Very sad to see the crown crates are gonna exploit people with gambling issues!

JimT722 · September 2016

Asardes wrote: »

From my point of view the crown store contains 90% useless, purely cosmetic stuff, 7% marginally useful things like riding lessons, experience scrolls and various other consumables and 3% useful things, namely the DLCs, which are at least real content (mostly crap though, with some good stuff sprinkled in: skill points, set workbenches, a trial, an arena) - those are priced from 1500-3000 crowns each. But there was a blue neon cat mount that was priced at 4000. And people bought it, I see lots of those mounts.

There are a lot of things in the real world that tickle people's vanity to get their money, some involve randomness as well. But that's life. Some just want to show off, and those things help them do it. It's a tax on vanity. Gambling is not a "tax on the poor" in the real life either. There are plenty of examples of very rich people who have been ruined by gambling debts. It's a tax on vanity and stupidity. As long as there are enough stupid people who would gamble or pay their last penny for a shiny bead, there will be smart people who would take advantage of them. And it's OK, because being stupid shouldn't be free; if it were, it will actually encouraged.

So I really don't see any reason here to get worked out. The more ZoS will sell, the better the game will be for the rest. If it sells silly stuff and there are people who will buy/gamble for it I'm actually happy because I know that there will be enough money for server upkeep, patching and even new content, without needing to pay more than we already do. I see lots of people who like to show off their zombie horse or poof shaman suit, but barely know how to play. But I don't get mad at them, because they pay for me to enjoy playing the content they are unable to, still riding my plain brown horse and with a game earned pet in tow

The money likely won't do what you hope. I've seen the money in other games go to what sells. You may only have the next months crown crate content update to look forward to. Dlc's take a lot of time to make. If they can make much more from these with a lot less invested effort then what are they going to focus on? It happened in SWTOR and they seem to be following them closely. Would you be okay with yearly updates about the same size of what we have been getting.

Woeler · September 2016

While I am not really happy with how these crates are implemented at the moment I don't see how this is their fault?

You buy cigarettes, tobacco companies fault?
You buy alcohol, pub's fault?
You buy crown crates, ZOS' fault?

No my friend, that is not how life works. If people have gambling issues, they need to get help. You adapt to the world, not the world to you.

Gambling issues? Get help! It's YOUR problem.

Sharee · September 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

If i open a distillery, i am not trying exploit people with alcohol issues, i am opening a business to provide goods for which there is a demand. There are plenty of customers interested in my goods that are not alcohol addicts.

Why would you pick a distillery as an example when you have the entire gambling and casino industry to pick from?

Because there are more people who occasionally drink than people who occasionally gamble, and i wanted the analogy to be understood by as many as possible.

You should have picked a casino. People do not open a distillery for the same reason that people open a casino.

I would argue that the reason is the same: to make money by providing goods/services there is demand for.

lordrichter wrote: »

The question is whether the Crown Crates are more like a distillery than a casino. Pacrooti makes an excellent case that it is more along the lines of a casino than a distillery. The point for the player is not to just have fun, but to also get lucky and win something big. This concept does not exist in the distillery. (Edit: Ahem... at least not in a reputable "distillery") The point for ZOS is to get players to buy a lot of Crown Crates, as many as they want. There are no brakes and no point where ZOS must step in an stop the customer, as there would be in distillery with on-premises consumption. ZOS is acting more like a casino. They have no legal requirement to stop the customer that is taking it too far.

With the Crown Crates, ZOS fills the role of a casino owner more effectively than the role of a distillery owner.

When you lose at a casino, you gain nothing. With the crown crates, you always gain something, only the value of what you get varies from case to case. That is much more like buying alcohol (sometimes the stuff you buy is excellent, sometimes barely drinkable, but you always get something). Granted, the amount of "randomness" with alcohol is less than with the crates, but at least it is a similar concept, as opposed to the "all or nothing" of gambling.

Arguably, this is also the reason why ZOS emphasizes so strongly that you always gets something useful when you buy a crate - to cover themselves in case anyone tries to bring any gambling laws against them. They will argue that they are selling consumables in the crates, with the occasional random perk thrown in. Kinda like when you buy a bottle of coke, and there's a random chance to win a car on the bottom of the bottle cap - that's not exactly gambling either.

Iselin · September 2016

Eiagra wrote: »

There's some interesting videos on Extra Credit that goes into some of these skeeving, low-down, scummy, manipulative, exploitative designs.

I have very serious concerns about where things are headed now. If they are willing to exploit the player base to this level, what's next?

