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Heavy armor, overbuffed af?
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Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭not in the slightest.
only people that cannot one shot complain about heavy armor. people give up so much to be able to survive just a little bit and every full re**rd DPS cries about it. proof lies in the complaints about reactive that does nothing to increase damage but helps mitigate gank damage, its literally an anti gank set and everyone cries about. sorry, not sorry.
if everything were balanced 1 out of every 3 people would be wearing heavy armor.
imagine all the forum tears if heavy armor were that viable .
That's a bunch of bs
salty DPS right here
No he´s right. You´re just completely wrong with your analysis on heavy armor from start to finish. Currently if not using drop sets any build on my magica sorc performs better when i use heavy armor 5p instead of light for pvp.
5 heavy seducer is better than 5 light seducer.
5 heavy julianos is better than 5 light julianos.
5 heavy kagrenac is better than than 5 light kagrenac.
5 Blackrose is better than basically everything else (on a magica sorc - w t f)
Heavy provides almost the same dmg as light as soon as wrath is procced (every dot, caltrops and basically just sneezing at you proccs it). Heavy almost provides the same sustain light armor does for magica (if you´re using a lightnign staff to counter dodging heavy armor sustain is actually superior to light due to the 50% resource return).
On top of comparable magica sustain heavy armor offers 10% extra HP, extra healing, extra armor and resistance and stamina sustain.Edited by Derra on September 12, 2016 10:13AM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
Abob✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Considering the fact that my heavy armored stam DK is the only character of mine that doesn't need to run the serpent stone, yeah I'd say they were over-buffed.
Stamina dk has always had endless sustain, especially if redguard.0 -
incognito222✭✭✭So is the thread starter asking / stating:
(1) Heavy Armor in general needs a nerf
(2) Black Rose needs a nerf
(3) Both Heavy Armor and Black Rose needs a nerf
My gankblade finds that it is indeed more challenging nowadays to burst down heavy armor users but they are definitely killable 1 v 1. For other gankers running Viper + Velidreth, killing heavy armor users becomes an easier task. I personally don't follow that route.
Update 12 has several new interesting sets that will raise the damage potential even higher. I am unsure if nerfing heavy armor is warranted (it may well be, if ZOS intends the PVP scene to adopt a very short time-to-kill duration).
Needs discussion and consideration from both sides of the fence. But if indeed heavy armor is nerfed in terms of damage mitigation and/or sustainability, then it will be likely that players gravitate to other armor types, making heavy armor less desirable.
ZOS has stated that all three armor types must be desirable.
Let's see how things progress, but IMHO when update 12 hits live, Heavy Armor / Black Rose will be the least of your worries.
Have a good day everyone, looking forward to your thoughts via constructive discussion. Cheers.
* Playing from Indonesia *5 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
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velidreth..ok....but it also can hit strong on heavy armor and is bugget, I tested it some and this set also is procing while you taking damage without dealing (deal with it
) and vigor....looooool, 1-2k heal ticks, you are seriously? do you wanna spam rolldodge until this heal end? for example some aoe like sap essence...while undodgeable it hitting harder than viger healas, for 2-3k, mostly vigour without rally is crap on pvp or without other burst heal like from maybe bow or dual flurry.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/comment/3350660/#Comment_3350660
what is overbuffed it this while you can go also in 5x heavy armor, 2x veli and on jewerly and weapons, dual/shield with viper and get so high burst with sustained heavy armor, no need then to spam burst abilities while you have these sets.
same sitation for builds on max regen, sustain on medium armor without stacked damage because these set doing your main burst what is sick now0 -
Zeuq✭✭✭Heavy armor is not balanced black rose and reactive are the worst part of it.
