them are not even worth mentioning as they hardly get 10 new listings a day up to their trader... so way too many small unworthy guilds in there to call it a conspiracy or cartel if you ask me...

In addition here are still plenty of large trading guilds (Harrods, DTG, PVT and some more) that do not belong to UTE in any way, including the 3 major trade guilds mentioned above.

Side Note: If your made up name is referring to the leader of one of the major trade guilds (having "blob" in his name), you should know that especially his guild and himself as a person has no (friendly) relationship to UTE.

Of course some traders (not whole guilds) like myself buy the current alloys etc. for cheap prices to sell them for a higher price after One Tamriel raised the demand for it due to the amount of new sets coming into the game.

Do I feel bad about this? No!
That's how an economy works and to be honset, my moral limit for drying out a market, an opposing trade guild or whatever for a certain product in a game's ecenomy is near zero. It's just pixels. I don't care if someone won't be able to afford a 20k Tempering Alloy after One Tamriel. It's not like I am speculating on food prices in the real world (just to make a comparison here).

But that's nothing what my trade guild is telling me to do, that's my very own decision and I never heard of any of the large trade guilds to tell their people to drive up prices for a certain good etc. I mean, imagine you want to control 500 individuals to do something... it hardly works with 50 people

Most of the traders that try to manipulate or even monopolize a certain market (for example for a flower type) are just individuals and ZOS is not able to prevent this by any technical measures.
Not even a global AH would solve this as I would still be able to buy every Alloy up to a certain limit and raise the prices if my wallet allows me to.

So to answer the original question from my view: No, it won't change anything. The trial sets will just get replaced by some other (open world) sets now and the active traders will still be able to easily earn mony out of others needs or (even better with hgher margin) our of others stupidity.

i have seen people like you in other games and buying at low price to inflate price to make profit actually does multiple things. one it makes it harder for new players to aquire the items, it actually decreases everyones worth. (you may make 3k of the item but when new sets comes out you need to gold the new set you gonna pay guess what the new price you inflated it to. inflating the price of tempering alloy is the same as raising minimum wage, it doesnt do any good only harm to everyone. short sited people buy items then inflate price to sell for profit. they have no real idea of how economies work. just cause some idiot on wall street does it doesnt mean that its good and right or lacking in harm. in fact i would go so far to say that if you buy and resell items for profit you are a moron and an idiot because you have no clue what the detriments of your actions are.

and as for caring about whether a new person can afford something: let me say this, new players are the lifeblood of any mmo no matter how long the mmo has been around. when a mmo cannot draw in new players, the mmo player base dwindles, and when it dwindles the developers spend less on content which means fewer new player join and more current players leave. so your shortsited profiteering hurts the continuation of the games future by disenfranching new players from continueing to play. an example how how monopolization hurts games is one of the first mmo's forget which one now, used to have certain bosses zerged by guilds so that no one else but them got drops unless they paid the guild a fee to get loot from boss. that game was driven out of business when another mmo came out that instanced its content preventing monopolization of a boss. we seen a similarity to this at start of eso and zos rightly has implemented changes to prevent the monopolization of bosses. Monopolizing is hurtful to all. you talk about how the economy works, but you ignore the fact that an economy that is based on monopolization hurts everyone including the monopolizing force.

I_killed_Vivec · September 2016

The discussion seems to have moved away (in fact did almost immediately) from the effect the BoP will have to guilds in general.

I'm sure that ZoS love guilds. Think of the intrigue... spying... bidding, under-bidding, over-bidding. Just think about the sheer involvement! Guilds, in terms of getting people playing the trading game, are a fantastic success!

BoP is another matter. I still do Wrothgar dailies (I want some CP160 Briarheart jewellery that isn't arcane) and I still feel bad about vendor trashing the BoP drops that aren't what I want - they aren't even worth deconstructing. More BoP will kill off a lot of trade, it's just a gold sink.

KingYogi415 · September 2016

This is now a Nerf #magicsorc thread.

Enjoy!

acw37162 · September 2016

With fewer high dollar items

People who have market control will just exploit other markets. ZOS is belong in this regard in particular with tempers.

benjamino613 · September 2016

no one blames wallmart or [insert superstore here] for being as big as they are. I thought we like our games especially rpgs to reflect the nuances of real life.

