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Proposed Blackrose change
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Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »You are forgetting one thing. You get Magicka back while blocking but not stamina. Stamina PvP heavy armor builds need this to sustain.
You dont know 1 thing. There will be s&b ulti that allows You to block dmg by 7 seconds when You dont hold block so You can charge 3-4 heavy attacks to restore stamina while ulti is active and with blackrose You get stamina from 0 to 100% during this 7 seconds and You can even use s&b skills because 1 of morphs reduce that skill line costs by 100%. and this ulti cost is 100 which means that wirh blodspawn and heroic slash it'll take like 15 seconds to charge it again. So You click utli after 7 seconds You start to holding block and after 8 seconds You click ulti again. You still think Black Rose is so needed?
Meanwhile you get a 2h ultimate that will not only ignore all resistance the tank had to build around but also get it yourself for 6 seconds, giving you more substain, more damage, more manoeuvrability and even more armor. People who think that black rose or heavy armor is OP just don't know how to fight them. This is no surprise when they expect to oneshot everyone they attack.
as for me better fast, very fast fights than hours of only 1 fight because of sustain builds0 -
MalakithAlamahdi✭✭✭✭✭MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »You are forgetting one thing. You get Magicka back while blocking but not stamina. Stamina PvP heavy armor builds need this to sustain.
You dont know 1 thing. There will be s&b ulti that allows You to block dmg by 7 seconds when You dont hold block so You can charge 3-4 heavy attacks to restore stamina while ulti is active and with blackrose You get stamina from 0 to 100% during this 7 seconds and You can even use s&b skills because 1 of morphs reduce that skill line costs by 100%. and this ulti cost is 100 which means that wirh blodspawn and heroic slash it'll take like 15 seconds to charge it again. So You click utli after 7 seconds You start to holding block and after 8 seconds You click ulti again. You still think Black Rose is so needed?
Meanwhile you get a 2h ultimate that will not only ignore all resistance the tank had to build around but also get it yourself for 6 seconds, giving you more substain, more damage, more manoeuvrability and even more armor. People who think that black rose or heavy armor is OP just don't know how to fight them. This is no surprise when they expect to oneshot everyone they attack.
as for me better fast, very fast fights than hours of only 1 fight because of sustain builds
You can always walk away from a tank, if he takes so little damage that you can't kill them, theb he'll probably hit like a wet noodle.0 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »You are forgetting one thing. You get Magicka back while blocking but not stamina. Stamina PvP heavy armor builds need this to sustain.
You dont know 1 thing. There will be s&b ulti that allows You to block dmg by 7 seconds when You dont hold block so You can charge 3-4 heavy attacks to restore stamina while ulti is active and with blackrose You get stamina from 0 to 100% during this 7 seconds and You can even use s&b skills because 1 of morphs reduce that skill line costs by 100%. and this ulti cost is 100 which means that wirh blodspawn and heroic slash it'll take like 15 seconds to charge it again. So You click utli after 7 seconds You start to holding block and after 8 seconds You click ulti again. You still think Black Rose is so needed?
Meanwhile you get a 2h ultimate that will not only ignore all resistance the tank had to build around but also get it yourself for 6 seconds, giving you more substain, more damage, more manoeuvrability and even more armor. People who think that black rose or heavy armor is OP just don't know how to fight them. This is no surprise when they expect to oneshot everyone they attack.
as for me better fast, very fast fights than hours of only 1 fight because of sustain builds
You can always walk away from a tank, if he takes so little damage that you can't kill them, theb he'll probably hit like a wet noodle.
yes I can, but no always Im able to do this because or he as tank have still good burst, he will chase me always because he want to kill me for all price or I dont have any other way without passing through him on the way or Im to stubborn to burst him
and then before I kill him or run away seeing this is pointelss for me then just zerg or his help is comming for my unlucky ._. 0 -
MalakithAlamahdi✭✭✭✭✭MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »You are forgetting one thing. You get Magicka back while blocking but not stamina. Stamina PvP heavy armor builds need this to sustain.
You dont know 1 thing. There will be s&b ulti that allows You to block dmg by 7 seconds when You dont hold block so You can charge 3-4 heavy attacks to restore stamina while ulti is active and with blackrose You get stamina from 0 to 100% during this 7 seconds and You can even use s&b skills because 1 of morphs reduce that skill line costs by 100%. and this ulti cost is 100 which means that wirh blodspawn and heroic slash it'll take like 15 seconds to charge it again. So You click utli after 7 seconds You start to holding block and after 8 seconds You click ulti again. You still think Black Rose is so needed?
Meanwhile you get a 2h ultimate that will not only ignore all resistance the tank had to build around but also get it yourself for 6 seconds, giving you more substain, more damage, more manoeuvrability and even more armor. People who think that black rose or heavy armor is OP just don't know how to fight them. This is no surprise when they expect to oneshot everyone they attack.
as for me better fast, very fast fights than hours of only 1 fight because of sustain builds
You can always walk away from a tank, if he takes so little damage that you can't kill them, theb he'll probably hit like a wet noodle.
yes I can, but no always Im able to do this because or he as tank have still good burst, he will chase me always because he want to kill me for all price or I dont have any other way without passing through him on the way or Im to stubborn to burst him and then before I kill him or run away seeing this is pointelss for me then just zerg or his help is comming for my unlucky ._.
Haha, yea, that happens quite often. However I do think it's good to have builds like this, this game really needs the variety. Having only oneshot builds is no fun for me. I think black rose is fine the way it is, I hate fighting a templar with malubeth and reactive a lot more, they just never drop!1 -
Cronopoly✭✭✭✭✭MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »Haha, yea, that happens quite often. However I do think it's good to have builds like this, this game really needs the variety. Having only oneshot builds is no fun for me. I think black rose is fine the way it is, I hate fighting a templar with malubeth and reactive a lot more, they just never drop!
Exactly, I use Black Rose and it's my only elite set. Used more for sustain, not burst. I'm not one shotting anyone. Like you said, the poster is arguing because he cannot DPS down a specific TANK like everyone else wearing Medium, and laughably Light Armor.
So one specific use case equals "it must be nerfed". Yet there are plenty of Medium armor targets out there in PVP....many targets you'd think it was strong or something...
1 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »You are forgetting one thing. You get Magicka back while blocking but not stamina. Stamina PvP heavy armor builds need this to sustain.
You dont know 1 thing. There will be s&b ulti that allows You to block dmg by 7 seconds when You dont hold block so You can charge 3-4 heavy attacks to restore stamina while ulti is active and with blackrose You get stamina from 0 to 100% during this 7 seconds and You can even use s&b skills because 1 of morphs reduce that skill line costs by 100%. and this ulti cost is 100 which means that wirh blodspawn and heroic slash it'll take like 15 seconds to charge it again. So You click utli after 7 seconds You start to holding block and after 8 seconds You click ulti again. You still think Black Rose is so needed?
