Maintenance for the week of September 8:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – September 8
• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784

Bugs and Ninja Nerfing: lightning staff, Fighter's guild, speed, and pets... What else?

  • Dracane
    Dracane
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    If I was Eric, I would do everything to stop the hate and listen to what the majority says and try to transfer it into reality as quick as possible.

    Maybe he really doesn't care what people say, like @hedna123b14_ESO said.
    In this case, I would still respect him. Because I too don't care what people think about me in real life :) I always knew, Eric is the right man for me. But ESO also is my favorite game....
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • Pandorii
    Pandorii
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Dracane I wonder why the other devs and mods don't stick up for him. He's clearly not a regular forum reader/poster. It seems mean that they let him take all the hate, when in reality the problems can be attributed to many others. Problems with communication, community preferences, and balancing.
  • Shadesofkin
    Shadesofkin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Pandorii that is exactly why I always say "dev team" and "game designers" I don't like placing it all on one persons shoulders.
    @shadesofkin -NA Server.
    Tier 2 Player.
    MagDK Main forever (even in the bad times)
  • jhharvest
    jhharvest
    ✭✭✭
    I don't think it can be the fault of any single person. I think it's probably an organisational issue with too long development cycle and not enough flexibility and statistics monitoring. It doesn't help that they are completely opaque to the playerbase when it comes to the statistics. We have generally speaking poor visibility into the actual numbers of classes and their performance. A general gist for sure (stam is over performing, heavy in pvp), but little in the way of specifics. I think these two issues combined are very bad for the balance and community spirit.
  • Dracane
    Dracane
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Pandorii wrote: »
    @Dracane I wonder why the other devs and mods don't stick up for him. He's clearly not a regular forum reader/poster. It seems mean that they let him take all the hate, when in reality the problems can be attributed to many others. Problems with communication, community preferences, and balancing.

    I don't know either. They have always been very silent and unpersonal.
    Even after 3 years, they still believe that remaining silent makes them seem professional.

    Even though people nowadays appreciate it when someone cares for them.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • Shadesofkin
    Shadesofkin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    The lack of any sort of explanation really is infuriating.
    @shadesofkin -NA Server.
    Tier 2 Player.
    MagDK Main forever (even in the bad times)
  • Derra
    Derra
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Pandorii wrote: »
    @Dracane I wonder why the other devs and mods don't stick up for him. He's clearly not a regular forum reader/poster. It seems mean that they let him take all the hate, when in reality the problems can be attributed to many others. Problems with communication, community preferences, and balancing.

    This game is not overly complex. He´s the lead of combat design + itemisation + skilldesign. He either makes questionable decisions himself or does a mediocre job supervising the decisions his team is making.

    Either way he´s to blame because he literally is the person in charge of everything combat related happening.
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • SirMewser
    SirMewser
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Last time we got clarification from a Dev we got a Q&A on the decisions made for combat and skills design dating back to Dark Brotherhood: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/267979/dark-brotherhood-sorcerer-q-a/p1

    "As a Stamina character, even without a class damaging ability, you have a diverse set of options between Bow, 1h Shield, 2h, and Dual Wield. Magicka technically has 4 options as well – Restoration Staff and 3 flavors of Destruction Staff. However Restoration staff doesn’t support offensive abilities and there is not enough diversity between the three types of Destruction Staff. We don’t have any immediate plans to change this, but we would like to give Sorcerers more compelling decisions when selecting a weapon."

    All magic based players should have a choice, not just Sorcerer's because they have a few passive benefits which currently isn't pushing lightning in favor alone, now is it?

    "Offering players interesting choices is one of our design goals. People have different playstyles..."

    The changes made on the current PTS is counter productive and immoral to the statement made on the issue this is regarding. As of right now, there is little incentive to believe this goal is a desire they still wish to pursue, given the; previous changes made, current decisions made, lack of communication, and long wait for an update on the concern at hand.

    @Wrobel Don't falter a resolve any longer, the problem has only grown worse.

    Thanks.
    Edited by SirMewser on September 11, 2016 7:40PM
  • Dracane
    Dracane
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    SirMewser wrote: »
    Last time we got clarification from a Dev we got a Q&A on the decisions made for combat and skills design dating back to Dark Brotherhood: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/267979/dark-brotherhood-sorcerer-q-a/p1

    "As a Stamina character, even without a class damaging ability, you have a diverse set of options between Bow, 1h Shield, 2h, and Dual Wield. Magicka technically has 4 options as well – Restoration Staff and 3 flavors of Destruction Staff. However Restoration staff doesn’t support offensive abilities and there is not enough diversity between the three types of Destruction Staff. We don’t have any immediate plans to change this, but we would like to give Sorcerers more compelling decisions when selecting a weapon."

