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Undaunted Plunder Patch Notes Make Me Worried For ESO's Economy.
GorraShatan
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This worries me:
The problem isn't just that you don't have gold to buy stuff with - it's also that there'll be nothing worth buying. That's the problem with going back to the old BoP ubiquity. What's going to be sufficiently rare and useful to be worth shelling out for?
Undaunted Plunder
We've heard your feedback regarding the inability to make money by running Veteran Trials, and added Undaunted Plunder to the Veteran mode of all Trials.
By defeating bosses in the Veteran-mode Trials, you'll earn Undaunted Plunder – valuable items that can be sold to merchants for 1000 gold each.
Each boss you defeat will drop an increased amount of Undaunted Plunder that you can sell.
We're continuing to keep an eye on these rewards, and will continue to adjust them as needed.
The problem isn't just that you don't have gold to buy stuff with - it's also that there'll be nothing worth buying. That's the problem with going back to the old BoP ubiquity. What's going to be sufficiently rare and useful to be worth shelling out for?
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Minute_Waltz✭✭✭Don't worry, potion prices will increase to counter for that, so vet trials will still be at a loss/break-even. Gold tempers too, as people need to spend to upgrade their gear. There will be overland boe sets you can buy too.0 -
Fabulosity✭✭✭The BoP sets aren't the ones such as the Sun or Elegant sets. These have been taken out of trials and been replaced with the new celestial sets. There will still be stuff to buy because those popular sets can be easily farmed in the overworld zones.0 -
alexkdd99✭✭✭✭✭
✭Fabulosity wrote: »The BoP sets aren't the ones such as the Sun or Elegant sets. These have been taken out of trials and been replaced with the new celestial sets. There will still be stuff to buy because those popular sets can be easily farmed in the overworld zones.
The fact they can easily be farmed means they are easily obtained and no longer rare which means they will be cheap.
Most items price comes from how rare they are plus how good the item actually is, but the bulk of the price is made up from the rarity of the item.2 -
MrAppleman✭✭✭That actually sounds much nicer given the poor drop rates that can be experienced by some.
I've received maybe 4 BIS pieces from 20+ trial runs that are seleable in guild traders. Most runs result in loss of money and absolutely no good drops. Ive been thinking of running less trials because of this.
For example will I ever need 10 infallible aether necklace. Or eternal yokeda. Sure I can trade with my mates but they also get same loot or lack of.
At least I can make a little gold.
And like the other posts have mentioned you can sell the sets from world.
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WhiteMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭Maybe prices were never meant to get up to half a million gold for a piece of gear.The generally amicable yet sporadically salty magplar that may or may not have 1vXed you in Sotha Sil. Who knows?14 -
GorraShatan✭✭✭✭MrAppleman wrote: »That actually sounds much nicer given the poor drop rates that can be experienced by some.
I've received maybe 4 BIS pieces from 20+ trial runs that are seleable in guild traders. Most runs result in loss of money and absolutely no good drops. Ive been thinking of running less trials because of this.
For example will I ever need 10 infallible aether necklace. Or eternal yokeda. Sure I can trade with my mates but they also get same loot or lack of.
At least I can make a little gold.
And like the other posts have mentioned you can sell the sets from world.
As others mentioned, the sets from the world will be too common to be valuable.
And now instead of 4 good drops to sell in 20 Trials, you'll get 0.0 -
NoMoreChillies✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bind on Pickup is cancer
it will ruin many good things
Insulting people on the internet is cowardly.8 -
altemriel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭NoMoreChillies wrote: »Bind on Pickup is cancer
it will ruin many good things
exactly!! they should be all bind on equip, not bind on pickup!!3 -
fastolfv_ESO✭✭✭✭✭its not really that big of a deal, im shocked they are even going out of their way to make some sort of undaunted boxes for doing trials to make money. Look at pvp, you use 10x more potions and there is zero items you can actually sell. Rewards of the worthy loot is horrible and common, making 20k ap nets you 200g and the old sets have no place in builds atm leaving no way to make a gold for playing. You really shouldnt have the ability to get items selling for 100k+ for simple 30-60 min trials runs that virtually anyone can do0 -
MrAppleman✭✭✭GorraShatan wrote: »MrAppleman wrote: »That actually sounds much nicer given the poor drop rates that can be experienced by some.
I've received maybe 4 BIS pieces from 20+ trial runs that are seleable in guild traders. Most runs result in loss of money and absolutely no good drops. Ive been thinking of running less trials because of this.
For example will I ever need 10 infallible aether necklace. Or eternal yokeda. Sure I can trade with my mates but they also get same loot or lack of.
At least I can make a little gold.
And like the other posts have mentioned you can sell the sets from world.
