BoP in One Tam - will it help stop the Guild Cartel

stevepdodson_ESO888 · September 2016

As we are experiencing (on the EU server at least) right now, there is a large Guild Cartel, acting in some ways like an in-game Mafia, taking over and trying to manipulate the game economy.

They don't even try to hide this as you will now see about 15 to 20 of these guilds have even started wearing the same tabbard. (check out Belkarth, Rawlka, Mournhold, Grahtwood and look at the tabbards)

The infamous SkyBlobber (no real names here so no name and shame...and hopefully no one else has picked the name SkyBlobber) robber baron or "The Don" has even gone about buying up certain types of mats so can then fix/manipulate the price for them.

They have also set up "dummy" Guilds with little or nothing to sell just so they can bid for traders and prevent others who are not in the cartel from getting a spot.

I am not fully sure of the ZoS terms of service, but i am sure these "so called" trading practices go against them and those doing this should be banned (ban hammer in-coming).

There are still guilds who have not been strong-armed into joining the Cartel and "paying the protection money" but they are finding it harder and harder to find a guild trader to hire.

It is my hope that with sets becoming BoP and the updated writs providing more mats, the Cartel will become starved of money.

I know BoP will hit other players too (PvE raiders for example, but at least they will be compensated a bit by the high value items they can sell to vendors to offset the cost of potions) and is frowned upon by large parts of the gaming community, but we seriously cannot continue with this current Guild System that allows such practices.

*phew* spleen vented...you see what happens to me when maintenance goes on too long

kuro-dono · September 2016

this sort of stuff been propably going for past 1 year maybe? some of it been well concealed or not very obvious. Well good news is it stops making me being lazy and start collect my own mats, and all the money starts piling up so can do other stuff with it

Guild traders> i would like to have this on items> item you buy from trader cant be resold, it gets locked for this purpose. Would this help? So if you want to resell someones items, buy them directly from them without trader, since there is already *** loads of folks trading their junkies off at stormhaven, wayrest sewers city for example.

KingMagaw · September 2016

If anything mate, the actions your seeing will be increased after 1T, not reduced as Zo$ will take away vet players earning money from selling gold trial gear.
I am PC EU and mainly seeing the currency of gold upgrading tempers being manipulated. Not only that but i have talked to a few players who know specifically who is buying what/when/how much for. There are guilds specifically buying the market out on these as well as a few players who think they can make profit when 1T hits.

As for guild traders blocking spots, this will also become more frequent as guilds will boil down to only a few trading ones worth being in because of the trader spot.

In my opinion these actions will simply push more into doing the mind numbing writs over multiple characters per day to get the gold tempers. I think its extremely hard for a new player now in ESO to be competitive, its basically 100k to upgrade any metal piece to gold. 300k for DW and 2H, never mind Golding the armors ))

Gargath · September 2016

The cartel way of trading isn't anything weird when you imagine how real cartels/corporations work in real life. It's just to make maximum profit. You cannot change the system so accept it and be a part of it. Join a cartel guild, which is easy since they announce themself in general chat on a frequest basis, and start earning real gold. Raw mats always sell high. I did so and don't complain

.

PS. I see there is constantly few free spots in my trading guild with Rawl'kha trader, would you like to be invited?

Lumbermill_Emperor · September 2016

nothing wrong in Cartels
i like em in ESO

also, they cant manipulate economy
its just another tinfoil topic
i hate useless topics like this

Dread_Viking · September 2016

KingMagaw wrote: »

If anything mate, the actions your seeing will be increased after 1T, not reduced as Zo$ will take away vet players earning money from selling gold trial gear.
I am PC EU and mainly seeing the currency of gold upgrading tempers being manipulated. Not only that but i have talked to a few players who know specifically who is buying what/when/how much for. There are guilds specifically buying the market out on these as well as a few players who think they can make profit when 1T hits.

As for guild traders blocking spots, this will also become more frequent as guilds will boil down to only a few trading ones worth being in because of the trader spot.

In my opinion these actions will simply push more into doing the mind numbing writs over multiple characters per day to get the gold tempers. I think its extremely hard for a new player now in ESO to be competitive, its basically 100k to upgrade any metal piece to gold. 300k for DW and 2H, never mind Golding the armors ))

i agree

Dubhliam · September 2016

Actually, I hate the fact that sets will be available to grind out and camp out.

You might be frustrated about the current situation of the game economy, but if all sets will be available for everyone to farm in a couple of hours, there won't be an economy.

And no, the guilds are not dictating the prices, supply and demand do.

We'll see a great increase of supply soon, grinders will grab all the profit in the first few days and then the rest of us can be happy with scrap prices.

