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BoP in One Tam - will it help stop the Guild Cartel
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WillhelmBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WillhelmBlack wrote: »I don't buy from red bibs. No one should.
A red tabard with a skull and crossed daggers on the front. You will notice on EU that it's around 80% of the trading guilds in the popular locations.
ok, I will check that out in the game.
And could you please elaborate more about which mafia cartel practices they do?
I'm not calling them a mafia or a cartel. Just simply saying that buying from one of these guilds is potentially giving them even more gold to buy out another traditional guild, which eventually will lead to someone owning all the trading guild locations and fixed pricing. It could even ruin the entire game, who knows? I'll continue to buy from independents and be happier doing so. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if someone at the top of this chain was a gold seller. Why else would you need that much in game currency, why so greedy?Edited by WillhelmBlack on September 28, 2016 1:09PMPC EU1 -
altemriel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WillhelmBlack wrote: »WillhelmBlack wrote: »I don't buy from red bibs. No one should.
A red tabard with a skull and crossed daggers on the front. You will notice on EU that it's around 80% of the trading guilds in the popular locations.
ok, I will check that out in the game.
And could you please elaborate more about which mafia cartel practices they do?
I'm not calling them a mafia or a cartel. Just simply saying that buying from one of these guilds is potentially giving them even more gold to buy out another traditional guild, which eventually will lead to someone owning all the trading guild locations and fixed pricing. It could even ruin the entire game, who knows? I'll continue to buy from independents and be happier doing so. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if someone at the top of this chain was a gold seller.
that idea sounds bad, hopefuly this will never happen.0 -
Lumbermill_Emperor✭✭✭✭all i see its conspiracy
tin foiled people
and conspiracy again
without any proofs3 -
VoiDGhOs7✭✭✭✭Lumbermill_Emperor wrote: »there is dosen topics same like this
creaated by noobs time to time
people cant farm gold or dont know how to do it
and they see they cannot afford store prices
and they come to the forum and whine about conspiracy and manipulation lol
always the same
i saw at least 5 topics about it in past year
If you don't know what you're talking about then just stop replying with inflammatory content trying to trigger ppl.
Indeed there some players on EU PC who tried to push prices for gold mats/flowers over top making them reaching insane prices and altough I don't think there's a Guild Cartel there's some players who tried or still trying to push prices for the most requested things aka pots and gold mats.At the moment the prices seems to be stable but who knows how the prices are going to change when OT goes live.1 -
Grabmoore✭✭✭✭✭You should investigate why those guilds formed an alliance first, OP.... They were the ones fighting a dictator parasite guild of a player who exploited his gold!EU - PC - Ebonheart Pact
Iggy Grabmoore - Argonian Magicka Templar | Nyctasha - Redguard Stamina Nightblade
Do-Ra'Zhar - Khajiit Stamina DK | Ashmedi - Dunmer Magicka DK
Vanya Darchow - AD Altmer Magicka Sorc | Malek gro'Kash - Orc Stam Sorc
GM of "Handelshaus von Riften" - Trading & PvX Community5 -
nine9six✭✭✭✭✭
✭Guild Traders suck.Wake up, we're here. Why are you shaking? Are you ok? Wake up...1 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WTF? I know guy that knows guy who heard that his friend knows someone who manipulate prices. Dude, im playing mmos for years and yeah its common but it can be done only on these items that are very very hard to obtain by your self. Tempers are impossible to manipulate as EVERYONE can farm and sell them for prices they want and in amount they want. Through last week ive farmed almost 20 kutas, ~30 dreugh waxes, 15 tempers, 10 rosins + thousands of ruby ingots, lether and anc silk. Who is stoping you from doing the same? Just get out there and farm if you want to make money. I have more than I need and no, I wont give it to anybody xDSay no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge5 -
Cherryblossom✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lumbermill_Emperor wrote: »@Cherryblossom only noobs taking an addon price as price for listing an item
every good trader know he need also to check stores around store he want to list it
and choose lowest price among listed items
and if your items will be sold after that - its good result for a seller
if buyer with tinfoil on the head thinking all prices in guild store is a result of manipulation - he can try to buy in /zone
You confirm my quote then, I agree the price check is a guide line, I said you only need join the guilds in most popular areas.
So you totally agree it's possible to manipulate an items price. Thanks
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Cryptical✭✭✭✭✭
✭In other threads I have given links to posts on reddit and other places, which were price manipulation.
People talking about a typo in the guild price list, for example, commenting that it appeared a zero was left off of a provisioning mat in the guild's list of sell prices.