    All magic based players should have a choice, not just Sorcerer's because they have a few passive benefits which currently isn't pushing lightning in favor alone, now is it?

    "Offering players interesting choices is one of our design goals. People have different playstyles..."

    The changes made on the current PTS is counter productive and immoral to the statement made on the issue this is regarding. As of right now, there is little incentive to believe this goal is a desire they still wish to pursue, given the; previous changes made, current decisions made, lack of communication, and long wait for an update on the concern at hand.

    @Wrobel Don't falter a resolve any longer, the problem has only grown worse.

    Thanks.

    He mentioned Sorcs, because they depend on destruction staff more than any other class, due to haveing no access to instant damage in their class skill lines.

    But I agree, everyone should have a choice. All other magicka builds basically have but one choice and that's dual wield. You only nerf yourself when you don't use dual wield and that that's a stam weapon line.
    And I also agree with this PTS being very contraproducitve. This basically killed lightning staves as a weapon choice.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • SirMewser
    SirMewser
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Update:
    I logged onto my live character and turned on health numbers, realized my pets health has been reduced by seemingly 25% from what I've remembered from the last time I had health numbers enabled, I looked for videos with people who enabled resource numbers and looked directly at their pets.
    I then asked a friend to level with me because he is new and is just about to reach level 50, got him to CP 20 and his pet's health have never changed since level 50 whereas originally they could level up to VR16/CP160.

    OP has been updated.

    Before:
    2dioxlh.png

    zt7l8z.png

    rns1llvqp4or.png

    Now:
    kaly1mgcawwp.png

    13482909_919009321554819_7605655076320670046_o.jpg

    Edited by SirMewser on September 13, 2016 3:21AM
  • tenpeir
    tenpeir
    ✭✭
    I use a lightning restoration combination on both the sorc and nb, at the moment the restoration staff puts out more dps than the lightning against a single target. The lightning staff is the only ranged AOE available to the sorc and once that has gone I can see no reason to be invited into a group. The only other AOE option is to use Pulsar, which involves running around in a mob using light armour and shields, while leaving out your other options such as liquid lightning.

    I had to level up dual wield (3.1k v 1.9k for the staff) and found that here was nothing that would help me to instantly attack. There are many options if the target remains in one place, such as a boss, but nothing ranged except crystal fragments which has about 1/3 of a chance of going off. Ended up using group dailies to level up where I could hide my inadequates.

    I guess I will have to become a generic sorcerer and hope i get to remain in a group.
  • Gilvoth
    Gilvoth
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    edit

    Edited by Gilvoth on September 12, 2016 3:41AM
  • Gilvoth
    Gilvoth
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    SirMewser wrote: »

    Back when major expedition was reduced to 30% from 40%, the player's base speed was increase by 10% to compensate.
    This compensation was removed.


    will we get our movement speeds back ?
    [specificly sneak speeds is major important for me] movement speeds were reduced at a very noticeable amount, will we get those speeds back ?
  • Mojmir
    Mojmir
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    can we change the name of the skill line to inferno staff instead of destruction,thanks
  • Cronopoly
    Cronopoly
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Unfortunately with specifically the new Lightning bonus set in 1 Tamriel, the Lighning staff potential AOE is gone. /Jedi Mind trick.

    ZOS "Basically because we are releasing this new Set we are Nerfing the Heavy AOE damage to crap". Zero Sum. Nothing gained, nothing lost. Not worth using at all.

    Yet Physical damage will get everything and lose nothing.

    And if anyone thinks we'll get both Lightning staff reverted and a worthy Destro Ult they are crazy. :*
  • Haquor
    Haquor
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @ZOS_GinaBruno please heed our comments. This will effectively killing any opportunity for PvE lightning staff use

    You simply dont understand how this works. If people have vmsa lightning staves now and they are happy there is no reason for them to continue subscribing if they are min maxers. Remove usefulness of the lightning staff and people get back to farming vmsa.

    And yes... a bug such as additional aoe damage that makes a staff other than fire useful must be removed. Simply no other staff is permitted to be desirable. Period.
  • Sharee
    Sharee
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    SirMewser wrote: »
    Back when major expedition was reduced to 30% from 40%, the player's base speed was increase by 10% to compensate.
    This compensation was removed.