All I can do is just observe. Our voices seem to go unheeded.

Our voices are unheeded because when they made the decision to do this, they knew exactly the reaction they would get and did it anyway.

Don't expect any engagement from ZOS ever on the morality of selling gambling boxes. I suspect there are many within the company that feel about them exactly the same way many of us do but you'll never hear them say anything about it in public.

You have to remember that those of us who even bother to come here and write about ESO-related things and how we feel about them are a tiny minority of the player base. It's not our money they're counting on.

The company execs are just going to weather our rants and look at how much more money they're making after they add this and declare it a success or not. If not, expect a more aggressive approach: first with more marginally P2W items if cosmetic-only doesn't cut it, and then with full-on P2W if that still doesn't meet their revenue projections.

Asmael · September 2016

Knowing how RNG favors me (kappa), it would probably require around 1000€ for me to get a mount.

Meanwhile, I can buy the mount I want for 10€. Sounds legit. I hate that cosmetic items are locked behind a massive RNG gate involving actual cash, with no way to buy those directly.

I'll pass.

Kas · September 2016

tbh, i support the whole thing. it works extremely well for games like dota2 that maintain an incredible anti-p2win feel whilst being monetized with enormous success. sure, it may exploit some people but to be honest, if someone seriously overspends for cosmetic eso items, he's probably bound to overspend his money somewhere in today's world.

Sigma957 · September 2016

Actually I think in the real world people with gambling addiction are at this very moment not playing video games but are playing at the casino's or at the local pub betting on horse races and such. The slot machines are the worse of them all. The crates are here on the pts so we can provide feed back before it hits live maybe with a lower cost per crate or a higher chance to get the better items might be the go.

BlazingDynamo · September 2016

Woeler wrote: »

While I am not really happy with how these crates are implemented at the moment I don't see how this is their fault?

You buy cigarettes, tobacco companies fault?
You buy alcohol, pub's fault?
You buy crown crates, ZOS' fault?

No my friend, that is not how life works. If people have gambling issues, they need to get help. You adapt to the world, not the world to you.

Gambling issues? Get help! It's YOUR problem.

Spoken like a true person who's never experienced the issue.

This post makes me both laugh and feel for you. Sorry you don't understand buddy.

Armitas · September 2016

I imagine they will make a fortune on this.

SantieClaws · September 2016

As khajiit has said in the other thread this one she would like to see a reasonable monthly purchase limit put on these boxes.

Sometimes people do need a level of protection from themselves yes and ZOS do have some responsibility in that direction.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

JimT722 · September 2016

Armitas wrote: »

I imagine they will make a fortune on this.

Of course they will. It works. They will generate massive profits taken from a very small portion of the player base that can't see an obvious scheme to rip them off.

Wolfchild07 · September 2016

Woeler wrote: »

While I am not really happy with how these crates are implemented at the moment I don't see how this is their fault?

You buy cigarettes, tobacco companies fault?
You buy alcohol, pub's fault?
You buy crown crates, ZOS' fault?

No my friend, that is not how life works. If people have gambling issues, they need to get help. You adapt to the world, not the world to you.

Gambling issues? Get help! It's YOUR problem.

Would you sell drugs to an addict?
Would you sell alcohol to an alcoholic?
Would you sell a gun to someone who is suicidal?

It's EVERYONE'S problem. There's a thing called responsibility.
But most people these days are of the mindset that "It will never happen to me or anyone I know, so who cares".

Kas · September 2016

Wolfchild07 wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

While I am not really happy with how these crates are implemented at the moment I don't see how this is their fault?

You buy cigarettes, tobacco companies fault?
You buy alcohol, pub's fault?
You buy crown crates, ZOS' fault?

No my friend, that is not how life works. If people have gambling issues, they need to get help. You adapt to the world, not the world to you.

Gambling issues? Get help! It's YOUR problem.

Would you sell drugs to an addict?
Would you sell alcohol to an alcoholic?
Would you sell a gun to someone who is suicidal?

It's EVERYONE'S problem. There's a thing called responsibility.
But most people these days are of the mindset that "It will never happen to me or anyone I know, so who cares".

Speaking of responsibility: I'm all for protecting children but with adulthood one becomes responsible for her/his own life. I don't need others to control how much I drink or how much sugar I consume. I don't want others to enforce helmets for cyclists. I'm fine with the fact that supermarkets sell alcohol to alcoholics, I'd be fine if the same thing was happening with soft drugs. I don't think anyone should be sold a gun, though - that's not about protecting people from themselves but from others. Would you stop building train tracks, bridges, garages, ropes and whatever else might be used by suicidal people?