Meanwhile you get a 2h ultimate that will not only ignore all resistance the tank had to build around but also get it yourself for 6 seconds, giving you more substain, more damage, more manoeuvrability and even more armor. People who think that black rose or heavy armor is OP just don't know how to fight them. This is no surprise when they expect to oneshot everyone they attack.
as for me better fast, very fast fights than hours of only 1 fight because of sustain builds
You can always walk away from a tank, if he takes so little damage that you can't kill them, theb he'll probably hit like a wet noodle.
yes I can, but no always Im able to do this because or he as tank have still good burst, he will chase me always because he want to kill me for all price or I dont have any other way without passing through him on the way or Im to stubborn to burst him and then before I kill him or run away seeing this is pointelss for me then just zerg or his help is comming for my unlucky ._.
Haha, yea, that happens quite often. However I do think it's good to have builds like this, this game really needs the variety. Having only oneshot builds is no fun for me. I think black rose is fine the way it is, I hate fighting a templar with malubeth and reactive a lot more, they just never drop!
as I wrote before...im not sure about black rose :P maybe something in heavyr armor..but sure is it when dps crafting gear to dps, like hunding etc in heavy arom, then he have this sustaim + still is able to hit hard, this is the problem here on heavy armor dps pvp0 -
MalakithAlamahdi✭✭✭✭✭MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »You are forgetting one thing. You get Magicka back while blocking but not stamina. Stamina PvP heavy armor builds need this to sustain.
You dont know 1 thing. There will be s&b ulti that allows You to block dmg by 7 seconds when You dont hold block so You can charge 3-4 heavy attacks to restore stamina while ulti is active and with blackrose You get stamina from 0 to 100% during this 7 seconds and You can even use s&b skills because 1 of morphs reduce that skill line costs by 100%. and this ulti cost is 100 which means that wirh blodspawn and heroic slash it'll take like 15 seconds to charge it again. So You click utli after 7 seconds You start to holding block and after 8 seconds You click ulti again. You still think Black Rose is so needed?
Meanwhile you get a 2h ultimate that will not only ignore all resistance the tank had to build around but also get it yourself for 6 seconds, giving you more substain, more damage, more manoeuvrability and even more armor. People who think that black rose or heavy armor is OP just don't know how to fight them. This is no surprise when they expect to oneshot everyone they attack.
as for me better fast, very fast fights than hours of only 1 fight because of sustain builds
You can always walk away from a tank, if he takes so little damage that you can't kill them, theb he'll probably hit like a wet noodle.
yes I can, but no always Im able to do this because or he as tank have still good burst, he will chase me always because he want to kill me for all price or I dont have any other way without passing through him on the way or Im to stubborn to burst him and then before I kill him or run away seeing this is pointelss for me then just zerg or his help is comming for my unlucky ._.
Haha, yea, that happens quite often. However I do think it's good to have builds like this, this game really needs the variety. Having only oneshot builds is no fun for me. I think black rose is fine the way it is, I hate fighting a templar with malubeth and reactive a lot more, they just never drop!
as I wrote before...im not sure about black rose :P maybe something in heavyr armor..but sure is it when dps crafting gear to dps, like hunding etc in heavy arom, then he have this sustaim + still is able to hit hard, this is the problem here on heavy armor dps pvp
Dps sets arent really that good in HA, since you lack the penetration and raw weapon damage medium would give you. Especially for magicka classes since the weapons used with heavy armor only have stamina skills, and you'll require the stamina to block. The substain from heavy armor alone isn't enough either to out recourse a proper damage build, as it gives reduced cost or actual regen bonus. You still need to invest in a lot of regen since your abilities will cost more, resulting in a lower stamina or magicka pool which will also lower your damage.
The only class it can be annoying on is a templar because it gives bonuses to healing resieved and they already have passives that make them block more damage. On a DK it's annoying because they can live long enough to generate ultimate which will also give them resources back. Though their damage will be a lot lower then with 5 medium/ light and 2 heavy. OP and a lot of others on this post are just mad they have to work for a kill instead of oneshotting them from stealth. But like I said, I'm not surprised by this because they got so used to it that they lack the skill or build to have an actual fight.
I have 2 heavy armor characters and the only way they kill is by keeping pressure on the enemy, while my light armor Templar bursts them down after a stun in 2 seconds with almost 5k spell damage.
Heavy armor only gives 400 extra damage, which needs to build up during the fight. Meanwhile it doesn't have the penetration and crit of medium and light, and they give more damage as a passive already. Even with fury set stacked 20 times I don't get past 3.5k, something a damage build can easily get past of.Edited by MalakithAlamahdi on September 14, 2016 1:48PM2 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »You are forgetting one thing. You get Magicka back while blocking but not stamina. Stamina PvP heavy armor builds need this to sustain.
You dont know 1 thing. There will be s&b ulti that allows You to block dmg by 7 seconds when You dont hold block so You can charge 3-4 heavy attacks to restore stamina while ulti is active and with blackrose You get stamina from 0 to 100% during this 7 seconds and You can even use s&b skills because 1 of morphs reduce that skill line costs by 100%. and this ulti cost is 100 which means that wirh blodspawn and heroic slash it'll take like 15 seconds to charge it again. So You click utli after 7 seconds You start to holding block and after 8 seconds You click ulti again. You still think Black Rose is so needed?
Meanwhile you get a 2h ultimate that will not only ignore all resistance the tank had to build around but also get it yourself for 6 seconds, giving you more substain, more damage, more manoeuvrability and even more armor. People who think that black rose or heavy armor is OP just don't know how to fight them. This is no surprise when they expect to oneshot everyone they attack.
as for me better fast, very fast fights than hours of only 1 fight because of sustain builds
You can always walk away from a tank, if he takes so little damage that you can't kill them, theb he'll probably hit like a wet noodle.
yes I can, but no always Im able to do this because or he as tank have still good burst, he will chase me always because he want to kill me for all price or I dont have any other way without passing through him on the way or Im to stubborn to burst him and then before I kill him or run away seeing this is pointelss for me then just zerg or his help is comming for my unlucky ._.