And im not one of these eso super sellers at all, just dont see how its fair to complain about business minded people using their brains to achieve there goal. And controling the market is codswallop. There will ALWAYS be people not in these guilds who want to sell their stuff.

Just my two gold.

grom1024 · September 2016

I think the current guild traders should be abolished. They are just a barrier between seller and buyer.

It is difficult to find what you want and it is difficult to sell niche items. Only most popular items could be sold, and they are slow to be sold. The problem is that buying requires checking too many places this is very easy, but very long and boring activity even with addons. About 3 months ago I just almost stopped buying from anyone but from guilds I'm in, only if I could not find think I want for few days.

Buying from player experience in the game is boring, tedious, and time-wasting. Worst trade system I have seen ever. Even in real world, small shops try to register themselves on bigger catalogs, so buying could be done from central place (aliexpress, for example, but there are a lot of others on net). In game, there is some small shop system, that splits player-to-player economy to boring small partitions. Just travelling between traders takes so long, that sometimes makes it faster just to farm needed mats. Public auction house would have solved the problem.

Dubhliam · September 2016

@AzuraKin you are talking nonsense.

You do realize that when a person buys mats at low prices "to sell them for higher", those low price sales also get registered by the MM addon?

Every player is in the exact same starting position.
Materials are available for farm to everyone in equal amounts.
Anyone can earn gold in the game in many variety of ways.

In the end, if you believe some items have high prices, simply go farm for those items yourself.
Or is your tush too royal to do some actual work?

Supply and demand.
Learn it or...
...come to the forums and whine.

AzuraKin · September 2016

Dubhliam wrote: »

@AzuraKin you are talking nonsense.

You do realize that when a person buys mats at low prices "to sell them for higher", those low price sales also get registered by the MM addon?

Every player is in the exact same starting position.
Materials are available for farm to everyone in equal amounts.
Anyone can earn gold in the game in many variety of ways.

In the end, if you believe some items have high prices, simply go farm for those items yourself.
Or is your tush too royal to do some actual work?

Supply and demand.
Learn it or...
...come to the forums and whine.

dude 1. your argument isnt even touching any of the points i made, 2. you argue on points i never even brought up in an attempt to counter my arguments. 3. you obviously know nothing of supply and demand because using wall street as an example, a person buying person x's supply of gold for 50 usd per pound then turning around very same market and selling it for 75 usd per pound is not supply and demand. supply and demand is: i mine 50 pounds of gold, i sell it to the refinery at 10 usd per poiund of ore. the refinery refines the ore into 40 pounds of refined gold ingots. it cost the refinery 5 usd per poiund of gold ore to refine into the ingots. the refinery needs to make 10% profit so it sells ingots for 20.625 usd per ingot to manufacturers around the world. the manufacturers in turn craft various items. that is supply and demand, i have an item i sell to those who need it who in turn make something with it. supply and demand has nothing to do with buying an item and reselling it.

Lumbermill_Emperor · October 2016

@AzuraKin
relax dude
it will always be whiners like you, who cant re-sell items
and pro-sellers like me, who can achieve 5mil gold/week just by reselling stuff

its a pit between rich and poor
and its always be the same
you can cry, you can scream, but you will be behind

AzuraKin · October 2016

keep telling yourself that dude, but the whole point is you are a short-sited greedy little dude. ask yourself this why is the american economy so bad? why have so many countries gone bankrupt these last few years? because of the same shenanigans you are doing, people buy all the low price items to resell at a higher price to make profit by doing nothing. all you do is hurt other people.

AzuraKin · October 2016

oh and other points:

1. i dont resell items because i not a cruel-hearted greedy ***.

2. and if you buyign and reselling to try to make 5m a week, that just shows you are a greedy sob because there is no need for 5m every week. maybe 5m after they create a new gear lvl.

Lumbermill_Emperor · October 2016

Its because im playing in different game, economy game in ESO
but you cannot understand because you didnt enjoy it

clocksstoppe · October 2016

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I don't buy from red bibs. No one should.

altemriel wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I don't buy from red bibs. No one should.

what do you mean by "red bibs"?

A red tabard with a skull and crossed daggers on the front. You will notice on EU that it's around 80% of the trading guilds in the popular locations.

ok, I will check that out in the game.

And could you please elaborate more about which mafia cartel practices they do?