If you want to help those people, you have to support such people, educate and offer help (free professional care, medical and/or psychological) when needed. Maybe identify and eliminate triggering effects.

Besides, we're talking about an MMO here. If there are people endangered, it's those that play too much an neglect school/job/family/social circles. Gambling is absolutely no issue in comparison. Those effected gambling are drawn to other places. Even on twitch/youtube many popular figures promote betting on pro-games in several e-sports.

Apart form that, I'm really sick of all that hypocrisy with people claiming how they care for XYZ. if some mmo starts to add RNG cosmetics, starting a discussion about gambling addiction is just totally off. to me it comes off exactly like liberal arts first semesters engaging in protests in support of the needs of some minority (who actually does not identify with those students or their agenda at all)

Woeler · September 2016

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

While I am not really happy with how these crates are implemented at the moment I don't see how this is their fault?

You buy cigarettes, tobacco companies fault?
You buy alcohol, pub's fault?
You buy crown crates, ZOS' fault?

No my friend, that is not how life works. If people have gambling issues, they need to get help. You adapt to the world, not the world to you.

Gambling issues? Get help! It's YOUR problem.

Spoken like a true person who's never experienced the issue.

This post makes me both laugh and feel for you. Sorry you don't understand buddy.

Actually, I smoke. A lot. And I blame nobody but myself. And I'm also not advocating a ban of tabacco because I have a problem. If I truly want to quit I need to either stay strong and get through with it or get help. But what is certainly not a solution is calling out the tabacco companies for selling me cigarettes. That's just running away.

Also "you have no idea boohoo" is not an argument.

Wolfchild07 wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

While I am not really happy with how these crates are implemented at the moment I don't see how this is their fault?

You buy cigarettes, tobacco companies fault?
You buy alcohol, pub's fault?
You buy crown crates, ZOS' fault?

No my friend, that is not how life works. If people have gambling issues, they need to get help. You adapt to the world, not the world to you.

Gambling issues? Get help! It's YOUR problem.

It's EVERYONE'S problem.

No, it's not. It becomes everyones problem when we ban X because some people refuse to get professional help. Which is exactly what this topic is advocating. It's not eliminating the cause of the problem, it's just trying to hide the symptoms. It's running away, nothing more.

Dayth · September 2016

Sureshawt wrote: »

CasNation wrote: »

mad0ni0n wrote: »

ZOS aren't responsible for protecting people from themselves. If people are going to make bad decisions that's their problem, why should everyone go without this feature, that some people might enjoy, just because a small minority are incapable of controlling themselves? The mistakes you make are yours alone, nobody elses.

Are you serious? If so, you are missing the point entirely.

People aren't arguing for the removal of the ENTIRE EVERYTHING that is associated with Crown boxes, they just want the items in those boxes to be available directly for reasonable prices.

It isn't about "protecting" people from bad decisions, it's about elimating predatory business practices while promoting a customer facing business model that attracts new players not drives them away.

Yea. He is seriously right and you are the one missing the point. Nobody is forcing anyone to make the purchase. Nothing in these are mandatory for enjoying the content the game offers.

Characterizing this as a predatory business practice is not just a leap in logic it is laughable. There is no deceit or anything remotely unethical about these items. Information about the items is provided in detail upfront and is a purely optional purchase.

This is simply RNG chance for items at a price.

It may be entirely optional but that doesn't change the fact that they're enabling people with addictive personalities for profit.
Do you think most purchases will be the odd crate from a large group of people, or from a smaller group repeatedly buying just to get a single item they want? They're banking on it being that smaller group, that's what's so despicable.

yodased · September 2016

The outrage is people who want the items but dont want to use the crates.

The argument about gambling addiction is a vit of a stretch because if this triggers that, you are still within addiction and afe going to be gambling on real life things. If tou are in recovery, you will be not drawn into it as you know yourself.

Just be honest and say you want whats there in another way instead of creating some far reaching social issue.

Entitlement is real, if you want whats in there you buy them. If its against your personal ethics to gamble for things, you dont get them.

Brutusmax1mus · September 2016

Lol i know gambling problems are serious but there are a lot better things to be addicted too lol. Such as playing with puppies.