Haha, yea, that happens quite often. However I do think it's good to have builds like this, this game really needs the variety. Having only oneshot builds is no fun for me. I think black rose is fine the way it is, I hate fighting a templar with malubeth and reactive a lot more, they just never drop!
as I wrote before...im not sure about black rose :P maybe something in heavyr armor..but sure is it when dps crafting gear to dps, like hunding etc in heavy arom, then he have this sustaim + still is able to hit hard, this is the problem here on heavy armor dps pvp
Dps sets arent really that good in HA, since you lack the penetration and raw weapon damage medium would give you. Especially for magicka classes since the weapons used with heavy armor only have stamina skills, and you'll require the stamina to block. The substain from heavy armor alone isn't enough either to out recourse a proper damage build, as it gives reduced cost or actual regen bonus. You still need to invest in a lot of regen since your abilities will cost more, resulting in a lower stamina or magicka pool which will also lower your damage.
The only class it can be annoying on is a templar because it gives bonuses to healing resieved and they already have passives that make them block more damage. On a DK it's annoying because they can live long enough to generate ultimate which will also give them resources back. Though their damage will be a lot lower then with 5 medium/ light and 2 heavy. OP and a lot of others on this post are just mad they have to work for a kill instead of oneshotting them from stealth. But like I said, I'm not surprised by this because they got so used to it that they lack the skill or build to have an actual fight.
I have 2 heavy armor characters and the only way they kill is by keeping pressure on the enemy, while my light armor Templar bursts them down after a stun in 2 seconds with almost 5k spell damage.
Heavy armor only gives 400 extra damage, which needs to build up during the fight. Meanwhile it doesn't have the penetration and crit of medium and light, and they give more damage as a passive already. Even with fury set stacked 20 times I don't get past 3.5k, something a damage build can easily get past of.
hmm, maybe here is this my problem when I hate all heavy armor wearers, Im not the best player but almost all dk, templars what I meed are in heavu and not only have very high survivability they still can hit me hard and its end for me...when I meed in light/medium templar or dk they are hitting me no more stronger then in heavy but then I have easier to them so ok....but this 1 prblem is here...those in medium/light are hitting not much stronger than in heavy...they in heaby hitting strong + very hard is to kill them, here is problem to balance on these classes as I see0 -
kadar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »The_Outsider wrote: »I used the Armor ov the Black Rose instead of a crafted set once I hit 160!
Being Purple quality and already Enchanted was a huge plus for me as a newer player
If I had Agility jewelry - and I plan on acquiring my own rather than trading for it (probably next patch, but new sets to consider then as well) - I feel my power would have been even greater! Maybe for next time!
I did not have enough traits to craft Morkuldin but I have seen very good players using that one!
Some ov the strongest players I have encountered were Magicka sorcerers!
Check out my Black Rose in action in the last video I posted!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJsP51fhBH4
Please tell me this video wasn't serious? Most of the players were pretty much non existant in CP level.... music was as cheesey as this set is.... and you pretty much clearly displayed how a player with little skill can be somewhat successful in meta gear :') like you are aware that vigor is a heal over time right? And that casting ability again 1 second into abilities duration does nothing more than reapply the healing effect of the ability. You literally casted vigor 4 times in a row at one point. Cast it once and then reapply towards end of abilties duration.... not 1 second in lol. Pretty much proved original posters point.
Yikes. Bash the random new player who honestly wants to contribute to the community and discussion. Why don't you just call him bad and ask to "1v1 me, bro?" ...Really?
@RobTheAxe , cool video. That's my favorite thing about the tel var sets atm too. Drop 25k stones and get a full 5 piece in purple quality with all impen traits. No need to screw around with RNG. Pretty good deal.
Concerning the OP: I made it through almost all the posts here and it's seems like people aren't really getting what the OP is saying. Black Rose is not OP. Heavy Armor is not OP.
Stamina DPS builds running Black Rose for it's insane sustainability while taking a very small hit to damage is OP. It's clear that many of you posting have not run into one of these players in actual combat and are trying to judge this issue on paper alone. Trust me, Black Rose run in the above manner is very strong, imo.
That's just nonsense.
HA should provide no more than 8% to 15% (max) resistance than medium. It WILL provides less stamina than medium.
No "pro" player will have any difficulty dealin with a set that provides only resource return.
NB should be hitting for 6 to 8k SA on any heavy wearer and 12k incap strikes. Templar should have RD hitting around that same zone. WB should be landing for 8k minimum. Same with leap (but DKs can have a 12k + heavy attack)
If you're opponents are DPS and NOT reaching these numbers, they are not top tier. If you are a pure dps and not hitting this numbers, you are not Top Tier.
Top Tier laughs at the idea of 4 seconds passing and an opponent not dead or dying.
No dps build worth its salt is running black rose for burst.
If you're top tier, and stam you know exactly what sets provide 20k+ burst, and it ain't black rose.
Based on the response, I'm guessing you'd fall into the category that I described above.
The other thing is an exaggeration of numbers make a point... 6 to 8k SA on someone in HA? My Stamina NB wears 7 Medium with 5 Impen and I've never taken a SA higher than 6k. I play PC NA on Haderus and TF, and I'd say we have some pretty "pro" players as you describe them. I've even dueled a few players that are widely considered quite good.
Perhaps you've taken hits like that w/o much Impen, or Impen is not as prevalent on Xbox, Idk.
I know for a fact that certain well known players are running/have run Black rose in at least 5 heavy on their DPS builds. I've met them in combat. I don't see what quoting arbitrary numbers of what attacks should be hitting for in your opinion adds to the discussion.
...How? Black Rose actually has more stam than most medium sets out there.It [HA]WILL provides less stamina than medium.2 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The_Outsider wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »The_Outsider wrote: »I used the Armor ov the Black Rose instead of a crafted set once I hit 160!
Being Purple quality and already Enchanted was a huge plus for me as a newer player
If I had Agility jewelry - and I plan on acquiring my own rather than trading for it (probably next patch, but new sets to consider then as well) - I feel my power would have been even greater! Maybe for next time!
I did not have enough traits to craft Morkuldin but I have seen very good players using that one!
Some ov the strongest players I have encountered were Magicka sorcerers!
Check out my Black Rose in action in the last video I posted!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJsP51fhBH4
Please tell me this video wasn't serious? Most of the players were pretty much non existant in CP level.... music was as cheesey as this set is.... and you pretty much clearly displayed how a player with little skill can be somewhat successful in meta gear :') like you are aware that vigor is a heal over time right? And that casting ability again 1 second into abilities duration does nothing more than reapply the healing effect of the ability. You literally casted vigor 4 times in a row at one point. Cast it once and then reapply towards end of abilties duration.... not 1 second in lol. Pretty much proved original posters point.
Yikes. Bash the random new player who honestly wants to contribute to the community and discussion. Why don't you just call him bad and ask to "1v1 me, bro?" ...Really?
@RobTheAxe , cool video. That's my favorite thing about the tel var sets atm too. Drop 25k stones and get a full 5 piece in purple quality with all impen traits. No need to screw around with RNG. Pretty good deal.
