Maelstrom Sharpened trait : a Myth

ScooberSteve · September 2016

I got a 2hand sword sharpened on the 4th complete. Which is the best 2hander?

sluice · September 2016

ScooberSteve wrote: »

I got a 2hand sword sharpened on the 4th complete. Which is the best 2hander?

Congrats!

I think most will say the Sword because of the 5% extra damage it provides via the Two-Handed passives.
The one I would trade my left kidney for, is the Maul, thought.

And I think, unless you have a source of Major Fracture (Nightblade's Surprise Attack), that the Maul is the BiS.
Especially, since we see more and more people running in Heavy Armor.

But the truth is any Sharpened Maelstrom 2H is great and I would personally would really be happy whatever which one I get, if I do get one.. that is!

Docmandu · September 2016

Solariken wrote: »

I would love a token system too, but Rich made a stand-offish comment at PAX West about this, essentially stating that it's not going to happen because he wants you to keep doing the content. He doesn't care how brutal and frustrating it is. Sorry OP.

His job is to keep us just unhappy enough so that we're always on the edge of quitting but don't.

s7732425ub17_ESO · September 2016

I have 15 or so Maelstrom weapons, and about 30% are sharpened.

Something does seem fishy about the RNG in this game, though. Too many statistical anomalies that keep popping up.

Jaronking · September 2016

sluice wrote: »

I feel like Maelstrom weapon trading could affect the game economy in a way that ZOS doesn't want to go in.

Well, in fact I don't think they will ever implement a token system either.. but I feel like Maelstrom weapon trading is less probable than other solutions:
-Token System
-Trait change on weapon
-Smart Loot system
-Weekly vendor
-etc.

But that's just my opinion.

@Joysheeped, thanks man, I appreciate the good vibe!

I don't think so allowing players who have completed Vet maelstrom should be allowed to trade them with other people who have completed it.This goes with ZOs philosophy of having players do the content they have done the content but your RNG in Maelstrom is the worst in the game.It'd the only BOP gear you can't trade with partners to easy up the loot grind this should be changed. @ZOS_Finn @ZOS_RichLambert can we discuss the pros and con's of adding this to the game?

nimander99 · September 2016

Solariken wrote: »

I would love a token system too, but Rich made a stand-offish comment at PAX West about this, essentially stating that it's not going to happen because he wants you to keep doing the content. He doesn't care how brutal and frustrating it is. Sorry OP.

In Soviet Tamriel: Content plays you!

SirAndy · September 2016

Junipus wrote: »

It's entirely RNG.

I just wish people would do some research before spouting that statement.

We have a solid 3 years of evidence that ZOS RNG is anything *but* actual RNG.
This has been clearly documented over and over and over again and again.

Their "RNG" has a circular, repeating pattern. It's *not* actual RNG. It never was and it will probably never be.
The same pattern is in every "RNG" based part of the game, not just the loot drops.

Strider_Roshin · September 2016

sluice wrote: »

ScooberSteve wrote: »

I got a 2hand sword sharpened on the 4th complete. Which is the best 2hander?

Congrats!

I think most will say the Sword because of the 5% extra damage it provides via the Two-Handed passives.
The one I would trade my left kidney for, is the Maul, thought.

And I think, unless you have a source of Major Fracture (Nightblade's Surprise Attack), that the Maul is the BiS.
Especially, since we see more and more people running in Heavy Armor.

But the truth is any Sharpened Maelstrom 2H is great and I would personally would really be happy whatever which one I get, if I do get one.. that is!

Next update, my armor penetration will be almost 16k with a 2H sword. You'll have to be attacking someone at the physical resistance cap just to make the maul on par with my greatsword ;-)

Did I mention that I'll have 33k+ Stamina, 21-22k health, around 2200 stam regen, almost 3700 WD, with 1k+ health and magicka regen?

failkiwib16_ESO · September 2016

SirAndy wrote: »

Junipus wrote: »

It's entirely RNG.

I just wish people would do some research before spouting that statement.