If I can 1v5 a group and kill everyone except for a magplar out of stamina ccd on the floor and not dying because of reactive and end up giving up and just leaving after 8 minutes that's not balanced, sets like these are rewarding you for being bad.Zeúq - Magicka Dragonknight DC
Zeuq - Stamina Dragonknight DC
Reyals (Previously Hugh Heffner) - Stamina Nightblade EP
Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_VKMbppimZeaSNG4S_1-KQ0 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
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soo sustained build with sacrifaced some cp from damage or resists to get more heal or stacked healing buffs, ok, but not much people I tink are that much stackng healing sacrifacing something other if they are not for very sustain build + look still on something like sap essence, 2-3k hits so it will still negate your healing from vigor0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
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soo sustained build with sacrifaced some cp from damage or resists to get more heal or stacked healing buffs, ok, but not much people I tink are that much stackng healing sacrifacing something other if they are not for very sustain build + look still on something like sap essence, 2-3k hits so it will still negate your healing from vigor
You do not have to sacrifice anything. Just stack max stamina and weapon damage to high heaven.4 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
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soo sustained build with sacrifaced some cp from damage or resists to get more heal or stacked healing buffs, ok, but not much people I tink are that much stackng healing sacrifacing something other if they are not for very sustain build + look still on something like sap essence, 2-3k hits so it will still negate your healing from vigor
You do not have to sacrifice anything. Just stack max stamina and weapon damage to high heaven.
mhm, so can you tell me how? as on stmaina nb, wearing all for burst in pve gear with divines trait with shadow or warrior mundus, hundings rage, 1x molag kena, 1x veli, full agility, master weapons and all in damage in blues cp and never got healing by 3k crit with vigor, maybe 2.5k max with under 2k healing without crit, just glass cannon build, no anything to def, max to damage or maybe I need to go on stamina sorc or something else, like they can very easily stack weapon damage
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Abob✭✭✭Heavy armor is not balanced black rose and reactive are the worst part of it.
If I can 1v5 a group and kill everyone except for a magplar out of stamina ccd on the floor and not dying because of reactive and end up giving up and just leaving after 8 minutes that's not balanced, sets like these are rewarding you for being bad.
Is the magplar ever going to kill you?1 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Heavy armor is not balanced black rose and reactive are the worst part of it.
If I can 1v5 a group and kill everyone except for a magplar out of stamina ccd on the floor and not dying because of reactive and end up giving up and just leaving after 8 minutes that's not balanced, sets like these are rewarding you for being bad.
Is the magplar ever going to kill you?
These templars aint that dangerous on their own, but they are if they are in a group, and said group is extremely strong because of the fact that the templar cant rly die unless focused by multiple players. Most magplars dont run out of magicka, ever for some reason, they barely take dmg and less so if cced due to certain set(s). IMO theres something wrong with that.
PC EU
PvP only0 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭not in the slightest.
only people that cannot one shot complain about heavy armor. people give up so much to be able to survive just a little bit and every full re**rd DPS cries about it. proof lies in the complaints about reactive that does nothing to increase damage but helps mitigate gank damage, its literally an anti gank set and everyone cries about. sorry, not sorry.
if everything were balanced 1 out of every 3 people would be wearing heavy armor.
imagine all the forum tears if heavy armor were that viable .
That's a bunch of bs
salty DPS right here
No he´s right. You´re just completely wrong with your analysis on heavy armor from start to finish. Currently if not using drop sets any build on my magica sorc performs better when i use heavy armor 5p instead of light for pvp.
5 heavy seducer is better than 5 light seducer.
5 heavy julianos is better than 5 light julianos.
5 heavy kagrenac is better than than 5 light kagrenac.
5 Blackrose is better than basically everything else (on a magica sorc - w t f)
Heavy provides almost the same dmg as light as soon as wrath is procced (every dot, caltrops and basically just sneezing at you proccs it). Heavy almost provides the same sustain light armor does for magica (if you´re using a lightnign staff to counter dodging heavy armor sustain is actually superior to light due to the 50% resource return).
On top of comparable magica sustain heavy armor offers 10% extra HP, extra healing, extra armor and resistance and stamina sustain.
Exactly.
Now the sustain on its own isnt the issue I have with heavy armor, and ofc not the tankiness either, its the fact that both of these things can be combined with very high dmg output due to heavy armor passives. You get the full package.
PC EU
PvP only0 -
Paraflex✭✭✭✭I like heavy armor and feel it has a place in pvp...its sets like black rose and reactive armor that give it a bad name. Tone down those two sets so they don't over perform so much and heavy will be fineHollykills CP 630 Templar Healer - Ad PS4 Warlord Rank
Max Stam/Mag Dk
Max Stam Sorc
Max Stam/Mag NB
Don't care to dps much so I heal.0 -
Abob✭✭✭Heavy armor is not balanced black rose and reactive are the worst part of it.