Concerning the OP: I made it through almost all the posts here and it's seems like people aren't really getting what the OP is saying. Black Rose is not OP. Heavy Armor is not OP.
Stamina DPS builds running Black Rose for it's insane sustainability while taking a very small hit to damage is OP. It's clear that many of you posting have not run into one of these players in actual combat and are trying to judge this issue on paper alone. Trust me, Black Rose run in the above manner is very strong, imo.
That's just nonsense.
HA should provide no more than 8% to 15% (max) resistance than medium. It WILL provides less stamina than medium.
No "pro" player will have any difficulty dealin with a set that provides only resource return.
NB should be hitting for 6 to 8k SA on any heavy wearer and 12k incap strikes. Templar should have RD hitting around that same zone. WB should be landing for 8k minimum. Same with leap (but DKs can have a 12k + heavy attack)
If you're opponents are DPS and NOT reaching these numbers, they are not top tier. If you are a pure dps and not hitting this numbers, you are not Top Tier.
Top Tier laughs at the idea of 4 seconds passing and an opponent not dead or dying.
No dps build worth its salt is running black rose for burst.
If you're top tier, and stam you know exactly what sets provide 20k+ burst, and it ain't black rose.
Based on the response, I'm guessing you'd fall into the category that I described above.
The other thing is an exaggeration of numbers make a point... 6 to 8k SA on someone in HA? My Stamina NB wears 7 Medium with 5 Impen and I've never taken a SA higher than 6k. I play PC NA on Haderus and TF, and I'd say we have some pretty "pro" players as you describe them. I've even dueled a few players that are widely considered quite good.
Perhaps you've taken hits like that w/o much Impen, or Impen is not as prevalent on Xbox, Idk.
I know for a fact that certain well known players are running/have run Black rose in at least 5 heavy on their DPS builds. I've met them in combat. I don't see what quoting arbitrary numbers of what attacks should be hitting for in your opinion adds to the discussion.
...How? Black Rose actually has more stam than most medium sets out there.It [HA]WILL provides less stamina than medium.
@The_Outsider - I wish I had taken screen shots of the players im talking about. NA Xbox thornblade and not skeleton key but the other skull associated name (can't remember atm)
But these numbers are not just outta my but. I wear heavy armor, 5 impen pieces. And yeah the base hit is 6k for the templar im thinking of and the minimum for 3 NBs i can think of. (Red players, I would recognize the names if I saw them again)
These players do hit that hard. One (faced him many times now) is so fast it always health desyncs me
You may not have encountered such players, and they are the minority, but they do exist. Top Tier is by definition a small minority.0 -
Zeuq✭✭✭Revert the heavy armor changes please ZoS.Zeúq - Magicka Dragonknight DC
Zeuq - Stamina Dragonknight DC
Reyals (Previously Hugh Heffner) - Stamina Nightblade EP
Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_VKMbppimZeaSNG4S_1-KQ1 -
kadar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »The_Outsider wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »The_Outsider wrote: »I used the Armor ov the Black Rose instead of a crafted set once I hit 160!
Being Purple quality and already Enchanted was a huge plus for me as a newer player
If I had Agility jewelry - and I plan on acquiring my own rather than trading for it (probably next patch, but new sets to consider then as well) - I feel my power would have been even greater! Maybe for next time!
I did not have enough traits to craft Morkuldin but I have seen very good players using that one!
Some ov the strongest players I have encountered were Magicka sorcerers!
Check out my Black Rose in action in the last video I posted!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJsP51fhBH4
Please tell me this video wasn't serious? Most of the players were pretty much non existant in CP level.... music was as cheesey as this set is.... and you pretty much clearly displayed how a player with little skill can be somewhat successful in meta gear :') like you are aware that vigor is a heal over time right? And that casting ability again 1 second into abilities duration does nothing more than reapply the healing effect of the ability. You literally casted vigor 4 times in a row at one point. Cast it once and then reapply towards end of abilties duration.... not 1 second in lol. Pretty much proved original posters point.
Yikes. Bash the random new player who honestly wants to contribute to the community and discussion. Why don't you just call him bad and ask to "1v1 me, bro?" ...Really?
@RobTheAxe , cool video. That's my favorite thing about the tel var sets atm too. Drop 25k stones and get a full 5 piece in purple quality with all impen traits. No need to screw around with RNG. Pretty good deal.
Concerning the OP: I made it through almost all the posts here and it's seems like people aren't really getting what the OP is saying. Black Rose is not OP. Heavy Armor is not OP.
Stamina DPS builds running Black Rose for it's insane sustainability while taking a very small hit to damage is OP. It's clear that many of you posting have not run into one of these players in actual combat and are trying to judge this issue on paper alone. Trust me, Black Rose run in the above manner is very strong, imo.
That's just nonsense.
HA should provide no more than 8% to 15% (max) resistance than medium. It WILL provides less stamina than medium.
No "pro" player will have any difficulty dealin with a set that provides only resource return.
NB should be hitting for 6 to 8k SA on any heavy wearer and 12k incap strikes. Templar should have RD hitting around that same zone. WB should be landing for 8k minimum. Same with leap (but DKs can have a 12k + heavy attack)
If you're opponents are DPS and NOT reaching these numbers, they are not top tier. If you are a pure dps and not hitting this numbers, you are not Top Tier.
Top Tier laughs at the idea of 4 seconds passing and an opponent not dead or dying.
No dps build worth its salt is running black rose for burst.
If you're top tier, and stam you know exactly what sets provide 20k+ burst, and it ain't black rose.
Based on the response, I'm guessing you'd fall into the category that I described above.
The other thing is an exaggeration of numbers make a point... 6 to 8k SA on someone in HA? My Stamina NB wears 7 Medium with 5 Impen and I've never taken a SA higher than 6k. I play PC NA on Haderus and TF, and I'd say we have some pretty "pro" players as you describe them. I've even dueled a few players that are widely considered quite good.
Perhaps you've taken hits like that w/o much Impen, or Impen is not as prevalent on Xbox, Idk.
I know for a fact that certain well known players are running/have run Black rose in at least 5 heavy on their DPS builds. I've met them in combat. I don't see what quoting arbitrary numbers of what attacks should be hitting for in your opinion adds to the discussion.
...How? Black Rose actually has more stam than most medium sets out there.It [HA]WILL provides less stamina than medium.