We have a solid 3 years of evidence that ZOS RNG is anything *but* actual RNG.
This has been clearly documented over and over and over again and again.

Their "RNG" has a circular, repeating pattern. It's *not* actual RNG. It never was and it will probably never be.
The same pattern is in every "RNG" based part of the game, not just the loot drops.

so true >.< so so true...

Btw. some people in one of the guilds I'm in farmed vMA for a while, they all got stamina weapons and suddently one week they all got sharpened flame staves, some from vMA and others from weekly.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · September 2016

Is Decisive in the VMA loot table? I didnt see any on your spreadsheet, and come to think of it, dont think I have ever seen a decisive VMA weapon.

Sidebar: We are actually are experimenting with tanks/heals running it for better warhorn uptime in VMOL. Might actually be useful, but if it's not there, I wont lose any sleep. Would change the math a bit though. Now if we can only get rid of Charged, Infused, and powered, we might actually get somewhere.

Minute_Waltz · September 2016

sluice wrote: »

Minute_Waltz wrote: »

FYI you still got 4 really good/useful weapons out of 21 runs.. thats pretty good actually. (The two bows, precise lightning and resto)

I have sharpened in every single weapon type but I don't have a precise resto yet...

I don't really consider the precise lightning useful (not BiS trait and can't weave).
I do, however consider that Defending Maul good. Not BiS, but good and viable in PvP.
I'm currently using it and I see a DPS lost of about 6-12% depending on target.

Yes, I was "lucky" in those last two run.
Stupid me, I made that infused bow gold...

At least, that Precise Resto is BiS for magplar healer in my opinion. And trust me, if I could, I would trade this in a heartbeat for any 2H sharpened you could spare.

Anyway, remove those two bows, and that would make 2 useful weapons out of 19.. not so great.

@Jaronking, best of luck buddy! I truly hope you get what you are seeking!

Actually lightning precise is currently BiS for aether/heavy attack build for dk/sorcs for trash pulls (and trash pulls only), you just drop your dots and hold heavy attack and enjoy the 100K+ dps

For bosses obviously switch to fire/light sharpen bar for proper dps lol

But yeah, make sure you don't decon that at least

FortheloveofKrist · September 2016

Daggerfall_Bones wrote: »

They should allow 9/9 crafters to retrait items. Add some rare material like a temper to allow for it.

You mean a rare temper you have to buy in the Crown Store?... BRILLIANT! We'll get right on it!

FriedEggSandwich · September 2016

SirAndy wrote: »

Junipus wrote: »

It's entirely RNG.

I just wish people would do some research before spouting that statement.

We have a solid 3 years of evidence that ZOS RNG is anything *but* actual RNG.
This has been clearly documented over and over and over again and again.

Their "RNG" has a circular, repeating pattern. It's *not* actual RNG. It never was and it will probably never be.
The same pattern is in every "RNG" based part of the game, not just the loot drops.

Idk, true randomness would have an equal chance of producing anything in any order. Apple originally implemented true randomness into iTunes shuffle feature, until people complained it wasn't "random" enough because some songs were repeating. So apple reduced the randomness to make it seem more "random" to our pattern loving minds. Yeah I watch vsauce.

Izaki · September 2016

Well you're very very unlucky I guess... I'm swimming in Sharp/Precise Daggers and Axes (2 of each in each trait + like 10 in useless traits), I also have a Sharp Battle-Axe and Greatsword (along with like 3 powered and charged ones), Sharp SnB (and a decisive one), a couple of Sharp Restos and Sharp bow. The only thing missing is the destruction staves.

Ryuuhime · September 2016

ScooberSteve wrote: »

I got a 2hand sword sharpened on the 4th complete. Which is the best 2hander?

I got a sharpened 2h Sword on my 4th run as well! But I don't use 2h weapons...

Guess that will change now.

VizigothAlaric · September 2016

1.4k Views and no official response just wow.