Remember Bahraha's Curse set?
It was oversupplied when TG got out, basically worthless in a matter of days. A great set, there was and still is a high demand for it.
But the oversupply of it ruined the prices forever.

Lumbermill_Emperor · September 2016

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

I am not fully sure of the ZoS terms of service, but i am sure these "so called" trading practices go against them and those doing this should be banned (ban hammer in-coming).

not against TOS
if you not sure - just please do not post and investigate first

Bigevilpeter · September 2016

Well the things that really were costly were the mats and tempers, and they are still sell-able so this won't fix the main problem.

Other gear actually becomes very cheap eventually due to its availability, with the exception of a few items, now all gear will be harder to get and will be tradable for a lot

JaJaLuka · September 2016

The bind on pickup is going to be cancer to some players due to bad RNG or a sheer hatred of the content you'll have to grind to get the gear.
I hadn't realised it was stretching as far as mats too. Can someone verify with a thread? If that's the case and everyone has to farm wood, metal and cloth (let alone alchemy mats and enchanting), this is going to become one of the most painful games to play.
Yay... more grinding. I left a certain other game for that reason.

altemriel · September 2016

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

As we are experiencing (on the EU server at least) right now, there is a large Guild Cartel, acting in some ways like an in-game Mafia, taking over and trying to manipulate the game economy.

They don't even try to hide this as you will now see about 15 to 20 of these guilds have even started wearing the same tabbard. (check out Belkarth, Rawlka, Mournhold, Grahtwood and look at the tabbards)

The infamous SkyBlobber (no real names here so no name and shame...and hopefully no one else has picked the name SkyBlobber) robber baron or "The Don" has even gone about buying up certain types of mats so can then fix/manipulate the price for them.

They have also set up "dummy" Guilds with little or nothing to sell just so they can bid for traders and prevent others who are not in the cartel from getting a spot.

I am not fully sure of the ZoS terms of service, but i am sure these "so called" trading practices go against them and those doing this should be banned (ban hammer in-coming).

There are still guilds who have not been strong-armed into joining the Cartel and "paying the protection money" but they are finding it harder and harder to find a guild trader to hire.

It is my hope that with sets becoming BoP and the updated writs providing more mats, the Cartel will become starved of money.

I know BoP will hit other players too (PvE raiders for example, but at least they will be compensated a bit by the high value items they can sell to vendors to offset the cost of potions) and is frowned upon by large parts of the gaming community, but we seriously cannot continue with this current Guild System that allows such practices.

*phew* spleen vented...you see what happens to me when maintenance goes on too long

I am not sure if I understand what you mean by the cartel mafia practices and dumping the prices (maybe because I am not english native), but my english is quite good, so please explain the theory behind it more.

What do these cartel guilds do? They buy all the mats and then sell them for higher prices? Or what?
Will then the other guilds who still sell the mats for lower prices make even more profit by that?
Or do you mean that the cartel guilds sell the mats for lower prices than usual? That would be good in my opinion.

And about trader bids, that the billionaires buy out all the trader spots, that is pretty bad, but I have no idea how to solve that.

I wrote that many months before, that this game allows the people to become insanely rich, but I am not sure if it is bad or good.
I have just basic knowledge of the economy theory. Maybe there should be a cap (a few millions) that how max gold can one account accumulate.

WillhelmBlack · September 2016

I don't buy from red bibs. No one should.

altemriel · September 2016

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I don't buy from red bibs. No one should.

what do you mean by "red bibs"?

Epona222 · September 2016

I find these topics hilarious/sad. I run a trading guild on NA PC, probably a sort of mid range guild. I do not tell people how to price their goods, or interfere in any way with anyones trading. If goods are selling for x amount, it is not because there is any conspiracy to force people to sell at x amount, it's because people have worked out for themselves that they can get x amount for that/those item(s). And people are buying them for x amount.

Put away the tin foil hats!

WillhelmBlack · September 2016

I don't buy from red bibs. No one should.

altemriel wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I don't buy from red bibs. No one should.

what do you mean by "red bibs"?

A red tabard with a skull and crossed daggers on the front. You will notice on EU that it's around 80% of the trading guilds in the popular locations.

altemriel · September 2016

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I don't buy from red bibs. No one should.

altemriel wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I don't buy from red bibs. No one should.

what do you mean by "red bibs"?

A red tabard with a skull and crossed daggers on the front. You will notice on EU that it's around 80% of the trading guilds in the popular locations.

ok, I will check that out in the game.

And could you please elaborate more about which mafia cartel practices they do?