If I can 1v5 a group and kill everyone except for a magplar out of stamina ccd on the floor and not dying because of reactive and end up giving up and just leaving after 8 minutes that's not balanced, sets like these are rewarding you for being bad.
Is the magplar ever going to kill you?
These templars aint that dangerous on their own, but they are if they are in a group, and said group is extremely strong because of the fact that the templar cant rly die unless focused by multiple players. Most magplars dont run out of magicka, ever for some reason, they barely take dmg and less so if cced due to certain set(s). IMO theres something wrong with that.
So, the guy is a tanky heal bot; can't die but can't kill. I don't see anything OP, maybe annoying, but not OP.6 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Heavy armor is fine. Right now heavy and medium are well balanced and if you think this is wrong, you aren't using medium armor to its full potential or maybe you're only interested in duels and trying to balance on that.
Light armor is underperforming in respect to heavy but I think that is more an issue of magicka specs and how they go about doing damage as well as light armor not having the best sets available to them. Most magicka specs (besides IC stone gank NBs) need to go through a bunch of rotations to take an enemy out instead of relying on high burst dmg (and item set procs) like stamina builds, and therefore heavy fits better in the current state of magicka builds.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points3 -
GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The only issue i have with heavy is how blackrose grants so much sustain with damage. Id rather it not have the damage.PS4 NA DC0 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Considering the fact that my heavy armored stam DK is the only character of mine that doesn't need to run the serpent stone, yeah I'd say they were over-buffed.
Stamina dk has always had endless sustain, especially if redguard.
That's great, I still need the serpent mundus when my DK is wearing medium armor; whereas I don't need it when I'm wearing heavy. Light and medium armor should be superior when it comes to resource management, and DPS. Currently you're losing minimal DPS, while obtaining superior resource management, and survivability in heavy armor.Edited by Strider_Roshin on September 12, 2016 4:39PM1 -
kadar✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've been on Haderus (PC NA) for the past few weeks, so I can't speak for TF. But the DC and AD on Haderus (the decent ones) consist entirely of Heavy Armor Tank/DPS builds. Nothing but HA DKs and Templars as far as the eye can see. The tank meta is real, especially on my campaign.0 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The_Outsider wrote: »I've been on Haderus (PC NA) for the past few weeks, so I can't speak for TF. But the DC and AD on Haderus (the decent ones) consist entirely of Heavy Armor Tank/DPS builds. Nothing but HA DKs and Templars as far as the eye can see. The tank meta is real, especially on my campaign.
And it's about to get worse with the next update.0 -
kadar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »The_Outsider wrote: »I've been on Haderus (PC NA) for the past few weeks, so I can't speak for TF. But the DC and AD on Haderus (the decent ones) consist entirely of Heavy Armor Tank/DPS builds. Nothing but HA DKs and Templars as far as the eye can see. The tank meta is real, especially on my campaign.
And it's about to get worse with the next update.
Ya. Either gonna join them, or come up with Tank shredding build. Need my 2H Maul to drop in vMA first doe....
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Wing✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The_Outsider wrote: »I've been on Haderus (PC NA) for the past few weeks, so I can't speak for TF. But the DC and AD on Haderus (the decent ones) consist entirely of Heavy Armor Tank/DPS builds. Nothing but HA DKs and Templars as far as the eye can see. The tank meta is real, especially on my campaign.
Templars and Dragonknights wearing Heavy armor has less to do with Heavy armor being good then it does the classes not having built in mobility.
both of those classes are fight or die classes that lack mobility and escape mechanisms present in classes like Sorcerer and Nightblade (both of with have built in forms of expedition, cloak, bolt escape, a very tricky teleport clone, etc.)
Dragonknight especially has to wear heavy armor because not only is it an immobile class but also has no built in ranged attack (other then now stonefist and its still a joke of a skill) all of its attacks require it to be within melee range.
those two classes wearing heavy have been that way for years, the only reason people notice now is because of recall bias.Edited by Wing on September 12, 2016 5:32PMESO player since beta.
game got too disappointing.3 -
AhPook_Is_Here✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think it's fine, i get why 2 shot gank builds don't like it because it's good at defeating that play-style, but there are many ways to deal with tanky builds, and super-tanky builds don't dish out much damage. I'm actually happy about the longer fights now in this game.“Whatever.”