@ZOS_DaryaK @ZOS_GinaBruno

#VMATOKENSYSTEM

Duukar · September 2016

With the new 2 hander ult ignoring all resists Sharp may not be BiS for 2H anymore.... Don't decon those precise 2 handers!!

Also they have added sets with massive penetration and CPs. I think they are trying to diversify weapon traits selection.

Pretty sick way to do it!

I'll stick with my Defending Maul and Precise Battle axe tyvm!

Duuk

LegendaryArcher · September 2016

I gave vMA 49 more runs, reaching exactly 300 runs (200 before DB, 1 after DB, 99 after SotH) without a single Sharpened Inferno, Sharpened Maul, or Sharpened Bow. I did, however, get my very first Inferno Staff. Powered (higher healing output, yay).

I uninstalled ESO again and will not be coming back anytime soon. Going back to Black Desert. When weapons are made almost unobtainable or extremely rare, they should be made equally rare for everyone. Handing them out before DB and then making them unobtainable was a ridiculous decision on ZOS's part. I consider myself a hardcore gamer and BiS weapons should be obtainable to skilled, dedicated players. Once this is the case here, I might consider coming back.

Destyran · September 2016

Junipus wrote: »

It's entirely RNG.

Got a sharpened Inferno staff on my first run, a sharpened 2H maul on my second run and a powered dagger on my third run.

Have yet to go back there but am prepared to accept a slew of bad traits providing I get the weapon I'm after.

Beats vDSA where I'm up to 6 daggers in 7 runs, and only one of those could be considered a good trait.

If you're experienced enough to run the content a few times a day, or know it to do it under 1-2 hours then you really should accept that you're not always going to get the item you want otherwise it's not that much more than introducing CP531 accounts for sale.

Why would you have to sounds like you finished the game.

Junipus · September 2016

SirAndy wrote: »

Junipus wrote: »

It's entirely RNG.

I just wish people would do some research before spouting that statement.

We have a solid 3 years of evidence that ZOS RNG is anything *but* actual RNG.
This has been clearly documented over and over and over again and again.

Their "RNG" has a circular, repeating pattern. It's *not* actual RNG. It never was and it will probably never be.
The same pattern is in every "RNG" based part of the game, not just the loot drops.

If there was enough of a pattern to be discernable then people would be posting it online and able to predict what will drop and when. Right now the only certainty is what dungeon/trial bosses will drop what pieces but even then your chances of getting the right piece in the right trait are completely random.

Other "RNG" parts of the game are predictable, but they're not relevant to loot drops from chests.

There might be a pattern in the grand scheme of things over the course of 1-2 years, but if such a thing did exist then the timeframe is so large as it make it impractical.

sluice · September 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

ScooberSteve wrote: »

I got a 2hand sword sharpened on the 4th complete. Which is the best 2hander?

Congrats!

I think most will say the Sword because of the 5% extra damage it provides via the Two-Handed passives.
The one I would trade my left kidney for, is the Maul, thought.

And I think, unless you have a source of Major Fracture (Nightblade's Surprise Attack), that the Maul is the BiS.
Especially, since we see more and more people running in Heavy Armor.

But the truth is any Sharpened Maelstrom 2H is great and I would personally would really be happy whatever which one I get, if I do get one.. that is!

Next update, my armor penetration will be almost 16k with a 2H sword. You'll have to be attacking someone at the physical resistance cap just to make the maul on par with my greatsword ;-)

Did I mention that I'll have 33k+ Stamina, 21-22k health, around 2200 stam regen, almost 3700 WD, with 1k+ health and magicka regen?

16k Penetration means you will bypass 16k armor.

A Maul would still be more beneficial agains't players with more than 18-09k+ ressistance (Would need to do the math comparing the greatsword 5% damage and the maul 20% penetration of these targets)

But then again, we have that OP 2H ultimate that will be a living heal for tanks.

I'm currently rolling:
-1.8k recovery (+ 468 in combat from redguard passive)
-39k Max Health
-3.7k Weapon damage
-21.5k Health

But my health and magicka recovery is far from yours.
That 1k Health Recovery must make you very tanky in long sustain fights!