I'm not calling them a mafia or a cartel. Just simply saying that buying from one of these guilds is potentially giving them even more gold to buy out another traditional guild, which eventually will lead to someone owning all the trading guild locations and fixed pricing. It could even ruin the entire game, who knows? I'll continue to buy from independents and be happier doing so. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if someone at the top of this chain was a gold seller. Why else would you need that much in game currency, why so greedy?

Why should your "traditional guild" have the privilege of owning guild merchants?

Valencer · October 2016

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

but you know, that skyblobber is an opponent of those that wear the same tabbard?
cos you sound like those 2 would be the same

i made up the name "skyblobber" as i was not going to name and shame...if you are saying there is a real skyblobber then i immediately change the name again so as not to offend (break the TOS)

let me just refer back to an earlier response that called them "red bibs" i think it was...so if you actually know of an "opponent" to this then you are fully aware that a cartel exists and you prove my point

the "opponent" as you call him might also be involved in some nefarious (i always wanted to use that word in a sentence) trading practices. oh hang on, i want to use the word nefarious again.

btw - thx to everyone who responded (good, bad, happy, sad) it's amazing what turns up when you log off for a while. anyway, i can go and play the game now.

I think youre just very confused to be honest. The "cartel" youre talking about is an alliance of (often smaller) trading guilds that were fed up with getting pushed around by this "skyblobber" guy and his big trading guild.

Xandryah · October 2016

prices have never really moved at all ever since launch, there is no real market... players have always tried to sell white stuff giving only 1 or 5 or 10 gold reductions... so, it's not very different now, imo... let alone yellow stuff...

you can still have pve-fun with stuff that you get rather at normal conditions...

but, you still don't have fun with pve/pvp-endgame-content... this seems to be restricted to 5% of player's population only, imo...

alexkdd99 · October 2016

Cryptical wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I don't buy from red bibs. No one should.

altemriel wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I don't buy from red bibs. No one should.

what do you mean by "red bibs"?

A red tabard with a skull and crossed daggers on the front. You will notice on EU that it's around 80% of the trading guilds in the popular locations.

ok, I will check that out in the game.

And could you please elaborate more about which mafia cartel practices they do?

Did you read the post? Shutting others out of the market, by propping up a dummy guild to take up more of the limited space, is predatory capitalism at its worst.

Imagine Starbucks going around buying up the locations around town to shut out competition from Dunkin Donuts and McDonald's and Taco Bell etc, so that your ONLY option is their overpriced products.

The people who mindlessly parrot 'supply and demand bruh' as if the words are a protection from market manipulation have not given consideration to how it stops being a 'free' market when competitors are not able to get a spot in the marketplace.

This is why I say the one surest method of returning integrity to the marketplace is a public trader available to all. And, likely making things bought from a trader BoP to quell reselling.

So basically you want to take away a good size chunk of this game. Some people enjoy looking for deals to resell items, and you want to take that away by making bought items bop.

If people was unable to join guilds with traders then your theory might hold water. But someone has already stated there is open slot in his guild and asked if you would like an invite. That is your choice to stay in a guild that can't keep a trader.

Supply and demand definitely apply here. If people were not buying the mats at the price they are being sold the price would go down. So effectively the buyers are bumping the price up as they continue to purchase upgrade mats at higher prices.

The sellers would lower the cost if people were not buying their products.

Cryptical · October 2016

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I don't buy from red bibs. No one should.

altemriel wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I don't buy from red bibs. No one should.

what do you mean by "red bibs"?

A red tabard with a skull and crossed daggers on the front. You will notice on EU that it's around 80% of the trading guilds in the popular locations.

ok, I will check that out in the game.

And could you please elaborate more about which mafia cartel practices they do?

Did you read the post? Shutting others out of the market, by propping up a dummy guild to take up more of the limited space, is predatory capitalism at its worst.

Imagine Starbucks going around buying up the locations around town to shut out competition from Dunkin Donuts and McDonald's and Taco Bell etc, so that your ONLY option is their overpriced products.

The people who mindlessly parrot 'supply and demand bruh' as if the words are a protection from market manipulation have not given consideration to how it stops being a 'free' market when competitors are not able to get a spot in the marketplace.

This is why I say the one surest method of returning integrity to the marketplace is a public trader available to all. And, likely making things bought from a trader BoP to quell reselling.