As others mentioned, the sets from the world will be too common to be valuable.
And now instead of 4 good drops to sell in 20 Trials, you'll get 0.
Okay I feel like you ignored the bulk of my post buddy. I rarely receive a single piece worth selling and just used a lot of potions. Again drop rates are quite low and at end of trial I'm left empty handed. Being able to get something back is a benefit.
Out of 30+ vet hel Ra runs not a single divines sun piece or sun ring.
Out of 30+ vet AA runs one necroptence ring, not a single divines necroptence piece.
Some of this gear I'd like to keep for myself as well, so I would need duplicate drops to make money.
I am tired of spending time and resources and getting nothing.
Maybe your drop rates are better than mine but I'd rather make 3000-5000 gold per trial than ZERO gold.0 -
Lylith✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭so, once again, everyone in the game will pay the price for those few who whine the loudest.
marvelous.
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Jsmalls✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't know what people are so worried about there are plenty of ways to get gold that are A LOT more profitable and require 12x less people and less coordination. I'm not sure how many will drop per run, but why the hell can't we profit from Trials? What would be the point of running these trials otherwise, you know how much it costs for a 12 man group to run a new Vet trial on hard mode? 40 to 50 pots ( and that's a low amount, we're talking 30 to 40 minute runs for that amount expect a lot more for less experienced groups) x 12. That's 600 pots, pots can average 30k per hundred, so that's 180k in pots alone per run. Now add your repair bill (~1k each, so 12k), food for the run, soul gems etc and we're talking around 200k a good run, 300k plus on a bad run. Trials would have to drop 20k worth of "undaunted plunder" to be just be a 3.5k profit per run. So I'm hoping its more like 30 to 50k. Even then it's still a lower gold/hour profit than borderline any other farm in the game.
My concern is potions... On Xbox NA single alchemy ingredients are going for 400 gold a piece, up from 150 just a month ago. And let's not even talk about Columbine and Namira's rot...
If trials become self sufficient we'll possibly be using a lot more potions, which means even higher prices...
Please ZoS increase alchemy drops, I'm not okay with paying 1000 gold per reagent, because at that point trials once again becomes a profit loss.0 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Regarding Undaunted Plunder:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/292729/the-problem-with-undaunted-plunder-and-the-easy-way-to-fix-it
And potion supply in general:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/289843/please-increase-the-yields-of-alchemical-nodes-and-or-craftingNightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
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GorraShatan✭✭✭✭MrAppleman wrote: »GorraShatan wrote: »MrAppleman wrote: »That actually sounds much nicer given the poor drop rates that can be experienced by some.
I've received maybe 4 BIS pieces from 20+ trial runs that are seleable in guild traders. Most runs result in loss of money and absolutely no good drops. Ive been thinking of running less trials because of this.
For example will I ever need 10 infallible aether necklace. Or eternal yokeda. Sure I can trade with my mates but they also get same loot or lack of.
At least I can make a little gold.
And like the other posts have mentioned you can sell the sets from world.
As others mentioned, the sets from the world will be too common to be valuable.
And now instead of 4 good drops to sell in 20 Trials, you'll get 0.
Okay I feel like you ignored the bulk of my post buddy. I rarely receive a single piece worth selling and just used a lot of potions. Again drop rates are quite low and at end of trial I'm left empty handed. Being able to get something back is a benefit.
Out of 30+ vet hel Ra runs not a single divines sun piece or sun ring.
Out of 30+ vet AA runs one necroptence ring, not a single divines necroptence piece.
Some of this gear I'd like to keep for myself as well, so I would need duplicate drops to make money.
I am tired of spending time and resources and getting nothing.
Maybe your drop rates are better than mine but I'd rather make 3000-5000 gold per trial than ZERO gold.
I absolutely read it - which is why I used your numbers.
I'm not complaining about the Undaunted loot. I'm just saying that without these great drops to sell, the economy suffers, as no one is going to be buying or selling anything of that value.
The reality is that the price of these items is dictated by how willing people are to run trials to get them. So it's the high cost of running trials that dictates the high price for Trials gear.0 -
Prof_Bawbag✭✭✭✭✭
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Wow, I didn't realise the price of reagents were so high. I've unwittingly been sitting on a small fortune. I have around 270 columbine and numerous other in demand plants if the thread you linked is to be believed.
I only struggle to get keep those ones required for writs. Hell, i have so much I usually pass most by other than the ones i need for those aforementioned writs. Will be flooding my guild store with this tomorrow. Edited by Prof_Bawbag on September 30, 2016 11:44PM0 -
Nirnrotten✭✭✭The change to BoP is not going to hurt the economy. I mean only the 1% can afford to buy Gold Trial gear, and the RNG for the raiders is horrible. So gear that is very rare, and very expensive will no longer be sold in guild traders. I fail to see how this will cause an ESO depression.