Once, I get my Sharpened Maelstrom 2H, I will work on fishing my Undaunted to push my stamina over 40k

@Minute_Waltz, @Duukar, Don't worry guys, I'm not deconstructing anything. We never know when we'll see a trait change.
I even still have all those useless shields. I will decons them soon. But everything else I'm keeping for now.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Is Decisive in the VMA loot table? I didnt see any on your spreadsheet, and come to think of it, dont think I have ever seen a decisive VMA weapon.

Sidebar: We are actually are experimenting with tanks/heals running it for better warhorn uptime in VMOL. Might actually be useful, but if it's not there, I wont lose any sleep. Would change the math a bit though. Now if we can only get rid of Charged, Infused, and powered, we might actually get somewhere.

I remember reading on the forums someone that was being sarcastic about his decisive maelstrom giving him a 0.3% DPS boost. Did he really get one? No clue. But until I see one myself, it will remain a myth! If it's not in the table it brings total drop possibilities to 84. Might sounds good on paper, but it isn't a big change.

Removing Charged is a must, as it's completely useless. Say they remove that trait, powered and infused.
Our drop possibility would be down to 48. Now that's a big impact on the probabilities.

Docmandu · September 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Is Decisive in the VMA loot table?

It is.. have gotten a couple of decisive pieces... decon trash.. although I even have bad luck with deconning, usually don't even get 1 rubedite ingot out of a gold vma piece.

sluice · September 2016

Docmandu wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Is Decisive in the VMA loot table?

It is.. have gotten a couple of decisive pieces... decon trash.. although I even have bad luck with deconning, usually don't even get 1 rubedite ingot out of a gold vma piece.

Thanks, will update my data to include Decisive : 0.
Have you received a Decisive post SoTH?

Docmandu · September 2016

sluice wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Is Decisive in the VMA loot table?

It is.. have gotten a couple of decisive pieces... decon trash.. although I even have bad luck with deconning, usually don't even get 1 rubedite ingot out of a gold vma piece.

Thanks, will update my data to include Decisive : 0.
Have you received a Decisive post SoTH?

My leaderboard reward mail from 9th august (so leaderboard week from 1 aug) contained a 2H Decisive Sword. SoTH was released end july.

sluice · September 2016

Docmandu wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Is Decisive in the VMA loot table?

It is.. have gotten a couple of decisive pieces... decon trash.. although I even have bad luck with deconning, usually don't even get 1 rubedite ingot out of a gold vma piece.

Thanks, will update my data to include Decisive : 0.
Have you received a Decisive post SoTH?

My leaderboard reward mail from 9th august (so leaderboard week from 1 aug) contained a 2H Decisive Sword. SoTH was released end july.

FYI, you had 1.04% chance of getting this exact drop. You lucky you!

Strider_Roshin · September 2016

sluice wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

ScooberSteve wrote: »

I got a 2hand sword sharpened on the 4th complete. Which is the best 2hander?

Congrats!

I think most will say the Sword because of the 5% extra damage it provides via the Two-Handed passives.
The one I would trade my left kidney for, is the Maul, thought.

And I think, unless you have a source of Major Fracture (Nightblade's Surprise Attack), that the Maul is the BiS.
Especially, since we see more and more people running in Heavy Armor.

But the truth is any Sharpened Maelstrom 2H is great and I would personally would really be happy whatever which one I get, if I do get one.. that is!

Next update, my armor penetration will be almost 16k with a 2H sword. You'll have to be attacking someone at the physical resistance cap just to make the maul on par with my greatsword ;-)

Did I mention that I'll have 33k+ Stamina, 21-22k health, around 2200 stam regen, almost 3700 WD, with 1k+ health and magicka regen?

16k Penetration means you will bypass 16k armor.

A Maul would still be more beneficial agains't players with more than 18-09k+ ressistance (Would need to do the math comparing the greatsword 5% damage and the maul 20% penetration of these targets)
.