Just go to google. It's all there, in a Google search.Xbox NA1 -
Cherryblossom✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cherryblossom wrote: »I find these topics hilarious/sad. I run a trading guild on NA PC, probably a sort of mid range guild. I do not tell people how to price their goods, or interfere in any way with anyones trading. If goods are selling for x amount, it is not because there is any conspiracy to force people to sell at x amount, it's because people have worked out for themselves that they can get x amount for that/those item(s). And people are buying them for x amount.
Put away the tin foil hats!
I think you forget most traders use an Addon to decide the price, so if you can get the most popular spots selling for the same sort of price it's incredibly easy to manipulate the Price.
You never need to tell people to sell at a certain price, because most will sell close or just below the normal price in the guild, if anyone goes well below, someone in the guild buys and puts straight back up for the Price they want it manipulated to.
It's not difficult and more or less any fool can do it if they have the gold. with 4 accounts you can belong to the guilds in the 20 most popular locations and do this solo if you want.
aha, good point...
I remember now, someone writting about this elsewhere here.
hmm, but is it really true that someone can manipulate prices so easily, when so many players play the game? would it not require many hundrets of player conspiring in this activity and many hundrets of transactions to really have impact on the average price - shown then in the addon?
Not really it can be done very easily when its a really popular item as people will sell close to the normal figure currently in their guild, people are lazy and will go a little bit under as it just saves them time.
I checked it once with Soulshine Rings, average price was about 500g I went around and bought all in the main Hubs then put them up in 4 of the guilds I belonged to for 2k ish, they all sold and people started following the trend of around 2k for a while.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@stevepdodson_ESO888
So Steve, my main is SkyBlobbee and I would like to know what your accusing me of.
What delusional idea are we discussing? A guild cartel? Lol. Any MMO people buy stuff listed for cheap and resell it. It's normal and certainly no colusion amongst guilds. Lmao.0 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭OP is right about the Cartel thing though he overdramatizes it. I know of 3 ToP NA trade guilds that work together to control Mournhold, Wayrest, and Reaper's March. The BoP change won't change anything . The only thing the BoP change does is snub Endgame players. Trade guilds were doing the same thing before trials were updated.Edited by timidobserver on September 28, 2016 2:07PMV16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)1 -
Cherryblossom✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Did you read the post? Shutting others out of the market, by propping up a dummy guild to take up more of the limited space, is predatory capitalism at its worst.WillhelmBlack wrote: »I don't buy from red bibs. No one should.WillhelmBlack wrote: »I don't buy from red bibs. No one should.
what do you mean by "red bibs"?
A red tabard with a skull and crossed daggers on the front. You will notice on EU that it's around 80% of the trading guilds in the popular locations.
ok, I will check that out in the game.
And could you please elaborate more about which mafia cartel practices they do?
Imagine Starbucks going around buying up the locations around town to shut out competition from Dunkin Donuts and McDonald's and Taco Bell etc, so that your ONLY option is their overpriced products.
The people who mindlessly parrot 'supply and demand bruh' as if the words are a protection from market manipulation have not given consideration to how it stops being a 'free' market when competitors are not able to get a spot in the marketplace.
This is why I say the one surest method of returning integrity to the marketplace is a public trader available to all. And, likely making things bought from a trader BoP to quell reselling.
What I always try to point out is how small the actual market place really is in the game. Guild Traders are a huge limiting factor on selling to the community.
There are about 150 traders, making it a maximum of 75k sellers.
We already know that many of these traders do not have full guilds, so even if we are generous and say all contain 450 active members we are down to 67k, we also know that people belong to more than 1 trading guild, so lets be generous and take it down to 65K people capable of selling. so if we estimate based on some figures that said 1.5 million players, this mean about 4% of the community are able to sell.
so even if you want to say 150k players, it still means less than 50% of the community is able to sell!
This is the worst type of trading in any game full stop.4 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Did you read the post? Shutting others out of the market, by propping up a dummy guild to take up more of the limited space, is predatory capitalism at its worst.WillhelmBlack wrote: »I don't buy from red bibs. No one should.WillhelmBlack wrote: »I don't buy from red bibs. No one should.
what do you mean by "red bibs"?
A red tabard with a skull and crossed daggers on the front. You will notice on EU that it's around 80% of the trading guilds in the popular locations.
ok, I will check that out in the game.
And could you please elaborate more about which mafia cartel practices they do?
Imagine Starbucks going around buying up the locations around town to shut out competition from Dunkin Donuts and McDonald's and Taco Bell etc, so that your ONLY option is their overpriced products.
The people who mindlessly parrot 'supply and demand bruh' as if the words are a protection from market manipulation have not given consideration to how it stops being a 'free' market when competitors are not able to get a spot in the marketplace.
This is why I say the one surest method of returning integrity to the marketplace is a public trader available to all. And, likely making things bought from a trader BoP to quell reselling.
The "mafia competitors" also have to pay for the loan of that spot.