So basically you want to take away a good size chunk of this game. Some people enjoy looking for deals to resell items, and you want to take that away by making bought items bop.

If people was unable to join guilds with traders then your theory might hold water. But someone has already stated there is open slot in his guild and asked if you would like an invite. That is your choice to stay in a guild that can't keep a trader.

Supply and demand definitely apply here. If people were not buying the mats at the price they are being sold the price would go down. So effectively the buyers are bumping the price up as they continue to purchase upgrade mats at higher prices.

The sellers would lower the cost if people were not buying their products.

I'm fine with making stuff bought from traders bound, because the game is about fight and fantasy, not economic tycoon. Your 'join a guild' angle is bull shite, because guilds have a maximum membership and therefore there is a maximum number of people that can possibly sell through a trader. A FREE market is accessible to all, not just the people who got lucky enough to grab one of the limited number of slots.

Lumbermill_Emperor · October 2016

as soon as any of ideas like ^ this will be implemented - the game will become dead

Darkonflare15 · October 2016

I just glad I do not have play the market game in order to make money anymore. In most other games I had to, just to get to places. You had to in this game in the beginning but now there are plenty of ways to make money without having deal with trading. I have been able to make money and still be able to afford the prices in the guild stores and I like idea that if I cannot afford an item then I can choose to get it myself or just find a cheaper price for it.

NoMoreChillies · October 2016

guild cartel?
i forgot my tin foil hat...

alexkdd99 · October 2016

Cryptical wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I don't buy from red bibs. No one should.

altemriel wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I don't buy from red bibs. No one should.

what do you mean by "red bibs"?

A red tabard with a skull and crossed daggers on the front. You will notice on EU that it's around 80% of the trading guilds in the popular locations.

ok, I will check that out in the game.

And could you please elaborate more about which mafia cartel practices they do?

Did you read the post? Shutting others out of the market, by propping up a dummy guild to take up more of the limited space, is predatory capitalism at its worst.

Imagine Starbucks going around buying up the locations around town to shut out competition from Dunkin Donuts and McDonald's and Taco Bell etc, so that your ONLY option is their overpriced products.

The people who mindlessly parrot 'supply and demand bruh' as if the words are a protection from market manipulation have not given consideration to how it stops being a 'free' market when competitors are not able to get a spot in the marketplace.

This is why I say the one surest method of returning integrity to the marketplace is a public trader available to all. And, likely making things bought from a trader BoP to quell reselling.

So basically you want to take away a good size chunk of this game. Some people enjoy looking for deals to resell items, and you want to take that away by making bought items bop.

If people was unable to join guilds with traders then your theory might hold water. But someone has already stated there is open slot in his guild and asked if you would like an invite. That is your choice to stay in a guild that can't keep a trader.

Supply and demand definitely apply here. If people were not buying the mats at the price they are being sold the price would go down. So effectively the buyers are bumping the price up as they continue to purchase upgrade mats at higher prices.

The sellers would lower the cost if people were not buying their products.

I'm fine with making stuff bought from traders bound, because the game is about fight and fantasy, not economic tycoon. Your 'join a guild' angle is bull shite, because guilds have a maximum membership and therefore there is a maximum number of people that can possibly sell through a trader. A FREE market is accessible to all, not just the people who got lucky enough to grab one of the limited number of slots.

In every guild I am in there is open slots. People who claim to try and join trade guilds are either telling lies or don't want to pay the weekly fee.

And last I remember they said PLAY AS YOU WANT. Not only fight and fantasy. The game is not called fight and fantasy tycoon so can we stop acting like others call it economic tycoon.

The market is accessible to all who put the effort into joining the market.

Whoever told you it was free to open and run a business irl told you some lies, the same applies here. This game is actually closer to a real world market than most games I have played.

There are only so many stalls in a mall for people to sell things but their are other malls that may not be in a prime location.

There is a reason that some traders out by themselves are normally nearly empty. Because they are not a FULL guild. There is a spot for someone to sell stuff providing they really want to.

Cryptical · October 2016

alexkdd99 wrote: »

And last I remember they said PLAY AS YOU WANT. Not only fight and fantasy. The game is not called fight and fantasy tycoon so can we stop acting like others call it economic tycoon.

This always makes me laugh.

Play with what they provided, however you want.