    IIRC it wasn't player base speed that was increased to compensate, but player sprint speed.
  • SirMewser
    SirMewser
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sharee wrote: »
    SirMewser wrote: »
    Back when major expedition was reduced to 30% from 40%, the player's base speed was increase by 10% to compensate.
    This compensation was removed.

    IIRC it wasn't player base speed that was increased to compensate, but player sprint speed.
    Thanks.
    Found from patch 2.3.5
    Reduced the bonus movement speed from the Major Expedition buff category to 30% from 40%.
    Increased the bonus movement speed from Sprint to 40% from 30%.

    You are correct, however, I have people testing claime that the base speed been reduced and I personally am experiencing the same problem.

    [Edit]: Sprint speed reduced to 33% from 40%.
    Base speed reduced by 10%.
    Fiord's Legacy is now multiplied by the reduced sprint speed bonus rather than additive (4.5% bonus down from 15%).
    Updated OP.
    Edited by SirMewser on September 12, 2016 6:40AM
  • Dracane
    Dracane
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    SirMewser wrote: »
    Update:
    I logged onto my live character and turned on health numbers, realized my pets health has been reduced by seemingly 25% from what I've remembered, I looked for videos with people who enabled resource numbers and looked directly at their pets.
    I then asked a friend to level with me because he is new and is just about to reach level 50, got him to CP 20 and his pet's health have never changed since level 50 whereas originally they could level up to VR16/CP160.

    OP has been updated.

    Before:
    2dioxlh.png

    zt7l8z.png

    rns1llvqp4or.png

    Now:
    kaly1mgcawwp.png

    13482909_919009321554819_7605655076320670046_o.jpg

    You steal my pics ? :D Give me credit at least.
    Yea pet health was reduced with thieves guild or so, I can't remember correctly.

    That was when they claimed, that pets now gain 5000 health in pvp. And along with that, they reduced pet health in pve. They actually have less health in pvp now.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • Transairion
    Transairion
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    You steal my pics ? :D Give me credit at least.
    Yea pet health was reduced with thieves guild or so, I can't remember correctly.

    That was when they claimed, that pets now gain 5000 health in pvp. And along with that, they reduced pet health in pve. They actually have less health in pvp now.

    I thought those screenshots looked familiar... I really hope this is just an old change being noticed though, and not any sign of further pet nerfs. How about some buffs, come on??

    I'm pretty sure the "5000 hp in PvP zones" is broken anyway, since putting pets out in PvP their HP bar doesn't completely fill and always had a small empty portion at the end. Now it might just been the ingame Show Ally Healthbars bugging out (not an addon), but boy it looks bad and I haven't noticed them any tankier in PvP areas...

    Edited by Transairion on September 12, 2016 8:27AM
  • GCVDJ11T
    GCVDJ11T
    ✭✭✭✭
    Hey guys, thanks for your patience. We can confirm that the change to the Lightning Staff AoE proc was intended.

    :(
  • Namarkas
    Namarkas
    ✭✭✭
    I am definately not the most experienced player with those kind of things, but seems like Magika Bubbles got nerfed. On Live, they restore X over time depending on the enemies hit, which is a fixed value (probably depending on the caster's stats). On PTS, the tooltip says it restores 1% magika per enemy, which probably means the magicka of the synergy consumer, which would be a hit for e.g. tanks. Didnt have time to confirm it though, if somebody can or proves me wrong id be happy.
  • Reorx_Holybeard
    Reorx_Holybeard
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Namarkas wrote: »
    I am definately not the most experienced player with those kind of things, but seems like Magika Bubbles got nerfed. On Live, they restore X over time depending on the enemies hit, which is a fixed value (probably depending on the caster's stats). On PTS, the tooltip says it restores 1% magika per enemy, which probably means the magicka of the synergy consumer, which would be a hit for e.g. tanks. Didnt have time to confirm it though, if somebody can or proves me wrong id be happy.