In order for the maul to be equal to the 2H it would have to be able to penetrate 3,300 armor. Meaning after you penetrate 16k resistance your opponent will need to have at least 16,500 remaining. Meaning their original physical resistance will need to be around 32,500.

sluice · September 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

ScooberSteve wrote: »

I got a 2hand sword sharpened on the 4th complete. Which is the best 2hander?

Congrats!

I think most will say the Sword because of the 5% extra damage it provides via the Two-Handed passives.
The one I would trade my left kidney for, is the Maul, thought.

And I think, unless you have a source of Major Fracture (Nightblade's Surprise Attack), that the Maul is the BiS.
Especially, since we see more and more people running in Heavy Armor.

But the truth is any Sharpened Maelstrom 2H is great and I would personally would really be happy whatever which one I get, if I do get one.. that is!

Next update, my armor penetration will be almost 16k with a 2H sword. You'll have to be attacking someone at the physical resistance cap just to make the maul on par with my greatsword ;-)

Did I mention that I'll have 33k+ Stamina, 21-22k health, around 2200 stam regen, almost 3700 WD, with 1k+ health and magicka regen?

16k Penetration means you will bypass 16k armor.

A Maul would still be more beneficial agains't players with more than 18-09k+ ressistance (Would need to do the math comparing the greatsword 5% damage and the maul 20% penetration of these targets)
.

In order for the maul to be equal to the 2H it would have to be able to penetrate 3,300 armor. Meaning after you penetrate 16k resistance your opponent will need to have at least 16,500 remaining. Meaning their original physical resistance will need to be around 32,500.

True, if the calculation of resistance - penetration happens before the Maul 20% penetration...
But, if the 20% penetration from the Maul is calculated before the resistance - penetration calculation, it changes the data.

For instance, take someone with 25k resistance:
25k - 20% = 20,000

20,000 - 16,000 (penetration) = 4,000 resistance left.

If we take for account that the 5% extra damage from the greatsword is equal to 3,300 penetration (if the resistance is there).
Then the Maul is better in my scenario here. And would be better than a Greatsword in any case of someone having more than ~24 000k (providing you have a whooping 16k penetration to start with.)

But it still makes the greatsword the clear winner versus anything with lower resistance (most people, although we see more and more tanky people) or people with shield (since no resistance/penetration applies to shield)

That brings the question (totally unrelated to the topic, but still super intriguing) : Is the Maul 20% penetration calculated before or after the resistance - penetration calculation.

Plus to anyone seeking a Maelstrom 2H, if you have the chance to get your hand on any TH sharpened, use that.
I'll be a crazy duck, even if when I get mine, it's a Battleaxe.

But, if I could choose anything it would be a Maul. Not because of damage, although I think it would benefit me more on my stam sorc since I don't have major fracture from my main DPS ability, but because of the look!

Strider_Roshin · September 2016

sluice wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

ScooberSteve wrote: »

I got a 2hand sword sharpened on the 4th complete. Which is the best 2hander?

Congrats!

I think most will say the Sword because of the 5% extra damage it provides via the Two-Handed passives.
The one I would trade my left kidney for, is the Maul, thought.

And I think, unless you have a source of Major Fracture (Nightblade's Surprise Attack), that the Maul is the BiS.
Especially, since we see more and more people running in Heavy Armor.

But the truth is any Sharpened Maelstrom 2H is great and I would personally would really be happy whatever which one I get, if I do get one.. that is!

Next update, my armor penetration will be almost 16k with a 2H sword. You'll have to be attacking someone at the physical resistance cap just to make the maul on par with my greatsword ;-)

Did I mention that I'll have 33k+ Stamina, 21-22k health, around 2200 stam regen, almost 3700 WD, with 1k+ health and magicka regen?

16k Penetration means you will bypass 16k armor.

A Maul would still be more beneficial agains't players with more than 18-09k+ ressistance (Would need to do the math comparing the greatsword 5% damage and the maul 20% penetration of these targets)
.