Seriously, the in foil hats are real.0 -
Cryptical✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Did you read the post? Shutting others out of the market, by propping up a dummy guild to take up more of the limited space, is predatory capitalism at its worst.WillhelmBlack wrote: »I don't buy from red bibs. No one should.WillhelmBlack wrote: »I don't buy from red bibs. No one should.
what do you mean by "red bibs"?
A red tabard with a skull and crossed daggers on the front. You will notice on EU that it's around 80% of the trading guilds in the popular locations.
ok, I will check that out in the game.
And could you please elaborate more about which mafia cartel practices they do?
Imagine Starbucks going around buying up the locations around town to shut out competition from Dunkin Donuts and McDonald's and Taco Bell etc, so that your ONLY option is their overpriced products.
The people who mindlessly parrot 'supply and demand bruh' as if the words are a protection from market manipulation have not given consideration to how it stops being a 'free' market when competitors are not able to get a spot in the marketplace.
This is why I say the one surest method of returning integrity to the marketplace is a public trader available to all. And, likely making things bought from a trader BoP to quell reselling.
The "mafia competitors" also have to pay for the loan of that spot.
Seriously, the in foil hats are real.
You say tinfoil hat, I see the "buy up the space to deny a resource to my competition" strategy from real life being applied to the in-game marketplace.
In your local grocery store, If you think companies do not pay for more shelf space than they need, in order to reduce a competitor's access to the market, then you are blind. If you think such a simple tactic could not be adapted into the eso guild trader system, then you are a blind fool.
Edit: Try this. Next time you are food shopping, go up to whichever manager happens to be walking around the grocery aisles and say "Excuse me. There's a game I play, where people claim a few players are buying up store space so they can cripple competition, and someone said that outside companies like for bread and chips do that sort of thing, that the bigger companies buy space to keep the smaller outfits out. Is that for real?"Edited by Cryptical on September 28, 2016 4:30PMXbox NA2 -
altemriel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭maybe a solution would be some kind of rotation of which guild trader could the guild own for the week, that it would prevent the same guilds to always buy the same guild traders
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert0 -
altemriel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »OP is right about the Cartel thing though he overdramatizes it. I know of 3 ToP NA trade guilds that work together to control Mournhold, Wayrest, and Reaper's March. The BoP change won't change anything . The only thing the BoP change does is snub Endgame players. Trade guilds were doing the same thing before trials were updated.
could you be more specific about the names of the guilds?0 -
laksikus✭✭✭✭✭
✭but you know, that skyblobber is an opponent of those that wear the same tabbard?
cos you sound like those 2 would be the same
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altemriel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭maybe a solution would be some kind of rotation of which guild trader could the guild own for the week, that it would prevent the same guilds to always buy the same guild traders
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert
or maybe even a better solution would be to allow anyone, not just the guild members to sell to the guild trader NPCs directly0 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »BoP in One Tam - will it help stop the Guild Cartel
A global auction house would have done that, which is what ZOS should have been working on from the start.
Changing everything to BoP at this stage in the game is 100% about selling DLC's/subs.
That they would make such a seemingly desperate-for-money move at a time when the game is doing well, and ON TOP of that pull this disgusting gambling crate BS at the same time...
I don't know what happened to this company but it's getting pretty hard to support them anymore.3 -
WuffyCerulei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I think the same bullcrap has been happening on the NA PC server as well. Lots of materials that didn't cost much before (ie dreugh waxes, tempering alloys, and rosin) are all about 1-2k above the appropriate price. I remember a couple months ago, tempering alloys were only about 7k at most, but now they're like 9-10k. Greed, I tell ya. Least my trading guild doesn't inflate prices needlessly. It's actually against guild policy.Sorcerer's pretty much been the same for years. Nerf Rush of Agony and Saints&Seducer's1 -
Oakmontowls_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
No because that would be naming and shaming which is against the forum rules.timidobserver wrote: »OP is right about the Cartel thing though he overdramatizes it. I know of 3 ToP NA trade guilds that work together to control Mournhold, Wayrest, and Reaper's March. The BoP change won't change anything . The only thing the BoP change does is snub Endgame players. Trade guilds were doing the same thing before trials were updated.
could you be more specific about the names of the guilds?
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stevepdodson_ESO888✭✭✭✭✭
✭but you know, that skyblobber is an opponent of those that wear the same tabbard?
cos you sound like those 2 would be the same
i made up the name "skyblobber" as i was not going to name and shame...if you are saying there is a real skyblobber then i immediately change the name again so as not to offend (break the TOS)
let me just refer back to an earlier response that called them "red bibs" i think it was...so if you actually know of an "opponent" to this then you are fully aware that a cartel exists and you prove my point
the "opponent" as you call him might also be involved in some nefarious (i always wanted to use that word in a sentence) trading practices. oh hang on, i want to use the word nefarious again.
btw - thx to everyone who responded (good, bad, happy, sad) it's amazing what turns up when you log off for a while. anyway, i can go and play the game now.0 -
KingYogi415✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Items in this game are basically stocks. And the big boys can pump or dump however they want.