Asardes · September 2016

And speaking of vices:
- I smoked for about 10 years, about 2 packs every 3 days, the hard stuff. One day I just quit and never touched a cigarette. I shaked off the "nicotine addiction" literally overnight.
- I was really fat, about 120 kg (I'm 185 cm tall). One day I decided to shake it off too. So I lost 40 kg in 3.5 months. Bang went the "food addiction".

Those are physical stuff, that actually exists, and with proven neurological positive feedback loops and detrimental medical effects (cancer, heart disease, type 2 diabetes). And people are now talking about "addiction to sex" and "addiction to gambling". Now even about "addiction to silly random virtual stuff boxes".

If you feel they are bad don't buy. If you feel smoking is bad don't smoke. If you feel you're fat, eat less etc. But don't whine and ask the regulators to hamstring a company for selling them, especially when there's no proof they make people physically sick, like cigarettes and sugar loaded food does. For the latter I agree some restrictions, taxes and even outright bans in some contexts should be in place, but not "click-me-and-maybe-you-get-that-pink-hobby-horse" stuff. That's harmless. Technically it's not even gambling, because there's no direct or indirect (stuff is BoP) gain. So it can't be subjected to gambling regulations. It's "gambling" in the same sense farming trials/dungeons/dolmens/world bosses/VMSA is. Get over it.

And about P2W, why not blame ZoS for selling DLCs? One of them contains a BiS healing set and a BiS magicka DD set (the only set with predictable proc), another BiS weapons and yet another a tanking/DD set that has an unique bonus and which can be considered BiS in some contexts.

I should really go check my self restraint privilege now

Zolron · September 2016

Sharee wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

If i open a distillery, i am not trying exploit people with alcohol issues, i am opening a business to provide goods for which there is a demand. There are plenty of customers interested in my goods that are not alcohol addicts.

Why would you pick a distillery as an example when you have the entire gambling and casino industry to pick from?

Because there are more people who occasionally drink than people who occasionally gamble, and i wanted the analogy to be understood by as many as possible.

You should have picked a casino. People do not open a distillery for the same reason that people open a casino.

I would argue that the reason is the same: to make money by providing goods/services there is demand for.

lordrichter wrote: »

The question is whether the Crown Crates are more like a distillery than a casino. Pacrooti makes an excellent case that it is more along the lines of a casino than a distillery. The point for the player is not to just have fun, but to also get lucky and win something big. This concept does not exist in the distillery. (Edit: Ahem... at least not in a reputable "distillery") The point for ZOS is to get players to buy a lot of Crown Crates, as many as they want. There are no brakes and no point where ZOS must step in an stop the customer, as there would be in distillery with on-premises consumption. ZOS is acting more like a casino. They have no legal requirement to stop the customer that is taking it too far.

With the Crown Crates, ZOS fills the role of a casino owner more effectively than the role of a distillery owner.

When you lose at a casino, you gain nothing. With the crown crates, you always gain something, only the value of what you get varies from case to case. That is much more like buying alcohol (sometimes the stuff you buy is excellent, sometimes barely drinkable, but you always get something). Granted, the amount of "randomness" with alcohol is less than with the crates, but at least it is a similar concept, as opposed to the "all or nothing" of gambling.

Arguably, this is also the reason why ZOS emphasizes so strongly that you always gets something useful when you buy a crate - to cover themselves in case anyone tries to bring any gambling laws against them. They will argue that they are selling consumables in the crates, with the occasional random perk thrown in. Kinda like when you buy a bottle of coke, and there's a random chance to win a car on the bottom of the bottle cap - that's not exactly gambling either.

You obviously know little of the Casino industry. Loosers do get compensated, and I'd even dare to say in much more "useful" things then what you'll get from most crown crates. They can recieve complimenteries, such as meals, shows, rooms for the night, and even (depending on the Casino) direct CASH back from their losses....

Faulgor · September 2016

Woeler wrote: »

No, it's not. It becomes everyones problem when we ban X because some people refuse to get professional help. Which is exactly what this topic is advocating. It's not eliminating the cause of the problem, it's just trying to hide the symptoms. It's running away, nothing more.

I'm sorry, but don't you see that companies have a responsibility as well? Anything else presupposes a 100% informed and rational consumer, which is an absolute fairy tale. I don't see how one could knowingly sell or produce something harmful and don't feel at least partially responsible.

And of course these companies know. There's a lot of research going into mechanisms that keep consumers hooked on their product, let alone the possible side effects. Of course Coca Cola knows how their drinks affect the health of their consumers. Of course Exxon has known for a long time about climate change. And of course F2P game developers know how to feed their 'whales'.