In order for the maul to be equal to the 2H it would have to be able to penetrate 3,300 armor. Meaning after you penetrate 16k resistance your opponent will need to have at least 16,500 remaining. Meaning their original physical resistance will need to be around 32,500.

True, if the calculation of resistance - penetration happens before the Maul 20% penetration...
But, if the 20% penetration from the Maul is calculated before the resistance - penetration calculation, it changes the data.

For instance, take someone with 25k resistance:
25k - 20% = 20,000

20,000 - 16,000 (penetration) = 4,000 resistance left.

If we take for account that the 5% extra damage from the greatsword is equal to 3,300 penetration (if the resistance is there).
Then the Maul is better in my scenario here. And would be better than a Greatsword in any case of someone having more than ~24 000k (providing you have a whooping 16k penetration to start with.)

But it still makes the greatsword the clear winner versus anything with lower resistance (most people, although we see more and more tanky people) or people with shield (since no resistance/penetration applies to shield)

That brings the question (totally unrelated to the topic, but still super intriguing) : Is the Maul 20% penetration calculated before or after the resistance - penetration calculation.

Very true, however as you mentioned yourself; the 2H sword would be superior against anyone of lesser defenses, and the maul does nothing against damage shields.

olsborg · September 2016

sluice wrote: »

I have been enjoying VMA lately...
(Enjoy : LOL)

This is a simple observation on my traits drop.

Here is my current drop history :
Total drops : 21
Mace & Shield - Powered

Lightning Staff - Nirnhoned

Maul - Defending

Lightning Staff - Precise

Sword & Shield - Charged

Maul - Powered

Sword & Shield - Infused

BattleAxe - Nirnhoned

Restoration Staff - Precise

Greatsword - Infused

Mace & Shield - Defending

Maul - Charged

Dagger - Charged

Ice staff - Nirnhoned

Dagger - Defending

Greatsword - Precise

Sword & Shield - Powered

Sword & Shield - Charged

Sword & Shield - Nirnhoned

Bow - Infused

Bow - Precise

Trait drop count (21):

Charged : 4

Precise : 4

Nirnhoned : 4

Defending : 3

Powered : 3

Infused : 3

Decisive : 0

Sharpened : 0

TL;DR
I haven’t received any sharpened weapon in 21 Maelstrom Drop. (Not even one of those 7x useless 1H & Shield combo)

I have received 7x 1H & Shield combo. Including 3x Sword & Shield in a row.

The odds of getting the same weapon drop (any trait), 3 times in a row is 1 out of 1728. Call me lucky!

Took me my 20th run to see my first bow. I then got 2 in a row.

I seem to be getting the same weapon drops close by : 2x lightning staff in 3 consecutive runs. 3x shield in 3 consecutive runs, 2x shield in 3x consecutive runs. 2x daggers in 3 consecutive runs.

I made a thread discussing the current odds in vMA, here. Hint: They are NOT good.

#VMATOKENSYSTEM

This is exactly why I dont run maelstrom. Im not a huge fan of pve to begin with, but in theory I could be facing an endless grind to get sharpened battleaxe...so wont do it, it would kill my morale.

sluice · September 2016

@Strider_Roshin, yup and especially for a nightblade, there's no doubt that the greatsword is BIS. But in my case, a Stam sorc, I don't have any source of Armor penetration, so the whole Maul VS Greatsword VS Battle Axe debate has more meaning.

The cool thing about a nightblade is you mainly want that sharpened 2H for that weapon damage increase, so you can go with the Master sword like you did, unless you really want that small bleed damage from merciless resolve. (I think the Empower from Ambush is stronger, overall, so Master is just as good.)

By the way, did you get your Master bow yet? Or that's suppose to happen this Sunday!

@olsborg, yeah it does kill your moral, especially when you get 3 swords & shields in a row, like I did.
Right after those 3 useless drops, I got 2 bows back to back, including a Precise one. That's a perfect example of how RNG is unpredictable.