Maybe learn to watch the curve instead of just cry about it.1 -
Sunver✭✭✭LOL. So many socialists here...
Someone is too rich, lets make some regulations to make them as poor as everyone else, who don't have the nerve or stamina to earn big like them!
This is everything but fair people.
What would have happened if someone said to you:
This car of yours its 100k$, right? Well you see, I have only 5k$ car so lets sell mine and yours and buy two 52,5k$ cars for both of us, alright? It's unfair that you are rich and I am poor.
Hilarious, right? But that's exactly what you are proposing by "merchant rotation" or "ZOS do something".
You want to punish people for being good entrepreneurs and taking their chance when everyone else went with their mediocre income just fine out of laziness or fear to loose time/money. And now the whines and QQ's... for crying out loud, stop.When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;
What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!3 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LOL. So many socialists here...
Someone is too rich, lets make some regulations to make them as poor as everyone else, who don't have the nerve or stamina to earn big like them!
This is everything but fair people.
Thanks, Donald. It is not at all disingenuous to say that ANY regulation of monopoly would necessarily make the rich instantly poor. Obviously ethical integrity = poverty, and ANY taxes on a billionaire will immediately make him homeless. Nope, not disingenuous at all.What would have happened if someone said to you:
This car of yours its 100k$, right? Well you see, I have only 5k$ car so lets sell mine and yours and buy two 52,5k$ cars for both of us, alright? It's unfair that you are rich and I am poor.
If someone said that, they would be making a totally inappropriate analogy out of an unrelated generalization.You want to punish people for being good entrepreneurs and taking their chance when everyone else went with their mediocre income just fine out of laziness or fear to loose time/money. And now the whines and QQ's... for crying out loud, stop.
Sounds like the sort of overgeneralizing, uncaring, totally selfish argument I have come to expect from the 1% crowd.
"If they weren't lazy socialists then they wouldn't have CHOSEN to be poor! They would have gone out and got a SMALL loan of a MILLION dollars and declared corporate bankruptcy 6 times while not paying taxes or even paying for fair work done by contracted laborers.
"Oh, and that doesn't make me a crook to steal from the American people like that. Oh no, it's just smart! In fact, stealing from the American people makes me qualified to LEAD the American people!"
A global auction house is superior and also just more convenient.- It lets everyone see the current price of items GLOBALLY without reliance on addons (which can be manipulated since they have to be manually sent to chat).
- They allow an abundant supply in one place that prevents guilds in choice locations creating the impression of scarcity to drive up prices.
- They prevent big monopolies on these choice locations from being able to fleece members for 10k+ per week for the "privilege" of membership.
- It prevents the ludicrous bidding war that has reached stratospheric proportions.
Of course all this is moot. The whole reason for changing items that were always BOE to BOP is 100% about selling DLC in the Crown store, not maintaining some gimmicky and badly designed market system.
Edited by Phinix1 on September 28, 2016 8:08PM6 -
Cryptical✭✭✭✭✭
✭LOL. So many socialists here...
Someone is too rich, lets make some regulations to make them as poor as everyone else, who don't have the nerve or stamina to earn big like them!
This is everything but fair people.
What would have happened if someone said to you:
This car of yours its 100k$, right? Well you see, I have only 5k$ car so lets sell mine and yours and buy two 52,5k$ cars for both of us, alright? It's unfair that you are rich and I am poor.
Hilarious, right? But that's exactly what you are proposing by "merchant rotation" or "ZOS do something".
You want to punish people for being good entrepreneurs and taking their chance when everyone else went with their mediocre income just fine out of laziness or fear to loose time/money. And now the whines and QQ's... for crying out loud, stop.
No, it's not about someone *having* too much gold. It's about someone using their gold to construct a barrier between other people and success.
It's not about the size of people's wallet, it is about when they use their wallet to interfere in other people's success.
It's not about how well someone climbed the ladder of success, it's about them turning around and kicking the ladder away so that nobody else can climb it.
You have that nice 100K car. Cool for you. Don't use your 100K car to run me off the road while I'm working to earn my own 100K car.
Do you get it now?Xbox NA9 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭maybe a solution would be some kind of rotation of which guild trader could the guild own for the week, that it would prevent the same guilds to always buy the same guild traders
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert
Um, no. Really horrible idea since a small guild with nothing to sell could get a decent location. It's an economy and as such any business venture is survival of the fittest, not some socialist regime.
The entire idea of the guild cartel is laughable at best.0