Epona222 · September 2016

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I don't buy from red bibs. No one should.

altemriel wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I don't buy from red bibs. No one should.

what do you mean by "red bibs"?

A red tabard with a skull and crossed daggers on the front. You will notice on EU that it's around 80% of the trading guilds in the popular locations.

There are very limited guild tabard options tbf

disintegr8 · September 2016

BOP is a pain in the proverbial. Not being able to donate, sell, swap or trade a perfectly good piece of gear is so frustrating.

I don't care who I buy or sell stuff to/from, as long as I can get what I want and afford it, I'll buy it. Gold is plentiful in this game and everyone has the opportunity to get what they want if they don't want to buy it.

Junipus · September 2016

Here's the scoop:

People with money are buying up gold tempers and other high value goods because when One Tamriel drops there will be a lot of new sets available which people will want to upgrade to gold. This means that the demand for gold tempers will skyrocket and profit will be made.

People with money are buying alchemy ingredients for the most popular potions because when One Tamriel drops there'll be a large increase in the demand for potions from people who have no choice but to buy them at whatever prices are available.

Once One Tamriel drops the price of Rubedite, Ruby Ash and Ancestor silk will plummet as the market becomes saturated thanks to the widespread availability of them in any zone and from any content assuming you're either CP160+ or have the required passive(s).

Trade cartels might be the conspiracy of the day, but given how often I don't see the famous, allegedly cartel, trade guild in Craglorn and instead in Hew's Bane and given the total sales per day of all the trade guilds (estimates of about 500 million) I doubt anyone buying up all the materials specifically to manipulate prices will actually make any impact beyond the brief period when there's more demand than supply.

Once the supply overwhelms the demand then everyone who sells benefits, and even then it might not work (put Tempering Alloys for sale at 12.5k and didn't sell for 2 weeks).

altemriel · September 2016

Junipus wrote: »

Here's the scoop:

People with money are buying up gold tempers and other high value goods because when One Tamriel drops there will be a lot of new sets available which people will want to upgrade to gold. This means that the demand for gold tempers will skyrocket and profit will be made.

People with money are buying alchemy ingredients for the most popular potions because when One Tamriel drops there'll be a large increase in the demand for potions from people who have no choice but to buy them at whatever prices are available.

Once One Tamriel drops the price of Rubedite, Ruby Ash and Ancestor silk will plummet as the market becomes saturated thanks to the widespread availability of them in any zone and from any content assuming you're either CP160+ or have the required passive(s).

Trade cartels might be the conspiracy of the day, but given how often I don't see the famous, allegedly cartel, trade guild in Craglorn and instead in Hew's Bane and given the total sales per day of all the trade guilds (estimates of about 500 million) I doubt anyone buying up all the materials specifically to manipulate prices will actually make any impact beyond the brief period when there's more demand than supply.

Once the supply overwhelms the demand then everyone who sells benefits, and even then it might not work (put Tempering Alloys for sale at 12.5k and didn't sell for 2 weeks).

well, ok, so the billionaire guilds buy up the mats now and sell them for higher price when there will be high demand for them. but when the demand drops, everything will return back to normal.
good advice would be everyone farm mats now, sell for higher too.

I would not call that mafia practice, that is regular demand-supply practice, done even in the real world...

I agree that the issue, that the billionaire guilds buy up all the trader spots sucks, but how to prevent it? no idea...

NewBlacksmurf · September 2016

Only if more items were BoP would it stop. This will just shift what's valuable and cause more farming.

Lumbermill_Emperor · September 2016

BOP is terrible idea
only noobs want it

Junipus · September 2016

Pick alternative places and raise awareness.

So many good bargains to be had from guilds in other locations like Daggerfall, Stormhaven, Marbruk, Skyreach, Baandari Trading Outpost etc.

Might not help get a prominent spot, but the only reason Craglorn is the dominant spot is because it's the last sizeable landmass released with a good quantity of trader spots in a convenient location. When they release the next DLC with a landmass there's every possibility that it'll become the dominant trade spot, or at the very least could add between 3 and 8 new traders.

Cherryblossom · September 2016

Epona222 wrote: »

I find these topics hilarious/sad. I run a trading guild on NA PC, probably a sort of mid range guild. I do not tell people how to price their goods, or interfere in any way with anyones trading. If goods are selling for x amount, it is not because there is any conspiracy to force people to sell at x amount, it's because people have worked out for themselves that they can get x amount for that/those item(s). And people are buying them for x amount.

Put away the tin foil hats!