@The_Outsider - I wish I had taken screen shots of the players im talking about. NA Xbox thornblade and not skeleton key but the other skull associated name (can't remember atm)
But these numbers are not just outta my but. I wear heavy armor, 5 impen pieces. And yeah the base hit is 6k for the templar im thinking of and the minimum for 3 NBs i can think of. (Red players, I would recognize the names if I saw them again)
These players do hit that hard. One (faced him many times now) is so fast it always health desyncs me
You may not have encountered such players, and they are the minority, but they do exist. Top Tier is by definition a small minority.
I've never experienced numbers like that, but it could simply be a difference of platform as well. I've noticed quite a few dps build videos from console that stack damage stats extremely high (last one I watched had 4300 weap dmg/39k stam and 700 recovery), where many of the top tier players on my server are bit more balanced (e.g. Kodi's stam Templar build have ~1800 stamina recovery). I'm confident that glass cannons can reach those numbers, but I've found (again at least where I play), "top tier" players are typically not glass cannons.
Anyway, the point of my comment was to clarify what the OP is actually talking about. There's a bunch of comments in the thread arguing points that were never made. If I wasn't so focused on my PVE build atm I just might go play a Black Rose build and prove myself right or wrong.Edited by kadar on September 16, 2016 12:05AM0 -
MalakithAlamahdi✭✭✭✭✭MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »You are forgetting one thing. You get Magicka back while blocking but not stamina. Stamina PvP heavy armor builds need this to sustain.
You dont know 1 thing. There will be s&b ulti that allows You to block dmg by 7 seconds when You dont hold block so You can charge 3-4 heavy attacks to restore stamina while ulti is active and with blackrose You get stamina from 0 to 100% during this 7 seconds and You can even use s&b skills because 1 of morphs reduce that skill line costs by 100%. and this ulti cost is 100 which means that wirh blodspawn and heroic slash it'll take like 15 seconds to charge it again. So You click utli after 7 seconds You start to holding block and after 8 seconds You click ulti again. You still think Black Rose is so needed?
Meanwhile you get a 2h ultimate that will not only ignore all resistance the tank had to build around but also get it yourself for 6 seconds, giving you more substain, more damage, more manoeuvrability and even more armor. People who think that black rose or heavy armor is OP just don't know how to fight them. This is no surprise when they expect to oneshot everyone they attack.
as for me better fast, very fast fights than hours of only 1 fight because of sustain builds
You can always walk away from a tank, if he takes so little damage that you can't kill them, theb he'll probably hit like a wet noodle.
yes I can, but no always Im able to do this because or he as tank have still good burst, he will chase me always because he want to kill me for all price or I dont have any other way without passing through him on the way or Im to stubborn to burst him and then before I kill him or run away seeing this is pointelss for me then just zerg or his help is comming for my unlucky ._.
Haha, yea, that happens quite often. However I do think it's good to have builds like this, this game really needs the variety. Having only oneshot builds is no fun for me. I think black rose is fine the way it is, I hate fighting a templar with malubeth and reactive a lot more, they just never drop!
as I wrote before...im not sure about black rose :P maybe something in heavyr armor..but sure is it when dps crafting gear to dps, like hunding etc in heavy arom, then he have this sustaim + still is able to hit hard, this is the problem here on heavy armor dps pvp
Dps sets arent really that good in HA, since you lack the penetration and raw weapon damage medium would give you. Especially for magicka classes since the weapons used with heavy armor only have stamina skills, and you'll require the stamina to block. The substain from heavy armor alone isn't enough either to out recourse a proper damage build, as it gives reduced cost or actual regen bonus. You still need to invest in a lot of regen since your abilities will cost more, resulting in a lower stamina or magicka pool which will also lower your damage.
The only class it can be annoying on is a templar because it gives bonuses to healing resieved and they already have passives that make them block more damage. On a DK it's annoying because they can live long enough to generate ultimate which will also give them resources back. Though their damage will be a lot lower then with 5 medium/ light and 2 heavy. OP and a lot of others on this post are just mad they have to work for a kill instead of oneshotting them from stealth. But like I said, I'm not surprised by this because they got so used to it that they lack the skill or build to have an actual fight.
I have 2 heavy armor characters and the only way they kill is by keeping pressure on the enemy, while my light armor Templar bursts them down after a stun in 2 seconds with almost 5k spell damage.
Heavy armor only gives 400 extra damage, which needs to build up during the fight. Meanwhile it doesn't have the penetration and crit of medium and light, and they give more damage as a passive already. Even with fury set stacked 20 times I don't get past 3.5k, something a damage build can easily get past of.
hmm, maybe here is this my problem when I hate all heavy armor wearers, Im not the best player but almost all dk, templars what I meed are in heavu and not only have very high survivability they still can hit me hard and its end for me...when I meed in light/medium templar or dk they are hitting me no more stronger then in heavy but then I have easier to them so ok....but this 1 prblem is here...those in medium/light are hitting not much stronger than in heavy...they in heaby hitting strong + very hard is to kill them, here is problem to balance on these classes as I see
Light armor is pretty bad right now and medium armor is best suited for stealth or agile builds that avoid being hit. Medium and heavy armor seem to be around the same strength now I think, but both requiring a different play style. But light armor is pretty weak compared to the other two. You are very squishy with it so that's why you see the magicka based melee classes (templar, DK) run around in heavy now.0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »You are forgetting one thing. You get Magicka back while blocking but not stamina. Stamina PvP heavy armor builds need this to sustain.
You dont know 1 thing. There will be s&b ulti that allows You to block dmg by 7 seconds when You dont hold block so You can charge 3-4 heavy attacks to restore stamina while ulti is active and with blackrose You get stamina from 0 to 100% during this 7 seconds and You can even use s&b skills because 1 of morphs reduce that skill line costs by 100%. and this ulti cost is 100 which means that wirh blodspawn and heroic slash it'll take like 15 seconds to charge it again. So You click utli after 7 seconds You start to holding block and after 8 seconds You click ulti again. You still think Black Rose is so needed?
Meanwhile you get a 2h ultimate that will not only ignore all resistance the tank had to build around but also get it yourself for 6 seconds, giving you more substain, more damage, more manoeuvrability and even more armor. People who think that black rose or heavy armor is OP just don't know how to fight them. This is no surprise when they expect to oneshot everyone they attack.
as for me better fast, very fast fights than hours of only 1 fight because of sustain builds
You can always walk away from a tank, if he takes so little damage that you can't kill them, theb he'll probably hit like a wet noodle.
yes I can, but no always Im able to do this because or he as tank have still good burst, he will chase me always because he want to kill me for all price or I dont have any other way without passing through him on the way or Im to stubborn to burst him and then before I kill him or run away seeing this is pointelss for me then just zerg or his help is comming for my unlucky ._.