Here's a basketball, you play however you want. Oh, you want to play with a baseball bat? Fine, play as you want, but I'm not obligated to modify the basketball I handed you into something smaller and harder to accommodate you. I made a basketball, you bought the basketball, if you can't handle that then what are you expecting?

Zeni made a hack and slash and magic and dungeons game. With guild traders tacked on so people could find their own way around swapping stuff with each other. Those traders are secondary to the game they are providing, as evidenced by how many things are bind on equip and pickup, and on how that list of BoP/BoE is growing.

You play how you want. Just be aware this isn't Elder Merchant Tycoon Online, so they aren't obligated to fulfil your desire to have tons of gold nor to cater to your moneymaker play style.

strikeback1247 · October 2016

Cryptical wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

And last I remember they said PLAY AS YOU WANT. Not only fight and fantasy. The game is not called fight and fantasy tycoon so can we stop acting like others call it economic tycoon.

This always makes me laugh.

Play with what they provided, however you want.

Here's a basketball, you play however you want. Oh, you want to play with a baseball bat? Fine, play as you want, but I'm not obligated to modify the basketball I handed you into something smaller and harder to accommodate you. I made a basketball, you bought the basketball, if you can't handle that then what are you expecting?

Zeni made a hack and slash and magic and dungeons game. With guild traders tacked on so people could find their own way around swapping stuff with each other. Those traders are secondary to the game they are providing, as evidenced by how many things are bind on equip and pickup, and on how that list of BoP/BoE is growing.

You play how you want. Just be aware this isn't Elder Merchant Tycoon Online, so they aren't obligated to fulfil your desire to have tons of gold nor to cater to your moneymaker play style.

It seems to me that he is completely fine with what zos has given him. You are the one that wants to change the game to accomodate for your playstyle. Zos isn't obligated to cater to your ideas of the economy.

Cryptical · October 2016

strikeback1247 wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

And last I remember they said PLAY AS YOU WANT. Not only fight and fantasy. The game is not called fight and fantasy tycoon so can we stop acting like others call it economic tycoon.

This always makes me laugh.

Play with what they provided, however you want.

Here's a basketball, you play however you want. Oh, you want to play with a baseball bat? Fine, play as you want, but I'm not obligated to modify the basketball I handed you into something smaller and harder to accommodate you. I made a basketball, you bought the basketball, if you can't handle that then what are you expecting?

Zeni made a hack and slash and magic and dungeons game. With guild traders tacked on so people could find their own way around swapping stuff with each other. Those traders are secondary to the game they are providing, as evidenced by how many things are bind on equip and pickup, and on how that list of BoP/BoE is growing.

You play how you want. Just be aware this isn't Elder Merchant Tycoon Online, so they aren't obligated to fulfil your desire to have tons of gold nor to cater to your moneymaker play style.

It seems to me that he is completely fine with what zos has given him. You are the one that wants to change the game to accomodate for your playstyle. Zos isn't obligated to cater to your ideas of the economy.

He appears to dislike the idea of Zeni making things BoP. That looks to me like he isn't completely fine with the BoP that is coming that will encourage people to play the basketball that Zeni made rather than kludge it into a game of baseball.

stevepdodson_ESO888 · October 2016

Valencer wrote: »

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

but you know, that skyblobber is an opponent of those that wear the same tabbard?
cos you sound like those 2 would be the same

i made up the name "skyblobber" as i was not going to name and shame...if you are saying there is a real skyblobber then i immediately change the name again so as not to offend (break the TOS)

let me just refer back to an earlier response that called them "red bibs" i think it was...so if you actually know of an "opponent" to this then you are fully aware that a cartel exists and you prove my point

the "opponent" as you call him might also be involved in some nefarious (i always wanted to use that word in a sentence) trading practices. oh hang on, i want to use the word nefarious again.

btw - thx to everyone who responded (good, bad, happy, sad) it's amazing what turns up when you log off for a while. anyway, i can go and play the game now.

I think youre just very confused to be honest. The "cartel" youre talking about is an alliance of (often smaller) trading guilds that were fed up with getting pushed around by this "skyblobber" guy and his big trading guild.

thank you for your response to this...if this is the case and, as you say, i have made a mistake or am confused in how i have viewed things then i will be the first to hold my hand up and accept that i am wrong.