I think you forget most traders use an Addon to decide the price, so if you can get the most popular spots selling for the same sort of price it's incredibly easy to manipulate the Price.
You never need to tell people to sell at a certain price, because most will sell close or just below the normal price in the guild, if anyone goes well below, someone in the guild buys and puts straight back up for the Price they want it manipulated to.

It's not difficult and more or less any fool can do it if they have the gold. with 4 accounts you can belong to the guilds in the 20 most popular locations and do this solo if you want.

Lumbermill_Emperor · September 2016

@Cherryblossom only noobs taking an addon price as price for listing an item

every good trader know he need also to check stores around store he want to list it
and choose lowest price among listed items

and if your items will be sold after that - its good result for a seller
if buyer with tinfoil on the head thinking all prices in guild store is a result of manipulation - he can try to buy in /zone

Cryptical · September 2016

altemriel wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I don't buy from red bibs. No one should.

altemriel wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I don't buy from red bibs. No one should.

what do you mean by "red bibs"?

A red tabard with a skull and crossed daggers on the front. You will notice on EU that it's around 80% of the trading guilds in the popular locations.

ok, I will check that out in the game.

And could you please elaborate more about which mafia cartel practices they do?

Did you read the post? Shutting others out of the market, by propping up a dummy guild to take up more of the limited space, is predatory capitalism at its worst.

Imagine Starbucks going around buying up the locations around town to shut out competition from Dunkin Donuts and McDonald's and Taco Bell etc, so that your ONLY option is their overpriced products.

The people who mindlessly parrot 'supply and demand bruh' as if the words are a protection from market manipulation have not given consideration to how it stops being a 'free' market when competitors are not able to get a spot in the marketplace.

This is why I say the one surest method of returning integrity to the marketplace is a public trader available to all. And, likely making things bought from a trader BoP to quell reselling.

altemriel · September 2016

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

I find these topics hilarious/sad. I run a trading guild on NA PC, probably a sort of mid range guild. I do not tell people how to price their goods, or interfere in any way with anyones trading. If goods are selling for x amount, it is not because there is any conspiracy to force people to sell at x amount, it's because people have worked out for themselves that they can get x amount for that/those item(s). And people are buying them for x amount.

Put away the tin foil hats!

I think you forget most traders use an Addon to decide the price, so if you can get the most popular spots selling for the same sort of price it's incredibly easy to manipulate the Price.
You never need to tell people to sell at a certain price, because most will sell close or just below the normal price in the guild, if anyone goes well below, someone in the guild buys and puts straight back up for the Price they want it manipulated to.

It's not difficult and more or less any fool can do it if they have the gold. with 4 accounts you can belong to the guilds in the 20 most popular locations and do this solo if you want.

aha, good point...

I remember now, someone writting about this elsewhere here.

hmm, but is it really true that someone can manipulate prices so easily, when so many players play the game? would it not require many hundrets of player conspiring in this activity and many hundrets of transactions to really have impact on the average price - shown then in the addon?

Junipus · September 2016

There's roughly between 135-140 trader spots in game, I'd be a tin-foil timmy if I believed all of them were controlled by a cartel of trade guilds.

altemriel · September 2016

Cryptical wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I don't buy from red bibs. No one should.

altemriel wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I don't buy from red bibs. No one should.

what do you mean by "red bibs"?

A red tabard with a skull and crossed daggers on the front. You will notice on EU that it's around 80% of the trading guilds in the popular locations.

ok, I will check that out in the game.

And could you please elaborate more about which mafia cartel practices they do?

Did you read the post? Shutting others out of the market, by propping up a dummy guild to take up more of the limited space, is predatory capitalism at its worst.

Imagine Starbucks going around buying up the locations around town to shut out competition from Dunkin Donuts and McDonald's and Taco Bell etc, so that your ONLY option is their overpriced products.

The people who mindlessly parrot 'supply and demand bruh' as if the words are a protection from market manipulation have not given consideration to how it stops being a 'free' market when competitors are not able to get a spot in the marketplace.

This is why I say the one surest method of returning integrity to the marketplace is a public trader available to all. And, likely making things bought from a trader BoP to quell reselling.

aha, good point, I understand now and agree

altemriel · September 2016

Junipus wrote: »

There's roughly between 135-140 trader spots in game, I'd be a tin-foil timmy if I believed all of them were controlled by a cartel of trade guilds.

for sure not all of them, but the OP probably means the main ones

Lumbermill_Emperor · September 2016

there is dosen topics same like this

creaated by noobs time to time

people cant farm gold or dont know how to do it
and they see they cannot afford store prices
and they come to the forum and whine about conspiracy and manipulation lol

always the same

i saw at least 5 topics about it in past year