Haha, yea, that happens quite often. However I do think it's good to have builds like this, this game really needs the variety. Having only oneshot builds is no fun for me. I think black rose is fine the way it is, I hate fighting a templar with malubeth and reactive a lot more, they just never drop!
as I wrote before...im not sure about black rose :P maybe something in heavyr armor..but sure is it when dps crafting gear to dps, like hunding etc in heavy arom, then he have this sustaim + still is able to hit hard, this is the problem here on heavy armor dps pvp
Dps sets arent really that good in HA, since you lack the penetration and raw weapon damage medium would give you. Especially for magicka classes since the weapons used with heavy armor only have stamina skills, and you'll require the stamina to block. The substain from heavy armor alone isn't enough either to out recourse a proper damage build, as it gives reduced cost or actual regen bonus. You still need to invest in a lot of regen since your abilities will cost more, resulting in a lower stamina or magicka pool which will also lower your damage.
The only class it can be annoying on is a templar because it gives bonuses to healing resieved and they already have passives that make them block more damage. On a DK it's annoying because they can live long enough to generate ultimate which will also give them resources back. Though their damage will be a lot lower then with 5 medium/ light and 2 heavy. OP and a lot of others on this post are just mad they have to work for a kill instead of oneshotting them from stealth. But like I said, I'm not surprised by this because they got so used to it that they lack the skill or build to have an actual fight.
I have 2 heavy armor characters and the only way they kill is by keeping pressure on the enemy, while my light armor Templar bursts them down after a stun in 2 seconds with almost 5k spell damage.
Heavy armor only gives 400 extra damage, which needs to build up during the fight. Meanwhile it doesn't have the penetration and crit of medium and light, and they give more damage as a passive already. Even with fury set stacked 20 times I don't get past 3.5k, something a damage build can easily get past of.
hmm, maybe here is this my problem when I hate all heavy armor wearers, Im not the best player but almost all dk, templars what I meed are in heavu and not only have very high survivability they still can hit me hard and its end for me...when I meed in light/medium templar or dk they are hitting me no more stronger then in heavy but then I have easier to them so ok....but this 1 prblem is here...those in medium/light are hitting not much stronger than in heavy...they in heaby hitting strong + very hard is to kill them, here is problem to balance on these classes as I see
Light armor is pretty bad right now and medium armor is best suited for stealth or agile builds that avoid being hit. Medium and heavy armor seem to be around the same strength now I think, but both requiring a different play style. But light armor is pretty weak compared to the other two. You are very squishy with it so that's why you see the magicka based melee classes (templar, DK) run around in heavy now.
Heavy armor > Medium for pvp.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
MalakithAlamahdi✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »You are forgetting one thing. You get Magicka back while blocking but not stamina. Stamina PvP heavy armor builds need this to sustain.
You dont know 1 thing. There will be s&b ulti that allows You to block dmg by 7 seconds when You dont hold block so You can charge 3-4 heavy attacks to restore stamina while ulti is active and with blackrose You get stamina from 0 to 100% during this 7 seconds and You can even use s&b skills because 1 of morphs reduce that skill line costs by 100%. and this ulti cost is 100 which means that wirh blodspawn and heroic slash it'll take like 15 seconds to charge it again. So You click utli after 7 seconds You start to holding block and after 8 seconds You click ulti again. You still think Black Rose is so needed?
Meanwhile you get a 2h ultimate that will not only ignore all resistance the tank had to build around but also get it yourself for 6 seconds, giving you more substain, more damage, more manoeuvrability and even more armor. People who think that black rose or heavy armor is OP just don't know how to fight them. This is no surprise when they expect to oneshot everyone they attack.
as for me better fast, very fast fights than hours of only 1 fight because of sustain builds
You can always walk away from a tank, if he takes so little damage that you can't kill them, theb he'll probably hit like a wet noodle.
yes I can, but no always Im able to do this because or he as tank have still good burst, he will chase me always because he want to kill me for all price or I dont have any other way without passing through him on the way or Im to stubborn to burst him and then before I kill him or run away seeing this is pointelss for me then just zerg or his help is comming for my unlucky ._.
Haha, yea, that happens quite often. However I do think it's good to have builds like this, this game really needs the variety. Having only oneshot builds is no fun for me. I think black rose is fine the way it is, I hate fighting a templar with malubeth and reactive a lot more, they just never drop!
as I wrote before...im not sure about black rose :P maybe something in heavyr armor..but sure is it when dps crafting gear to dps, like hunding etc in heavy arom, then he have this sustaim + still is able to hit hard, this is the problem here on heavy armor dps pvp
Dps sets arent really that good in HA, since you lack the penetration and raw weapon damage medium would give you. Especially for magicka classes since the weapons used with heavy armor only have stamina skills, and you'll require the stamina to block. The substain from heavy armor alone isn't enough either to out recourse a proper damage build, as it gives reduced cost or actual regen bonus. You still need to invest in a lot of regen since your abilities will cost more, resulting in a lower stamina or magicka pool which will also lower your damage.
The only class it can be annoying on is a templar because it gives bonuses to healing resieved and they already have passives that make them block more damage. On a DK it's annoying because they can live long enough to generate ultimate which will also give them resources back. Though their damage will be a lot lower then with 5 medium/ light and 2 heavy. OP and a lot of others on this post are just mad they have to work for a kill instead of oneshotting them from stealth. But like I said, I'm not surprised by this because they got so used to it that they lack the skill or build to have an actual fight.
I have 2 heavy armor characters and the only way they kill is by keeping pressure on the enemy, while my light armor Templar bursts them down after a stun in 2 seconds with almost 5k spell damage.
Heavy armor only gives 400 extra damage, which needs to build up during the fight. Meanwhile it doesn't have the penetration and crit of medium and light, and they give more damage as a passive already. Even with fury set stacked 20 times I don't get past 3.5k, something a damage build can easily get past of.
hmm, maybe here is this my problem when I hate all heavy armor wearers, Im not the best player but almost all dk, templars what I meed are in heavu and not only have very high survivability they still can hit me hard and its end for me...when I meed in light/medium templar or dk they are hitting me no more stronger then in heavy but then I have easier to them so ok....but this 1 prblem is here...those in medium/light are hitting not much stronger than in heavy...they in heaby hitting strong + very hard is to kill them, here is problem to balance on these classes as I see
Light armor is pretty bad right now and medium armor is best suited for stealth or agile builds that avoid being hit. Medium and heavy armor seem to be around the same strength now I think, but both requiring a different play style. But light armor is pretty weak compared to the other two. You are very squishy with it so that's why you see the magicka based melee classes (templar, DK) run around in heavy now.
Heavy armor > Medium for pvp.
Dont think so, medium armor is still very effective, it all depends on the situation.0 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »You are forgetting one thing. You get Magicka back while blocking but not stamina. Stamina PvP heavy armor builds need this to sustain.