Of course these are not just things that are harmful to people who "refuse to get professional help" (as if help was readily available for everyone at any time). But the issue is the same, no matter how large or small the group of vulnerable people you are selling to. Preying on the weak is usually frowned upon.

But I suppose with a certain mindset you don't feel that the suffering of others is your problem, too.

Lumenn · September 2016

JimT722 wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

From my point of view the crown store contains 90% useless, purely cosmetic stuff, 7% marginally useful things like riding lessons, experience scrolls and various other consumables and 3% useful things, namely the DLCs, which are at least real content (mostly crap though, with some good stuff sprinkled in: skill points, set workbenches, a trial, an arena) - those are priced from 1500-3000 crowns each. But there was a blue neon cat mount that was priced at 4000. And people bought it, I see lots of those mounts.

There are a lot of things in the real world that tickle people's vanity to get their money, some involve randomness as well. But that's life. Some just want to show off, and those things help them do it. It's a tax on vanity. Gambling is not a "tax on the poor" in the real life either. There are plenty of examples of very rich people who have been ruined by gambling debts. It's a tax on vanity and stupidity. As long as there are enough stupid people who would gamble or pay their last penny for a shiny bead, there will be smart people who would take advantage of them. And it's OK, because being stupid shouldn't be free; if it were, it will actually encouraged.

So I really don't see any reason here to get worked out. The more ZoS will sell, the better the game will be for the rest. If it sells silly stuff and there are people who will buy/gamble for it I'm actually happy because I know that there will be enough money for server upkeep, patching and even new content, without needing to pay more than we already do. I see lots of people who like to show off their zombie horse or poof shaman suit, but barely know how to play. But I don't get mad at them, because they pay for me to enjoy playing the content they are unable to, still riding my plain brown horse and with a game earned pet in tow

The money likely won't do what you hope. I've seen the money in other games go to what sells. You may only have the next months crown crate content update to look forward to. Dlc's take a lot of time to make. If they can make much more from these with a lot less invested effort then what are they going to focus on? It happened in SWTOR and they seem to be following them closely. Would you be okay with yearly updates about the same size of what we have been getting.

I /agreed. In fact they have already started this. How much time and payroll was put into this? Looking at the videos there's some spit and polish on this, meanwhile we've gone months with crashes(increasing it seems) bugs, glitches, exploits (*cough the Breton costume...*cough) etc. But this obviously had priority over the real game. Even before release...

Lieblingsjunge · September 2016

This happens in mostly every game that's not got a monthly mandatory fee. Yes, gambling crates suck. Yes, they can trigger gambling issues. Yes, they can do this and that. Does anyone remember the Arcade-game on Pokemon(Gameboy for my example), where you had to spin 3 & you got jackpot if you had 3x 7s? I mean, gambling-perspectives is in majority of the games.

I used to play a lot of Forsaken World before coming to ESO a year ago - they had constantly new, fancy boxes with new fashion & mounts. People complained about the urge to spend money, but in the end, it's a part of the deal.
I don't like it- But I accept it, and it's not something I'm gonna quit the game over. Just avoid the Crown Store

!

Strider_Roshin · September 2016

Is it the liquor store's fault that someone drank themself into a stupor? No, people need to have self control of their actions.

Lieblingsjunge · September 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Is it the liquor store's fault that someone drank themself into a stupor? No, people need to have self control of their actions.

Pls. It's 2016. People get offended by everything and if you don't accept "Fluffy drag *** gender" as a gender, you're discriminating. At this point, does self-control even exist, since we're being protected from everything :<

Iselin · September 2016

Some people in this thread apparently wouldn't bat an eye if all the school cafeterias installed slot machines tomorrow.

"Like no one is making you play them, duh"

eserras7b16_ESO · September 2016

Cinbri wrote: »

I feel sad for people that will be exploited by videogame feature.

I agree.

Alp · September 2016

The game's rated 18+. That means that people playing it should hopefully be responsible adults.

Doesn't mean the system is good, but don't blame them for trying to make money off customers willing to pay more.

Add a few guaranteed gems to each box and it would be fine with me.

Elsonso · September 2016

Asardes wrote: »

From my point of view the crown store contains 90% useless, purely cosmetic stuff, 7% marginally useful things like riding lessons, experience scrolls and various other consumables and 3% useful things, namely the DLCs, which are at least real content.