-Unknown American1 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Considering the fact that my heavy armored stam DK is the only character of mine that doesn't need to run the serpent stone, yeah I'd say they were over-buffed.
Stamina dk has always had endless sustain, especially if redguard.
That's great, I still need the serpent mundus when my DK is wearing medium armor; whereas I don't need it when I'm wearing heavy. Light and medium armor should be superior when it comes to resource management, and DPS. Currently you're losing minimal DPS, while obtaining superior resource management, and survivability in heavy armor.
And this folks is what happens when you have a game that decides that defensive resource pools should be the same as offensive resource pools.
Specifically how can you give blocking tanks enough sustain and resources (stam regen/max stamina) while excluding the damage dealers that need the same sustain and resource as the tanks?
You can't. Not without fundamentally changing how the game works.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »I think it's fine, i get why 2 shot gank builds don't like it because it's good at defeating that play-style, but there are many ways to deal with tanky builds, and super-tanky builds don't dish out much damage. I'm actually happy about the longer fights now in this game.
Fights were always long between equally skilled opponents.
Now every moron can equip certain sets hold rmb and is basically not killable in a 1v1 or even 2v1 encounter while waiting for friends to arrive.
The problem is it might counter twoshot gank builds (but those are actually the builds that have the biggest chance at killing tanks still). It harms gameplay for everyone not running those builds even more.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »I think it's fine, i get why 2 shot gank builds don't like it because it's good at defeating that play-style, but there are many ways to deal with tanky builds, and super-tanky builds don't dish out much damage. I'm actually happy about the longer fights now in this game.
Fights were always long between equally skilled opponents.
Now every moron can equip certain sets hold rmb and is basically not killable in a 1v1 or even 2v1 encounter while waiting for friends to arrive.
The problem is it might counter twoshot gank builds (but those are actually the builds that have the biggest chance at killing tanks still). It harms gameplay for everyone not running those builds even more.
I HATE gankers and think they ruin PvP, so anything that limits their sneaky backstabbing wuss playstyle I fully support. HEAVY ARMOUR FOR ALL!!!
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Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »I think it's fine, i get why 2 shot gank builds don't like it because it's good at defeating that play-style, but there are many ways to deal with tanky builds, and super-tanky builds don't dish out much damage. I'm actually happy about the longer fights now in this game.
Fights were always long between equally skilled opponents.
Now every moron can equip certain sets hold rmb and is basically not killable in a 1v1 or even 2v1 encounter while waiting for friends to arrive.
The problem is it might counter twoshot gank builds (but those are actually the builds that have the biggest chance at killing tanks still). It harms gameplay for everyone not running those builds even more.
I HATE gankers and think they ruin PvP, so anything that limits their sneaky backstabbing wuss playstyle I fully support. HEAVY ARMOUR FOR ALL!!!
so tell me then for what is NB class?
and from other side gangers are able to prejudge battles at keeps, killing incomming reinfocements or informing group about incomming zerg from back
EDIT: and when you are fully to support heavy armor then I am for give us old reapers mark which reducing 75% all your resist and yout oppnent for truly gang, now this skill is useless, only for some other nb to not let go into hide, thats allEdited by Edziu on September 13, 2016 8:17AM0 -
xblackroxe✭✭✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »I think it's fine, i get why 2 shot gank builds don't like it because it's good at defeating that play-style, but there are many ways to deal with tanky builds, and super-tanky builds don't dish out much damage. I'm actually happy about the longer fights now in this game.
Fights were always long between equally skilled opponents.
Now every moron can equip certain sets hold rmb and is basically not killable in a 1v1 or even 2v1 encounter while waiting for friends to arrive.
The problem is it might counter twoshot gank builds (but those are actually the builds that have the biggest chance at killing tanks still). It harms gameplay for everyone not running those builds even more.
I HATE gankers and think they ruin PvP, so anything that limits their sneaky backstabbing wuss playstyle I fully support. HEAVY ARMOUR FOR ALL!!!
Thats the problem though this is not smth that helps against gankers. They can still kill those people. The one that really suffer are people that are not full-out burst bc those just can´t kill those people alone.Member of HODOR
Dro-m'Athra Destroyer0