You dont know 1 thing. There will be s&b ulti that allows You to block dmg by 7 seconds when You dont hold block so You can charge 3-4 heavy attacks to restore stamina while ulti is active and with blackrose You get stamina from 0 to 100% during this 7 seconds and You can even use s&b skills because 1 of morphs reduce that skill line costs by 100%. and this ulti cost is 100 which means that wirh blodspawn and heroic slash it'll take like 15 seconds to charge it again. So You click utli after 7 seconds You start to holding block and after 8 seconds You click ulti again. You still think Black Rose is so needed?
Meanwhile you get a 2h ultimate that will not only ignore all resistance the tank had to build around but also get it yourself for 6 seconds, giving you more substain, more damage, more manoeuvrability and even more armor. People who think that black rose or heavy armor is OP just don't know how to fight them. This is no surprise when they expect to oneshot everyone they attack.
as for me better fast, very fast fights than hours of only 1 fight because of sustain builds
You can always walk away from a tank, if he takes so little damage that you can't kill them, theb he'll probably hit like a wet noodle.
yes I can, but no always Im able to do this because or he as tank have still good burst, he will chase me always because he want to kill me for all price or I dont have any other way without passing through him on the way or Im to stubborn to burst him and then before I kill him or run away seeing this is pointelss for me then just zerg or his help is comming for my unlucky ._.
Haha, yea, that happens quite often. However I do think it's good to have builds like this, this game really needs the variety. Having only oneshot builds is no fun for me. I think black rose is fine the way it is, I hate fighting a templar with malubeth and reactive a lot more, they just never drop!
as I wrote before...im not sure about black rose :P maybe something in heavyr armor..but sure is it when dps crafting gear to dps, like hunding etc in heavy arom, then he have this sustaim + still is able to hit hard, this is the problem here on heavy armor dps pvp
Dps sets arent really that good in HA, since you lack the penetration and raw weapon damage medium would give you. Especially for magicka classes since the weapons used with heavy armor only have stamina skills, and you'll require the stamina to block. The substain from heavy armor alone isn't enough either to out recourse a proper damage build, as it gives reduced cost or actual regen bonus. You still need to invest in a lot of regen since your abilities will cost more, resulting in a lower stamina or magicka pool which will also lower your damage.
The only class it can be annoying on is a templar because it gives bonuses to healing resieved and they already have passives that make them block more damage. On a DK it's annoying because they can live long enough to generate ultimate which will also give them resources back. Though their damage will be a lot lower then with 5 medium/ light and 2 heavy. OP and a lot of others on this post are just mad they have to work for a kill instead of oneshotting them from stealth. But like I said, I'm not surprised by this because they got so used to it that they lack the skill or build to have an actual fight.
I have 2 heavy armor characters and the only way they kill is by keeping pressure on the enemy, while my light armor Templar bursts them down after a stun in 2 seconds with almost 5k spell damage.
Heavy armor only gives 400 extra damage, which needs to build up during the fight. Meanwhile it doesn't have the penetration and crit of medium and light, and they give more damage as a passive already. Even with fury set stacked 20 times I don't get past 3.5k, something a damage build can easily get past of.
hmm, maybe here is this my problem when I hate all heavy armor wearers, Im not the best player but almost all dk, templars what I meed are in heavu and not only have very high survivability they still can hit me hard and its end for me...when I meed in light/medium templar or dk they are hitting me no more stronger then in heavy but then I have easier to them so ok....but this 1 prblem is here...those in medium/light are hitting not much stronger than in heavy...they in heaby hitting strong + very hard is to kill them, here is problem to balance on these classes as I see
Light armor is pretty bad right now and medium armor is best suited for stealth or agile builds that avoid being hit. Medium and heavy armor seem to be around the same strength now I think, but both requiring a different play style. But light armor is pretty weak compared to the other two. You are very squishy with it so that's why you see the magicka based melee classes (templar, DK) run around in heavy now.
Heavy armor > Medium for pvp.
Dont think so, medium armor is still very effective, it all depends on the situation.
Im not sure
but with medium armor I dont have that much problem to kill like heavy armor 
, some harder to catch what for me istn annyoing like immortal metal can and then not hard to kill him while heavy armor is very hard to kill 1vs1 if he is with it on almmost perma block.....
just most of heavy armor wearers are perma block on 1vs1 sooo....not funny while medum armor will finally waste his stamina after rolldodge spam0 -
xellink✭✭✭now glass cannons are USELESS, you as glass cannon have no any f..... chance to kill someone in sustain build, normally sustain build shouldnt have to kill glass cannon so fast as for now...glass cannon ok..should be able to kill this heavy armored tank with max burst but now its impossible, max resistances, crit resistances, still perma blocking while 1vs1 and this sustain build have better burst agains glass cannon(can kill him in moment with own burst) while glass cannon agains this sustain have almost nothing
When you wear medium armor, you have increased mobility. Use it. Pick your targets. Don't go chasing those heavy armor players. They will do less in a war since they move slower.
You are supposed to defeat him in surprise, not in an open battlefield.yes I can, but no always Im able to do this because or he as tank have still good burst, he will chase me always because he want to kill me for all price or I dont have any other way without passing through him on the way or Im to stubborn to burst him and then before I kill him or run away seeing this is pointelss for me then just zerg or his help is comming for my unlucky ._.
being chased by a ha user while wearing Med?0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭"Blackrose is fine" - every blackrose user ever. <Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
Rykmaar✭✭✭Blackrose's double buff definitely needs to be looked at (though I know ZoS probably knows what the breakdown of use is), but I don't think it should be nerfed into oblivion. Keep the constitution buff, but either remove the damage buff addition, or lower both it and the % value of the constitution buff.
I'm also convinced that there'll be a pen meta to counter all the HA use these days.0 -
Jar_Ek✭✭✭✭✭If the damage bonus of BR was tied to the wrath passive would that help? ie have a base damage bonus of say 65 and then gain the next 100 in the same way as you gain a wrath damage bonus.0 -
Calboy✭✭✭✭✭Black rose is fine. It's only dangerous if you continually attack the user gifting them free resources. But of course all the nightblades are using the set as a way to vent their frustration at not being able to 3 shot everyone anymore.1 -
strikeback1247✭✭✭✭✭
✭People are running burst builds with it, because it gives better sustain then medium armor. Take away the damage aspects of it, and tanks will still use it the same way they have been. Just 2h/bow 1 shot builds wont, or will at least try to find something that suits their playstyle better.