    So the raw description of Mystic Orb on Live is:
    Mystic Orb
    Project a globe of annihilation that floats forward, dealing 572 Magic Damage to nearby enemies. An ally can activate the Magicka Combustion synergy, causing the orb to explode for 4345 Magic Damage and restoring the ally for 1999 Magicka instantly and 999 more over 10 seconds, plus additional Magicka based on number of enemies hit. Orb also restores Magicka instantly when it explodes.

    and on PTS it is:
    Mystic Orb
    Project a globe of annihilation that floats forward, dealing 574 Magic Damage to nearby enemies. An ally can activate the Magicka Combustion synergy, causing the orb to explode for 4366 Magic Damage and restore 1999 Magicka instantly and 1% Magicka over 10 seconds to nearby allies per enemy hit. Orb also restores Magicka instantly when it explodes.

    So the fixed amount over 10 seconds may have been reduced a lot (from 1000 to 0 effectively) depending on what % per enemy is on Live at the moment.
    Reorx Holybeard -- NA/PC
    Founder/Admin of www.uesp.net -- UESP ESO Guilds
    Creator of the "Best" ESO Build Editor
    I'm on a quest to build the world's toughest USB drive!
  • Sallington
    Sallington
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Minno wrote: »
    code65536 wrote: »
    Hey guys, thanks for your patience. We can confirm that the change to the Lightning Staff AoE proc was intended.

    Since the AoE was unintended, then all I have to say is, this mistake of yours actually improved gameplay and helped improve combat balance.

    If I were @Wrobel I would backtrack and say, "We intended the current behavior on Live all along, and this change on the PTS was a mistake," and then bask in the kudos of improving combat balance.

    I'm actually willing to bet the AOE was intended, but forgotten it was added. Then someone got fired, the change forgotten and now they think it was a bug lol.

    And that's why, you always leave a note!
    Daggerfall Covenant
    Sallington - Templar - Stormproof - Prefect II
    Cobham - Sorcerer - Stormproof - First Sergeant II
    Shallington - NightBlade - Lieutenant |
    Balmorah - Templar - Sergeant ||
  • hrothbern
    hrothbern
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sallington wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    code65536 wrote: »
    Hey guys, thanks for your patience. We can confirm that the change to the Lightning Staff AoE proc was intended.

    Since the AoE was unintended, then all I have to say is, this mistake of yours actually improved gameplay and helped improve combat balance.

    If I were @Wrobel I would backtrack and say, "We intended the current behavior on Live all along, and this change on the PTS was a mistake," and then bask in the kudos of improving combat balance.

    I'm actually willing to bet the AOE was intended, but forgotten it was added. Then someone got fired, the change forgotten and now they think it was a bug lol.

    And that's why, you always leave a note!

    How do you mean that ?

    The one fired leaves a note ?
    "I still do not understand why I followed the advice of Captain Rana to bring the villagers of Bleakrock into safety. We should have fought for our village and not have backed down, with our tail between our legs. Now my home village is in shambles, the houses burning, the invaders feasting.I swear every day to Shor that after Molag Bal has been defeated, I will hunt down the invaders and restore peace in Bleakrock and drink my mead with my friends at the market place".PC-EU
  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Haquor wrote: »
    @ZOS_GinaBruno please heed our comments. This will effectively killing any opportunity for PvE lightning staff use

    You simply dont understand how this works. If people have vmsa lightning staves now and they are happy there is no reason for them to continue subscribing if they are min maxers. Remove usefulness of the lightning staff and people get back to farming vmsa.

    And yes... a bug such as additional aoe damage that makes a staff other than fire useful must be removed. Simply no other staff is permitted to be desirable. Period.

    Lol sounds about right.
  • SirMewser
    SirMewser
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dracane wrote: »
    SirMewser wrote: »
    Update:
    I logged onto my live character and turned on health numbers, realized my pets health has been reduced by seemingly 25% from what I've remembered, I looked for videos with people who enabled resource numbers and looked directly at their pets.
    I then asked a friend to level with me because he is new and is just about to reach level 50, got him to CP 20 and his pet's health have never changed since level 50 whereas originally they could level up to VR16/CP160.

    OP has been updated.

    Before:
    2dioxlh.png

    zt7l8z.png

    rns1llvqp4or.png

    Now:
    kaly1mgcawwp.png

    13482909_919009321554819_7605655076320670046_o.jpg

    You steal my pics ? :D Give me credit at least.
    Yea pet health was reduced with thieves guild or so, I can't remember correctly.

    That was when they claimed, that pets now gain 5000 health in pvp. And along with that, they reduced pet health in pve. They actually have less health in pvp now.