So I really don't see any reason here to get worked out. The more ZoS will sell, the better the game will be for the rest. If it sells silly stuff and there are people who will buy/gamble for it I'm actually happy because I know that there will be enough money for server upkeep, patching and even new content, without needing to pay more than we already do. I see lots of people who like to show off their zombie horse or poof shaman suit, but barely know how to play. But I don't get mad at them, because they pay for me to enjoy playing the content they are unable to, still riding my plain brown horse and with a game earned pet in tow

The Crown Store is targeted directly at the Role Players in the community. There is some splash AoE damage that gets picked up by non-RP players that like accessories, like mounts and pets. In that order.

Aside: I suspect that a lot of players do not use potions at all. They are annoying to have to carry around and without a buff timer, it is hard to tell when they are going to expire. The Crown Crates may have a secondary purpose in getting potions into the hands of the common folk who do not use them.

They have said that they are not going to "do any harm" with the Crown Store*, so right now they have not announced plans to put stuff in the Crown Store that will attract the rest of the player community. Once they do this, the store will open up for other players that are not interested in cosmetics/appearance, mounts, and pets. They need to get the generation of "anti-P2W" players out of the game, though, and replace them with the more standard MMO "bring it on" mentality fostered by all the F2P games out there.

* For what it is worth, I doubt that the "do no harm" statement means what people think it means. I doubt ZOS thinks P2W is harmful, for example. Quite the opposite, I am sure they already have plans for "harmless" P2W.

Sharee wrote: »

When you lose at a casino, you gain nothing. With the crown crates, you always gain something, only the value of what you get varies from case to case.

This is what people most misunderstand about the Crown Store. Players actually gain nothing of value from anything they purchase in the Crown Store, directly or through Crown Crates. Nothing. They get a bit of enjoyment that they cannot take with them. None of us even own what we buy in the Crown Store. We put in real currency and get nothing but in-the-moment entertainment out. That is if we are lucky. I am not sure what entertainment value the Crown potions and elixirs provide for the money spent.

The casinos treasure the people who lose. They don't want to see the people who leave with more money than they walked in with. For that reason, if you lose in a casino, they want you back. If you lose big, they want you back big. These are the people who keep casinos in business, and the successful casinos know how to keep them spending and losing.

ZOS wants the people who drop a ton of disposable cash in the Crown Store. ZOS knows that everyone walks away from the Crown Store with nothing but a happy feeling. This happy feeling is what brings them back, and it is why they spared no expense on the Crown Crates.

The game, well, that is almost a hindrance. Characters die, they get eaten in PVP, and it is just a frustrating experience that drives people away from the Crown Store. Expect that to change. ZOS is not about providing a challenging gaming experience, but will focus on providing something that is easy and peaceful. This is the main purpose of One Tamriel. The happier people are in the game, the more they will spend in the Crown Store, and nothing says happy like trouncing all-you-can-eat monsters that are easy and identical. The game in ESO is nothing more than a (probably soon to be free) buffet to attract Crown Store customers, and as long as the food looks good, it has served the purpose.

yodased wrote: »

The outrage is people who want the items but dont want to use the crates.

This is me.

I have to sit back and ask myself how much I really want them to put the "exclusive Crate stuff" in the store. I mean, it costs me money to buy that stuff, and as I have said above, I really don't get anything from it. I might dress up my little dolly and go fight monsters like Buffy, but in the end, is it actually worth the money?

What ZOS is really doing is coming up with a great reason for me to not buy Crowns. The less there is to buy, the less reason to buy Crowns. Any money I don't spend with ZOS, P2W or not, is money I can spend elsewhere. In gaming, I prefer to spend my money on the game, not the game's store. The latter gets done when the game is worth it, not the store. In the end, I can't take it with me.

Asardes · September 2016

The conclusion of this topic should be:

Don't leave your card unattended if you have kids* that play ESO

*including immature adults that still live at your place and fail to make their own money

At least adults immature enough to gamble for this kind of crap, but mature enough to make their own living are a danger only to themselves

Sharee · September 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

When you lose at a casino, you gain nothing. With the crown crates, you always gain something, only the value of what you get varies from case to case.

This is what people most misunderstand about the Crown Store. Players actually gain nothing of value from anything they purchase in the Crown Store, directly or through Crown Crates. Nothing. They get a bit of enjoyment that they cannot take with them. None of us even own what we buy in the Crown Store. We put in real currency and get nothing but in-the-moment entertainment out. That is if we are lucky. I am not sure what entertainment value the Crown potions and elixirs provide for the money spent.

That you do not see any value in the items found in the crown store does not mean nobody does. That's just you projecting your subjective feelings on the entire community.