Burst and sustain are two completely different things. Burst builds don't care about sustain.P.A.W.S. - Positively Against Wild Sasquatches - NO TO BIGFOOT!0 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭being chased by a ha user while wearing Med?
well, doesnt let me go into stealth, gap closing me, stunning or immobilazing be talons? forcing me to spam dodge to go away from his range? while I was with small resources after not good fight with him? I dont see any problem to chase someoune in medium/light while wearing heavy if he know what to do0 -
Lokey0024✭✭✭✭✭being chased by a ha user while wearing Med?
well, doesnt let me go into stealth, gap closing me, stunning or immobilazing be talons? forcing me to spam dodge to go away from his range? while I was with small resources after not good fight with him? I dont see any problem to chase someoune in medium/light while wearing heavy if he know what to do
So your l2p issue equates to HA being unbalanced? Did you try cc before you cloak? Or was it the dodge roll cloak, dodgeroll cloak, dodgeroll cloak, .....1 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭being chased by a ha user while wearing Med?
well, doesnt let me go into stealth, gap closing me, stunning or immobilazing be talons? forcing me to spam dodge to go away from his range? while I was with small resources after not good fight with him? I dont see any problem to chase someoune in medium/light while wearing heavy if he know what to do
So your l2p issue equates to HA being unbalanced? Did you try cc before you cloak? Or was it the dodge roll cloak, dodgeroll cloak, dodgeroll cloak, .....
spam gap closer, talons, spam gap closer, talons, det pot
and how to l2p counter det pot while spammed by gap closer ;P
l2p to dont touch then any heavy armor wearers, so 95% of templars and 80%+ of all dk in pvp0 -
Neoauspex✭✭✭✭✭
✭How about give cold damage, which underperforms compared to shock/fire at the moment, a bonus against heavy armor. ZOS always solves their problems by making counters to things that are overpowered.1 -
xellink✭✭✭spam gap closer, talons, spam gap closer, talons, det pot
and how to l2p counter det pot while spammed by gap closer ;P
l2p to dont touch then any heavy armor wearers, so 95% of templars and 80%+ of all dk in pvp
I don't want to sound condescending but changes in meta is difficult for majority of players to deal with. Here are a few points to help improve your game...
1. a lot of gap closers don't disable their targets, they just make you immobile such as critical charge. However, if the player is using S&B (which is abused by black rose users), there is a knockdown. Its probably not in your twitch reflex because S&B wasn't popular in PVP before. You need to dodge/block it and then CC the player. This gives you an opportunity to reset the fight. Even if you don't block it, you can break free but you will be at a massive disadvantage in a battle.
2. HA wearers consist of 33 or less percent of the players in Cyro. This means for every three players you see, you will encounter 1 HA player. HA players have less mobility, which equates to less alliance points when they are ignored. It is still possible to kill the majority of HA players and their health usually sits at 25k or so.
3. There is a misconception that HA translates to a lot more armor and damage mitigation. IT does not. There is a cap for resistances. However, what HA gains is 1) more HP regen and healing received 2) more HP 3) Increased damage on the condition they get hit. Wrath starts off weak and gets stronger. Therefore it becomes more favourable for HA users to build for sustain and drag fights to maximise the effect of Wrath.
Burst users usually start with a small advantage of surprise while dragging a battle increases disadvantage against a burst damage user. Sustained damage users like longer battles. If the battle is dragging for too long, you are probably going to lose, so leave. reset the fight when you feel the battle is too long but whether the other player allows it is a matter of both player's skill.
5. HA users have less critical damage, which means switching away some of the impenetrable trait from your armor will help you against them. However, the metagame hasn't shift because it cost people to switch their armor out completely and hence most players still run impen and spike damage, giving HA a slight advantage at the moment. But metas do catch up over time, a watch and wait approach to balancing is more prudent.Edited by xellink on September 16, 2016 4:35PM3 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭@xellink
so you wrote almost all if not all what I know about heavy lol and users of this, I know all and dont have problem with understand this and how to do something if I meet then
and 1 thing to what you wrote///I can rooldodge when he charging this hsield on me...ok but how I can see him when he is behind me?+ as I wrote:well, doesnt let me go into stealth, gap closing me, stunning or immobilazing be talons? forcing me to spam dodge to go away from his range? while I was with small resources after not good fight with him?
but this was other thread with my fail why I died in this moment while this heavy armor user knowed what to do with me
only problem what I have I can write...just meta on templars and dk with heavy armor while with it ther arnt to easy to kil by someone without sustaint on longer fight...leave it or die...but....but now is problem while most of dk and templars have heavy armor then fight agains them 1vs1 is almost always pointless then, they can giht over hours with they builds in 1vs1 fight0 -
xellink✭✭✭@xellink
so you wrote almost all if not all what I know about heavy lol and users of this, I know all and dont have problem with understand this and how to do something if I meet then
and 1 thing to what you wrote///I can rooldodge when he charging this hsield on me...ok but how I can see him when he is behind me?+ as I wrote:
Sorry, i didn't want to sound condescending.
Screen should always face your opponent whether you are running away from him or not. You can run away with the screen facing away from your opponent. Hotkey your autorun to a convenient button. I have it on 'T'.
*Some people can identify skills on sound, crank up your volume if you wanna try*only problem what I have I can write...just meta on templars and dk with heavy armor while with it ther arnt to easy to kil by someone without sustaint on longer fight...leave it or die...but....but now is problem while most of dk and templars have heavy armor then fight agains them 1vs1 is almost always pointless then, they can giht over hours with they builds in 1vs1 fight
They only have 25k hp. The problem is the meta is rife with glass cannons. A good HA armor player has as much difficulty to kill a good MA player. Your options are...
1. chain spike damage with another player.
2. Surprise attack
3. Form balanced small groups with your guild. 3-4 players is good number. The magic combination is 1 HA, 1 MA, 1 LA + 1 other.
4. Get more resistance instead of critical resistance. But that makes 2/3 of the player base stronger against you.
Edited by xellink on September 16, 2016 5:01PM0 -
Cathexis✭✭✭✭✭
✭black rose needs changes. I have a problem when a heavy armor set is better for a 2h and bow build than medium.
@EsoRecon IMO only difference should be in play style with regard to armor comparisons. But lets say I just agree with you about your point, will nerfing black rose change the idea that it will just be replaced with the next op armor which will need nerfing? IMO black rose is fine, its a balance of tanky, indirect resource return, and damage without mobility and is available to anyone who pvps for a very reasonable cost with gold quality enchants. Not only that but it caters to mag and stam builds. If this is the OP armor in pvp right now, Id say what constitutes OP armor is in a good place.Edited by Cathexis on September 16, 2016 5:28PMTome of Alteration Magic I - Reality is an Ancient Dwemer Construct: Everything You Need to Know About FPS
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