Play the content. Support ESO!0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoMoreChillies wrote: »Bind on Pickup is cancer
it will ruin many good things
Nah it wont.
It'll mean you cant be lazy.0 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »NoMoreChillies wrote: »Bind on Pickup is cancer
it will ruin many good things
Nah it wont.
It'll mean you cant be lazy.
Yeah I'm really lazy when I go to the store and pick up some bread milk and cheese. I should really have a cow and a wheat field in my backyard and make my own.
The economy is a crucial and fun part of the game. There is nothing lazy about buying gear and there is something extremely fun about diving into dungeons, fighting bosses and finding valuable loot you can sell on the market. The excitement is palpable in Teamspeak when a guildie finds a rare piece of gear that will sell for a lot.
How are you going to get excited about a random bound article, lets call it "Golden Celestial Serpent Dung" that's BOP, no 3d model, just a tiny icon with a line of flavor text and you just sell it to a vendor and get 1000 gold when finding a rare set piece could make you 500k gold?
BOP cheapens the experience of being in an MMO and makes the game less social. I'm OK with some of the best or unique sets being BOP as a reward for conquering challenging content (e.g. VO, IA, Monster helms, masters/maelstrom weapons). But that should be it!
ZOS never asked us our opinion. They just arbitrarily took half the gear that has been in the game since launch (like warlock) and made it BOP if it drops in a dungeon.
The fun of making money by finding gear and selling is is over. BOP flavor text icons only worth 1kg arent going to make up for it. This was a terrible choice and like @NoMoreChillies said, it does ruin things.Edited by Yolokin_Swagonborn on October 1, 2016 2:08AM0 -
alexkdd99✭✭✭✭✭
✭MrAppleman wrote: »GorraShatan wrote: »MrAppleman wrote: »That actually sounds much nicer given the poor drop rates that can be experienced by some.
I've received maybe 4 BIS pieces from 20+ trial runs that are seleable in guild traders. Most runs result in loss of money and absolutely no good drops. Ive been thinking of running less trials because of this.
For example will I ever need 10 infallible aether necklace. Or eternal yokeda. Sure I can trade with my mates but they also get same loot or lack of.
At least I can make a little gold.
And like the other posts have mentioned you can sell the sets from world.
As others mentioned, the sets from the world will be too common to be valuable.
And now instead of 4 good drops to sell in 20 Trials, you'll get 0.
Okay I feel like you ignored the bulk of my post buddy. I rarely receive a single piece worth selling and just used a lot of potions. Again drop rates are quite low and at end of trial I'm left empty handed. Being able to get something back is a benefit.
Out of 30+ vet hel Ra runs not a single divines sun piece or sun ring.
Out of 30+ vet AA runs one necroptence ring, not a single divines necroptence piece.
Some of this gear I'd like to keep for myself as well, so I would need duplicate drops to make money.
I am tired of spending time and resources and getting nothing.
Maybe your drop rates are better than mine but I'd rather make 3000-5000 gold per trial than ZERO gold.
It does not have to be divines to net gold. Divines will net more gold. If you run trials as much as you say then you should be getting stuff to sell. Do you run it on normal or vet? Good jewelry sells for good amount.
Maybe instead of making it all bop they can do the opposite and make it all boe. That way those infallible aether and viscous ophidia pieces will actually be worth something.
I very rarely run trials but when I do, I almost always pull something I can make a little gold from. But then again I am not a hoarder and keep everything until I get duplicate.
I wonder where they got the bright idea to make it bop. I never saw anyone ask for it or anything of the sort. Actually I have only seen people ask for the opposite, really makes no sense why they want to do this.0 -
freespirit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I'm a terrible hoarder so I rarely sell any of my dungeon/trials drops BUT @ZoS what on earth were you thinking??
People run this content to hopefully get something good to sell!
Why on earth was it necessary to remove their ability to do so?
I truly cannot understand this decision and consequently have to say it's a really, really bad one!!
When people say to me........
"You're going to regret that in the morning"
I sleep until midday cos I'm a problem solver!0 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭freespirit wrote: »I'm a terrible hoarder so I rarely sell any of my dungeon/trials drops BUT @ZoS what on earth were you thinking??
People run this content to hopefully get something good to sell!
Why on earth was it necessary to remove their ability to do so?
I truly cannot understand this decision and consequently have to say it's a really, really bad one!!
Bet you are going to love it when some of the unbound gear you painstakingly collected auto-binds to you next patch.
ZOS has yet to confirm what will happen if for example, you have an unbound piece of warlock set in your inventory, since the set is bound next patch.0