    Fixed, credit and clarification given to Dracane on this issue. <3

    I just realized the issue recently on live. :(
    Edited by SirMewser on September 12, 2016 3:34PM
  • Minno
    Minno
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    hrothbern wrote: »
    Sallington wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    code65536 wrote: »
    Hey guys, thanks for your patience. We can confirm that the change to the Lightning Staff AoE proc was intended.

    Since the AoE was unintended, then all I have to say is, this mistake of yours actually improved gameplay and helped improve combat balance.

    If I were @Wrobel I would backtrack and say, "We intended the current behavior on Live all along, and this change on the PTS was a mistake," and then bask in the kudos of improving combat balance.

    I'm actually willing to bet the AOE was intended, but forgotten it was added. Then someone got fired, the change forgotten and now they think it was a bug lol.

    And that's why, you always leave a note!

    How do you mean that ?

    The one fired leaves a note ?

    The one fired can't leave a note. In corporate America you have 2weeks to give a company for transition between Project managers if you quit but literally have to be escorted out same day if you are fired.

    It's possible for this game if anyone was fired, if that employee didn't leave a good record of any work, for information to get kinda "lost". It would take another employee longer to locate the right changes; poor management practices but not out of the ordinary.

    (I used to work for a company with high employee turn around and know others in similar situations. Design is not far from game development; just a different art medium.)
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • hrothbern
    hrothbern
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Minno wrote: »
    hrothbern wrote: »
    Sallington wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    code65536 wrote: »
    Hey guys, thanks for your patience. We can confirm that the change to the Lightning Staff AoE proc was intended.

    Since the AoE was unintended, then all I have to say is, this mistake of yours actually improved gameplay and helped improve combat balance.

    If I were @Wrobel I would backtrack and say, "We intended the current behavior on Live all along, and this change on the PTS was a mistake," and then bask in the kudos of improving combat balance.

    I'm actually willing to bet the AOE was intended, but forgotten it was added. Then someone got fired, the change forgotten and now they think it was a bug lol.

    And that's why, you always leave a note!

    How do you mean that ?

    The one fired leaves a note ?

    The one fired can't leave a note. In corporate America you have 2weeks to give a company for transition between Project managers if you quit but literally have to be escorted out same day if you are fired.

    It's possible for this game if anyone was fired, if that employee didn't leave a good record of any work, for information to get kinda "lost". It would take another employee longer to locate the right changes; poor management practices but not out of the ordinary.

    (I used to work for a company with high employee turn around and know others in similar situations. Design is not far from game development; just a different art medium.)

    Jep,
    That's why I asked...
    It depends ofc on country and company culture.
    But in corporate US and international companies on the Stock Exchange
    former employees still having their company phone, email and accesses to company systems are seen as an avoidable liability
    and cut off as fast as possible, with just enough time for a good bye email.

    EDIT:
    Is also the general reason why you "leave your notes" in company system software
    What is then still lost, is the normal collateral damage, but no liability.

    Edited by hrothbern on September 12, 2016 3:13PM
    "I still do not understand why I followed the advice of Captain Rana to bring the villagers of Bleakrock into safety. We should have fought for our village and not have backed down, with our tail between our legs. Now my home village is in shambles, the houses burning, the invaders feasting.I swear every day to Shor that after Molag Bal has been defeated, I will hunt down the invaders and restore peace in Bleakrock and drink my mead with my friends at the market place".PC-EU
  • OtarTheMad
    OtarTheMad
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    SirMewser wrote: »
    Update:
    I logged onto my live character and turned on health numbers, realized my pets health has been reduced by seemingly 25% from what I've remembered, I looked for videos with people who enabled resource numbers and looked directly at their pets.
    I then asked a friend to level with me because he is new and is just about to reach level 50, got him to CP 20 and his pet's health have never changed since level 50 whereas originally they could level up to VR16/CP160.

    OP has been updated.

    Before:
    2dioxlh.png

    zt7l8z.png

    rns1llvqp4or.png

    Now:
    kaly1mgcawwp.png

    13482909_919009321554819_7605655076320670046_o.jpg

    Did they feel that pets weren't getting one shot enough in PvP? "Oh crap Wrobel, Sorcs are using pets in PvP... what do we do?" "Just reduce the health so a lvl 10 can one shot it." I actually had a build I was testing and the clannfear was pretty essential to the build (the heal) and now that build might be scrapped.

    Back to pets being completely friggin' useless. I should just do what ZOS wants all magicka build to do... roll stamina.
    Edited by OtarTheMad on September 12, 2016 4:09PM
Sign In or Register to comment.